Did a gig last night where the soundman had the new Heil PR 35's for vocal mics, except for our drummer who wants a wireless, so he had a Sennheiser wireless. Wow, does this mic sound impressive! Our drummer sounded like crap compared to us! Crystal clear, almost dead flat response all the way up from 40 hz, and possibly the best S sound I ever heard in a handheld. Sounds like a condenser but it's a dynamic. Our guitarist liked it so much that he's buying one. I'm still on the fence about it because even though the sound is fantastic, you really have to get right on it. I've used a 58 all my life and I like being able to sing into it off axis and still get picked up. I tend to get a little sloppy with the mic technique during a gig because I hop around a lot. The PR 35 is very unforgiving of sloppy technique.

But boy does it sound great! And with its near flat response down to 40 hz, it would probably make a really good instrument mic as well. Didn't get to try it on a bass cab but I wanted to.

Anyone else try this mic yet? If not, you really should.

Every Heil I have ever heard sounded great. Have you tried a Shure Beta57 for vocals yet? You might be plesantly surprised with those too :-)

Every Heil I have ever heard sounded great. Have you tried a Shure Beta57 for vocals yet? You might be plesantly surprised with those too :-)

Why a 57 and not a 58?

Jimmy: have you considered that despite being ubiquitous, durable and cheap, the SM57 and SM58's are not really all that great?

I ask this because you have spent a great deal of time raving about how the PR40 has replaced an SM57(or was it a 58?) in front of your amp, and that it's fan-fricken-tastic. And now you have heard a PR35 instead of a 58 on vocals and have declared it the best mic ever.

Heil make nice stuff. So do Sennheiser or AKG or Audio Technica or ElectroVoice or Neumann or Schoeps or Josephson ... Best mic ever is a pretty lofty claim. Lots of people make nice stuff, especially if the point of comparison is an SM58.

Greg, I have tried the Beta 57 and 58 many times. Don't like either. Too papery sounding in the highs, although our guitarist likes them. I've always just liked a regular 58 for onstage vocals.

Malamute, please don't insult my intelligence. The reason I've always liked the 58 is because it sounds great for my voice in a live setting, is very easy to sing into, and is indestructible. I have no illusions that it will blow away a U47. However, I have tried pretty much every vocal mic you see regularly in the field and I always wish it was a 58. The Heil, however, is the first one where I didn't miss the 58. Hey, what can I tell you? I like the 58...sorry.

I should have added the word "live" to my thread title, though. Of course I wouldn't use the Heil in a studio where they have a good condenser.

If we talk handheld , "live" vocal microphone , the KMS105 is pretty hard to beat.
You think the PR35 is better than the 105 ?

Never had the chance to compare......

Nobody in my circles is ever going to pull out a $650 live vocal mic for me ;) So no, I haven't got a chance to try a KSM 105. Looks like a great mic, but it wouldn't last a night with me. I'm pretty hard on mics. I knock them over with my upright, I trip on cables and pull them over, etc. It's one of the big reasons I probably won't get this Heil, too. Looks durable but probably wouldn't stand up to an upright like a Shure. But in the category of vocal mics I work with on stages (under $300), it's the best I've used.

Cool

Just that the tittle of the thread is ; " Best all around mic ever"
That's a very "hard" statement :eek:

I would put the 421 long before that.
Can be used as a kick , tom , bass ,vocal , horns , my sisiter...:smug:

Ya, I already addressed that I should have added "live" to the thread title. And now I'd have to add "under $300." Anyone got any more qualifiers you think I should have added to the thread title?

Mic preference is always a "hot button" issue in the pro sound world. For example, I am not a big shure fan for vocals. That contradicts about 75% of the real world. At the same time, I really like the beta57 for vocals (poor mans 105) :-) My main A2 loves the audix om5's. Easy to mix in monitors. SM58's are probably the most widely used mic for vocals in the world. Doesn't make the best. I happen to hate the beta58's, but love the beta57. Weird... There is no single mic "best" for any one person/purpose. Everyone has their own favorites. A good freind of mine, likes the 105, says everything else sounds like **** :-)) Les Claypool uses an SM57. Robin Zander uses a Beta57. Some people never stop trying new mics, looking for the ultimate mic for them. Depends on the music too. Some work better for quiet stage volume, while others work better for loud stage volume. The "best mic under 300 for live" is a myth. Have fun looking though ROFL.

