The bug bit again and I had to start at least designing the follow-up to Z Bass.
Z Bass II will be:
5-String
Neck: Neck-thru, Maple, Fretted, w/Rosewood fretboard (Jazz V dimensions, 21 frets)
Inlay style? - Possibly block or somthing similar to Ric's 4001 triangles...
Body: Maple or Ash - thin profile
Pickups: J-Style (probably passive, noisless - but nothing firm yet) - V, V, T
Simple, Fender-style, 5-string bridge and J-style nut.
Finish: Painted (solid color with solid color pickguard)
I am sticking with my general body shape with some subtle modifications:
A Z Bass Family shot:
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_ddlDqoHdCYQ/SXtx0ZEvAUI/AAAAAAAAGXU/gILi4szrpn0/s640/P1010056.JPG
The lower bout, bass side of the body will be a little fuller than the original Z Bass with a more dramatic turn into the dip.
The upper horn 'cresting wave' will have a little more curve at the top.
The lower horn will be more of an 'answer' to the upper horn.
Control cavity will be routed in the top instead of the back, like Z Bass I.
I'm in the very early phases of design and I expect it to evolve like the last one, but for the time being, this is the design I am working with.
I am going for a more 'retro' flavor with a solid color paint job - something like antique or olympic white w/black pickguard - or vice-versa, black (think Jetglo) paint with white/white-ish pickguard.
A more simple, Rock and Roll aesthetic. Yes, I've got Geddy's 4001 in mind - but I want to remain open to other cool two-tone variations -
Red/Maroon Body w/Black PG
Red/Maroon Body w/ tan/copper PG
Good old black and white or White and black... But simple and bold.
I think I'd like to bind the body.
This will be my first fretting job and I am nervous about that... But I am sure I'll get through it with a little help from my TB friends!
This, like my last build, will unfold slowly. I'll be acquiring my parts slowly as I can carve out a few $$ here and there. I am shooting for begining to cut wood when the weather warms up to bearable. One of the drawbacks of having to work in an unheated garage.
Away we go!
asad137
01-24-2009, 01:32 PM
Looks cool, man! I definitely get the 'modern Ric' vibe from the body and pickguard.
Asad
tZer
01-24-2009, 02:35 PM
asad137 - thanks! That's pretty much what I'm shooting for this time.
roberthabraken
01-24-2009, 02:43 PM
Very nice! Subscribed.. :smug:
pilotjones
01-24-2009, 02:53 PM
Looks great. Like, really great.
abarson
01-24-2009, 03:11 PM
I really like this shape! Kind of Ric-ish, but flows more.
slyjoe
01-24-2009, 03:28 PM
Family shot? More like a single school shot with an ultrasound of the one in the oven :)
Looks great - did you change the lower bout to have more of a "hook" from the first design?
BenitoBassolini
01-24-2009, 03:36 PM
I'm in love with the design!
tZer
01-25-2009, 02:27 AM
Yeah, baby! It's 3:30am - just in from another fantastic, universe-expanding jam session - and I get to read this!
Thanks - I am confident this build is going to kick ass.
tZer
01-25-2009, 02:54 AM
Family shot? More like a single school shot with an ultrasound of the one in the oven :)
Looks great - did you change the lower bout to have more of a "hook" from the first design?
Yep - exactly. The last one's got 'massaged' out. Too much shaping. Shaping can be very addicting, especially with the flex drum sander... you can get carried away... that sort of softened most of the more exaggerated moves in the original design. I don't want to make that same mistake this time.
JoelEoM
01-25-2009, 07:27 AM
Yeah, baby! It's 3:30am - just in from another fantastic, universe-expanding jam session - and I get to read this!
heh, those are always a good time. they dont happen nearly as much as i would like though.
really looking forward to seeing this one take shape. i was very impressed with your first build, and love your styling, as far as how much all the parts flow together. i see a lot of quality work floating around, but not all of it seems to have that cohesion, you know?
UncleBalsamic
01-25-2009, 07:34 AM
Great design - fantastic take on the Ric-look!
asad137
01-25-2009, 08:43 AM
Is it going to be 33.25" scale like a Ric?
Asad
tZer
01-25-2009, 11:14 AM
Is it going to be 33.25" scale like a Ric?
Asad
No - 34", like my last build. I do like the feel of shorter scale basses, but not 35". Being a 5 string, I feel I need every inch (boy, there's a phrase that sounds bad out of context...). 34" is the scale of my last build as well as the scale of my Fender and MusicMan, so I'm going with what I'm used to.
Jools4001
01-25-2009, 01:38 PM
Hmmm...I was only looking at your first build thread for about the fifteenth time the other day and thinking how much I like the first design, as people have said a little Ric-esque, but you can tell from my board name that the Ric 4000/1/3/4 has been one of my favourite bass designs since I was 14.
I thought your first build was a fantastic take on an updated Ric look with maybe a touch of Marleaux Consat thrown in (another shape I really like - surprise, surprise).
I'm not sure this second design has quite got that pizazz, but I'm prepared to eat my words. Look forward to watching the build.
tZer
01-25-2009, 03:32 PM
Jools4001 - We'll see. I feel like the updates I've made to my original design bring it closer to a Ric. You may be right.
I am also going to keep this one more 'square finished' - not rounding over the edges and keeping it more like a Ric and I am probably going to bind the body too - both, in my mind, make it very Ric-esque.
I was waiting to see another of your dsigns to come to life!
good luc,k with this one!
subscribed.
Jools4001
01-26-2009, 04:44 AM
Jools4001 - We'll see. I feel like the updates I've made to my original design bring it closer to a Ric. You may be right.
I am also going to keep this one more 'square finished' - not rounding over the edges and keeping it more like a Ric and I am probably going to bind the body too - both, in my mind, make it very Ric-esque.
I probably came over as being too harsh, I meant it as a backhanded complement. I still like the second design (as I said ^^^ up there, pretty much anything that has shades of Ric in it gets my vote).
