I've been playing for 6 months now but I have been reading tabs (D'OH!)

I am attempting ear training. I started with the Ramones first album because you could hear the bass more than anything else and I got the whole album in one 2 hour sitting.

I then decided to give some Iron Maden tunes a shot.

I couldnt get any! I mean I could find some pitches but I am having a great deal of problems with finding the correct intervals.

I think I listened to Prowler about 100 times only trying to remember the bassline but I cant get it!

Can I get some advice on my problem? I am actually very frustrated.

Just do it in small steps. Rather than attempt the riff all in one go, just get the first, say, two beats. And then the next two, so you have one bar down (assuming we're in 4/4). And keep going, remembering to link each new section with a previous section.

Some songs are just going to be plain hard, or even nigh impossible to work out by ear, unless you're really good. I've also found humming the part I'm figuring out over and over again helps a lot. If you've got it on mp3 you can even get programs (some freeware ones to download) that can slow down the song so it's easier to hear the part you're working on - something I wish I had back in the day!

You ear takes time to develop, just like your bass playing skills take time to learn and hone. Some people are naturally gifted (like those with perfect pitch) but if you're like most of the rest of us, it just takes time to develop the ability.

Just start easy, dude. Starting with a Ramones record was a good move. Next try something that's a little more complex, but not a lot more, and preferably some music that you've listened to a ton and know really well. Learn "Iron Man" and "Smoke on the Water", just for practice and to build your confidence. You're doing the right things, just be patient and realize copping those Steve Harris lines will take some time.

I'm slowly starting to build my ear and I find that if I humm the line and really get it stuck in my head then turn off the cd and try to play it, I'll come very close more often than not. If I try to figure it out note for note Ie: "the first note is A and the second is C no B no D...hurm..." I get all the sounds muddled in my head and wind up screwing up the line.

So to sum that up +1 to singing/humming the line before you try to play it.

Well, first it helps to have your ear and hands working together. That's why scale/mode "practicing" is often pointless. If you're not singing the notes you're playing it's just a physical exercise and does nothing for helping you play music. But if you're singing the notes then your hand and ear are learning so that when you hear two notes, your hand has a good idea of where to go to find them in relationship to each other. Sing those Ramones lines you've learned as you play them.

Then to cop specific lines from recordings:

A. Start slow and in smal steps.

B. Sing the line to yourself to fix the sound in your head.

C. Find ONE note. Then listen to the next note. There are only three choices for that next note; either it's the same as the first one, it's higher, or it's lower. So figure out which direction you need to go, and try a note. If the note you try is right, then play the two notes in time. If the note you tried for the second note isn't right, then figure out what's wrong- now there're only two choices. The note you attempted is either too high or too low. Figure that out and you've narrowed down your options.

Repeat as needed.

Well, first it helps to have your ear and hands working together. That's why scale/mode "practicing" is often pointless. If you're not singing the notes you're playing it's just a physical exercise and does nothing for helping you play music. But if you're singing the notes then your hand and ear are learning so that when you hear two notes, your hand has a good idea of where to go to find them in relationship to each other. Sing those Ramones lines you've learned as you play them.



Singing is a great idea, but I don't know that NOT singing them is tantamount to "just moving your fingers".

I would say, however, that failing to pay attention to what the notes sound like when you practice scales and modes IS tantamount to just moving your fingers.

There's no excuse for not listening to the notes you're playing, and that means much more than just plugging into an amp.

Learning your scales/modes, AND learning what they SOUND LIKE (singing them as you go is a very good way to do this), will greatly improve your ability to recognize what you hear in bass lines, and make it easier to put it on your bass.

This thread ought to give you some ideas of songs to hunt down and learn for yourself:

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=439715

While Steve Harris' lines are challenge to play from a physical perspective, I've always found them to be quite uncomplicated - just demanding. He's got the finger strength and speed of superman! Now it's been years ... even decades (gulp) since I've tackled a Maiden tune, but one thing I remember was how once you learned one, you pretty much learned most, if not all.

Again - I am not bashing Steve Harris because even though I did learn many Maiden tunes back in the late 80's and early 90's I could never really play them like Steve Harris. I could figure out the parts and play them adequately, but I knew better than anyone that I was still falling just sort of nailing his technique.

BUT (back OT) - unless things have changed a whole lot, I'd say don't over think it too much. Listen closely and learn to 'say/sing' the lines without your bass. Then pick up your bass (without the song playing) and slowly sing the line to and find the pitches.

If you listen and are able to sing the pitches, you'll be able to play them soon enough. If you cannot sing the pitches or the parts (rhythmically), then the part is NOT in your head and you're not ready to play it.

If you can say it, you can play it.


[EDIT: Just saw JTE's post]... in other words, +1 to JTE's post.

Allow me to clarify, upon reflection:

Ain't NOTHIN' wrong with singing your bass lines. As a matter of fact, tZer's final statement rings with an unassailable truth IMHO.

I do, however, run into students who for the life of them can't find a pitch in a game of underhand slowpitch wiffleball. It becomes distracting for them to try to sing what they're playing, and don't progress much because of it. So I must make allowances for those who can't do the singing thing.

Oftentimes, however, they're just too embarrassed to sing in front of anyone. It's an interesting task trying to figure out if this is the case. ;)

There was a teacher at MI in the late 80's named Les Wise who could solo over anything, and he sang along for the phrasing. But what he sang had NOTHING to do with the pitches coming out of the guitar. The rhythm was right; the pitches were useless. They went up and down as the phrase did, but he was often 1/2 OCTAVE out of tune. So for him, singing along was a way to get a more natural phrasing to his improvisational lines. Wild.