I've not tried the PR35, but the PR22 sounds very good, as do the KMS105, VX10, and likely a few others. However these mics also pick up much more stage wash, and in some cases are unusable without so much EQ that the sonic benefits are gone. That's why I use the OM7 - it sounds better than the commonly used dynamics, and if it will not do the job (there's too much stage noise), nothing will. The 767a seems good as well, but I need to use it more to know for sure.

the best live mic?

hard to say, depends on the application... 421 stands high in my books.

the best live vocal mic?

Sennheiser 800 and 900 series (having tried nearly all of them, my faves are 865 and 935) are really good, as are some Audix models. Haven´t tried the PR35, but if it´s close to PR30, it should be one awesome mic... the KMS105 sounds great, but the bleed from other instruments on small stages is a serious issue. SM58´s and 57´s are durable as hell, but in all honesty sound like c**p, and the bleed sounds even more so...

the KMS105 sounds great, but the bleed from other instruments on small stages is a serious issue.
One of the advantage of the KM105 is his supercardioid patern wich doesn't pickup everything else on stage. You probably tried a KM104 , wich is cardioid.

One of the advantage of the KM105 is his supercardioid patern wich doesn't pickup everything else on stage. You probably tried a KM104 , wich is cardioid.

THe 105 may be a super, but it's certainly a wide one (hyper and super denote the type of lobes, but not the size of the lobes).

One of the advantage of the KM105 is his supercardioid patern wich doesn't pickup everything else on stage. You probably tried a KM104 , wich is cardioid.
IMO:
Standing at FOH I would like to say that a KM105 picks up a lot of the stage.

But then again the 105 is not for every voice and every setting.
But I've used it on a jazz trio where it really suited the female vocalist and the others were very much aware of stage levels.

A little off topic, but I've got to say, the Shure SM58 Beta is the best vocal mic for Female singers I've heard! She used to use a $250 AKG condensor built for live applications, but it would always feed back, and when it didn't, it was very...whispy, and not warm. I got a Beta of a TD'er (after being frustrated withe AKG) for $80, and we sound SOO much better. She is way louder at rehearsal, too!

we all have different voices, resonances, anaomolies in our voices...is it any wonder that we all have different vocal mic preferences ? At volume I like the Beta 58 on my voice. I can work with the sm-75 too. I dig the Oktava 319 in low volume settings like my acoustic band.

we all have different voices, resonances, anaomolies in our voices...is it any wonder that we all have different vocal mic preferences ?
Excellent point. I haven't had alot of experience with setting up a PA before recently and I was sound checking our singer's mic before he got there. Thought I had it sounding pretty good with no feedback and then I asked the drummer to check it. His voice made it sound tinty and it fed back immediately.
Back to topic: We seem to constantly have issues with not being able to turn the vocals up loud enough to hear ourselves and when we do, we get feedback. We don't have a sound guy and I don't try to tell the guitard how to mix the board. I just say "I can't hear myself when I sing" and he says "you can't whisper, you have to sing loud." Well when I sing loud, I lose my ability to sound half way decent.
So,,,, my question here is, do you think the Heil PR 35 would help eliminate the feedback that we get when turning up to higher volumes so I don't have to scream into the mic? If so, I'm going to buy one TODAY!

Excellent point. I haven't had alot of experience with setting up a PA before recently and I was sound checking our singer's mic before he got there. Thought I had it sounding pretty good with no feedback and then I asked the drummer to check it. His voice made it sound tinty and it fed back immediately.
Back to topic: We seem to constantly have issues with not being able to turn the vocals up loud enough to hear ourselves and when we do, we get feedback. We don't have a sound guy and I don't try to tell the guitard how to mix the board. I just say "I can't hear myself when I sing" and he says "you can't whisper, you have to sing loud." Well when I sing loud, I lose my ability to sound half way decent.
So,,,, my question here is, do you think the Heil PR 35 would help eliminate the feedback that we get when turning up to higher volumes so I don't have to scream into the mic? If so, I'm going to buy one TODAY!
Any mic will cause feedback if it's turned up loud enough. That's the nature of the beast. The PR35 is very good at rejecting it but it's not a miracle worker. Best way to do it is keep your FOH speakers in front of the band and use monitors or side fills pointing toward the band but not into any mics.

