Ok, I have a little problem. I can play by ear pretty well, and read tabs, but thats about it. I can't read music, and I know no music theory. Quite honestly, I'm so impatient I probably can't learn it. I just know what sounds right with a song, not which note I'm playing, but how it sounds. I can play a song by ear, read the tabs, and they'll almost match.

I don't see how playing by ear is bad if I'm doing covers, but me and a friend are starting a band, and playing originals, so I would have to write my own bass tabs, with no bass to play by ear to, or read tabs to. Any advice? I don't want to lose out on this since I know no music theory.

BTW, I'm 16, and make minimum wage. Self-taught is my only choice, I can't afford lessons.

Some people would kill to have decent music ears. I know I would


Learn chords, scales, and notes, and you'll communicate better with other musicians

Learn every note on the fretboard, and learn guitar chords. It'll help you a bit to know what works where. We use chord charts at my church where I play every week, and they are very easy to follow.

Some people would kill to have decent music ears. I know I would


Learn chords, scales, and notes, and you'll communicate better with other musicians


decent, but not good. i'll admit, i'm a beginner, but it's probably because my dad is a musician that i can play by ear. since i was 3, i would go to concerts with my dad, and see his band play. his pickup, that he got 2 years ago, had 4 speakers. 2 aren't blown. i lived with music my whole life, but never was patient. it kinda makes sense that my ears are better than my knowledge.....my dad was a drummer, so i saw his bands play, but was never taught anything about stringed instruments or music theory through him.

bluesy,
If you love music like it appears, I strongly recommend doing whatever it takes to learn to read (both bass and treble clef). Try not to be impatient as it takes time, but you are still young and have time. Your ear training will be a valuable asset as well. I've known musicians who could read like crazy, but couldn't play Happy Birthday without sheet music (I'm not kidding!!)

One of my best friends, a guitarist whom I've played with most of the last thirty five years, used to ask me to teach him to read, but when it came time to do so, he always had somewhere to go, or another excuse for ducking out. In later years, he would ask me, "How come you always get called to play with [insert major artist name], and do record sessions?" My answer: "Cause I can read".

It's obviously not a requirement to be a successful musician, but it sure helps your understanding of whats going on around you, and speeds up the process in many situations.

I can't read music either. It all looks like Japanese to me

Ok, I have a little problem. I can play by ear pretty well, and read tabs, but thats about it. I can't read music, and I know no music theory. Quite honestly, I'm so impatient I probably can't learn it. I just know what sounds right with a song, not which note I'm playing, but how it sounds. I can play a song by ear, read the tabs, and they'll almost match.

I don't see how playing by ear is bad if I'm doing covers, but me and a friend are starting a band, and playing originals, so I would have to write my own bass tabs, with no bass to play by ear to, or read tabs to. Any advice? I don't want to lose out on this since I know no music theory.

BTW, I'm 16, and make minimum wage. Self-taught is my only choice, I can't afford lessons.

I was in the same boat about 5 or 6 months ago. I had a good ear, good sense of different
rhythms, and was good at composing but had no clue what it all meant in the language of
theory. I started getting lessons to prepare myself for my music school audition. One thing
that I've learned is that it's not nearly as hard as I thought it was. I'm not saying that I know
everything about theory but I know quite a bit more than a lot of my other musician friends.
Just take your time and figure it out in stages. Don't try to skip ahead because it will only
confuse you. Start by learning the major scale all over the neck. After you know the major
scale in and out you will have a lot of the work done. From there it's all pretty much just
pieces or alterations of the major scale.

Good luck. PM me if you have any specific questions and I'll try to answer them the best I
can with what I know so far.

Check the link in my sig. Everything you need to know is in there.

Who cares. Neither can Paul McCartney. It doesn't really matter when it comes to playing bass or guitar.

I learned quite a bit from the book " the complete idiots guide to music theory". Helped me understand basics that are in turn helping me with my current lessons. Learning to read standard notation will be surprisingly easy, learning to sight read well is what takes lots of practice, that is to be able to read and play a piece of music pretty much the way you pick up and read a newspaper, those guys are gonna get lots of work.