But, whilst I LIKE the second, I LOVE the first...it's an inspiration (and also trumps a build I was planning)
tZer
01-26-2009, 08:01 AM
I probably came over as being too harsh, I meant it as a backhanded complement. I still like the second design (as I said ^^^ up there, pretty much anything that has shades of Ric in it gets my vote).
But, whilst I LIKE the second, I LOVE the first...it's an inspiration (and also trumps a build I was planning)
Thanks a lot! It's really great to hear especially since the things I'm trying to accomplish with this one's look seem to be recognizable.
But I am glad I took your post the way I did - which wasn't badly at all - I took it as an honest appraisal of your take on the design. Since you do appreciate the Ric angle of thing much the way I seem to, your comments made me take a closer look.
The way I made the paper model was by looking at the screen (I didn't have access to a printer) and sketching it by hand - by eye. I traced my original Z Bass and my Fender Jazz V onto the posterboard to provide boundaries and shape hints, then traced in the adjustments by looking at my design on screen.
I used my Fender V for dimension references for bridge, neck and pup placement.
So the paper model is not a full-scale printout of my digital rendering - which I do like better than the paper model.
After your comments, I started looking at the photo in comparison to the design and I found that I do want to adjust the body of the paper model to be much closer to the digital rendering.
Here's the original design:
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_ddlDqoHdCYQ/SX3Lak_cNeI/AAAAAAAAGZ8/aEFalhWJfdY/ZBassII_origDesign.jpg
And here's a picture of the full-scale paper model that I distorted to compensate for the perspective of the picture.
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_ddlDqoHdCYQ/SX3LaPSZc9I/AAAAAAAAGZs/0V95RXS8xJ0/FullScalePaperModel_Skewed.jpg
And here's an overlay of the original on the skewed photo:
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_ddlDqoHdCYQ/SX3LaV2EbCI/AAAAAAAAGZ0/MyJkHa5B8KA/FullScalePaperModel_Overlay.jpg
Being that I did use my Fender bass for actual measurements in my full-scale model, there will be some aspects that I don't change much. But the lower bout (if that's the correct way to refer to the bridge end of the body) - is going on a diet and the lower horn is getting reduction surgery as it protrudes more than I'd like and is a little to wide.
I am going to bring the center dips in more - maybe not quite as deep as shown, but definitely more - which will alter the design of the pick guard a bit. In my opinion, for the better.
It's really something how a little perspective in a photo can significantly alter how the shape look! Of course, it makes perfect sense - but when I did the overlay, I was struck by how skewed the photo was and realized that doesn't accurately show the proportions.
And I love the first one too - and thanks again for your compliments.
tZer
02-17-2009, 10:53 AM
While I can't afford to start building yet, I can dream. When I dream, I dream in Photoshop!
While lazing on the couch after a long day at work I decided to do some renderings of various body color, fretboard, inlay, combination and, if I do say so myself, I think many of these look really cool!
Here are some renderings of what could be my second build.
Dark Sunburst, Black Pick Guard (scratch plate), quilted maple fretboard w/White Block Inlays
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_ddlDqoHdCYQ/SZpJCaFJdCI/AAAAAAAAGeU/_dF6C5uIvs0/s720/sunburst_maple.jpg
Dark Sunburst, Black Pick Guard (scratch plate), rosewood fretboard w/Black Block Inlays
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_ddlDqoHdCYQ/SZpJD2SwHJI/AAAAAAAAGec/XCA1XN4INTs/s720/sunburst_rosewood.jpg
Dark Redburst, Black Pick Guard (scratch plate), quilted maple fretboard w/White Block Inlays
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_ddlDqoHdCYQ/SZpJE3xdWsI/AAAAAAAAGek/kRRt9wqMMNM/s720/redburst_maple.jpg
Dark Redburst, Black Pick Guard (scratch plate), rosewood fretboard w/Black Block Inlays
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_ddlDqoHdCYQ/SZpJGDubmSI/AAAAAAAAGes/7jN5rqpiKWA/s720/redburst_rosewood.jpg
Dark Redburst, Black Pick Guard (scratch plate), combo rosewood/quilted maple fretboard w/White Block Inlays
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_ddlDqoHdCYQ/SZpJHsW72NI/AAAAAAAAGe0/eZ5OOJLJXs4/s720/redburst_maple_rosewood.jpg
Green-gold burst (black binding), Black Pick Guard (scratch plate), quilted maple fretboard w/Black Block Inlays
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_ddlDqoHdCYQ/SZpJKQfNKDI/AAAAAAAAGfE/tiqzIB3FEbw/s720/goldburst_maple.jpg
Green burst (white binding), White Pick Guard (scratch plate), rosewood fretboard w/White Block Inlays
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_ddlDqoHdCYQ/SZpJLm2vs0I/AAAAAAAAGfM/9iH6a6WGnb8/s720/greenWhite_rosewood.jpg
Green burst (black binding), Black Pick Guard (scratch plate), quilted maple fretboard w/Black Block Inlays
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_ddlDqoHdCYQ/SZpJM1bFtkI/AAAAAAAAGfU/g8H7mF5zZJY/s720/greenBlack_maple.jpg
White (black binding), Black Pick Guard (scratch plate), rosewood fretboard w/white off-center dots
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_ddlDqoHdCYQ/SZpJOO5zKbI/AAAAAAAAGfc/hcyCSH1Ptpw/s720/whiteBlack_rosewood.jpg
White (black binding), Black Pick Guard (scratch plate), quilted maple fretboard w/Black Block Inlays
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_ddlDqoHdCYQ/SZpJPKuOs6I/AAAAAAAAGfk/fbAB8C_92d0/s720/whiteBlack_maple.jpg
White (black binding), Black Pick Guard (scratch plate), rosewood fretboard w/White Block Inlays
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_ddlDqoHdCYQ/SZpJQRhPr2I/AAAAAAAAGfs/-QRlGrRDA-U/s720/whiteBlack_rosewood_whiteblock.jpg
Black (white binding), White Pick Guard (scratch plate), rosewood fretboard w/White Block Inlays
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_ddlDqoHdCYQ/SZpJRRHSzcI/AAAAAAAAGf0/sK5Io8hDUJY/s720/blackWhite_rosewood_whiteBlock.jpg
Black (white binding), White Pick Guard (scratch plate), quilted maple fretboard w/Black Block Inlays
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_ddlDqoHdCYQ/SZpJSjuGN4I/AAAAAAAAGf8/5oZDfK9epUE/s720/blackWhite_maple_blackBlock.jpg
jmorbita
02-17-2009, 11:11 AM
Beautiful.
tZer
02-17-2009, 11:14 AM
Thanks! I am pretty pleased with these renderings. Hopefully I'll be able to make the real-deal live up to the fantasy!
