What do you all think about him? I´ve downloaded some Bass Extremes mp3s and the video from http://www.ampeg.com and i think he is pretty cool

I heard him play at a Wooten Clinic about 4 months ago. He was this surprised guest..basically him and Victor jammed for over an hour. I was blown away by his playing. I had only heard his name before. His playing was very fluid, musical and technically great. I look forward to getting a fretless...

I have looked for CDs by him..I have found that he made at least two:

Dichotomy
Evolution

I don't know where to get them, but I would love to. I think he is most known for doing a lot of session work for various big names..not necessarily for being a long standing member of any group-though I may be wrong.

I've seen Bailey's cds at http://www.audiophileimports.com
Bailey may gig a lot...he does seem to be "under-recorded", though.

i know he's done stuff with greg bissonette and dizzy gillespie in the past (i doubt it was on the same recording though...but damn that would be interesting!! :) )

yeah i saw their clinic here a few years ago...their styles work so well together because they're so different...vic is more rhythmic and syncopated (obviously LOL) and steve's is more melodic...he never did any slap during the clinic, and he used far more chords than vic...

Steve also talked about an ongoing debate he had with Jaco about artificial harmonics...Jaco preferred laying his thumb over the harmonic and plucking it with his index. Steve preferred laying his index over it and plucking it with his middle...and every time he tried to prove why it was more effective, Jaco would always prove him wrong...
but one day Steve thought stump him for sure...
he told Jaco "if you use your index finger, you could lay your whole finger across several strings of harmonics, and strum downward with your middle finger to play a harmonic chord...and if u use your thumb you can't do that..." (which is true...you can't...)

and u know what Jaco's response was? "I don't NEED to do that!!"

I would be interested to hear when this conversation took place - has Steve Bailey been around that long? His approach is the typical rock guitarist approach to artificial harmonics and this is no suprise to me as a lot of his solos sound like this. I do like his chordal work and he obviously has a phenomenal fretless technique, but some of his high register distorted solos sound like typical heavy metal guitar solos to me and I don't really like this - I keep thinking this isn't a bass solo as such.

Originally posted by Bruce Lindfield
I would be interested to hear when this conversation took place - has Steve Bailey been around that long
Yeah, he has been around quite a while. I remember seeing him with Maynard Ferguson on the green in New Haven, CT in about 1984, so you know he'd been on the scene for a while at that point.. he was playing a white 5-string fretless if my memory serves me (which it sometimes does, believe it or not!)
I saw him do a clinic with Victor Wooten in '95 (John Turner was there too.) Bailey was pretty amazing.. he was pulling off some pretty extreme stuff with flawless intonation on 6-string fretless, and telling jokes at the same time! Plus, he's like 3 1/2 feet tall.. his bass is almost as big as him..

yeah he didn't say when it took place, but dave's right...he's pretty damn short!!!

[i]"...but some of his high register distorted solos sound like typical heavy metal guitar solos to me and I don't really like this - I keep thinking this isn't a bass solo as such. [/B]

Bruce-
It isn't a "bass solo" as such? That's "OK", ain't it? :D
I'm over hearing bass solos that sound like "bass solos".
One reason why Jaco continues to blow me away is 'cause his solos aren't "bass solos" as such.
...dammit, I've mentioned "solos" in ONE post about as often as ANY post of yours! :D


BTW-
Bailey has been around awhile.

Originally posted by Dave Siff

I saw him do a clinic with Victor Wooten in '95 (John Turner was there too.) Bailey was pretty amazing.. he was pulling off some pretty extreme stuff with flawless intonation on 6-string fretless, and telling jokes at the same time! Plus, he's like 3 1/2 feet tall.. his bass is almost as big as him..

yeah, i remember that.
bailey has played my fretlesses on numerous occasions - he has mentioned to me and bill conklin that he likes them a lot.

btw, steve bailey recorded on jethro tull's recent album "roots to branches". nice, melodic stuff, good album.

Originally posted by JimK

Bruce-
It isn't a "bass solo" as such? That's "OK", ain't it? :D
I'm over hearing bass solos that sound like "bass solos".
One reason why Jaco continues to blow me away is 'cause his solos aren't "bass solos" as such.

Jim,

I do agree on that, but we don't get to see or hear much of Steve Bailey over here in the UK and the only thing I've really heard is the "bass extremes" stuff which is sold as instructional material. I just don't like the "Heavy Metal Guitar" feel and I think it's probably a bad influence on aspriring bass players.