The cool thing is that your already able to have fun with your intrument , so now you can take your time learning theory/reading. For myself as a begginer Im having to be very patient as I cant really do anything well yet. I think youll find your studys enlightening and adding to the fun your already having.......can you tell Im jealous. :hmm:

There are SO many FREE resources on the internet, library, people in jams, that you can pick up more information if you apply yourself.
I have ADD and am really undisciplined, but have a good ear. If I didn't, I would get another hobby, but your ears will only take you so far. I am learning with books, net, and TV, etc. to fill in the gaps. You have to understand how the neck works, and WHY it works, in order to progress.
Take advantage of all the free stuff that you can.
Good luck.

S.

I've played by ear for over 40 years.It's never been a problem.There's never been a song I couldn't learn to play in a very short time.This is strictly my opinion but,to me,players who play by ear play with more imagination.It really depends on what your goals are to how much you want to learn.

I can't read music to any useful level either. Even if I could interpret all the notation, I'm not sure I can read fast enough to be able to do what some of my friends can do which is: to be able to sit down with a piece of sheet music and play it straight away, having never heard the piece before!

I find it really frustrating if I come up with a bass riff that I like and then I forget it. :hmm:

What I do is, I always have something ready to record what I play before I forget it. Then, because I can play by ear pretty well, I can just refer back to the recording. It doesn't have to be super hi-fi or anything - just so I can hear it back. Even the voice recorder on my cellphone is okay. Eventually, I remember them anyway after a few practices! :)

People will rattle off a list of famous players who can't read either. That has nothing to do with your personal situation. You are trying to improve as a well rounded musician and bassist and don't let anyone talk you out of that.

Also, people will talk about creativity and feel and groove. That is all about the player, and his/her theoretical knowledge will, in no way, hurt that. I think it's great that a 16 year old bassist is trying to learn to read---keep it up!! Learn as much as you can and don't let anyone hold you back.

Check the link in my sig. Everything you need to know is in there.




+100

bluesy, definitely click the link in Stumbo's sig. It is a gold mine of information and the answer to your questions is to be found there.

Frankly, if you're looking for some shortcut or secret that will bestow upon you the abilities that you desire, you won't find it. Only years of practice using well established methods will make you the musician you want to be. Click the link and get started.

I've played by ear for over 40 years.It's never been a problem.There's never been a song I couldn't learn to play in a very short time.This is strictly my opinion but,to me,players who play by ear play with more imagination.It really depends on what your goals are to how much you want to learn.

My story too. I can use chord charts when I'm stuck, but, in 40 years of playing in Blues, Soul, and Rockabilly bands, I've never had a problem learning songs. Did I try to learn how to read? Yes, but I just could'nt do it, and playing by ear was so much easier and faster. I've played in horn bands where the horn guys could'nt play a lick without a chart, and , even then, it sounded so stiff and mechanical. I used to ask them if they ever listen to the recordings and their reply was usually, " Why?" If you can learn to read, by all means do it. But having good ears and a sense of rhythm has never failed.

bluesy,
If you love music like it appears, I strongly recommend doing whatever it takes to learn to read (both bass and treble clef). Try not to be impatient as it takes time, but you are still young and have time. Your ear training will be a valuable asset as well. I've known musicians who could read like crazy, but couldn't play Happy Birthday without sheet music (I'm not kidding!!)

One of my best friends, a guitarist whom I've played with most of the last thirty five years, used to ask me to teach him to read, but when it came time to do so, he always had somewhere to go, or another excuse for ducking out. In later years, he would ask me, "How come you always get called to play with [insert major artist name], and do record sessions?" My answer: "Cause I can read".

It's obviously not a requirement to be a successful musician, but it sure helps your understanding of whats going on around you, and speeds up the process in many situations.its been said a million times,and i guess that's because it's true..........i would add that a good reader knows how to transpose on the fly and the way to learn that is to start at the same time as you learn to read......i found that once i got to a decent reading level that going back to whole notes again was not much fun

Who cares. Neither can Paul McCartney. It doesn't really matter when it comes to playing bass or guitar.

Right. Tell that to John Patitucci, Jonny Greenwood, or Julian Bream.

Jeez. Only on a bass or guitar forum would you find so much energy being expended on defending the positive value of ignorance, or arguing for the uselessness of actual knowledge.

