I would be most grateful if someone knowledgeble could inform on the following.

When people refer to a string spacing measurement - is that the measurement of the void between the strings or the distance from the centre of one string to the next?

I am on the verge of taking my bass to a luthier and would like to be clear on the detail which I have read in this very informing article from (All Hail) Bob's website.
http://www.urbbob.com/monroney.html

Many thanks.

Center to center.

I thought we might be discussing the dangers of too much of the Tantric thing...

Hi

I'm a newbie to this forum. I have a 5 string which I have just done a few things to to get playable - solid carved chinese bass 4/4 size (44" scale). The body is lovely, but the neck and fingerborad required a bit of work. I guess you get what you pay for.

I play orcehstral and was wondering if anyone knew if there was a "standard" string spacing (at the bridge) for a 5 string? I feel that moving my strings a little further apart will help with bowing by providing more curve, and therefore clearnace. With 5 of them they are currently around 7/8" apart, but I could stretch that a little without losing them of the edge of the fingerboard!

As background to this bass I have done most of the usual setup - nut adjustment, fingerboard dressing, bridge (action) modification and (drilled) bridge adjusters, "Clef Hi Tec tailgut" to replace wire. I also sanded and reworked the neck as it wasn't the best finish. It is settling in nicely but I feel a little more clearance between strings for arco would be helpful. Pizz is just lovely, and the low C is something that your guts appreciate more than your ears...

Any info welcomed. Cheers

7/8" is pretty tight MR. BOND.
'Standard' spacing is something like 26 - 27mm. Some arco players need a little more separation ( ~28mm)and some pizz only players squeeze it down to ~25mm.

Also, my guy goes for 3/8" string spacing at the nut (center to center) . I was amazed at the difference from the stock spacing up there. It made my life easier. It often means a new nut. This is for pizz. I have no idea what arco players like.

sed007 the answer is yes.
Further apart gives better clearance. More curvature on the bridge the better, but it must be similar to the fingerboard curvature.

Thanks guys - twas what I was thinkng. With the adjustable bridge I can afford to shave off a few mm and re-space the strings further apart. I have them about as far as they can go at the nut but that was good suggestion too...

I am happy with the action - so have the curvature ok (matches the fingerboard except for slight lift towards the bigger strings) but do get the odd double stop esp at the lower strings as they need more pressure to drive with the bow. I think a large part of it is learning to play the 5 string after years with a four... you know, go for the C (A string) and get the G (E string). Got to accept finer tolerances between strings with the extra one on there. Getting there though!

Cheers! Many thanks.

I am happy with the action - so have the curvature ok (matches the fingerboard except for slight lift towards the bigger strings) but do get the odd double stop esp at the lower strings as they need more pressure to drive with the bow. I think a large part of it is learning to play the 5 string after years with a four... you know, go for the C (A string) and get the G (E string). Got to accept finer tolerances between strings with the extra one on there. Getting there though!

Cheers! Many thanks.

I just spoke with a 5 string player with the Lyric Opera of Chicago. He described the 5 stringers in German orchestras as having relatively flatter fingerboards. The bassists use less bow pressure and a faster bow arm to get the volume and accuracy they need with this setup.

When people refer to a string spacing measurement - is that the measurement of the void between the strings or the distance from the centre of one string to the next?
My walnut bass made made in NY by AES; my Jacquet was restored in LA by a respected luthier. On both basses, the distance between the strings is 25mm; i.e., the center to center distance is not the same. Makes sense to me for consistent arco string crossings.

the center to center distance is not the same. Makes sense to me for consistent arco string crossings.

Don, why does this make sense to you? I'm not an experienced arco player but I would have thought that since the bow hair touches the top centre of each string, equal spacing centre to centre would achieve consistent arco crossings?

I've never discussed it with luthiers, and I don't claim absolute knowledge. I do know that I like having the same distance between strings.

My walnut bass made made in NY by AES; my Jacquet was restored in LA by a respected luthier. On both basses, the distance between the strings is 25mm; i.e., the center to center distance is not the same. Makes sense to me for consistent arco string crossings.
Don, sorry to do this to you old friend, but methinks your measuring chops may be a bit atrophied. I always set string distances center-to-center. Generally 27mm, occasionally 26 or 28.