Since I am not in a place where I can start buying wood and making sawdust, I figure I can really dig into the planning and try to optimize my process. Doing these renderings really keeps the fire burning and makes me feel like I am in the building process even though I having made a single cut yet.
BenitoBassolini
02-17-2009, 01:15 PM
I'll be gassing for a 4 in black on white with lots of fancy binding and blocking... I can't wait to see this build go!
mikeyswood
02-17-2009, 01:19 PM
Green burst (white binding), White Pick Guard (scratch plate), rosewood fretboard w/White Block Inlays
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_ddlDqoHdCYQ/SZpJLm2vs0I/AAAAAAAAGfM/9iH6a6WGnb8/s720/greenWhite_rosewood.jpg
Minty!
Fresh!
G.A.S.!
roberthabraken
02-17-2009, 01:21 PM
Minty!
Fresh!
G.A.S.!
Totally my choice either!!!
tZer
02-17-2009, 01:24 PM
Benito - I'll try to make the basses build on time!
Firsts in this build for me will be frets and binding. Both make me a little nervous - but only a little.
Still trying to decide it a radiused fretboards is worth the effort.
My last build was a fretless with a flat fingerboard and I enjoy it quite a lot. I don't know what difference frets make, though.
Anyone have thoughts about radiused vs. flat fretboards on a fretted instrument?
Also - if anyone has suggestions about binding (body, neck, headstock), please feel free to share!
tZer
02-17-2009, 01:25 PM
Minty!
Fresh!
G.A.S.!
LOL! For some reason that one reminds me of bowling shoes!
I like it too - I like them all. Damn, I wanna build!
Yvarg
02-17-2009, 03:11 PM
The black body/white pickguard with the rosewood fretboard looks pretty awesome.
tZer
02-17-2009, 03:18 PM
The black body/white pickguard with the rosewood fretboard looks pretty awesome.
That's the one that really screams "I am the bastard child of a Ric!" - it looks so much like Geddy's 4001 with those colors.
Full disclosure: I am definitely emulating a Ric and mixing in some flavors of a Jazz with this build just in case anyone thinks I think I've done something entirely original - I know it's not.
I do feel that there are enough differences in my design to feel secure that I am not completely ripping off either. But the Ric flavor is very thick in these concepts.
pilotjones
02-17-2009, 03:26 PM
Dark Redburst, Black Pick Guard (scratch plate), rosewood fretboard w/Black Block Inlays
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_ddlDqoHdCYQ/SZpJGDubmSI/AAAAAAAAGes/7jN5rqpiKWA/s720/redburst_rosewood.jpgI'd go with this one, except: padauk fingerboard (like your picture, actually), padauk body top bursted from black at edges to clear at center.
tZer
02-17-2009, 03:34 PM
I'd go with this one, except: padauk fingerboard (like your picture, actually), padauk body top bursted from black at edges to clear at center.
That's a good idea! While I really do want to paint this one, your suggestion would get that design done with a lot less paint!
I'll put that into the "think hard about this" bin. Thanks for the tip!
mikeyswood
02-17-2009, 03:45 PM
Full disclosure: I am definitely emulating a Ric and mixing in some flavors of a Jazz with this build just in case anyone thinks I think I've done something entirely original - I know it's not.
It is clear to see your influences. Ric leaves a lot of room to improve and I think that you are doing very well. We each have our inspirations in building just like playing. You can see the Bernie Rico influence in all of mine ;)
pilotjones
02-17-2009, 03:59 PM
That's a good idea! While I really do want to paint this one, your suggestion would get that design done with a lot less paint!
I'll put that into the "think hard about this" bin. Thanks for the tip!Yeah, you can get some pretty uniform padauk with little to no figuring to get more of the solid-color effect. I imagine it would be cheaper than what is usually considered "nice fancy wood." Likewise with bloodwood.
Or, another thought: padauk FB and body, as before, no burst, black binding, all black hardware. Like a natural wood cross between these two:
http://www.the-music-connection.com/bloodstar.jpghttp://www.rocknrollvintage.com/prodimages/1985%20rickenbacker%204003%20bass.jpg
tZer
02-17-2009, 04:03 PM
Yeah, you can get some pretty uniform padauk with little to no figuring to get more of the solid-color effect. I imagine it would be cheaper than what is usually considered "nice fancy wood." Likewise with bloodwood.
I am oh so familiar with padauk! My last build was 50% padauk - fingerboard + sandwiched in the body and more!
im a fan of the Green with the white binding it is very reto-ish but still kewl lookin forward to see how this turns out
Stone Age
02-17-2009, 07:31 PM
You've got some serious photo shop skills!
tZer
02-18-2009, 07:32 AM
Thanks again for all the nice comments! I love Photoshop and have loved making real looking renderings from nothing for a LONG time. I could easily do nothing but make designs and bring them to life in Photoshop all day long!
I am also going to try (no promises) to create detailed plans for this build. I don't have a CAD program, but I can use a variety of other software packages to create printable documents with dimensions and assembly details. This just seems like a good idea, ya know? ;-)
I studied mechanical, architectural and engineering drawing for a number of years and was a draftsman in a former life - in the days before and when AutoCAD became the norm.
I think the first phase of this build is going to be spent making routing jigs and patterns. Since I have one build under my belt and know where many of the pitfalls lie, I am going to work very hard to make this build very systematic and measured instead of build a little, fix a little, build a little more, fix a little more.
