I want to learn about the composition/analyzation of atonal music, can someone point me to the right place? Also any sound clips would be greatly appreciated as well.
:)

I thought they were calling that Free Jazz these days?

Freejazz, Avant Garde, Atonal, its really all the same and can someone help me with it?

Well, what do you want to learn? You're asking a pretty general question because, I could tell you about how to write a chord sheet out for these songs, or a lead sheet, or a score for it, or just how to actually " listen " to the Music ( hah ).

Freejazz, Avant Garde, Atonal, its really all the same and can someone help me with it?

Um, not at all. What kind of music, exactly, are you defining to be "atonal"? Webern? Ornette Coleman? Merzbow?

Haha, well the listening part would be nice. Just different techniques for composing and tips on songs/artists to listen to.

No, you don't understand what I'm saying. Asking for tips for writing music that's "atonal" is exceedingly vague, because there are streams from all genres which people call "atonal", even when they aren't, and when each piece of music has absolutely nothing to do with one another. The traditional definition of atonality is music that doesn't have any tonal center, implied or otherwise, by key relationships, non-standard modalities, etc. Here are a few ideas to look into.

Pre Schoenberg atonality/semitonality - Bartok, Stravinsky, late Scriabin
12-tone serialism - Schoenberg, Webern, Berg
Mid 20th century avant-garde (WILD stuff) - Ligeti, Penderski, Xennakis, Penderecki
60's Free Jazz - Ornette Coleman, Cecil Taylor, late John Coltrane, Pharoah Sanders
Free Improv (similar to Free Jazz) - Rare Earth, Peter Bronzmann, Evan Parker

According to the traditional definitions, usually people think of 12-tone serialism as the truest form of atonality, since all of those other things I suggested have smatterings of tonal centers here and there. I would recommend more contemporary stuff, but really, there isn't too much genuinely atonal stuff in contemporary rock/metal.

Haha, well the listening part would be nice. Just different techniques for composing and tips on songs/artists to listen to.

Do an internet search for '12-tone' music or serial music, or Schoenberg. This will give you one idea of one kind of music. If you can find the books, "A Year From Monday" and "Silence" by John Cage, this will give you an idea of some philosophy behind modern music.

Webern, Berg with Schoenberg complete the pre-WWII Vienna school of 12 Tone composition. Other composers to check out would be Edgard Varese ("Ionization" is one good example of his music) George Antheil ("Ballet Mecanique" is an excellent example). Elliot Carter should be checked out. Harry Parch, while not exactly 'atonal' is a unique composer and worth some interest.

It should be noted that the minimalist school of composition (Steve Reich, Phillip Glass, John Adams) is more the contemporay move and not at all atonal, but the music is interesting and worth noting if you are into whats going on recently. More atonal would be "Noise Music" and things of that ilk. Do an internet search, some of it is interesting lots of it is designed merely to be irritating. Of course "My Bloody Valentine" group is worth noting too, but more from the pop school of thought.

If all else fails, just read Kafka.

Perhaps have a look as schönberg's "Harmonie Lehre".
It is a big book well worth reading.
There's also a three part thing by Hindemidt-also very worth reading

(Actually, he said, as he pushed his heavily-taped glasses up his nose,):
Harmonielehre isn't an atonal theory text. It's regular tonal harmony for the most part, with a short section on the possibilities of atonality. Hindemith, too, was working from a framework of tonality, but developing new methods of understanding it. He only analyzes one atonal piece in The Craft of Musical Composition, and it's a Schoenberg piano piece. I'd recommend George Perle's Twelve-tone Tonality as a primer on serial music. As far as listening, it depends what you're looking for. As someone said above, the Second Viennese School (Webern, Berg, and Schoenberg) are a good starting point. I dig Ligeti and Varese, they're notoriously difficult listening.