To me, it's sort of like saying a "bass" solo isn't enough - you've got to put lots of effects on and play really high. But if it's melodic, like Jaco's solos then you don't need effects and extended high range and I think this is a better "message" to give out. I just imagine all these young kids over here, buying the video/CD and thinking - "well I can never be as fast as Wooten, but if I buy a 6-string and put loads of effects on it I can wail just like a lead guitarist!"

To the others - thanks for the background, as I say I didn't know much about Steve Bailey, I now feel "humbled" that you all seem to have actually met him and swapped basses - so please feel free to disregard any of my comments - just an outsider's view, looking on. ;)

[Edited by Bruce Lindfield on 08-16-2000 at 04:10 AM]

Bruce-
I'm with you; remember, I'm not big on effects, either! :D
...that said, I did finally see Jaco on the Joni Mitchell video(SHADOWS & LIGHT album); Jaco goes off on some kinda distortion-riddled romp out of homage to Hendrix...it was C-O-O-L! Pure unbridled "noiz"...totally sonic!

Too, I'm assuming you weren't a Foley fan(one of Miles' '80s "bassists")?

Steve Bailiey's use of false harmonics and extremely clean technique is amazing. I think he is a session player...I could be wrong...Did any one see the bass extremes video with Greg "Mullethead" bissonet on drums... what a goof ball Get a hair cut!!!

I personally think he sucks. I have a friend who is a drummer that played a session with and confirmed my oppinion. After Steve left the session, my drummer friend felt so bad about his own performance that he wanted to quit drumming. He was in the middle of apologizing to the producer about his poor performance when the producer told him to "not be silly that the problem wasn't him but that it was Steve." He said that was the worst groove playing he had ever heard and promptly called another bass playing friend of his to replace all of Steve tracks! All the times I've heard Bailey in person not once did I think he was a good player. Sure his technique is great but so what. He never has anything useful to say with it. All he does is play those damned harmonic chords and then wanks on the most unemotional solos. I'm so sick of him riding Vics coatails to fame. He had a career before Vic but I think the only reason he has one now is because of him.

Originally posted by ka-tet
I personally think he sucks. I have a friend who is a drummer that played a session with and confirmed my oppinion. After Steve left the session, my drummer friend felt so bad about his own performance that he wanted to quit drumming. He was in the middle of apologizing to the producer about his poor performance when the producer told him to "not be silly that the problem wasn't him but that it was Steve."

wow, i'm intrigued. what session was this? for what album? who was the producer? i'm really interested in learning more.

He said that was the worst groove playing he had ever heard and promptly called another bass playing friend of his to replace all of Steve tracks! All the times I've heard Bailey in person not once did I think he was a good player. Sure his technique is great but so what. He never has anything useful to say with it. All he does is play those damned harmonic chords and then wanks on the most unemotional solos. I'm so sick of him riding Vics coatails to fame. He had a career before Vic but I think the only reason he has one now is because of him.

well...steve bailey has played on _MANY_ more albums since the first bass extremes than vic has his whole career. and as for "riding Vics coatails", actually wooten asked him to do that project.

It's been about a year since the session but I think it was done in either South Carolina or North Carolina. I have no clue who the producer was, the album, etc. I didn't care. My friend Ric Murry told me about and I believe every word he said. Ric's a great guy and has no reason to lie. I don't dispute the fact that he plays on a lot of albums and that many people like his playing. The thread was about Steve Bailey and I decided to give my view of him. I could have sworn I read somewhere that it was Steve Bailey's idea to do the Extremes thing but maybe not. I didn't submit my post to offend anyone. The only person I could have offended is Steve Bailey and maybe his family. The simple fact is, is that I haven't heard one note come from him that did anything for me at all.

hey, that's cool, i don't know of anybody who might have been offended, but when a session pro with over 20 years experience gets supposedly slagged by a professional producer, i'd like to know more. after all, dizzy gillespie dug what bailey played enough to have him as his touring bassist, about 14 years ago, and dizzy had pretty discerning tastes.

if you could get me the info of who the producer was, i would be interested in knowing, also what session it was and who replaced him. just curious.

I'd suggest for the sake of your friend that you do it offline. That story was probably between the two of you.

Acually the story was not between the two of as he told many people and I don't believe it reflects poorly on his or the producers part. I don't expect the producer to hire Bailey again so it's a non-issue. The only one this could hurt is Bailey and I'm sure no words from me are capable of doing so. After all, I'm nobody and he's on all the albums. Steve could have been having an "off" day for all I know. I was just relating that story to the many times I have heard him and that it just echoed my opinion of him. If I bother to find out all the details of this I would be comfortable to report my findings. For whatever reason John Turner wants to know the gory details as if he were walking by the scene of an accident. This is all too unimportant to me because in the end my views of Steve Bailey and John's views will remain.