I measured both basses weeks ago and again today when I saw this thread. To be continued...

He he. Didn't mean to start sparks flying! I'll see what I can get my strings to (dist apart) and report back.

Great piece of advice regarding faster bow with less pressure on the 5 string bass to get same volume. Orchestra tonight so will concentrate on that and see how it goes.

All the best.

Right-o

Well, I have spaced the strings at the bridge 25mm on my 5 string, and I must say that the first playing session was sooo much better (clearance, accuracy, tone). I feel I can bow it almost like I did with the 4 string. Wonderful.

Thanks guys for the advice.

I have always hated center to center spacing, especially having played 5 string basses for most of my career. Sure it looks nice, but the higher strings that don't need extra spacing are further apart than the lower ones where you actually do need it.

I have played countless 5 string basses with equal spacing from center to center where the 5th string and 4th would hit each other in orchestral situations.

There is also the issue of the occasional double stop in our solo literature. With wide spacing in the higher strings you are not helping the situation.

my 2 cents

Good point.

I have not filed down my bridge yet, as am still trying the wider spacing. It has a plethora of grooves in it now (ten) so I may try the closer spacing on the higher register strings for a couple of weeks also. Once I find my happy place, I'll remove the strings, file down the bridge and keep the spacing that works best for me. Hooray for bridge adjusters. Still don't want to do it more than once.

I guess at this level it is a feel thing / personal preference and the more ideas I can try at this plastic stage is good.

Cheers again.

Ah, Dr Rod, forgot to ask - would you be so kind as to measure your 5-string spacing and let me know, if it is not too much trouble??

O for orsome

Ah, Dr Rod, forgot to ask - would you be so kind as to measure your 5-string spacing and let me know, if it is not too much trouble??

O for orsome

....it's not too much trouble, but I don't have access to the bass at this point. In about 4 weeks, I am afraid.

Sorry about that.

No worries - it is the idea that counts! I'll have a tootle with different spacings. I don't profess to have the skill to be playing solo pieces that ask double stops etc, but no harm in having the bass set up so that it is possible.

No worries - it is the idea that counts! I'll have a tootle with different spacings. I don't profess to have the skill to be playing solo pieces that ask double stops etc, but no harm in having the bass set up so that it is possible.

Hey buddy,

26 mm from G to D, and 36 mm from E to B

so roughly 3mm increments regardless of what you start with between G to D

Awesome - thanks for that. You must have a wider fingerboard than me. I can get about 25mm for each before running out of room. Still, a LOT better than the roughly 22mm between strings it came shipped with... that was hard work!
Cheers

Unequal sounds like a great idea... give the space to the strings that need it, and make your job easier on the high side.

Unequal sounds like a great idea... give the space to the strings that need it, and make your job easier on the high side.

I still don't get this logic. The bow only touches the top of the strings. So how does unequal string spacing help? It's not as if they're going to knock into each other ...

It's not as if they're going to knock into each other ...

That is precisely what happens on many 5 string basses in the lower strings, especially between B and E. This may not happen in practicing situations where all is controlled. But in loud orchestral situations it is quite a nuisance.

I do have to admit that to start with 26 mm is a bit much, I was a bit surprised myself. It defeats the purpose as far as double stop playing is concerned. I doubt that there would be mutual knocking with 26mm on equal spacing.

OK ... a fiver yes the strings are gonna be closer ... but I'm still astonished that the strings hit each other before they hit the fingerboard!

OK ... a fiver yes the strings are gonna be closer ... but I'm still astonished that the strings hit each other before they hit the fingerboard!

in these cases usually both strings are vibrating at the same time, sympathetically or otherwise

I like wide spacing.after reading this thread I realize my spacing is a bit wider than most basses. I guess I just like lots of room to dig in.

I like wide spacing.after reading this thread I realize my spacing is a bit wider than most basses. I guess I just like lots of room to dig in.

for digging in, the curve of your bridge has more of an impact, you can have very wide spacing but if your bridge is flat-ish you will have problems

for digging in, the curve of your bridge has more of an impact, you can have very wide spacing but if your bridge is flat-ish you will have problems

well, I don't know about that, because I've never had a flat-ish bridge, but lately I've been surprised how most basses have a sort of narrow string spacing. well, for my taste anyway. I don't have particularly long fingers. I think I didn't know any better and just got used to it.