These days Joe Maneri is regarded as one of the main exponents of atonal music. Here's a youtube clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pIZbgqNCyg

Ekkehard Jost's Free Jazz (Da Capo Press, 1974) has been around for a while but he does a good job of trying to get into the "whys and hows" of atonality and freedom in jazz. He covers the major figures of the 60's including Mingus, Coltrane, Ornette, Ayler, Don Cherry, Cecil Taylor, Sun Ra, etc. His musical analysis is fairly comprehensive and demystified while still being an enjoyable read.

(Actually, he said, as he pushed his heavily-taped glasses up his nose,):
Harmonielehre isn't an atonal theory text. It's regular tonal harmony for the most part, with a short section on the possibilities of atonality. Hindemith, too, was working from a framework of tonality, but developing new methods of understanding it. He only analyzes one atonal piece in The Craft of Musical Composition, and it's a Schoenberg piano piece. I'd recommend George Perle's Twelve-tone Tonality as a primer on serial music. As far as listening, it depends what you're looking for. As someone said above, the Second Viennese School (Webern, Berg, and Schoenberg) are a good starting point. I dig Ligeti and Varese, they're notoriously difficult listening.

That is correct , but both wil give one good tools to understanding it.

Thank you everyone, I've been kinda jaded lately and wanted to learn about something completely new and foreign to me. Thank you so much, now it looks like I've got some homework to do.

Thank you everyone, I've been kinda jaded lately and wanted to learn about something completely new and foreign to me. Thank you so much, now it looks like I've got some homework to do.

Well hold on a second, Cowboy. What is your diatonic harmony studies background encompass? If you're not sharp as a whip in "DH," you might want to focus on that before you dab in to the world of atonal. Also some atonal techniques involve matrices and some heavy-duty mathematics. So, it's best to build a solid foundation first.

No, you don't understand what I'm saying. Asking for tips for writing music that's "atonal" is exceedingly vague, because there are streams from all genres which people call "atonal", even when they aren't, and when each piece of music has absolutely nothing to do with one another. The traditional definition of atonality is music that doesn't have any tonal center, implied or otherwise, by key relationships, non-standard modalities, etc. Here are a few ideas to look into.

Pre Schoenberg atonality/semitonality - Bartok, Stravinsky, late Scriabin
12-tone serialism - Schoenberg, Webern, Berg
Mid 20th century avant-garde (WILD stuff) - Ligeti, Penderski, Xennakis, Penderecki
60's Free Jazz - Ornette Coleman, Cecil Taylor, late John Coltrane, Pharoah Sanders
Free Improv (similar to Free Jazz) - Rare Earth, Peter Bronzmann, Evan Parker

According to the traditional definitions, usually people think of 12-tone serialism as the truest form of atonality, ...

Actually Schonberg didn't like the term "atonal" and in his writings insisted that his music was "pantonal" - that is, it was in all keys rather than 'none'...:eyebrow:

There is a sense in which Debussy's "L'Apres Midi d'une Faune" is the first "atonal" piece as its shifts about and doesn't ever settle on a particular key - so in that sense it has no key - although it sound quite "tonal" ...

Sconberg was intrested in "serial" music - 12-tone rows etc. as a method of compsition.

Mahler's 9th symphony was pushing tonality to its limits and Schonberg who knew Mahler, and at first copied his style in "Gurrelieder" - took this further to composing music without reference to key centres..

Schonberg's most extreme example - if you want to hear something wild - is "Pierrot Lunaire" ...:eek:

Two composers who took this further in the late 20thC are Stockhausen and Messiaen ....suggest listening to : "Gesang Der Junglinge" and "Turangalila Symphonie"...?

Mahler's 9th symphony was pushing tonality to its limits and Schonberg who knew Mahler, and at first copied his style in "Gurrelieder" - took this further to composing music without reference to key centres..

Schonberg's most extreme example - if you want to hear something wild - is "Pierrot Lunaire" ...:eek:

Two composers who took this further in the late 20thC are Stockhausen and Messiaen ....suggest listening to : "Gesang Der Junglinge" and "Turangalila Symphonie"...?

Hey, Bruce-
Do you have a specific/favourite recording/conductor/orchestra/label/etc...for the above works?