I've played by ear for over 40 years.It's never been a problem.There's never been a song I couldn't learn to play in a very short time.This is strictly my opinion but,to me,players who play by ear play with more imagination.It really depends on what your goals are to how much you want to learn.

I don't mean to pick on you, but I really wish people would just let go of the idea that knowing how to read is in any way opposed to being able to play by ear. I know a lot of musicians who do both very well indeed, and oddly enough, they have tended to be what I consider the best musicians overall.

I don't mean to pick on you, but I really wish people would just let go of the idea that knowing how to read is in any way opposed to being able to play by ear. I know a lot of musicians who do both very well indeed, and oddly enough, they have tended to be what I consider the best musicians overall.


No offense taken. And I was in no way trying to imply that people who read were not good musicians or had no imagination what so ever.All I was trying to get across is the fact that just because a person can only play by ear doesn't mean thay can't be a very good musician.But if your goals are higher,reading is a necessity.

Your ear is your best tool, but it always helps to read music. I would force yourself to find the patience and sit down and study. It will only help you in the long run.

No offense taken. And I was in no way trying to imply that people who read were not good musicians or had no imagination what so ever.All I was trying to get across is the fact that just because a person can only play by ear doesn't mean thay can't be a very good musician.But if your goals are higher,reading is a necessity.

I hear you.:cool:

No offense taken. And I was in no way trying to imply that people who read were not good musicians or had no imagination what so ever.All I was trying to get across is the fact that just because a person can only play by ear doesn't mean thay can't be a very good musician.But if your goals are higher,reading is a necessity.

Why can't more people think like this? Always good to see a humble guy.

OP, get a teacher and start looking up sites on the internet.

If you don't spend every ounce of effort you can on developing your ears, you are doomed to be a hack. One of the ways you can improve your ears is by studying ear training with a private teacher or in classes. Reading music is integral to that type of study, meaning that as you improve your reading, you will also improve your ear through sight-singing, dictation, transcription, sight-reading, etc.

All that said, being able to play what you hear is an essential skill for bassists that can be improved independent of notation. As a kid, I sang in a children's choir that learned everything by rote and sang from memory. Later, after piano and french horn lessons, I started bass at age 13. On bass, I used no notation, even though I could read.

At first, I learned a few songs from friends, and then started figuring out songs from recordings. LP's, 45s, and AM radio were my constant companions when I practiced. I often sat in my Mother's kitchen, listening to the radio trying to play everything I heard, no matter what it was. By the time I was 16, I could play the bass lines note for note on every song on a half-dozen Beatles albums and several Rolling Stones, Beach Boys, Kinks, and Byrds LP's as well (guess I should add a Kingsmen and a Ventures album, too). By then, I could pick up the bass part on just about any song on the radio before the song was half over.

It was an era of simple pop songs, but a great era for do-it-yourself ear training.

For new bassists now, things are much harder because bass playing has been raised to much a higher level of virtuousity and sophistication, and several dominant styles have exploded into thousands of sub-genres. Finding music with bass lines at a level of difficulty that is "just out of reach" is hard. Internet radio or a well-stocked ipod might be a way to start, with a device to blend your bass with the ipod/radio/audio source (protect your hearing at all times).

You must learn to play well by ear. Yet, if you don't read very very well, you will not have much studio work or get hired by a big name act, and will probably never learn to play much Jazz. Your knowledge of theory and appreciation of the inner workings of all forms of music will be limited in a profound way. Note, I don't claim you won't be able to be one helluva bassist in a lot of styles. You just won't have access to a lot of the musical knowledge and insight that you may desire.

Imagination can be limited by ignorance. It can be sparked by knowledge and experience. Imagination is not stifled by knowledge or skill, it is stifled by being devalued, suppressed and ignored. :ninja:

If you don't spend every ounce of effort you can on developing your ears, you are doomed to be a hack. One of the ways you can improve your ears is by studying ear training with a private teacher or in classes. Reading music is integral to that type of study, meaning that as you improve your reading, you will also improve your ear through sight-singing, dictation, transcription, sight-reading, etc.

All that said, being able to play what you hear is an essential skill for bassists that can be improved independent of notation. As a kid, I sang in a children's choir that learned everything by rote and sang from memory. Later, after piano and french horn lessons, I started bass at age 13. On bass, I used no notation, even though I could read.