the heil stuff is really great, lots of folks are going to their camp at the moment. as stated, it definitely comes down to the individual voice and how each mic reacts to that voice.
funny how proximity used to be considered a bad thing, with over emphasis on lows being to outcome...
now, due to the nature of the beast (the marshall stack, for example)
mics are being designed for this purpose.
i'm really into the beyerdynamic stuff right now, despite having a nice selection of sennheiser mics available for free through tour support....
i find the m88 is the shizz with all 3 female vocalists i mix for,
and the heil, sennheiser and sure mics just didn't cut it for them.
i've used different condensers including the 105 as well (i find it picks up a hell of a lot of stage sound, like most condensers), but if you visit a couple hundred different places a year with different systems you might find that vocal condensers can be problematic.. one bad connection or slight short in a cable can ruin your day pretty quick. you loose an overhead on the kit, not many will notice... you loose the main vocal, everyone wants to kill you, including the artist.
i usually leave the condensers to stationary uses...
anyway, glad you found one you like jimmy!

I just bought the heil PR 35 online sight unseen unheard.
Nothing but great reviews out there for this mic. I'm going to try it out for vocals. It's also supposed to be a great instrument mic so if I don't care for it for vocals, I just bought me a nice cabinet mic. :)

the heil stuff is really great, lots of folks are going to their camp at the moment. as stated, it definitely comes down to the individual voice and how each mic reacts to that voice.
funny how proximity used to be considered a bad thing, with over emphasis on lows being to outcome...
now, due to the nature of the beast (the marshall stack, for example)
mics are being designed for this purpose.
i'm really into the beyerdynamic stuff right now, despite having a nice selection of sennheiser mics available for free through tour support....
i find the m88 is the shizz with all 3 female vocalists i mix for,
and the heil, sennheiser and sure mics just didn't cut it for them.
i've used different condensers including the 105 as well (i find it picks up a hell of a lot of stage sound, like most condensers), but if you visit a couple hundred different places a year with different systems you might find that vocal condensers can be problematic.. one bad connection or slight short in a cable can ruin your day pretty quick. you loose an overhead on the kit, not many will notice... you loose the main vocal, everyone wants to kill you, including the artist.
i usually leave the condensers to stationary uses...
anyway, glad you found one you like jimmy!
Ya, the stage is no place to be thrashing around condenser mics. BTW, may I ask who you're mixing for? Sounds pretty happening if you have a deal with Sennheiser.

BTW, I never did get a PR 35. I'm sticking with the 58. It's just better suited to what I do as a vocalist, which is to croak out rock and roll a little on the sloppy side. I'm not real good about getting back to the mic on time or singing directly into the element, so I decided against it. Our guitarist also opted not to get it. He's sticking with his Beta 57. He wants one but he's too cheap to buy one.

Ya, the stage is no place to be thrashing around condenser mics. BTW, may I ask who you're mixing for? Sounds pretty happening if you have a deal with Sennheiser.


a few of my clients have sennheiser deals, a couple that you might have heard of are blonde redhead and ok go. sennheiser is actually really good about supporting artists, i imagine bowzer could get hooked up pretty easily, just get in touch with sennheiser usa/ artist relations. they supply touring artists with mic packages.... you don't actually own the mics, but can swap them out for fresh ones when needed.
i don't make any personal endorsements, although i'm on a big beyer kick at the moment... wouldn't mind endorsing them. but i end up mixing and matching brands to taste and need.
my deal is that used to be a full time bassist, but now make my scratch mixing foh/ doing tour support, playing/recording in between.
it's the steadier paycheck at the moment.

Ya, I imagine Bowzer could, but we fly so much that we just use what's supplied so he's not going to bother with it. Honestly, though, he prefers Shures.

