I was under the impression the key applies to everyone but is there any reason trumpet is different?

We are corresponding with a trumpet player via our myspace page and he has, to my knowledge, all the keys to our recordings wrong..What I mean, is, that he sent us a list of our recordings and attached the key he thought it was in next to it. I just want to verify there isnt some magic rule for trumpet that lets them deviate outside the key before I correct him and look a-fool.

For example listen to "Energy Turtle" radio edit

Its in B. Would C#m major sound good if only the trumpet followed that over the B? I admit im NOT the best with theory..

Most Trumpets are B♭ Trumpets and if they play a C, they are actually playing a concert B♭.

Well, trumpet is a Bb instrument. When a trumpet player plays a C, the sound that comes out sounds like Bb. They'll have to transpose your music to play in in the correct key.

So a B flat would then first position of the A string, when all of the riffs in that song begin on 2nd position A string. Straight B note. Would that work?

I was under the impression the key applies to everyone but is there any reason trumpet is different?


Trumpets are a transposing instrument keyed in Bb relative to the concert pitch, so when they play a written C (in trumpet music) they're playing a concert Bb. That's a whole step difference.
Its in B. Would C#m major sound good if only the trumpet followed that over the B? I admit im the best with theory..

what's a C#m major?

If you're playing a B they should be playing a C#. The minor and major stay the same.

Bass is a C instrument. The Bb you play on a bass will be the same as a Bb played in concert key or any C instrument. The trumpet player will have to transpose everything up a whole step.

ah never mind he's saying c sharp. so thatd make it a straight B. I understand now, I do appreciate your swift responses and shared knowledge

So a B flat would then first position of the A string, when all of the riffs in that song begin on 2nd position A string. Straight B note. Would that work?

Umm, what?

If you are in B major, they're in C# major. If you're in B minor, they're in C# minor (not a particularly comfortable key on trumpet)

ah never mind he's saying c sharp. so thatd make it a straight B. I understand now, I do appreciate your swift responses and shared knowledge

No problem. That's what makes TB so good!

Umm, what?

If you are in B major, they're in C# major. If you're in B minor, they're in C# minor (not a particularly comfortable key on trumpet)


Sorry my lingo is sometimes hard to understand and I just realized I said a few things wrong. I get the concept of trumpet relative to the rest of the band.

Though I must ask, why is c# minor difficult for that instrument? I ask because after re reading his email, he plans on playing in that for the song

Though I must ask, why is c# minor difficult for that instrument? I ask because after re reading his email, he plans on playing in that for the song

Only because it's got 4 sharps in it. On a string instrument you can follow a pattern and run of a C# minor with no more trouble than a G scale, but on a trumpet it's a little trickier (speaking as a trumpet player) He sounds like he knows what he's doing though, so no worries.

Glorious, I await his take on our music. Speaking as a player yourself, is there anything I can do to ease his transition into our band as a bassist?

Besides learning more theory. I understand adding another instrument, especially one that will open us up to more styles, puts more pressure on me as a bassist. Both in the fact that I'll need to be able to write thick coherent bass lines to pretty much nothing and let him follow me (my drummer dosnt like to play beats when I write, he'll give me the run around when i confront him about it...still havnt quite figured it out yet, but call me crazy I like a beat when I write) but also be able to lead the band in general. Im somewhat rambling now...

Not all instruments are C instruments, trumpet is Bb and alto sax Eb are two examples and you have to transpose for them. Actually voice and bass are both transposed instrument but transposed an octave.

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Trumpets come in a host of keys, if you want to play in C ask him if he can buy or have access to a C trumpet. Transposing is not normaly a problem for a trumpet player.

Trumpets come in a host of keys, if you want to play in C ask him if he can buy or have access to a C trumpet. Transposing is not normaly a problem for a trumpet player.

While I wouldn't expect him to have a host of differently keyed trumpets (he may I have no idea) Fergie is right that transposition shouldn't be a problem for him (and indeed it sounds that it is not). Trumpets in different keys (C for example) have the convenience of not transposing, but they also have a different timbre and character. There's a reason Bb has been the most popular key for trumpets in many instances. They sound good, and they sit in the overall picture differently than a C trumpet would.

If he's transposing there's no problem. I transpose everything I play because the guitarists in my band tune down half a step and then move capos all up and down their fret boards. I just recognize this as something I have to do.

First, C trumpets sound awful- thin. All you have to remember for transposing is this:

For Bb instruments- trumpet, tenor sax, clarinet- tell them the note that is two frets above the one you are playing. D=E

For Eb instruments, alto sax, tell them the note that is 3 frets down from the one you are playing. D=B

For soprano sax tell them the one that is 4 frets down since most sop. sax players play way sharp.. :-) Better yet, tell them to play flat...

For soprano sax tell them the one that is 4 frets down since most sop. sax players play way sharp.. :-) Better yet, tell them to play flat...

better yet, ask them to stop playing altogether. :hiding:

Trumpets come in a host of keys, if you want to play in C ask him if he can buy or have access to a C trumpet. Transposing is not normaly a problem for a trumpet player.

The first time you play with a C trumpet in an ensemble is not fun. They're really not a nice sound, not to mention the fact that nobody has them, and nobody likes to play them.

