Seriously, this is starting to wind me RIGHT up! For the last year I've been trying to learn by ear, using pretty much all the books/tapes/CDs I can find.

Problem? I STILL can't do it! I can't even pick up simple basslines and I'm getting frustrated.

Does anyone know what I can try now? It's getting annoying.

Don't get so frustrated. It takes some time, and it's different with everyone. Some styles I'm good at doing this, and others might as well be foreign language. It's all about recognizing common paterns IMO.

Don't get so frustrated. It takes some time, and it's different with everyone. Some styles I'm good at doing this, and others might as well be foreign language. It's all about recognizing common paterns IMO.



Yes, but after a year I can't even identify single notes, yet alone basslines.

Here's a drill that I do regularly that has improved my ear.

When you are watching TV, have an unplugged guitar or bass with you. Try to match pitch, or find the key/tonal center of the music you hear. (This is less annoying to other family members if you limit it to commercial breaks)
At first, just finding a note can be difficult before the track changes. After a while, you can almost instinctively go to the right spot on the neck, within a half step either way.

If you've only been playing for a little over a year then I wouldn't expect you to be able to play a lot of songs by ear. Just be patient, practice, and keep learning. Things will click for you eventually. A year really isn't a long time on any instrument though.

Should add I've been playing almost 3 years too.

One thing that helped me learn a lot of bass lines by ear was learning a lot of bass lines in other ways. The more bass lines I knew, the more I recognized what was going on in new ones I heard.

Not that I am a perfect ear player by any stretch.

another tactic i use is to begin soloing along in a specific key or pentatonic scale until I can be reasonably sure I am in or close to the key of the song. That way my note choices become more limited and potentially accurate.

and finally, learning the sound of common chord progressions and listening to the harmonic shape of the song goes along way towards providing clues about what the bass might be doing.

Singing is super important. Another thing, when im going to bed or on the bus I will play a bass line in my head while imagining fret positions. It seriously helps.

Start to play the melody of simple child songs like twinkle twinkle on your bass. Just imagine the song in your head first, then find the starting note. When you're done, play the melody by ear until you have it nailed down correctly.

I say "simple child songs" because they have simple melodies that are easy to remember. Psalms or other songs with easy, well-defined melodies that you remember well might work as well. When you can do this well enough, move on to more advanced melodies.

Btw, how well do you know your music theory? (scales, chord progressions etc)

Btw, how well do you know your music theory? (scales, chord progressions etc)

I know my theory reasonably well, although chords I'm not too sure about. I can play triads/dyads well though.

Check out this website, www.musictheory.net

There are some great utilities and trainers and they are free. They can help you nail intervals, but it takes time

You might actually try transcribing songs ... simple at first and then as you get better more difficult songs.

The more stuff I transcribe I find my ears get better as a side effect. That's the bonus.

I like the TV drill myself. I also recommend figuring out songs in other ways (sheet music, or the dreaded tabs) to develop your ear. Practice with and without the music on in the background.

I think I'm going slowly deaf...

I think I'm going slowly deaf...

Nah, I think you just don't have the ability to recognize what you're hearing. You can hear but you can't identify what you've heard. I'm willing to bet there you have favorite songs that you can hear in your head and also play them back in your head. You can take these melodies that you can playback in your head and play them on the bass. It's a tedious process but it does get easier the more you do it, you just haven't done it enough.

I think I'm going slowly deaf...

Ask your private audiologist. :p I mean, in 2 hours, you managed to go to his office, confirm your home diagnosis, and come back to TB to post the findings.

Ear training isn't hard, but honestly, not everyone can do it. Not everyone has an ear for music you know.

Ear training isn't hard, but honestly, not everyone can do it. Not everyone has an ear for music you know.

I have reletive pitch not perfect pitch. It was identified when i was younger by my music teachers. In all ear training exercises i done, i always got a note played, told what it was and then asked to identify other notes, chords, or intervals from it. Forty years on it has served me good with not a problem and if you play a note to me without a reference note i would still not be able to identify it.

Yes, but after a year I can't even identify single notes, yet alone basslines.

Try identifying intervals, unless you have perfect hearing identifying single notes probably won't be possible, and whole basslines might be to difficult to start with.

Should add I've been playing almost 3 years too.

I've been doing ear training for 3 years and I still suck at it.

It'll take time.