Originally posted by ka-tet
For whatever reason John Turner wants to know the gory details as if he were walking by the scene of an accident. This is all too unimportant to me because in the end my views of Steve Bailey and John's views will remain.

"as if he were walking by the scene of an accident"?? that's ridiculous - i gave my reasons - bailey is an accepted expert, an instructor, and recognized by many as a very tallented innovator on the instrument. other than roots to branches, though, the only cds i have with him are the bass extremes cds, so i am far from a "Bailey-oid" and am interested in learning more about him, just as i am in learning more about many other bassists.

when someone weighs in on a public forum about how someone who is an accepted master of the instrument "sucks" and was fired from a session, and replaced, i would like to know the facts behind the situation. i would respond the same way if somebody mentioned tony levin or jeff berlin or victor wooten in the same light.

what's wrong with that? if someone came on here and said "so-and-so is the best bass player ever, better than wooten and dickens and manring combined" i would either expect some kind of proof or else chalk that person up to being some kind of poochy fan boy.

i think you misinterpret my interest for some kind of "fan's defense of his idol". believe me, i have no idols.

There's only one person I can think of that can considered an "accepted master" and Steve Bailey isn't him. What would it do for you if you knew who the producer was that didn't like his playing? It doesn't matter. I should have never replied to this post. I didn't give my opinion to have to defend it. In the end it doesn't matter what any of us thinks of another player.

Originally posted by ka-tet
There's only one person I can think of that can considered an "accepted master" and Steve Bailey isn't him.


wow, only ONE accepted bass master? who would that be, if you don't mind me asking?


What would it do for you if you knew who the producer was that didn't like his playing? It doesn't matter. I should have never replied to this post. I didn't give my opinion to have to defend it. In the end it doesn't matter what any of us thinks of another player.

i never asked, or expected, you to defend your opinion. i requested verification of statements you presented as fact, which you seem uninterested in providing. that says alot about those facts and their verifiability.

You asking me details is really you asking me to prove my statements. Your last post says as much. That would lead me to believe I have to defend myself because you want proof that what I said was true and if I didn't give it I must be a liar. What do I have to gain by making something up like that? Nothing. I simply gave my opinion of Bailey and related a story about him to add to my own personal experiences of hearing his playing. I didn't like his playing before my friend told me the story and I didn't like him less after. The story didn't affect me but rather amused me. It finally seemed that someone else was hearing what i was. I used to have a Tab Benoit album he played on. It was straight ahead blues and while what he played performed the function it didn't do anything for me. My only mistake was saying he sucks. Maybe that was a little harsh or strong but I truly can't stand his playing and for the life of me can't understand why anyone would.

Originally posted by ka-tet
There's only one person I can think of that can considered an "accepted master" (snip)

And who the #%&$ Is that????????

aww, come on tell us....pleez? heheh....ok, I think Steve's playing is a little mechanical(did ya see that awesome chromatic scale demonstration in Bass Extremes?), but I think it takes a helluva player to be able to play as well as he does in his medium as well as be able to emulate other instruments' phrasing......and Harleys going down the road, of course...he's a cool guy though, too...I met him in Myrtle Beach, SC...he's like 5 feet tall....I guess that would make Vic Wooten about 5 feet tall too!

I think there is an interesting discussion in here somewhere ;) I think that somebody can have "technical mastery" (If this is the right expression?)of their instrument, and you can accept that but still not like what they do with those skills. Bass players tend to play more of a supportive role, so quite often that techical proficiency will be put to the use of others and may not require that you use all your skills.

This reminded me of one of the little stories from Tony Levins's book, which I have been reading recently "Beyond the Bass Clef." He tells about playing with John Lennon, who said to him on first meeting "They tell me you're a good bass player-just don't play too many notes." to which Levin replied : "Don't worry you've got the right guy."

I wonder if he's related to Victor Bailey?

No, seriously, I just checked out the Ampeg site, and he has a cool little solo clip.

And his stuff on Cookbook is really cool, too. How about the country section on Chick from Corea? It is sort of funny, but it also works. I get the feeling those two have a lot of fun making music.

Not trying to raise the dead or anything but I just watched an old bass extremes video of Victor Wooten and Steve Bailey and thought it was not only educational but funny. Oddly enough I'd never heard of Steve Bailey before, great player.