At first, I learned a few songs from friends, and then started figuring out songs from recordings. LP's, 45s, and AM radio were my constant companions when I practiced. I often sat in my Mother's kitchen, listening to the radio trying to play everything I heard, no matter what it was. By the time I was 16, I could play the bass lines note for note on every song on a half-dozen Beatles albums and several Rolling Stones, Beach Boys, Kinks, and Byrds LP's as well (guess I should add a Kingsmen and a Ventures album, too). By then, I could pick up the bass part on just about any song on the radio before the song was half over.

It was an era of simple pop songs, but a great era for do-it-yourself ear training.

For new bassists now, things are much harder because bass playing has been raised to much a higher level of virtuousity and sophistication, and several dominant styles have exploded into thousands of sub-genres. Finding music with bass lines at a level of difficulty that is "just out of reach" is hard. Internet radio or a well-stocked ipod might be a way to start, with a device to blend your bass with the ipod/radio/audio source (protect your hearing at all times).

You must learn to play well by ear. Yet, if you don't read very very well, you will not have much studio work or get hired by a big name act, and will probably never learn to play much Jazz. Your knowledge of theory and appreciation of the inner workings of all forms of music will be limited in a profound way. Note, I don't claim you won't be able to be one helluva bassist in a lot of styles. You just won't have access to a lot of the musical knowledge and insight that you may desire.

Imagination can be limited by ignorance. It can be sparked by knowledge and experience. Imagination is not stifled by knowledge or skill, it is stifled by being devalued, suppressed and ignored. :ninja:

Words of wisdom.

Imagination can be limited by ignorance. It can be sparked by knowledge and experience. Imagination is not stifled by knowledge or skill, it is stifled by being devalued, suppressed and ignored. :ninja:

Big +1.

Even a lot of earlier great jazz musicians of the swing era couldn't read music. Sure this meant that certain bandleaders wouldn't hire them for their orchestras, but plenty of them had great careers and recorded some great stuff in bands where their ear playing and instinctual understanding of the sound of music were sufficient.

For many years now, I've been using one of my favorite chords in my own music, and it's only very recently that I learned that it's commonly known as a "diminished 7th" chord. Knowing what it's called or what notes are in it in any particular key does not help me use it. In fact a lot of times worrying about the names of chords and notes etc. gets in my way of making music.

Another +100 to Jims post. I have a similar story as I started a gospel player in a small country church. Theres a hymn book, but nobody uses it. They pretty much have most of it memorized. The first 15 min of our service was called "Devotional", which meant anyone could just break out singing a song that was on their heart. Talk about ear training. After about 7-8 yrs of that, there wasnt much of anyone I couldnt follow. Through the yrs Ive done some gigging, and even some recording, because I had good groove and satellite ears. However in wanting to expand my playing (and a few dismisses) I had to bite the bullet and sit down and try to read. Its not as hard to advance as ppl think, you just have to commit to it, just as ppl commit to slap and double thumbing. :)

Even a lot of earlier great jazz musicians of the swing era couldn't read music. Sure this meant that certain bandleaders wouldn't hire them for their orchestras, but plenty of them had great careers and recorded some great stuff in bands where their ear playing and instinctual understanding of the sound of music were sufficient.

For many years now, I've been using one of my favorite chords in my own music, and it's only very recently that I learned that it's commonly known as a "diminished 7th" chord. Knowing what it's called or what notes are in it in any particular key does not help me use it. In fact a lot of times worrying about the names of chords and notes etc. gets in my way of making music.

I think you both exaggerate and romanticize the extent to which some musicians of that era couldn't read music. Sure, you could find exceptions, but I can assure you that the ability to read was the norm for people working in those types of bands; not reading would have been a notable exception. That doesn't mean that they could all sight-read flyspecks cold at 300 bpm, but by and large, those guys could read. They usually had to, and that's how music was more often taught back then.

As for your second comment, if you KNOW this stuff, you never have to "worry" about it. It isn't knowing the names of the notes and chords that's hanging you up, it's NOT knowing them well enough. No one here advocates worrying. And in fact, knowing what it is might well help you use it one day, or at least to better understand something you're hearing. In general, it probably is not a good idea to be too definite about the uselessness of something that you don't have a good command of, because you may not be in the ideal position to judge.