These days Joe Maneri is regarded as one of the main exponents of atonal music. Here's a youtube clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pIZbgqNCyg


Maneri is also micro-tonal.

Hey, Bruce-
Do you have a specific/favourite recording/conductor/orchestra/label/etc...for the above works?


For the Turnagalila, I like the Concertgebouw conducted by Riccardo Chailly

http://www.amazon.com/Messiaen-Turangal%C3%AEla-Symphonie-Olivier/dp/B00008HCEZ/ref=pd_cp_m_2?pf_rd_p=413864001&pf_rd_s=center-41&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B000004214&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=00KWEHVSHWFS18VP023N

- the others it doesn't matter so much, too many great versions of the Mahler to have just one - the best Stockhausen recordings are only available from the official Stockhausen website :

http://www.stockhausen.org/

Nowhere else!! :eek:

The problem with Schoenberg I find is that its too much "eye music". You can learn a lot from studying the score, but the serialism he employs for atonal effect often doesn't serve an emotional purpose. The most succesful atonality, in my opinion, exists both as an intellectual device and an emotional one. Pendereski and Ligeti were masters of this. If you want something cool to check out, check out Ligeti's Requiem and Pendereski's Threnody to the Victims of Hiroshima. You'll **** your pants.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzOb3UhPmig
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBT__4ldjAs&feature=related

...too many great versions of the Mahler to have just one.

I was afraid of that.
Thank you for the assistance...they're on my list!

FWIW-
Charles Ives.

I mean, c'mon..."The Gong On The Hook & Ladder" was composed many years before the '60s Free Jazz/New Thing movement.

I have not gone through the whole thread, so if someone else have already mentioned this, sorry... But, one great reference is by Joseph Straus. The full reference is:

"Introduction to Post-Tonal Theory." Prentice-Hall, 1990; revised 3rd ed. 2004.

This is a pretty well-written text at the introductory level presenting the theory behind atonal music with lots of examples. If you are comfortable with working in mod 12, you should go through it quite fast. Unfortunately, the book does not come with sound clips for copyright purposes. When I asked this to Prof. Straus few years ago via e-mail, he told me that most college libraries with a music program would have the material referred to in the textbook.

Hope this helps...

Cheers,

Alper

I want to learn about the composition/analyzation of atonal music, can someone point me to the right place? Also any sound clips would be greatly appreciated as well.
:)

(Actually, he said, as he pushed his heavily-taped glasses up his nose,):
Harmonielehre isn't an atonal theory text. It's regular tonal harmony for the most part, with a short section on the possibilities of atonality. Hindemith, too, was working from a framework of tonality, but developing new methods of understanding it. He only analyzes one atonal piece in The Craft of Musical Composition, and it's a Schoenberg piano piece. I'd recommend George Perle's Twelve-tone Tonality as a primer on serial music. As far as listening, it depends what you're looking for. As someone said above, the Second Viennese School (Webern, Berg, and Schoenberg) are a good starting point. I dig Ligeti and Varese, they're notoriously difficult listening.


Sorry ABD Clark, but I am certain you meant to cite Perle's "Serial Composition and Atonality, An Introduction to the Music of Schoenberg, Berg, and Webern." The 6th Edition is the current one, IIRC.

I was a pupil and friend of George Perle's in the 1980s. The book you cite is not a book about serialism or atonality, it is a book about George's own harmonic language and the theoretical system he redrives it from based on the alignment of interval cycles to form an array of harmonic entities, which can function as chords in music based on the (12-tone tonality) system. It really has nothing to do with the tone row or ordering and everything to do with reimagining the chromatic scale as the source of a vast and complex harmonic language, based on inversional symmetries and the alighment of multiple interval cycles.

I had the priviledge of writing software for George and also of witnessing his intense and brilliant musicianship. He is one of the great artists of our time, IMHO. I have never met a finer musician. :cool:

I have not gone through the whole thread, so if someone else have already mentioned this, sorry... But, one great reference is by Joseph Straus. The full reference is:

"Introduction to Post-Tonal Theory." Prentice-Hall, 1990; revised 3rd ed. 2004.