I use "interval mnemonics" to remember intervals. Play 2 notes, and think of a song that starts with that interval.

i.e. Here comes the bride - Perfect 4th
Maria (West Side Story) - Maj 7
NBC tones - Maj 6

Sorry to be so US-centric, but those are the ones I use.

I use "interval mnemonics" to remember intervals. Play 2 notes, and think of a song that starts with that interval.

i.e. Here comes the bride - Perfect 4th
Maria (West Side Story) - Maj 7
NBC tones - Maj 6

Sorry to be so US-centric, but those are the ones I use.

Also singing parts of simple songs in interval or solfege like kid's tune Frere Jacque 1,2,3,1 or Sloop John B. 1,3,4,3. Hot Blooded 1,4,4,4. When Saints Go Marching In 1,3,4,5 Also practice singing common melodic resolutions 2,1,4,3,6,5,7,1. I like to sing simple bass lines in numbers to get the interval association in my head.

Singing all this stuff in number and/or solfege really programs the intervals into the brain. Also focus on the small intervals, a 5th and below they are the ones you hear the most.

Also singing parts of simple songs in interval or solfege like kid's tune Frere Jacque 1,2,3,1 or Sloop John B. 1,3,4,3. Hot Blooded 1,4,4,4. When Saints Go Marching In 1,3,4,5 Also practice singing common melodic resolutions 2,1,4,3,6,5,7,1. I like to sing simple bass lines in numbers to get the interval association in my head.

Singing all this stuff in number and/or solfege really programs the intervals into the brain. Also focus on the small intervals, a 5th and below they are the ones you hear the most.

That seems like good advice Doc.

Singing is super important.

Try identifying intervals, unless you have perfect hearing identifying single notes probably won't be possible, and whole basslines might be to difficult to start with.

These are two great pieces of advice. I never really worked on ear training when I started playing but these two have helped a bunch in the last year. I'm getting better, will still sometimes transcribe a song off a half of whole step but the intervals are on.

I find the best test is to have a cheap keyboard or someone on a piano play little ditty's and try to match it...:)

I need help, too! Unless it's a blues song in the standard 12 bar patter, I have no idea of the chord progression I'm hearing. I want to really zero in on that and try to figure that out. INdividually i knwo the difference between major and minor chords, but if something goes to a IV or V from a I... often I'm not sure which of the chords it is. This is a liability for a bass player, but I want to make it better.

Often in myl essons, I'll be thinking that my ear is broken simply because I don't recognize what I'm hearing. I want some help making sense of it all!

I disagree a little with the singing method. If a person can't sing and is constantly wandering in different keys like an average american idol contestant, the effort will be doomed. My suggestion for starting to learn songs by ear is to listen and play along music that uses primarily only power chords. When I was a kid I just put a punk record* on and started to play along. There won't be excessive amounts of notes ringing and you don't have to know if it's a minor or a major chord because there's just the root and the fifth. Those things make the learning process a lot more easier. Some simple pop-punk like Green Day or Blink 182 should do the trick.


* Klamydia (Chlamydia) :p

Guys, her audiologist said she's going deaf and is the source of her inability to play along to anything by ear. She's not going to listen to you because she can't hear you.

Are there voices in your head that might prevent you from hearing the music?

Guys, her audiologist said she's going deaf and is the source of her inability to play along to anything by ear. She's not going to listen to you because she can't hear you.

Her audiologist is the source of her inability to play along to anything by ear?

I'd sue.

Isn't "Maria" a tritone on it's first 2 notes?

Also.. I agree with starting with some Blink182 to get a few tunes under your belt. Also learning simple folk or children's songs works too. Start with Twinkle Twinkle and work your way up to something more like Scotland the Brave.

Also start with tunes where the bass is mixed in pretty heavy or doubles the guitar the whole time. Then take it one note at a time and if it doesn't sound right it's not... if nothing seems to sound right... re-tune your bass to the recording and try again

Have you taken a formal ear training course? And by formal I mean with a teacher?
I know it might seem like overkill if you are not in classical music, but if you can't learn it by yourself, there's nothing wrong with having someone teach you. Or if you don't want to do that, at least get a musician friend to coach you. It might help.

Check out this website, www.musictheory.net

There are some great utilities and trainers and they are free. They can help you nail intervals, but it takes time

This is a really good site, thanks a lot.

The interval ear trainer is pretty good :)

Is Fassa talking about perfect pitch or not having the ability to hear intervals and chord progressions?

The people I've known with perfect pitch I could count on my fingers. It is extremely rare.