The first time you play with a C trumpet in an ensemble is not fun. They're really not a nice sound, not to mention the fact that nobody has them, and nobody likes to play them.

Trumpet players pick the key of the trumpet (Bb, C, D, Eb, or piccolo) for the sound and for the style of music. C trumpets are wonderful instruments, they cut through a musical texture very well and for the reason are suited for orchestral playing (most trumpet players in professional symphony orchestras will use a C trumpet over Bb unless there is a specific reason). Bb trumpets have a warmer, darker sound and are a bit easier to play if the goal is melodic playing and fitting into a musical texture.

Trumpet players pick the key of the trumpet (Bb, C, D, Eb, or piccolo) for the sound and for the style of music. C trumpets are wonderful instruments, they cut through a musical texture very well and for the reason are suited for orchestral playing (most trumpet players in professional symphony orchestras will use a C trumpet over Bb unless there is a specific reason). Bb trumpets have a warmer, darker sound and are a bit easier to play if the goal is melodic playing and fitting into a musical texture.

Agreed. They do what they do well.

(most trumpet players in professional symphony orchestras will use a C trumpet over Bb unless there is a specific reason)

I think I'm right in thinking that this is the case in American orchestras, but the Bb is favoured in European orchestras.

I think I'm right in thinking that this is the case in American orchestras, but the Bb is favoured in European orchestras.

Maybe i cannot comment on that. But when i said trumpets come in different keys i would not expect a player to buy all trumpets. Trumpet players ( and i was one) when i was studing in the 70s had two, Bb and Eb as there standard instruments, and transposed in there heads whatever they read as positions. The result, as has been stated in earlier reply is a different sound and feel, timbre if you will. The idea that you play the fourth postion on the Bb, it is the same as 1st position on and Eb but they will feel different even though they play the same notes. Its like the same thing harmonica players do. Its been a long time so could someone confirm or deny this please.

I play clarinet as well as bass (and a few other instruments). When I was playing in orchestras, I played on a Bb as well as an A clarinet. The A clarinet was noticably more difficult to play and had a darker tone than the Bb.

The Bb is generally used in flat keys and the A in sharp keys.

Historically, you also got C clarinets. It used to be that you couldn't travel too far from the instruments home key before they got impossible to play. Now construction of the instruments has improved such that you can play fairly comfortably in a range of keys, making the horribly shrill sounding C clarinet pretty much obsolete.

As to what is used in professional orchestras - I am pretty sure this depends on the repertoire being played.

So I go to see the top London orchestras quite frequently and have seen international orchestras at the Proms - last time I saw Berlin and Chicago for example.

It's clear that in late romantic and 20th C, composers ask for specific instruments and groups of instruments.

So Mahler's Symphonies have a distinct sound, based on the instrumentation - like the 3rd has a prominent Tenor Horn part and the 7th has guitar and mandolin etc.

Mahler's 2nd symphony specifies the brass as follows :

10 Horns in F, four (7-10) used offstage
8-10 Trumpets in F and C, four to six used offstage
4 Trombones
Tuba

There are also many symphonic trumpet solos for very high-pitched parts and particular mutes etc. etc.

The top professional Orchestras I see, are clearly using a wide-range of trumpets and other brass instruments and that's without mentioning "period performances" !! ;)

As to what is used in professional orchestras - I am pretty sure this depends on the repertoire being played.

So I go to see the top London orchestras quite frequently and have seen international orchestras at the Proms - last time I saw Berlin and Chicago for example.

It's clear that in late romantic and 20th C, composers ask for specific instruments and groups of instruments.

So Mahler's Symphonies have a distinct sound, based on the instrumentation - like the 3rd has a prominent Tenor Horn part and the 7th has guitar and mandolin etc.

Mahler's 2nd symphony specifies the brass as follows :

10 Horns in F, four (7-10) used offstage
8-10 Trumpets in F and C, four to six used offstage
4 Trombones
Tuba

There are also many symphonic trumpet solos for very high-pitched parts and particular mutes etc. etc.

The top professional Orchestras I see, are clearly using a wide-range of trumpets and other brass instruments and that's without mentioning "period performances" !! ;)

Well said. Perhaps beyond the range of instrumentation to be expected by our OP, but helpful indeed.

I play clarinet as well as bass (and a few other instruments). When I was playing in orchestras, I played on a Bb as well as an A clarinet. The A clarinet was noticably more difficult to play and had a darker tone than the Bb.

The Bb is generally used in flat keys and the A in sharp keys.

Historically, you also got C clarinets. It used to be that you couldn't travel too far from the instruments home key before they got impossible to play. Now construction of the instruments has improved such that you can play fairly comfortably in a range of keys, making the horribly shrill sounding C clarinet pretty much obsolete.

I think (and this is going back 13 or 14 years in my head to a music history class) that transposing instruments were developed to prevent cross-fingerings. ie, all schaums or rackets had the same fingering regardless of tessitura. You could learn a different fingering system for each instrument within the family or you could just transpose the. The transposing option was chosen because unless you're going to write it down, it doesn't matter.

That being said, even though it may be convenient to grab your Bb trumpet, C trumpet or D trumpet depending on what key the ensemble is playing in, those instruments all have different timbres.