I've never had a flat-ish bridge

flat-ish bridges are another common 5 string disease

I still don't get this logic. The bow only touches the top of the strings. So how does unequal string spacing help? It's not as if they're going to knock into each other ...

Low strings vibrate in a wider arc, and in the orchestra need a lot of power put in to them, whereas you never have to use so much weight or bow speed up high. So you've got to think about the amount of deflection in the bow hair, and the bridge has to give enough room for that on the A and E of a 5-string; the B is on the outside and will take care of itself.

the B is on the outside and will take care of itself.

perhaps on your particular bass

For bow clearance, I mean... it's still going to need room to vibrate in. A LOT of room.

Anyway, what do I know, I don't own a 5 and have only played one briefly. It was fun though.

For bow clearance, I mean... it's still going to need room to vibrate in. A LOT of room.



sorry pal, I just hadn't understood what you had meant


you are absolutely right about what you stated

1" apart maximum, but i play pizz. i think the closer the strings are to the center of the bridge, the more pressure is pushed straight down. the bridge is supposed to transfer force straight down, but if you can start in the middle, less force is exerted outward.

bluegrass player disclaimer :)

Um, no, that's not what the bridge does... instead, it rocks around the left foot of the bridge (which can hardly move as it is almost on top of the sound post). So, the distance across the top of the bridge from the left side foot is what matters, and by spreading the strings wider you are actually increasing that. However, that's a small effect, and what matters most is the relation between strings, fingerboard, bow, and the player's hands.

Left foot of the bridge?

The one on the soundpost side. Left as the player looks at it.

what effect does string spacing have on how loud the bass sounds?

Chuck Traeger say in his book that the closer the strings are the more volume the bass will have.

does anybody have any experience with that?

what effect does string spacing have on how loud the bass sounds?

Chuck Traeger say in his book that the closer the strings are the more volume the bass will have.

does anybody have any experience with that?

I have never noticed such a result from changing the spacing. Maybe others have.

what effect does string spacing have on how loud the bass sounds?

Chuck Traeger say in his book that the closer the strings are the more volume the bass will have.

does anybody have any experience with that?

I heard something along those lines, but I am thinking you can get them 1 or 2 mm closer or anywhere around that neighborhood, and how much louder can your bass really be?
I've had the chance to play various basses and compare them at a few different shops, after hours at the NAMM show few years back, At the symphony, with students and my teachers as well. My personal impression is that some basses are definitely quiet, but between a bass that has a good sound and it's kind of average to an awesome loud bass there is not much difference, IMHO.
getting the strings closer to me feels uncomfortable, and I don't think I can play as well. So to compromise with that how much more volume am I really getting out of the deal?

On a slightly tangential tack... I have tuned the low string on my 5 string to a C. For tuning a B would be more consistent with the intervals between the other strings. Is there any great preference in the educated 5 string world for C or B tuning??

On a slightly tangential tack... I have tuned the low string on my 5 string to a C. For tuning a B would be more consistent with the intervals between the other strings. Is there any great preference in the educated 5 string world for C or B tuning??

It's really nice to have the B, and your fingering patterns remain the same (octaves, fifths etc)

Cool, I'll give it a try. If it is a bit too "flappy" I might have to go back to C, but being 4/4 scale bass should be ok.

"How low can you go!"

Cool, I'll give it a try. If it is a bit too "flappy" I might have to go back to C, but being 4/4 scale bass should be ok.

"How low can you go!"

the flabbyness has more to do with the brand and type of string, thin flexible strings will be unsatisfactory for me too. I use spirocore stark, you can order it at juststrings.com

And... just as I was about to go and sniff around the "strings" posts you give me a head start. Mine are still the factory ones (presumably cheap, and no idea what brand) I'll have a read about the spiro starks. Cheers.

I'll have a read about the spiro starks. Cheers.

there might be other options too

what effect does string spacing have on how loud the bass sounds?

Chuck Traeger say in his book that the closer the strings are the more volume the bass will have.

does anybody have any experience with that?

i moved my strings in because of this, not sure i noticed the volume difference; but it was easier to play, and i got less buzz on the E (probably from my attack). moved the A and E in (G and D were ok). A moved in ~3mm, and E moved in ~5mm.