This is a pretty well-written text at the introductory level presenting the theory behind atonal music with lots of examples. If you are comfortable with working in mod 12, you should go through it quite fast. Unfortunately, the book does not come with sound clips for copyright purposes. When I asked this to Prof. Straus few years ago via e-mail, he told me that most college libraries with a music program would have the material referred to in the textbook.

Hope this helps...

Cheers,

Alper

+1

This is a good place to turn once you have had a minimum of 4 semesters of theory, including 2 semesters of harmony, 1 semester of counterpoint (2 is better), and 1 semester of form & analysis. I might add that without ear training, keyboard, and extensive listening to the repertoire leading to the music of the late Romantics and the 20th Century, as well as the music covered by Strauss's work, you will not get much out of that book. A Survey of Western Music History is also very much required.

I have used that text in teaching at SFSU and Columbia. I have seen how little students grasp when they are not ready for this work. I am not one for slamming doors in peoples faces, but here is my advice.

Make yourself worthy. Go listen to the music and read music history. Study piano and learn harmony, counterpoint, ear training, etc. By all means listen to as much 20th and 21st Century post-tonal Jazz, symphonic, chamber, and electronic music as you can. Go to contemporary concerts of all kinds.

Understanding and appreciating the "classical" music of the 20th century is something that one in every 10,000 people ever bother to do, but to me it is worth it. Is it worth it to you? :eek: :cool:

The problem with Schoenberg I find is that its too much "eye music". You can learn a lot from studying the score, but the serialism he employs for atonal effect often doesn't serve an emotional purpose. The most succesful atonality, in my opinion, exists both as an intellectual device and an emotional one. Pendereski and Ligeti were masters of this. If you want something cool to check out, check out Ligeti's Requiem and Pendereski's Threnody to the Victims of Hiroshima. You'll **** your pants...

I have 2 words for you: Pierrot Lunaire. :D

If all else fails, just read Kafka.

Priceless. How do I sig this?

The problem with Schoenberg I find is that its too much "eye music". You can learn a lot from studying the score, but the serialism he employs for atonal effect often doesn't serve an emotional purpose. The most succesful atonality, in my opinion, exists both as an intellectual device and an emotional one. Pendereski and Ligeti were masters of this. If you want something cool to check out, check out Ligeti's Requiem and Pendereski's Threnody to the Victims of Hiroshima. You'll **** your pants.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzOb3UhPmig
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBT__4ldjAs&feature=related

Wow those were f-ing crazy! :eek:

Actually Schonberg didn't like the term "atonal" and in his writings insisted that his music was "pantonal" - that is, it was in all keys rather than 'none'...:eyebrow:

Schonberg's most extreme example - if you want to hear something wild - is "Pierrot Lunaire" ...:eek:



I have 2 words for you: Pierrot Lunaire. :D

I already said that!! :p

(see above)

I already said that!!...

Yes, however, I was addressing the "Augenmusik!" (eye music) accusation--which I am surprised to hear from the younger generation--I thought reciting that tired cant was confined to the New York Times critics of the 1970's and 1980's. To call Schoenberg's music unexpressive is ludicrous. A listener may find it unbearable, but unexpressive is an empty assessment, IMHO. Though I find much of Tchaikovsky's music unbearable, I must admit it seems quite "expressive" in a soggy maudlin sort of way.

Since it hasn't been mentioned, I'd also suggest Five Pieces for Orchestra (Fünf Orchesterstücke, Op. 16, 1909) as a very expressive work, which like Pierrot, predates the 12-tone system of the 1920s. Most new listener's find "Farben" and "Vergangenes" to be the most accessible.

BTW, I don't hear Gurre-Lieder as so much shaped by Mahler's style, except in the large choral sections, especially at the end, and perhaps the Wald-Taube lied. To me it is Wagner who was his main muse in that work. He certain proved he was a master on their level. All IMHO.