Beyer is a name that recently just came back into my consciousness. I've had a couple gigs where they mic'ed my cab with an M88. That's a badass mic on bass cabs. Never tried it on vocals but it probably has a killer voicing for girl singers.

BTW, is OK Go that band who did the video on treadmills all in one take? That's a hell of a band if it is.

the m88 is a killer on bass cabs, kick drum, guitar cabs and female vox. really great all around dynamic.
yes, ok go did the tread mill video.
tim is a great bass player- rocks the old hagstrom hollow body basses and a big muff through either an svt or a pair of the b200r ampegs, not unlike your setups.

Ya, I already addressed that I should have added "live" to the thread title. And now I'd have to add "under $300." Anyone got any more qualifiers you think I should have added to the thread title?

Yeah, able to stand up to being kicked around the stage by Jimmy M. night after night.

:D

I find that the better the mic, the more folks it sounds good on. The M88 is certainly a good one. (It's like the old "this speaker is great for rock, but not classical, and this one is great for classical but lousy for rock". Truth is they both suck - it's just that their problems are easier to forgive on certain types of music. One that works rightly will be good for anything.)

since i just bought a new 'backup' PA for my band, i decided that i would try to get the best mics that i could. i already have two new SM58's (and three old ones), two new SM57's (and six old ones), a new beta56A, a new beta87A, an old EV PL80 (that i bought in '74), three EV D35's (old but still great mics), an Old AKG D1000E that i bought new in '73 (i hate that one), a couple of Sennheiser 421's, a 441, and a new beta52A (for the kick). IMO, they are all very good mics, but i wanted to try what alot of people consider the best, and fortunately, i just got an incredible deal today on two brand new Neumann KMS105's in the factory boxes. i got them from a local pro sound engineer for only $600 (for the pair!). so far, the KMS105's are my personal favorite (testing them at home) but i'll have to wait til the 12th to see how they perform on the actual gig.

i just got an incredible deal today on two brand new Neumann KMS105's in the factory boxes. i got them from a local pro sound engineer for only $600 (for the pair!). so far, the KMS105's are my personal favorite (testing them at home) but i'll have to wait til the 12th to see how they perform on the actual gig.
They're my fave too for vocals. So good feedback rejection , being hyper cardioid. They do wonder on female singers with not output.

They're my fave too for vocals. So good feedback rejection , being hyper cardioid.

actually, i think that they are super cardioid, and the KMS104's are cardioid.

actually, i think that they are super cardioid, and the KMS104's are cardioid.

Your right.

My bad.

I would be totally paranoid about using one of them on a gig.

I would be totally paranoid about using one of them on a gig.

c'mon, its only a mic.

Don't worry about what it cost. Worry about what it will cost to fix :-) I don't know about Heil's costs. Shure are cheap, but so are the mics. Audix are pretty good - my SDC ($480 MAP) was only $100 to fix. Sennheiser can be pricey - a few years ago we tossed some 421s 'cause the price was so high - we just bought new ones.

A 58 works for some of the greatest singers the world has ever seen. It'll work for me. If it's possible to damage a mic, I will. I have knocked them out of the stand with my upright, dropped them accidentally, become entangled in the cable and pulled the whole thing down, and many variations of same. That's why I decided against the Heil, and that's why nobody should ever give me a $700 mic. Or even a $300 mic.

i understand you completely. i've been using SM58's for 30+ years and have never had one go down due to misuse or an accident, and at the last McCartney concert, the whole band was singing thru them. so, if its good enough for a beatle, i think its good enough for the rest of us. i did notice that Tom Petty almost always sings thru an SM57, which i actually prefer the sound of over the 58, but they are more fragile with the plastic top piece, so i always went with the 58.

BTW, way back in the mid 70's when i was working at Whittier Plaza Music, the Shure rep came in to demo a SM58. he opened up a brand new boxed one, plugged it into a PA and sang thru it, and it sounded great. then he turned the PA down and took a large nail out of his pocket, and pounded it into a 2x4 with it, turned up the PA again and it sounded exactly the same. needless to say, that made quite an impression on us on the sales floor. :)