With respect, I suggest you reread Jim Carr's post above, especially the last sentence.

Just to play Devil's advocate here, there are many famous musicians who did'nt read or write music, yes even JAZZ musicians. Just to name a few: Dave Brubeck, Wes Montgomery,Django Reinhardt,Erroll Garner,Chet Baker, and Irving Berlin, who only could master the black keys on a piano, and " wrote" his songs in F# and used a transcriptionist. I'm not discouraging anyone from learning how to read, but, obviously, it is not the only way to get " famous " or into a recording studio. Seemed to have worked for those fellas. :hiding:

Just to play Devil's advocate here, there are many famous musicians who did'nt read or write music, yes even JAZZ musicians. Just to name a few: Dave Brubeck, Wes Montgomery,Django Reinhardt,Erroll Garner,Chet Baker, and Irving Berlin, who only could master the black keys on a piano, and " wrote" his songs in F# and used a transcriptionist. I'm not discouraging anyone from learning how to read, but, obviously, it is not the only way to get " famous " or into a recording studio. Seemed to have worked for those fellas. :hiding:

Naturally, there's no offense intended here, but for each of those musicians, you could probably name at least five that also made it but did know theory and how to read. The cats you mentioned are among the rarities in music; the chances of any of us here reaching that level are slim to none.

...there are many famous musicians who did'nt read or write music, yes even JAZZ musicians. Just to name a few: Dave Brubeck...

Ya gotta watch out for those liner notes, they exaggerate. It was true to a degree when he was an undergrad, later he fixed it. My wife actually worked with Brubeck in the 80s--cool guy.

This is an excerpt from the PBS interview (http://www.pbs.org/brubeck/talking/daveOnCreative.htm)

Q: In terms of the creative process, what was the most important thing you learned from your teacher, Darius Milhaud? I mean, is it counterpoint? Is it polytonality ? Is it composing music in a couple of different keys? What was it that was so important, that he gave to you?

DAVE: A strict background in counterpoint and real respect for Bach. And then when it came to composition, absolute freedom. He didn't impose what he knew, or did in music at all. We were absolutely free. He never pushed his type of thinking on any of us.

Q: So when did you write "The Duke," which I gotta tell you, that is one of my favorite pieces of music. It's a complicated piece of music. Tell me about it.

DAVE: I wrote this in my head. A lot of times, when I'm driving the car, I'm beating out the rhythm on the steering wheel, which can drive Iola nuts. I was taking my son Christopher to nursery school. On the way back, I ran into the house, sat down at the piano, and got some manuscript paper and wrote it out. And I thought, boy, this is a pretty good tune. And it became a tune that a lot of other jazz musicians play. [emphasis added]

America loves the "native genius," it's part of what makes us so anti-intellectual, no? :D :D :D

I can't read music either. It all looks like Japanese to me

People can learn to read Japanese

People can learn to read Japanese

And how hard can it be, a gazillion KIDS have done it! =D

My take on it:

Learning how to read music is useful, however, it's exactly what it sounds like - reading. being able to read music will NOT automatically make your verbal (instrumental) communication any better anymore than learning to read english suddenly makes you a fluent speaker of the language - they are two entirely different realms, reading and speaking. If you can speak exceptionally well and have no interest in learning how to read, all the more power to you. Just be aware of the issues that will come along with it. All of these can be overcome, such as inability to write down your own work, but if you've got a good memory and a good ear, you may not need that. Being able to play with creativity and passion is not something that can ONLY come with learning to read, and if you feel that you're way is better then stick to it. Reading isn't a requirement to be a good musician, despite what anyone else may tell you. It's a useful tool, and I recommend it highly, but again - it's by no means required.

If you take 1 music theory 101 course at a college you will walk out with an understanding of written music and basic theory (chords, scales, modes, time signatures, intervals, very basic chord progressions)...Then if sight reading is something important to you then you can pursue it on your own from there. Honestly you can come to understand written music in a few hours, its reading it at speed that takes practice.

...although I guess being 16 this might be a little difficult, I do remember my HS having an option that let someone take a community college class for HS credit though.

Better have it and not need it than need it and not have it - Michael Angelo Batio

Well, you say you can't learn it, so just give up now.