So I tore through the basics of music theory. I forgot alot, or just f'ed it up. Nice little refresher course was cool.

I was wondering if anyone has a buncha scales besides the C Major, the modes (IE dorian, phygian, mixodilan, ect, ect)

Like the different blues scales (blues scale, blues minor), the hindu scale, anything.

Also, I know its basically the same formula, but I would like a list of intervals past the perfect octave. I believe it goes minor 9th, major 9th, minor 10th, major 10th, perfect 11th, audmented 11th / dimished 12th, perfect 12th, minor 13th, major 13th, minor 14th, major 14th, perfect 15th
If im off on this let me know :help:


Also, someone on another post mentioned, the key of F has a Bb. Why isnt this called A#?

Any help would be appreciated =) Thanks TB'ers!


-Troy :bassist:

Also, someone on another post mentioned, the key of F has a Bb. Why isnt this called A#?

-Troy :bassist:

Because the key of F already has an 'A' in it.

F, G, A, Bb, C, D, E, F

For all your scale needs: http://www.studybass.com/tools/chord-scale-note-printer/

You've got your compound intervals right but you don't need to go up past 13 because those notes are never really found in chords. The 14 is the same as a 7 an octave up and you're usually going to have a 7 in the chord already. 15 is the octave obviously and is completely unnecessary.

I was wondering if anyone has a buncha scales besides the C Major, the modes (IE dorian, phygian, mixodilan, ect, ect)

Google these:
major pentatonic
minor pentatonic
Kumoi (another pentatonic)
double diminished
melodic minor
natural minor

... that's truly enough to keep you busy for a few decades

Google these:
major pentatonic
minor pentatonic
Kumoi (another pentatonic)
double diminished
melodic minor
natural minor

... that's truly enough to keep you busy for a few decades

I know them all :bassist: Just refreshing on them. I got my bass books stolen, so I didn't have a reference.

Didnt know about Kumoi though. Petty sweet. And how come no one ever told me how bad arse the arabic scale is?! heh

Thanks all, great stuff, helped me a bunch.

Im curious though. Now that I have these things done and solid :

Scales and modes
Chords
Intervals
Cycle of fifths / fourths
Harmonics
12 Bar Blues
Learning standard notation
Relative Minor
all that good stuff

Where do I go next? I learned everything and played it in every key. Should I move on to a different style? ( I play rock bass right now, with some dabbling in blues. Don't wanna learn to much blues from reading. I think it should be taught orally or from seeing it played. Just makes it cooler for me=)

Or should I just call me self sen-sei, and fight ninjas with my bass-ness? lol


-Troy

Sounds like you might benefit from learning a bunch of bass lines by some of the greats, and picking them them apart theory wise, seeing how they outline the chords and serve the music.

Jamerson is always fun for that...

Just make sure you learn entire songs, not just the killer riffs.

I know them all :bassist: Just refreshing on them. I got my bass books stolen, so I didn't have a reference.

Didnt know about Kumoi though. Petty sweet. And how come no one ever told me how bad arse the arabic scale is?! heh

Thanks all, great stuff, helped me a bunch.

Im curious though. Now that I have these things done and solid :

Scales and modes
Chords
Intervals
Cycle of fifths / fourths
Harmonics
12 Bar Blues
Learning standard notation
Relative Minor
all that good stuff

Where do I go next? I learned everything and played it in every key. Should I move on to a different style? ( I play rock bass right now, with some dabbling in blues. Don't wanna learn to much blues from reading. I think it should be taught orally or from seeing it played. Just makes it cooler for me=)

Or should I just call me self sen-sei, and fight ninjas with my bass-ness? lol


-Troy


Hmm, looks like you beat the final boss. Nothing left to learn now. Might as well quit bass and go conquer a new instrument. I would suggest guitar. It has a whole bunch of new scales that aren't in the bass idiom.