So I am going to get a few sheets of thick MDF and make some body patterns today at lunch. Hopefully I can spend some time this week or weekend making the patterns.
If anyone has any suggestions about the various jigs and patters they think I'll need, please chime in.
I also need to get my head around fretting the neck. All the rest of the operations I've been through and don't concern me much at all.
But I am going to occupy phase I of build II with nothing put prep. Jigs, patters and plans - Oh MY!
roberthabraken
02-18-2009, 07:45 AM
That's the way to go ! :bassist:
I also like to plan everything carefully, make drawings and think everything through.. I'm in the middle of my first build (as you probably know), so I'll move on step by step. But I reckon planning everything before starting to cut some wood is even better (and even requires a lot more patience :smug:).
throbgod13
03-14-2009, 07:54 AM
i'd lose the strat jackplate and place the output jack in a more hidden area.. it looks very "out of place" on the front of the pickguard..
other than that, it's a very well thought out design, and would easily be marketable..
i like it.. ;)
Wademeister63
03-14-2009, 09:19 AM
I like this one a lot! Reminds me quite a bit of the one I did a while back.
I like that a lot! You captured the retro vibe that I'm shooting for very nicely with that!
UPDATE - (pics coming soon) - I have my neck blank glue up all done and squared up. 5-piece lam - 4 maple, 1 chechen (skunk stripe).
My fret wire, dual action truss with spoke wheel nut and fret saw arrived yesterday from Stew Mac.
I have access to my dad's neighbor's shop again - which is like being granted a visitor's pass to Heaven! Planers, band saws, drill presses, you NAME it - he's got it - and in a room big enough to have a small concert.
And that and EXPERTS (my dad and Mr. Dimmit) to help make sure each operation is handled just right.
Side note and entirely unrelated to building (sorry!) - my experimental/improv band (SoulCoustic) had it's very first gig last night and I'm proud to say we packed the place and successfully filled 4 hours with entirely improvised music and the crowd really dug it! AND we all made money! 3 long sets - each one consisting of about 2 to 3 "songs" - we kept the crowd with us - pulled spontaneous applause for solos and 'special moments' - our singer successfully made up lyrics on the spot - the works... It was quite nice.
More to come on this build SOON! - All my little ducks are lining up nicely.
Ol'Bass'ead
03-16-2009, 08:27 PM
If you are feeling trepidation about binding, why dont you just put a 1/4" maple top (figured would be cool, but plain would work) and just do a natural binding ala PRS? You could do the same effect on the peghead too with a thinner piece. I too would sneak that jackplate around the side, but otherze, its looking great!
Swever
03-16-2009, 09:08 PM
Man! Awesome color solutions and awesome renders!
A bit offtopic: can you give me some guidelines on where/how can i find any lessons on the techniques you use in these awesome drawings?
Geezerman
03-17-2009, 02:35 AM
jesus that design is amazing
tZer
03-17-2009, 08:00 AM
jesus that design is amazing
Thanks a lot! I am very happy with the design and I can't wait to be playing it!
Man! Awesome color solutions and awesome renders!
A bit offtopic: can you give me some guidelines on where/how can i find any lessons on the techniques you use in these awesome drawings?
I don't know of any resources for this sort of rendering off the top of my head. I have been using Photoshop and other drawing/photo manipulation software for (gulp) lots of years now.
My process for doing those is fairly simple when boiled down to each step - but there are LOTS of steps...
But I start with a reasonably to-scale, line-drawing - could be pencil and paper, then scanned or I can create the essential shapes in Photoshop using the bezier line tool and a lot of tweaking.
Then I create paths (bezier tool) for each component of the instrument - the body, neck, fretboard, headstock, pick guard, pups - any individual piece gets it's own path.
Then it's a layering and painting exercise. Create a layer for the body - activate the body path - fill with a solid color or an image of the wood and mess with it until it looks right.
Do that with each and every component and there ya go!
tZer
03-17-2009, 08:00 AM
If you are feeling trepidation about binding, why dont you just put a 1/4" maple top (figured would be cool, but plain would work) and just do a natural binding ala PRS? You could do the same effect on the peghead too with a thinner piece. I too would sneak that jackplate around the side, but otherze, its looking great!
I'll look into that. Thanks for the tip!
Mikey R
03-17-2009, 09:24 AM
Dark Redburst, Black Pick Guard (scratch plate), rosewood fretboard w/Black Block Inlays
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_ddlDqoHdCYQ/SZpJGDubmSI/AAAAAAAAGes/7jN5rqpiKWA/s720/redburst_rosewood.jpg
That one, but with darkstars or Kent Armstrong lipstick singles! That would rock!
Stealth
03-17-2009, 10:49 AM
That one, but with darkstars or Kent Armstrong lipstick singles! That would rock!
+1. Adding Kent Armstrong Toasters to the list, maybe?
tZer
03-17-2009, 11:12 AM
I like the pickups suggestions. It's worth considering for sure. I think I like the toasters suggestion best - followed by lipstick - I am not sure about the Dark Stars - as much as I like their retro look, I get the impression they are designed to capture that "big muddy" sound. I could be WAY off on that - but my addled memory seems to recall discussion along those lines.
I'll do some research into all these suggestions. Thanks again for the input!
MrMe
03-17-2009, 02:25 PM
I really love that design!
Nomad98
03-17-2009, 03:32 PM
I really like the design but why use the strat jack plug? I just think it detracts from a super cool looking bass.
tZer
03-17-2009, 03:40 PM
Yeah - many have balked at the jack plate. I was borrowing a move from Steve Bailey's signature bass after I read the logic behind it (that it sends the cord right back through the strap and keeps you from setting the bass down on it's plug...)