Perhaps have a look as schönberg's "Harmonie Lehre".
It is a big book well worth reading.
There's also a three part thing by Hindemidt-also very worth reading

As much I like Schöberg's theoretical writings, I must say that he deliberately stayed away from the "post-tonal" topic except for a tiny bit at the end. The "Harmonie Lehre" is a big textbook that is more interesting from the point of view of how he thought about tonal harmony, and not for learning it yourself.

In fact, if you don't know harmony solidy, as well as have a good acquaintance with a significant amount of music by Bach, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Brahms, and Wagner, you will be pretty hard pressed to grasp what Schönberg is getting at most of the time.

IMHO, it is not feasible to learn harmony by "reading a harmony book." I guess that is obvious, but one must write exercises and have them scrupulously corrected by a highly skilled teacher. One's keyboard skills and sight reading at the keyboard will be an issue. Without facility, you are pretty much doomed to crawl instead of walk. :ninja:

John Clough's programmed learning book on voice leading is not a bad way to learn some simple principles of four-part writing without a teacher--and their may be others--but most harmony books, old and new, are designed for use with that cranky expensive anachronism known as a "Music Professor." :D :D :D

As much I like Schöberg's theoretical writings, I must say that he deliberately stayed away from the "post-tonal" topic except for a tiny bit at the end. The "Harmonie Lehre" is a big textbook that is more interesting from the point of view of how he thought about tonal harmony, and not for learning it yourself.

In fact, if you don't know harmony solidy, as well as have a good acquaintance with a significant amount of music by Bach, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Brahms, and Wagner, you will be pretty hard pressed to grasp what Schönberg is getting at most of the time.

IMHO, it is not feasible to learn harmony by "reading a harmony book." I guess that is obvious, but one must write exercises and have them scrupulously corrected by a highly skilled teacher. One's keyboard skills and sight reading at the keyboard will be an issue. Without facility, you are pretty much doomed to crawl instead of walk. :ninja:

John Clough's programmed learning book on voice leading is not a bad way to learn some simple principles of four-part writing without a teacher--and their may be others--but most harmony books, old and new, are designed for use with that cranky expensive anachronism known as a "Music Professor." :D :D :D

I agree with some of this and the most important thing about the book for me is one of the things you point out and for which I consider it such a valuable tool- " how he thought about tonal harmony".
Seeking out the pieces that are mentioned in the book ( of course a deeper acquientance with certain composers works won't hurt either but...) should not be too much to ask when talking about studying music thoroughly,I think.
It goes without saying that from reading a book alone will not teach you anything in music but being granted an insight into schönbergs' approach as is the case here has helped me a great deal when I studied harmony etc.(an ongoing affair). Doing written exercises, analyzing pieces , transcribing and then analyzing etc are all things I consider important. Having a good instructor helps too.

BTW, I don't hear Gurre-Lieder as so much shaped by Mahler's style, except in the large choral sections, especially at the end, and perhaps the Wald-Taube lied. To me it is Wagner who was his main muse in that work. He certain proved he was a master on their level. All IMHO.


I agree that it sounds more like Wagner, but I was mainly pointing out that Sconberg and Mahler knew each other and the younger man was almost like a student of Mahler's who was promoted and encouraged...?

Schonberg was at Mahler's funeral and wrote a piece inspired by the bells at this event - also he knew about Mahler's 9th Symphony and what it was about.

So I was suggesting that Mahler's 9th Symphony was legitimately one of the first "atonal" works, as Mahler pushes chromaticism and dispenses with a single central tonality to the 9th, which was the main unifying principle of the Symphony up to that point...?

Schonberg saw Mahler's 9th as the ultimate expression of "tonality" - but also where it broke down and set him on the course of establishing a new system. So I was saying that Mahler's 9th is the starting point for a study of "Atonal Music"...?