Developing good relative pitch is a matter of time and practice = patience. I learned the most in a first year college music theory class. Every day we had to stand and sing solfege. Hard at first, and somewhat embarrassing, but after awhile was able to to do it fairly well. Just took consistent daily practice.
Maybe look into a theory class at a Community College. It's way more fun to study with a bunch of ppl at the same level you are. Discussions arise that may include info you wouldn't have thought to ask. Or you may have a way of looking at a musical concept that would be helpful to someone else.

I agree the MusicTheory.com trainers are really good!

Damn, for once her thread doesn't turn into a ****throwing fest and now she seems to have disappeared :D

if you play a note to me without a reference note i would still not be able to identify it.

But that's not really all that critical. I learned to play entirely by ear, and as a sucky reader, I depend on my "big ears" but identifying a lone note with no other musical context around it is not important(great if you can though, but not necessary). As it's been said here by others, focus on identifying intervals. And I agree completely with singing comment--singing/humming basslines or melodies as you visualize the intervals in your noggin' is something you can do anywhere, any time.

Damn, for once her thread doesn't turn into a ****throwing fest and now she seems to have disappeared :DI believe the correct term is "lownered". ;) :D

I agree with most of the advice given so far. One other possibility, however, is that the OP might actually be "tone deaf". I have run across occasional students who have serious pitch recognition problems. For example, I play two clear, sustained notes for them consecutively and they cannot tell me which note is lower and which is higher. This is about as rare as students who are gifted with a naturally great ear, but it does happen.

I had a long discussion with my bass teacher (male) and a close friend who sings tenor. I think for me as a female who normally sings melody and has taken up bass only in the last few years, it's hard for me to hear in that range. It's not that I'm NOT hearing it, but that my natural pitch inclination is to go to the 5th of the chord instead of the root.

My teacher believes it's a matter of time for me until I get it, just that I have to work to develop this new musical skill. My tenor friend suggested to me that I sing my bass lines so I can better internalize the music. I thought it was a great suggestion that has made me very excited to use it in my practice.

So... I put that out there in case that's of use to any other female bassists who have found themselves in similar situations.

Guys, her audiologist said she's going deaf and is the source of her inability to play along to anything by ear. She's not going to listen to you because she can't hear you.

That is so not funny!

I find the best test is to have a cheap keyboard or someone on a piano play little ditty's and try to match it...:)

I have a keyboard....I'll dig it out.

Her audiologist is the source of her inability to play along to anything by ear?

I'd sue.

No, he's saying I'm going to go deaf.

Damn, for once her thread doesn't turn into a ****throwing fest and now she seems to have disappeared :D

I'm right here.

I agree with most of the advice given so far. One other possibility, however, is that the OP might actually be "tone deaf". I have run across occasional students who have serious pitch recognition problems. For example, I play two clear, sustained notes for them consecutively and they cannot tell me which note is lower and which is higher. This is about as rare as students who are gifted with a naturally great ear, but it does happen.

I've done a tone deafness test before, when I auditioned to signup for cello classes, and I got nearly all them right.

Check out this website, www.musictheory.net

There are some great utilities and trainers and they are free. They can help you nail intervals, but it takes time

Took a look....cool site.

Well I am in the same boat as you bud.

Heres what I do:

Have a schedule in your wall next to your bass. Write down your practice sessions like ear training, scales, finger strength, theory, etc.
- Mae sure you dedicate AT LEAST 1 hour a day for all of them. Spend more time with what you are having trouble with.
I spend 1 hour a day with ear training.

Also have a chart of songs with the order of your choice. I do mine from easiest to hardest.

Repeatedly listen to the song you want to learn. I meanREALLY listen. Turn off the lights, close the door, turn off the fan and try your best with the bass lines. Listen to how it works with the melod of the song etc.

Keep listening over and over again until you can clearly hear the bassline in your head and you can sing it.

Thne you pick up your bass and transcribe.

Another good way to pick up pitch memory is to get a glass of water and tap it. Try to find the pitch of that note in your bass. As you get better extend the distance of time after you tap the glass to find your note.

Also when you practice sing along with what you are playing. Or do some facial movements. It looks stupid but it helps wit hyour feeling the notes vibe. I sing along the scales I hear.

Well thats what I do...