We are enjoying the SB's music still today (2009), but we know nothing
from ka-tet since (2001).

From what I have seen, he's different. (I guess that's a good thing).

I have never seen him groove, only pulling off those wild harmonics. But that's cool, everyone needs a trick to stand out in the crowd.

Are there any clips of him holding down the bottom?

We are enjoying the SB's music still today (2009), but we know nothing
from ka-tet since (2001).

exactly. but hey, he's not the only one who likes to go annonymous on an internet forum, talk smack about somebody, and then disappear into mundane annonymity.

shoot, we deal with dozens of folks like that every day these days. only reason i even acknowledged his obvious b.s. is because back then tb was substantially smaller, so there were fewer trolls too.

Are there any clips of him holding down the bottom?

I've seen him trying and he dragged the tempo really badly so the "BS" above doesn't surprise me. He's often out of tune as well. Still a good player though.

I'm sure he's a good player.
Nothing of what I've heard him do has, however moved me in the slightest.
He was however very nice when I spoke with him once, and I have not heard the things he did with dizzy gillespie and my knowledge of his work is very limited.

Ka-tet sounds like he full of sha-et.
Steve Bailey is one of the coolest guys I ever met . Though his bass style never appealed to me, To say that he sucks is an ignorant A-hole thing to say.
I still consider him a big influence on me personally and professionally if not musically. I first met Steve when he was teaching at M.I. in the early nineties. He was one of my instructors and we developed a friendly rapport which lasted even after I moved back east. From knowing him I gained much insight into the business of music and the life of a first call session player and solo artist.

One time I was fortunate enough to get to hang out in the studio when He and Vic were recording the 2nd bass extremes tracks. I bribed them with pizza. Joel Taylor was the drummer on the session if I remember correctly.

A year later I got Ron's guitars, a local guitar shop, to have Steve do a clinic. ( was an ampeg endorser at the time).
After the clinic we all went out to a bar where a buddy of mine was playing and Steve bought us beer and jammed with us and told war stories all night.
He stayed over at my house and I drove him to the airport the next morning.
I've seen Steve a few times at the NAMM show but lost touch with him over the years.

Funny this has re-appeared as it's the kind of thread I would ignore nowadays - but as John says - in 2000, there were far less people and threads around here and it was a case of getting involved in most of them - whereas now it seems like I only look at maybe 1 in a 1,000 or more!! :eek:

Also in 2000 I had no idea that Ka-Tet was a word belonging to Stephen King , whereas now I have read all of the 'Dark Tower' books!! :p

Interesting blast from the past. I've enjoyed Steve's playing for a lot of years. For whatever reason - I bore pretty easily of all the "flashy" Extremes stuff. If you ever come across an old CD from David Benoit titled "Inner Motion" listen to the tune "South East Quarter" - you'll hear some VERY tasteful fretless work ala SB. Blue Skies!

Steve Bailey is awesome. He is also one of the nicest guys you could ever hope to meet.

For electric jazz or for prog rock a la Tull, Bailey's great. But he isn't a funk player. Of course nobody minded that a thousand other bassists couldn't play funk and R&B. All of a sudden it's a prerequisite for playing bass? Bailey does what he does, and he does it well. You don't have to be funky to be good. I'd listen to Yes all day long and a less funky bassist than Chris Squire does not exist.

I'm sure he's a good player.
Nothing of what I've heard him do has, however moved me in the slightest.


I feel exactly the same.

For electric jazz or for prog rock a la Tull, Bailey's great. But he isn't a funk player. Of course nobody minded that a thousand other bassists couldn't play funk and R&B. All of a sudden it's a prerequisite for playing bass? Bailey does what he does, and he does it well. You don't have to be funky to be good. I'd listen to Yes all day long and a less funky bassist than Chris Squire does not exist.

I'm not sure - lines like "Roundabout" have a kind of funk - certainly very rhythmic and syncopated....? :eyebrow:

I do see the point of view that Yes are seen as a kind of cerebral, calculated band...but I've seen people dancing to their music - "Owner of a Lonely Heart " is a floor-filler...?

I'm not sure - lines like "Roundabout" have a kind of funk - certainly very rhythmic and syncopated....? :eyebrow:

I do see the point of view that Yes are seen as a kind of cerebral, calculated band...but I've seen people dancing to their music - "Owner of a Lonely Heart " is a floor-filler...?
Not only was "Owner" a complete aberration in Yesworld, but it's not the first thing I think of when I think of funk
;)

Well I can certainly think of many players less funky than Chris Squire! :p