But that's losing is appeal. I do, however, think I am going to keep the output jack on the top and not on the side. I'll just use a typical output with no jack plate.
pilotjones
03-17-2009, 03:53 PM
Yeah - many have balked at the jack plate. I was borrowing a move from Steve Bailey's signature bass after I read the logic behind it (that it sends the cord right back through the strap and keeps you from setting the bass down on it's plug...)Some people have gotten the same utility by using a strat jack plate on the back side.
Awesomenaut
03-17-2009, 03:57 PM
Some people have gotten the same utility by using a strat jack plate on the back side.
I LIKE that idea.
tZer
03-17-2009, 03:59 PM
pilotjones - I am really not all that concerned about the utility when it's all said and done. I get the exact same result with my current Jazz V and an "L" input jack.
I do, however want to keep all my stuff up top for reasons that will become clearer later. ;)
tZer
04-02-2009, 07:59 PM
I've been making slow, but steady progress and since I've been enjoying these threads:
First build thread 'Roberts JB4' (http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=509498)
Build #2: Fretless Headless 5 (http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=511633)
62 Attachment(s) 5 string warrior style started today (http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=521714)
I haven't gotten around to posting new pics of mine. But that's changing tonight!
Dropped by dad's a while back and got the body and neck blanks cut and glued.
How many shops do you know of that have lead bricks laying around?
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_ddlDqoHdCYQ/SdVnanH1V6I/AAAAAAAAG2c/87jv60N5AEw/s640/P1010020.JPG
This is a nice piece of chechen that I'll be using for the fret board. It's got really cool waterfall figuring
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_ddlDqoHdCYQ/SdVnj7wD46I/AAAAAAAAG3M/1d8uRx_DLv0/s512/P1010005-1.JPG
Most of the primary components...
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_ddlDqoHdCYQ/SdVRRmJzOmI/AAAAAAAAGx8/e3TH3NLSIhM/s640/P1010024-1.JPG
I've received my fret wire and tuning machines (Stew Mac)
Leo Quann BadAss bridge (Sigler Music via eBay)
a set of Bartolini's are on the way from a fellow TB'er.
I've gotten a lot done and still have a lot to do!
I'm especially proud of the sanding block!
I found a really easy way to make 'em, if anyone's interested... ;)
My wife needs the laptop now... MORE TO COME!
hover
04-02-2009, 08:54 PM
love the body design, can't stand the pickguard.
roberthabraken
04-03-2009, 01:03 AM
wow, that astonishing!!! I really like your fret saw jig and your sanding block! Was it easy to sand it by hand or did it take long?
I've got to make such a sawing jig myself :hyper:...
vbasscustom
04-03-2009, 07:32 AM
its usually better if you can knock it down with a hand plane, or a belt sander and finish the radiusing with the block, it takes a long time and alot of sandpaper to do it all by hand
tZer
04-03-2009, 08:14 AM
its usually better if you can knock it down with a hand plane, or a belt sander and finish the radiusing with the block, it takes a long time and alot of sandpaper to do it all by hand
This is my "Make a Radiused Sanding Block" suite of tools:
1) Router and router table with adjustable fence
2) Scrapers
3) File (to keep scrapers sharp)
NOTE: - I used the large, somewhat rounded but mostly rectangular scarper that's underneath all the others in the picture almost exclusively in the clean-up phase.
1) Mark the end of the block with the desired radius and center point
2) Set the fence on the router table so that your block's center is aligned and set the height of the router bit (1/16", straight) level with the peak of the curve.
3) Run the block through, turn it around and run it through.
4) Adjust the fence in a little (just under a 1/16"), lower the bit to meet the curve - run the block through - turn it around - run it through again.
Repeat steps 3 and 4 until you've carved out the radius.
Then I used rounded scrapers to clean up the router tracks (which was very easy).
The backside of this block was my first attempt using a rounded tip router bit. I thought that the rounded tip would be more attuned to my goal of a smooth radius, but it turned out to be worse that a straight bit.
I used 3M spray mount to adhere the sandpaper (100 grit) to the block.
There ya go! Depending on how easily your router table fence adjusts and the bit height is set, this takes relatively very little time and energy. About 20 minutes for the routing phase for mine and that's because I was being VERY cautious. The scraping took about another 20 minutes or so and was quite relaxing.
When it was all said and done and compared to other methods I've seen with swinging-arm router jigs or using an existing radius and sandpaper - this method was a breeze!
Does that make sense?
Now, sanding the radius onto the fretboard took a much longer time. I have some ideas about how I could make that process go faster - and I may even go pick up another piece of chechen (or rosewood) and try them out for the hell of it.
Can't wait to get back to work on this tonight and this weekend!
I actually like the pickguard a lot, but I know it's a very strong statement in this design and strong statements tend to draw out strong feelings.
I really like your fret saw jig and your sanding block! Was it easy to sand it by hand or did it take long?
Thanks - and thanks to you for your thread! I've been enjoying it very much!
As for the sawing jig - that was a real exercise in frustration at first as I would drill, cut, screw together THEN discover the error of my ways - disassemble, reassemble and discover NEW gremlins in the mix...
The most important aspects (to me) for a fret sawing jig are:
1) wide enough to accommodate the fret board (obviously)
2) RIGHT ANGLES!!! Making sure not only the sides that guide the (presumable square) fretboard blank are square too, but also the blade guides are nice and perpendicular AND parallel with regard to the slotting area - if that makes sense...
That was hard to do with wood - drilling - the 'little nudge here and there' that always happens when you go to screw in a critical guide piece... UGH!!!
3) the clamping mechanisms. There are actually two in mine - the one that uses the wing nut to tighten down on the shims that hold the FB from above - and the shims that I jammed in to hold the FB firmly against the side of the jig.
The sanding block - after brainstorming and tons of research here and abroad on how to create one, it occurred to me that the router and scrapers method seemed most accessible to me.
Now that I've done it - I honestly cannot think of an easier way to go about it. Using the fence and gradually worrying away the radius was almost too easy. After the routing, I could technically have gone straight to sanding and not bothered with cleaning up the router trails (they were barely there and at best were less than 1/32" ea. if that... so I'd imagine they'd have little impact on the fretboard's radius.