Sorry ABD Clark, but I am certain you meant to cite Perle's "Serial Composition and Atonality, An Introduction to the Music of Schoenberg, Berg, and Webern." The 6th Edition is the current one, IIRC.

I was a pupil and friend of George Perle's in the 1980s. The book you cite is not a book about serialism or atonality, it is a book about George's own harmonic language and the theoretical system he redrives it from based on the alignment of interval cycles to form an array of harmonic entities, which can function as chords in music based on the (12-tone tonality) system. It really has nothing to do with the tone row or ordering and everything to do with reimagining the chromatic scale as the source of a vast and complex harmonic language, based on inversional symmetries and the alighment of multiple interval cycles.

I had the priviledge of writing software for George and also of witnessing his intense and brilliant musicianship. He is one of the great artists of our time, IMHO. I have never met a finer musician. :cool:

Yes. Yes, I did. Was just speaking with a friend about them, and confused the two titles. My bad. Sorry, everyone.

I agree that it sounds more like Wagner, but I was mainly pointing out that Sconberg and Mahler knew each other and the younger man was almost like a student of Mahler's who was promoted and encouraged...?

Schonberg was at Mahler's funeral and wrote a piece inspired by the bells at this event - also he knew about Mahler's 9th Symphony and what it was about.

So I was suggesting that Mahler's 9th Symphony was legitimately one of the first "atonal" works, as Mahler pushes chromaticism and dispenses with a single central tonality to the 9th, which was the main unifying principle of the Symphony up to that point...?

Schonberg saw Mahler's 9th as the ultimate expression of "tonality" - but also where it broke down and set him on the course of establishing a new system. So I was saying that Mahler's 9th is the starting point for a study of "Atonal Music"...?

Mahler's 9th is certainly a fascinating work. I can't speak about Schönberg's attitude toward it. I can say that Schönberg had composed post-tonal music several years before Mahler completed his 9th symphony.

Mahler: Symphony No. 9 in D major (1910)
Schönberg: String Quartet No. 2 in F sharp minor, Op. 10 (1908)

It is well-known that Mahler was a champion of the young Schönberg, but they often fought about Brahms, Wagner, etc. When Schönberg brought him the score of his Quartet No. 1 in D minor, Op. 7 (1905), Mahler was shocked by it.

In "Style and Idea" (University of California Press, Los Angeles, 1984, pg. 42), Schönberg quotes Mahler as saying, "I have conducted the most difficult scores of Wagner; I have written complicated music myself in scores of up to thirty staves and more; yet here is a score of not more than four staves, and I am unable to read them." N.B., this is five or six years before Mahler wrote the his 9th.

I am dredging up all this "Wiener Schnitzel" to make the point that it can be argued Mahler's 9th was as influenced by Schönberg as Schönberg was by Mahler, if not more so. All IMHO. YMMV, etc.

Assuming a student with good keyboard skills and a solid grasp of tonal music theory, a piece picked for beginning a study of post-tonal music would need to meet several criteria, IMHO. It must be brief, relatively simple, and well-studied by others. Might I suggest that Webern's Fünf Sätze (five movements) for String Quartet, Op.5, and Schönberg's Sechs kleine Klavierstücke (six little piano pieces), Op. 19 meet these criteria better than Mahler's 9th?

The Strauss book is a good resource, as is the Perle (both cited above), and I would include "Analytic Approaches to Twentieth-Century Music" by Joel Lester, which I have used in teaching a class with some success. "Twentieth Century Music" by Elliot Antokoletz gives an excellent survey, if you can find it. There are others, but nothing substitutes for good teachers, or better yet, a good curriculum.

Tschüss!

I do think there is sense in which the older more experienced Mahler, was inspired by the younger generation of Viennese composers - and I think Schonberg's quartet's are interesting - I have recordings and there is an interesting orchestration of No.2 which I have seen paired with Mahler at concerts.

I like Mahler so much as I feel his symphonies are actually telling me something - it's not just musical abstraction - but actually reflects his philosophy on life and communicates that in a way that words cannot...?