Just wanna share something I stumbled upon recently. I was looking for something that will play a random sequence of notes so I could play it back on my bass.

http://www.iwasdoingallright.com/tools/ear_training/

Just wanna share something I stumbled upon recently. I was looking for something that will play a random sequence of notes so I could play it back on my bass.

http://www.iwasdoingallright.com/tools/ear_training/



Great site!

Just wanna share something I stumbled upon recently. I was looking for something that will play a random sequence of notes so I could play it back on my bass.

http://www.iwasdoingallright.com/tools/ear_training/

This is awesome, thanks for sharing!

Damn, for once her thread doesn't turn into a ****throwing fest and now she seems to have disappeared :D


Too much like hard work....:eyebrow: ?


:D

Seriously, this is starting to wind me RIGHT up! For the last year I've been trying to learn by ear, using pretty much all the books/tapes/CDs I can find.

Problem? I STILL can't do it! I can't even pick up simple basslines and I'm getting frustrated.

Does anyone know what I can try now? It's getting annoying.

You may be tone-deaf.

Simple exercise: Have someone play a reference note.

Then have another person play the same note, then another note that's close.

If you can't tell which of the two notes is the same as the reference note, you may be tone-deaf.

Some people say it's a myth, but it isn't. I have a couple of friends who are tone-deaf. One is so tone-deaf that he can't tell the difference between a note and the same note an octave higher. Yet physically he has perfect hearing.

I don't know if it can be fixed or anything. It might be a similar thing to colourblindness.

I'd say keep at it, but if this is something you've been working on for a long time and still made zero progress, it might be worth talking to a professional about it.

You may be tone-deaf.

Simple exercise: Have someone play a reference note.

Then have another person play the same note, then another note that's close.

If you can't tell which of the two notes is the same as the reference note, you may be tone-deaf.

Some people say it's a myth, but it isn't. I have a couple of friends who are tone-deaf. One is so tone-deaf that he can't tell the difference between a note and the same note an octave higher. Yet physically he has perfect hearing.

I don't know if it can be fixed or anything. It might be a similar thing to colourblindness.


Or maybe not suited to being a bass player...?

Seriously when I do Jazz classes, there are a variety of instrumentalists, often of varying levels. Many of them just cannot hear bass or what note the bass is playing.

So the teacher will say - just listen to the bass line and you will hear where we are in the chord sequence and will pick out points in the sequence where it is unambiguous where you are - but some people say they just cannot hear bass notes, while for others in the class it is perfectly clear!

I still believe that you can improve with training - but I know that personally I have always heard bass lines very clearly and that's why I chose to be a bass player! Whereas some people will say they just don't hear that great bass line I am raving about, on a recording that we are both hearing at huge volume! :p

I would start with the basics of positive thinking and manifesting what you want{Wayne Dyer comes to mind}. If you're in a constant mind frame of knowing you will achieve something...you will...if doubt is constant and "i cant" is constant...you wont. Sounds hokey but im a firm believer in it from experience.

I have always been good at picking out basslines, and working out the notes, while many of my friends are terrible at it - I guess that some people are naturally better at it.

However, there are some things which I have used to help myself. Firstly make sure that you are listening to the music you are trying to figure out through something decent. I was amazed at the difference between different (more expensive...) sets of headphones. I used to have a pair of earphones that came free with my Sony MP3 Walkman, which I realised were awful to start with. I went out and spent £15 on a pair of in-ear headphones, which were infinitely better that the free ones, and I was happy with for a couple of years. Then they broke, and I thought that I might as well get a slightly nicer pair - I was looking in the £25-30 range. In the end, I got a pair of over-ear headphones that were £55 in a sale, reduced from £70. They sounded really odd at first, but after a couple of weeks my ears adjusted to them, and everything is so much more clear now - I tried the old ones not long ago, and it sounded so horrible and muffled! I can hear things in the music which I couldn't hear before, which helps immensely. Also, headphones are much better than speakers, as you can only hear the music - no extra space to distract you.

Secondly, concentration - if you are having trouble picking out a bass line, close your eyes, turn the music up, and concentrate on the line. Imagine it as a physical object - picture exactly where it is in the mix, and pull it towards you. You can focus your brain on just one instrument in a song, and pick out individual instruments and parts, even in a dense mix, for example something like a Britney Spears song, which has lots of subtle things going on that you don't hear normally (or rather you do hear them, but you don't NOTICE them).

Software which slows down music can be useful sometimes - but not all the time. It is worth getting some for those moments when it is really useful. I think that Audacity does it - anyone confirm this? I use Line 6 Gearbox.