But cleaning up the rout tracks with the scraper was super easy and seeing a perfectly smooth radius was nice.
Sanding the fretboard - that took time and elbow grease. I estimate it took about an hour (at least) of actual sanding - spread out over 4 hours. So I'd sand for a good 4 or 5 minutes... pause... look at where I was... go back to sanding.. pause... look... sand... etc...
It's my first time, so I was probably extra cautious. I've also concluded that if I created a tray with vertical sides to guide the block and hold the fretboard, I could probably knock it down much more quickly.
By the way - I only used 1 sheet of 100 grit sandpaper to sand the entire radius. I kept knocking the dust out of the paper and cleaning it off of the FB - which I am sure helped.
By the way - the sandpaper you see in the picture above is the very same sheet I started with - and that picture is POST radiusing...
roberthabraken
04-03-2009, 10:44 AM
Thanks for all the nice info and details, very interesting :).
I think your bass design is really sweet and it's gonna be a killer :hyper:.
I myself have the problem that my fb isn't square (parallel sides), but already tapered, so I can't do it like that, although I was thinking of sticking it to a perfect square board of MDF with some tape. That'll do..
tZer
04-03-2009, 10:55 AM
Thanks for all the nice info and details, very interesting :).
I think your bass design is really sweet and it's gonna be a killer :hyper:.
I myself have the problem that my fb isn't square (parallel sides), but already tapered, so I can't do it like that, although I was thinking of sticking it to a perfect square board of MDF with some tape. That'll do..
That was my big lesson learned from last build - STAY SQUARE AS LONG AS YOU CAN! So on this build, I've made it a rule - if it doesn't have to be shaped yet, don't shape it.
I shaped my body wings on the last build way too much too early and it made it very challenging to get them glued.
roberthabraken
04-03-2009, 10:58 AM
That was my big lesson learned from last build - STAY SQUARE AS LONG AS YOU CAN! So on this build, I've made it a rule - if it doesn't have to be shaped yet, don't shape it.
I shaped my body wings on the last build way too much too early and it made it very challenging to get them glued.
That's a wise rule :D. I must say I do that myself too, but I bought the fb tapered (done in the store, probably to get more boards out of the same piece of wood :scowl:).. else I never would before it was finished..
KJung
04-03-2009, 10:59 AM
Holy cow Tony! You aren't just messing around here. VERY nice!
I kind of dig the 'updated Ric' sort of thing, that someone else mentioned, and I think the sort of 'Marcus Miller' style guard works well.
Maybe I'll get to play this sometime when I'm town when you complete it.
Very impressive. I'm impressed with myself if I get the control plate off to change the battery without causing damage to the bass or myself!
tZer
04-03-2009, 11:03 AM
Holy cow Tony! You aren't just messing around here. VERY nice!
I kind of dig the 'updated Ric' sort of thing, that someone else mentioned, and I think the sort of 'Marcus Miller' style guard works well.
Maybe I'll get to play this sometime when I'm town when you complete it.
Very impressive. I'm impressed with myself if I get the control plate off to change the battery without causing damage to the bass or myself!
Thanks, Ken! And you've nailed it on the head - updated Ric + Marcus Miller/Ric pickguard = Z Bass II.
Hopefully I'll have this one finished next time you blow through and I'd be honored if you'd give it a test run! I have a hard time letting anyone touch my first build since I am so familiar with all it's shortcomings. On this one I am working triple-time on making it more 'wart free'. I want real players to be able to pick it up, play it and say, "Yeah... That works!"
roberthabraken
07-07-2009, 03:17 PM
Just wondered how you are going along with this very interesting build? :hiding:
tZer
07-07-2009, 03:28 PM
S L O W L Y . . .
With the oppressive heat we've had here, working in the garage has been out of the question.
That, and a thousand other excu... 'er, reasons!
I have installed the truss rod - I have my pickups, bridge, tuning machines, the fretboard is slotted and glued to the neck blank - which is roughly profiled (side view) but not yet tapered (top view).
I need to make an appointment with my dad and his neighbor to get the neck cut to shape. I just don't have the right tools for that operation.
We had a few weeks of extreme heat and humidity and that kept me out of the garage. Then we took a little family vacation - there have been a few gigs and rehearsals - all of those things piled on top of each other and basically forced me to put the hole build on hold.
But the weather's broken and after a friend visited and I proudly showed him my roughed out neck - and after hearing my band asking "Where's the Z-Bass?" - I think I've run out of excuses and need to start making sawdust again!
Thanks for the inquiry! I'll get rolling again soon and post like crazy.
roberthabraken
07-07-2009, 04:21 PM
S L O W L Y . . .
With the oppressive heat we've had here, working in the garage has been out of the question.
That, and a thousand other excu... 'er, reasons!
I have installed the truss rod - I have my pickups, bridge, tuning machines, the fretboard is slotted and glued to the neck blank - which is roughly profiled (side view) but not yet tapered (top view).
I need to make an appointment with my dad and his neighbor to get the neck cut to shape. I just don't have the right tools for that operation.
We had a few weeks of extreme heat and humidity and that kept me out of the garage. Then we took a little family vacation - there have been a few gigs and rehearsals - all of those things piled on top of each other and basically forced me to put the hole build on hold.
But the weather's broken and after a friend visited and I proudly showed him my roughed out neck - and after hearing my band asking "Where's the Z-Bass?" - I think I've run out of excuses and need to start making sawdust again!
Thanks for the inquiry! I'll get rolling again soon and post like crazy.
I see / understand... well, I hope you'll have some time and good conditions and the weather on your hand and such!! I'll wait patiently :ninja:
no1likesme
07-07-2009, 05:01 PM
Green burst (white binding), White Pick Guard (scratch plate), rosewood fretboard w/White Block Inlays
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_ddlDqoHdCYQ/SZpJLm2vs0I/AAAAAAAAGfM/9iH6a6WGnb8/s720/greenWhite_rosewood.jpg
THIS
roberthabraken
07-07-2009, 05:07 PM
THIS
+1
tZer
09-12-2009, 12:14 PM
After a very long break, I'm back to the build.