So - Schonberg's quartet has "normal" movements and then an atonal finale - which has been taken to be an interpretation of "what lies beyond" as a response to the death of a friend - hence atonality is associated with "other worldliness"....?

I can see how this would appeal to Mahler who was always pushing the sound palette of the orchestra - using things like cowbells to express the spirit rising to heaven, above the mountains of Austria...

So - to me Quartet No2 is not really an atonal work - but is actually much more like Mahler's work - where you have a tonal framework - but there are parts where tonality breaks down in an attempt to express what we cannot speak of ....?

I see this thread carried on in Messiaen - climaxing in his final orchestral masterpiece, which translates as "Visions of the Hereafter".

Oh and I forgot to say that of course everybody should just listen to Mahler's 9th Symphony as it is a wonderful piece of music and stunning in the concert hall - the pinnacle of what Mahler had been doing with the symphony and orchestral music since the mid 1880s - each symphony is a true natural progression from the last - in fact there is an argument to say that 5,6 and 7 are just one large piece of music - but as it reaches that summit of what you can do with the tonal structures of the 19th C - it is also the true birth of atonality and 20th C music.

This gestation is not just within the timescale of its composition - you can see this happening in say, the 4th Symphony - which ends in the "wrong" key or in the quiet still moments with cowbells of the 6th and 7th where time and harmony break down.

stan kenton ftw

Hi

Can I recommend 20th Century Harmony by Persicetti.

It's really very good - it goes through all sorts of different types of harmony, really covering just about everything and putting everything in context. It's written by a composer too - so it's all written with the object of actually using it rather that being a kind of musicological discussion.

Joseph Straus ... "Introduction to Post-Tonal Theory." Prentice-Hall, 1990; revised 3rd ed. 2004.


Excellent book, +1.
I'd also add Charles Wuorinen's Simple Composition and John Rahn's Basic Atonal Theory to the list

...and I agree that all three are probably way too deep for the OP if he doesn't already have a solid background in music theory!

These days Joe Maneri is regarded as one of the main exponents of atonal music.
Maneri is also micro-tonal.

I think it's more accurate to say that "These days Joe Maneri is regarded as one of the main exponents of micro-tonal music" since he hasn't written or played anything in Equal Tempered tuning in several decades.

(fwiw, I studied composition with Joe when I was in grad school, and he sat in with my band a few times as well. Wonderful wonderful human being, brilliant musical mind, and he can make an alto sax weep, sing, and sigh like no one I've ever heard.)

It's a standing joke amongst Jazz DB players that they are "inadvertent microtonalists" ...:p

listen to as much of the sun ra arkestra as you can get your hands on..

good luck finding it in the local record store- i went to 4 before turning to itunes for it.

I noticed from the latest UK JazzWise magazine - that Jerry Dammers is touring an orchestra/big band that is attempting to play material from Sun Ra's Arkestra.

Yes - that Jerry Dammers who was in the Specials !! :eek:

So he turned down a lucrative tour with the re-formed Specials - to play the least commercial material you could imagine....:eyebrow:

I don't know if it was mentioned or anything yet, but get into the concept of 12-tone-row.

PM me and I'll be glad to shoot you with some details about it.

I studied 12 tone rows in the 1970s and at that time a friend (who was a mathematical genius incidentally) wrote a short piece dedicated to me, based on a 12-tone row, called "Bass Solo"...

The title was ironic! ;)

Check out Schoenberg's "Serenade."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNLQ2jDAkWo&feature=PlayList&p=32FB8A9EF50287F4&index=0&playnext=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7meqD1NpCXU&feature=PlayList&p=32FB8A9EF50287F4&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=1

I'm not sure if you would consider it atonal or not, but if you want to hear some pretty wild stuff coming from far left field, check out Eugene Chadbourne on the electric rake. The sound sometimes borders on the scatological, to be blunt, but if you want to hear something unique, his performance will not disappoint. He's got other stuff too that veers towards more traditional fare. You can you tube him. Also, maybe John Cage?