Hmm, looks like you beat the final boss. Nothing left to learn now. Might as well quit bass and go conquer a new instrument. I would suggest guitar. It has a whole bunch of new scales that aren't in the bass idiom.

.....quit bass?! Eep! Just the idea makes me cry inside! lol

I keep trying to play guitar. I learned a few chords, but it doesn't hold my interest. I find it real hard to learn / play anything but bass.

Before bass, I played drums for 6 months, and guitar for like 2 weeks. I just can't get into them. There has to be more to learn about bass. I refuse that I taught myself (with the help of TB'ers, a few books, and good ol' study bass) everything I need to know. Kinda makes me sad

Guess its time to play with effects more, master what I know, and take the advice on learning a buncha songs.

-Troy

Sik Sweepz

I refuse that I taught myself (with the help of TB'ers, a few books, and good ol' study bass) everything I need to know. Kinda makes me sad

Guess its time to play with effects more, master what I know, and take the advice on learning a buncha songs.

-Troy

I don't mean this in a negative way at all, but from what I can tell, you've barely scratched the surface of what you need to know. I'm not trying to make this out to be some horrendously difficult, impossible-to-learn thing, but in truth, the list you gave above doesn't begin to cover the basics. If you don't mind a suggestion, or a couple of them, study some harmony, do some transcribing, and cultivate the ability to analyze, apply, and extend what you learn from doing this.

I don't mean this in a negative way at all, but from what I can tell, you've barely scratched the surface of what you need to know. I'm not trying to make this out to be some horrendously difficult, impossible-to-learn thing, but in truth, the list you gave above doesn't begin to cover the basics. If you don't mind a suggestion, or a couple of them, study some harmony, do some transcribing, and cultivate the ability to analyze, apply, and extend what you learn from doing this.

It was a short list :p. I'm still learning standard notation, therefore learning transcribing as well (from what I get is that transcribing is listening to a song, figuring out the bass lines, and putting it in standard notation)
I pick up songs I hear by ear with little difficulty. It was just one of those things that I picked up on after playing and doing alot of ear training. Some things come easy, other things (like keeping time through a whole song) come harder for some, and not others.

And if I get the right meaning to harmony, doesn't that come with learning scales and intervals? Harmony is part (not all) perfect fifths and other intervals, diatonic chords, and things like that no?

And I always change songs around as I play them. Thats the cool part of being in an originals band. We take songs we want to cover, get them down exactly as its played by others, then change it to make it sound more like our style of hard rock. Except 'Aint no sunshine'....no one should change that song ever! heh

Note - not getting defensive, just making sure I'm on the right path :smug:

-Troy

Scales are peachy but matching them with the appropriate harmony is really where it's at.

Make sure you *really* know what to play over B7b9natural13, and which scale you would use if the 13 was flatted.

Very, very few bass players really know their harmony inside and out, and it unfortunately shows for alot of us when it comes time to solo or write melodic lines.

Arpeggiate the scales you know and match those sounds up with the basic chords-

M7
m7
m7b5 (half dim)
full dim
aug
etc...

While you're at it, life without the symmetrical scales just ain't worth living. Diminished and wholetone scales are staples of most mature improvisers. Bonus points if you can figure out the places a diminished scale will fit besides over a fully d. Don't forget melodic minor and harmonic minor, as well as their respective set of 7 modes each.

And yes... transcribe, and learn a couple thousand songs. Theory without real life application is like making out with a blow-up doll.

Good luck!

Scales are peachy but matching them with the appropriate harmony is really where it's at.

Make sure you *really* know what to play over B7b9natural13, and which scale you would use if the 13 was flatted.

Very, very few bass players really know their harmony inside and out, and it unfortunately shows for alot of us when it comes time to solo or write melodic lines.

Arpeggiate the scales you know and match those sounds up with the basic chords-

M7
m7
m7b5 (half dim)
full dim
aug
etc...