From my end, the singing suggestion has more to do with singing the part independent of playing it - meaning you 'learn' the part in your head and the best and easiest way to prove you know it is by singing it. If you can accurately reproduce your part by singing it, you "know" it and it's just a matter of acquainting your fingers with the proper positions, etc.

So I am not talking about the George Benson style of simultaneously singing the part you're playing - I'm talking about essentially 'phonetically' learning the part so that you can 'verbalize' it.

Now it doesn't solve the problem of not being able to hear the pitch - so the 'say it to play it' thing falls short if you cannot find the pitch.

So what I do with my one student is play a game called "blind find the note".

I play a note and he, with his eyes closed, finds it on his instrument.

Some of the rules I'll lay down include:
1) find this note using only the "A" string
2) find this note with your fretting hand in position to play a scale from the 5th fret - the implication being the note I select falls between "A" (5th fret on the "E" string") and "D" (7th fret on the "G" string)

I'll also play a game called "Note Hi-Lo" where I have him play any note then I play a note after and have him identify simply if it's higher or lower.

Another thing to do is to sit with your instrument, play pitches and sing them. Play an "A" and move your voice around until you match the "A".

It helps to have a teacher or another person who has a good ear helping you.

high or low, like the gambling game. i do that with my schools music teacher on the piano, then i try to match it on my bass. helps a lot.

Well, MY singing was once described as "a duet with Yoko Ono and Linda McCartney"...:spit:

The point is not that you need to be singing exactly in tune, but it fixes the pitch in your head and FORCES you to listen to what you're playing.

jte

...and FORCES you to listen to what you're playing.



Anything that does this is a good thing. :)

You may want to check out the following links:
http://www.good-ear.com/
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v300/IcerC/OnlineScreen.swf

Thanks for all the advice!

I actually tried smoke on the water but I also cannot get it!

I cant hear the bass very much during the verse. I feel like such a tool...

The bass in "Smoke on the Water" is very gritty and treble-y sounding. That, coupled with John Lord's burning, overdriven, growly organ sound make for a thick bed of "oomph" underneath that tune. It may not sound like what you're listening for if you're trying to hear a more traditional bass sound. You may be hearing it, but thinking it's just a big, fat, fuzzy guitar...

Listen for the bass drum and try to see if you can hear the low instrument that seems to be landing most consistently with it. That might help a little...

You may want to try some Zeppelin - "How Many More Time" starts off with the bass all nice and clear - that might help you key in on it so when the rest of the band is mucking up the zone, you'll know what to listen for.

As mentioned in a previous post you might look into using computer software that's out there to help isolate the bass in songs. One I recommend is called Transcribe! although it costs $50. You can download and use it for free for 30 days to see if you like it. The software allows you to slow down the song and isolate the bass so you can hear it better. Transcribe! does not eliminate the bass sound of the drummer which can make things a bit iffy on some songs but I've found it very useful for ear training and transcribing bass lines. Of course it can also be used for isolating other instruments and vocals as well.

As per usual with these ear threads I'll recommend you try some "cake"...real simple most of the time and really groovy and the bass is crystal clear and repetitive so you don't have to rewind the song 7,000 times.

As per usual with these ear threads I'll recommend you try some "cake"...real simple most of the time and really groovy and the bass is crystal clear and repetitive so you don't have to rewind the song 7,000 times.

And DAMN fun to play. +1.

I would check the sticky threads at the top of GI here, I know that some great discussions about ear training have taken place in past years, and I'm not able to reproduce those thoughts at length right now, so simply to add to the current great advice, I would say:

It doesn't hurt to stretch out of your musical comfort zone in some instances. I'm thinking of this example where some of the songs sound like the bass is less prominent in the music and there is a lot of distortion. Regardless of the situation, I generally advise to start with something like Blues. I really believe that the Blues are a wonderful way to start ear training. There are a couple of reasons: 1) it has a fairly standard harmonic structure. The songs are generally I-IV-V. It helps to know the harmonic structure a lot of the time. Hey, you might think that the best "ear players" out there just can grab a note out of thin air, but it's more complicated than that generally. Often, a subtle dialectic is occuring between their trained ear and their internalized knowledge of harmonic structure, chord changes, resolution, etc. 2) the bass is prominent in Blues. 3) Often you get ostinato figures. If you miss the bus the first time around, it always comes back.

Now I'll contradict myself a little bit. Because of the bit before about ear playing as being partially about musical knowledge as well, you certainly do want to spend time in your genre of choice, as you need to learn about what typical harmonic choices are made. So, start with blues, play some blues, and learn the blues well. (So much music is based on these chord sequences anyway). But don't neglect the music you love. Just recognize that you may have a wider harmonic pallette, (although not always, or even most of the time), and that the timbre of all instruments and the mix will be very different.

I've been a jazz, R&B, and Latin guy my entire life. I simply haven't listened to a lot of rock music. Not kidding, I could probably name 10 Beatles songs, 2 Zeppelin tunes, and I can't name a single tune by the Who, etc. So, when I was asked to sub for a friend several years back and the playlist was mostly Hendrix, I was really surprised and how much of a challenge it was to get through Hendrix's distortion and screaching. It was far more challenging. But then, I also learned that often the bass is just copying the guitar line, and that was a trick I could use to facilitate learning. Although Hendrix is simply not my type of music and I don't listen to him casually, ever, I developed an appreciate for his style and I stretched my ear.

Also, props for even asking this question at this point in your playing life. Tabs, (and I know that may disagree with this), hamper ear training. The more you can move away from those, (and sometimes absolutely forcing yourself to is necessary), the better. I am a standing member of Club Tabevil.