Routed the truss channel...
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_ddlDqoHdCYQ/Sf-bi1Ju75I/AAAAAAAAG6M/Ju3HWwL_IEI/s512/P1010067.JPG
Installed the truss rod - dual action, spoke wheel nut from Stew Mac...
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_ddlDqoHdCYQ/Sf-bnm4YTaI/AAAAAAAAG6k/UCvqGUlrNLw/s512/P1010070.JPG
Glued on the fretboard...
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_ddlDqoHdCYQ/Sf-bt55uVqI/AAAAAAAAG7U/i5eTcCQJo1Y/s512/P1010076.JPG
Another shot of the fretboard...
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_ddlDqoHdCYQ/Sf-bvb9wihI/AAAAAAAAG7c/EGWvVzYuTfw/s512/P1010077.JPG
Then took another long break. After the 2nd break, I got antsy and decided I had to do something. Warning... don't get antsy and decide you have to do something...
I took the neck to my dad's and we both put too little thought into what we were doing - and cut too deeply into the neck when trying to trim the taper...
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_ddlDqoHdCYQ/SqvJ7Zz6bYI/AAAAAAAAHzc/-fV09Is_w1o/s640/IMG_0586.JPG
Ugh... that hurts! But this is part of how things can go. So I decided to trim both side of the neck equally deep and build it back out by laminating maple to each side.
So we created a sled to use with the table saw and began "Operation Salvage the Neck".
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_ddlDqoHdCYQ/SqvKH-iFJaI/AAAAAAAAH2Y/Hg37w0YYY88/s512/IMG_0594.JPG
Here's the newly trimmed neck...
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_ddlDqoHdCYQ/SqvKTChgGoI/AAAAAAAAH0g/8RniYNMNJRU/s512/IMG_0602.JPG
Gluing the maple lams...
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_ddlDqoHdCYQ/SqvKY-gZYmI/AAAAAAAAH3E/b8Kvq_aYUNk/s512/IMG_0606.JPG
Another view...
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_ddlDqoHdCYQ/SqvKbiRbMuI/AAAAAAAAH3Y/DHOYS1FSxnw/s640/IMG_0608.JPG
I used my router to slim the neck to the correct width...
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_ddlDqoHdCYQ/SqvQHvRzTqI/AAAAAAAAH3k/SUlYVKM3sIc/s512/IMG_0613.JPG
View from headstock end...
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_ddlDqoHdCYQ/SqvQJJ349TI/AAAAAAAAH3o/cHFTfgcbaTg/s640/IMG_0614.JPG
View from body end...
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_ddlDqoHdCYQ/SqvQKyKdnkI/AAAAAAAAH3s/OjHczRBmNns/s720/IMG_0618.JPG
The whole thing...
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_ddlDqoHdCYQ/SqvQMUdyKNI/AAAAAAAAH3w/4twnjAj3a-0/s512/IMG_0619.JPG
Later this afternoon I'll be heading back to dad's to do some cleanup trimming on the body end and I'll be in really good shape to start adding the body.
More to come!
gnasher1993
09-12-2009, 02:15 PM
It looks great with the maple binding!
tZer
09-12-2009, 02:36 PM
Thanks! - It's funny how screw ups turn into upgrades, huh?
J. Crawford
09-12-2009, 02:39 PM
I agree, maple makes it much better!
mikeyswood
09-12-2009, 11:04 PM
Did you slot through the Maple?
tZer
09-13-2009, 08:06 AM
Yes, I slotted through the maple.
tZer
09-14-2009, 12:47 PM
Now I am contemplating the type of finish to use on the fretboard. being combo maple/chechen, I am wondering if there are implications to these two woods sharing a common finish?
Anyone have any thoughts on what type of finish I should go with?
tZer
10-10-2009, 07:18 PM
It's coming along nicely. I'm able to get a few hours in here and there.
The pic below shows how the body of this thru-neck design actually sandwiches around the neck. This is critical because I am designing this instrument so that you can replace the body tops.
Because I couldn't decide on which paint job or finish style, I decided to make it so that I could switch them out at will. The tops will bolt on using 1/4" hex key bolts through the back.
The pic below shows the top removed. The neck and bottom of the body will be glued and to form the core. The tops will have t-nuts embedded to receive the bolts and secure them to the core.
I revealed a discolored spot while shaping. Not sure what to do about it. It really doesn't bother me much and there's still more sanding to be done so it may just go away...
And my very first fret! I used one of my fretboard failures to practice. I found that having the fret properly bent is pretty critical. If the wire is too shallow it just doesn't want to seat. Over bending is better - but not too much.
There's still a lot of body work to be done - neck work too, but the major shaping is done. The body still has a lot of shaping, the bolt-on system needs to be installed, and so on. I need to do the nut and other headstock stuff like carving the ease where the fingerboard meets the headstock and installing a nut of some sort...
So for now the neck is still independent of the body. Should I wait until I am closer to done before I fret it or should I take advantage of the fact that it's separate?
Don't think for a second we didn't notice that empty Guiness glass. Looks like my shop!! Kudos on the build, I like the Rick-vibe.
ctmullins
10-10-2009, 07:47 PM
Because I couldn't decide on which paint job or finish style, I decided to make it so that I could switch them out at will. The tops will bolt on using 1/4" hex key bolts through the back.
The pic below shows the top removed. The neck and bottom of the body will be glued and to form the core. The tops will have t-nuts embedded to receive the bolts and secure them to the core.
Just brilliant - I love it! You turned an "or" into an "and"!
What's your plan for bridge attachment?
pilotjones
10-10-2009, 08:34 PM
Cool idea! How many bolts for the body, and how are you doing the bridge? And controls?
tZer
10-10-2009, 10:11 PM
RE: Guinness - ah, yes. As a matter of fact I just poured a celebratory glass! For I just did a trial run on how I am going to bolt 'em together with some scraps that are the same sizes as my bottom and top and the results worked BETTER than I expected!!