The last point I will make has already been said - use common songs as reference points for working out intervals. For example, I use 'Away In A Manger' for a 4th, and the Star Wars theme tune for a 5th.

I've been playing about 3 years now, and I'm only just starting to be able to play by ear now. Keep playing and practicing, it takes time. Just make sure you make the effort to try and play by ear before you pull up the tab, and always use your ear to make sure the tab is right. Playing to a tab with an open ear = much better than JUST using the tab :)

Fassa, ear training is hard and takes a long time, as many here have said. You are building new neural connections, and these don't happen very quickly. It is easier to grow hair, fat, muscle, bone, and calluses that it is to grown brain richness, i.e. aural skills.

Don't give up, and don't fall into doubt due to the above talk of "tone deaf." You passed the pitch perception test long ago to be able to take cello, so don't worry. That is not to say "don't work."

I advise getting a teacher, if you haven't already. Since you can read music, evening or summer ear training classes at the local music college are a good idea. Do you sing at all? If so, join a local choir of any kind, if you can.

Or maybe not suited to being a bass player...?

Seriously when I do Jazz classes, there are a variety of instrumentalists, often of varying levels. Many of them just cannot hear bass or what note the bass is playing.

So the teacher will say - just listen to the bass line and you will hear where we are in the chord sequence and will pick out points in the sequence where it is unambiguous where you are - but some people say they just cannot hear bass notes, while for others in the class it is perfectly clear!

I still believe that you can improve with training - but I know that personally I have always heard bass lines very clearly and that's why I chose to be a bass player! Whereas some people will say they just don't hear that great bass line I am raving about, on a recording that we are both hearing at huge volume! :p

Interesting. My college roommate put up with me practicing my bass in the dorm. He played guitar pretty well. After a year or so he told me: "Listening to you practice your bass, I am finally beginning to hear the bass parts on records. I never noticed the bass before."

So I wonder if part of ear training is breaking old habits in terms of what you listen to and notice in music.

Didn't read all the responses here, but do you know how to play a major scale? Can you sing the scale without playing it, note for note? All ear training is dependent on that first. Learn to sing and play a major scale. Do it at the same time for a while if you have to.

Then learn to play and sing it in thirds. For example, in the key of C, you would play C-E-D-F-E-G-F-A-G-B-A-C-B-D-C. Then do the same back down. Do this till you can sing it from memory without your instrument. Use the same fingering EVERY time you play it. This builds muscle memory and attaches the sounds you hear to a shape on the fret board. You can learn to add new shapes to those same sounds later. Just learn one for now.

You can also apply this using 4ths, 5ths, 6ths, etc. But just learn it in 3rds for starters.

If you can't already do this, I think sitting around trying to identify intervals off of some training CD is a waste of time. When you play music, you really aren't thinking about each little interval, even if you could name them if you had to stop and do it. You're playing shapes that sound familiar. Arpegiating the diatonic scale, starting on each scale tone, is another great way to familiarize yourself with the different chords in that key. They start to sound familiar over time, and you recognize a certain color or edge that is unique to each one.

It's all familiarity that makes it happen, which comes from playing them. The playing comes first, and understanding comes much later. Just keep at it.

Interesting. My college roommate put up with me practicing my bass in the dorm. He played guitar pretty well. After a year or so he told me: "Listening to you practice your bass, I am finally beginning to hear the bass parts on records. I never noticed the bass before."

So I wonder if part of ear training is breaking old habits in terms of what you listen to and notice in music.Same here happened to me, except I learned from a drummer. I of course always caught the bass kick, and back beat, but he was always tapping away on the subdivisions when we had music playing, and embelishing the high hat nuance with some "hissing" in his voice. I really started noticing how one drummer can make the drums sing, while another just does well to keep time.

its different for every player. playing by ear came naturally to me. others find it very hard. when you learn by ear, focus on just learning a small part before doing the whole song. match notes on the simple lines. soon youll start to move naturally to where the note will be. once you really get to know your bass and notes, you can hit it within the first few notes. i have always learned by ear. in fact, in my 6-7 years of playing, i never really studied the fretboard on what fret is what note. i just new my tones and all. fret notes are still slow to me.

also, if you do not like to learn by tabs like me, use youtube. many people will do a cover of a song on bass. watch their hands a few times and where they are placed. then you will get the general area that the notes you are searching for will be in. learning by ear is either very hard to learn, or it comes naturally. it just takes time.