Here's the scoop:
My top is 5/16" thick and my bottom is 15/16" thick.
1) I start by drilling a 1/4" hole right through both. That's the diameter of the connector bolts that are 1/4" hex key bolts that you use a 3/16" Allen wrench to tighten.
2) In the top of the top I use a 7/8" forstnet bit to bore about a 1/16" deep relief so the top of the T-Nut I insert goes flush.
3) Then I use a 5/16" bit to widen the upper 1/2 of the 1/4" original hole to receive the bottom of the T-Nut.
5) in the top side of the bottom (the side that will meet the bottom side of the top) I use an 11/32" bit to widen the original 1/4" hole 5/8" deep to receive threaded inserts.
6) I use a 2 lb. hammer to pound in the threaded insert being careful not to ding the body. When it gets almost flush, I screw in a hex bolt and finish sinking the threaded insert by hitting the bolt.
7) Then through the bottom of the bottom I widen the 1/4" hole with a 3/8" bit deep enough to all but touch the bottom of the threaded insert. This is just wide enough to allow the head of the hex key bolt to sink below the surface of the back.
That's it! Then you just screw 1/4" hex key bolt in through the back with the top aligned. It connects VERY securely and with only ONE bolt holding my test scrap pieces together, the bond was amazingly tight!
The only thing you see is the 3/8" bolt access holes on the back. They are VERY discrete - which surprised me! They are really nothing and don't take one bit away from the appearance of the instrument at all.
So I won't have to use many to make a really great join between the bottom and top. Just a few in critical extremity points and a couple in the central core zone and I am sure I'll have a VERY tight bond!
I'll be putting a thin (1/16") veneer of spruce over the top of the top to hide the T-Nuts and to provide a continuous surface to paint. This first one is going to be a fully painted number so I am not showing off any grain or anything like that. Probably a solid - but maybe one of the bursted designs... Still haven't decided that yet. But that's no biggie - if I want a different color or style, I'll just make a new top! ;-)
The bridge is a BadAss and I'll simply attach it as you would normally - right through the top. I don't expect to be changing tops like changing shirts so removing the bridge to replace the top is no biggie to me - at this point.
But I could go with a wooden bridge and ferrules through the back or bottom (like I saw anther TB'er do in another thread). That way swapping would be less unscrewing/screwing.
Or I could figure out a way to make the bridge permanently attached to the core and cut the top to fit around it...
Any thoughts?
Now to enjoy that Guinness! I am thrilled that my experiment went so well!! I have pictures on my experiment - I'll post them soon. But now... It's Guinness time!!
--tz
tZer
10-10-2009, 10:33 PM
Updated previous post with pics... Check it out!
tZer
10-10-2009, 10:42 PM
In case you wanted to see the entire thing in way too much detail, here's the photo album I've been keeping.
Recap:
34" Scale
Thru-neck (hybrid)
3 (+2) piece Maple/Chechen neck (+2 maple lams added to correct a bad cut)
Chechen Fretboard bound with maple (sort of) 24 frets
Back of body glued to neck core
Top of body bolt-on/Removable/Replaceable (Seeking Patent)
The bolt-on/removable top idea is working even better than I expected, I am please to say! Just nine little inconspicuous bolts and it feels like one solid chunk of bass badness!
Still have to do a lot of routing and sanding - but I'm very close to finishing this prototype and cannot wait to start making new tops for it! I think I am going to start with a classic sunburst - Amber-Red-Black... Haven't quite decided yet, but that's the beauty of this baby, isn't it!
Pics:
Front of top prior to covering with spruce. This shows the location of the t-nuts.
When the bolts are in, that seam closes up nicely. Not perfectly, however. I am still working on improving that.
Both the bottom and top have 2 lams of maple banding to help hide the seam and cover where the neck end comes through the body.
Note for next build - do a better job planning for the neck/body join. This is kinda ugly - but I'll be able to massage out some of that ugliness with some TLC... I hope!
Next steps - frets, routing for pups and controls, drilling for machine heads, mounting the bridge... OK, I'm not as close to finished as I'd like to be - but I am loving every minute of this build!
Thanks for looking!
Rochey6957
11-20-2009, 01:13 PM
i LOVE the way you used the actual neck as a sort of binding. From the side it just looks like a one piece fretboard-neck deal but then you turn it over and its a bound fretboard. its very unexpected and elegant.:)
tZer
11-20-2009, 01:19 PM
Rochey6957 - Thanks. That was one of those 'oops' made cool things. When we were cutting the neck taper things went quite badly and we ended up cutting too deeply into the neck. In order to recover, I decided to laminate more maple to the outer edges. The results are just as you describe - a sort of bound fb.
I really wanted to bind the fb but prior to the cutting error, I'd decided to just skip that because I was intimidated by the process of binding. I figured I have my fb slotted - radiused and didn't want to run the risk of messing it up in the binding process.
Nice how things sort of force you to do the hard work anyway, huh?
And I love how the real thing is turning out so much like the renderings!
I'd say just make the bridge a permanent device, and cut your top around it. This is a pretty awesome design. Any thoughts on making the pickups inter-changeable too?
tZer
11-20-2009, 01:33 PM
I'd say just make the bridge a permanent device, and cut your top around it. This is a pretty awesome design. Any thoughts on making the pickups inter-changeable too?
I think I am going to do just what you say with the bridge. That's sort of been the plan the whole time but I've been giving myself a LOT of flexibility in that area in case that isn't feasible. But now that it's this far along, I believe it's definitely the way to go.
As as for the pickups and electronics; I think I'm set up to 'possibly' make it so you could swap out the entire system along with the tops. General placement probably needs to remain consistent but since the tops can be designed very specifically for whatever pickups system I choose, I'd just have to make sure the cavities underneath were big enough to handle both J-style and Soapbars, etc...
That's VERY doable - as long as removing that much from the core doesn't weaken the overall stability of the thru-neck. The stability of the core is critical to this design.
But the short answer to the replaceable pups is 'very possibly'.