While you're at it, life without the symmetrical scales just ain't worth living. Diminished and wholetone scales are staples of most mature improvisers. Bonus points if you can figure out the places a diminished scale will fit besides over a fully d. Don't forget melodic minor and harmonic minor, as well as their respective set of 7 modes each.

And yes... transcribe, and learn a couple thousand songs. Theory without real life application is like making out with a blow-up doll.

Good luck!

Ohhh good idea. I know my bass chords, and if I don't know one off the top of my head, it's fairly easy to break it down. But I didnt think of how to apply them to compound intervals (which is what B7b9natural13 would be right? You could use a B Major scale, B minor, then compound B major in a higher octave for the natural 13 right?)

Is there a better reference site for bass chords then bass study? It doesn't explain the natural 13 and the difference between B7 and b9.

-Troy

Troy, do you play a chordal instrument? A few hours at the keyboard will really open your eyes. Chords on the bass are cute but the range and technical limitations make the harmony incredibly restricted.

When I say B7b9natural13 I mean B-D#-F#-A-C-(F)-G: A dominant 7 chord with a flatted 9th and natural 13. Chord tones above the octave are called "extensions," and are vital to mature improvisation. 9=2, 13=6.


You're using classical theory terminology. Get a book on jazz theory... it will explain everything in much more user friendly terms.

Check out the link in my sig. It may help you out.

You also may want to take a music theory/composition class at the local CC or take lessons from a jazz bassist or classical musician. Maybe piano lessons might interest you.

This book: http://www.amazon.com/Bass-Grimoire-Complete-Adam-Kadmon/dp/0825821819
might be worthwhile.

Without knowing anything about your knowledge level except about what you've posted here, I'd warmly recommend studies in rhythm, timing, dynamics, phrasing, expression, ear training, transcription.... There's a lot to learn... What notes you play does not matter nearly as much as HOW and WHEN you play them and in which context.

Listen to and become deeply familiar with a lot more music. Find a challenging genre and learn/apply it. Rinse and repeat.

Since you seem to be in a band, how would you describe your musical goals in relation to that band?

Listen to and become deeply familiar with a lot more music. Find a challenging genre and learn/apply it. Rinse and repeat.

Since you seem to be in a band, how would you describe your musical goals in relation to that band?

My goals simple. Play music in front of people, and have people jam out with us to our songs, rinse, repeat heh.

I just love to play, and love to advance in bass. This is the first band I've been in. I've learned more in the past 7 months playing in a band, then I ever have playing alone for 5 and 1/2 years. I learned mostly everything I know about music theory, but applying it to a bands sound is different then just fiddling around in the ol' bed room ya know?

Im trying to figure out my goals. Never really thought about it, I just play, all the time :D. I have no aspirations to be a cover musician ( not knocking brother and sister musicians, just not my thing personally). Even when I do learn a song, its only a matter of time before I change it around one way or another.

I originally started playing bass to play something different, as the rock coming out now isn't really my thing. I felt like people deserved something better ya know? Once I got into bass, I wanted to learn how to express myself with the instrument. I feel I can do that now. Every small adjustment to a scale can drastically change the message your sending, I think at least.

I guess at this point I just don't know where to go. I don't listen to jazz, its not really my thing either. But if it'll help add new dynamics to my playing, maybe its time I learned some of it at least.


-Troy

Troy, jazz and blues vocabulary is the foundation of "American" music. 90% of the time when you take an improvisation class, you're really taking a class about Miles and Charlie Parker, etc...

Even if you don't want to learn to swing, the terminology and techniques we use from jazz is nearly universal for modern music.

One last note- what do Victor, Oteil, Meshell, Janek, Patitucci, Marcus, Jaco, and Stanley Clark have in common? Jazz, bass playing, and being awesome.

My goals simple. Play music in front of people, and have people jam out with us to our songs, rinse, repeat heh.

I just love to play, and love to advance in bass. This is the first band I've been in. I've learned more in the past 7 months playing in a band, then I ever have playing alone for 5 and 1/2 years. I learned mostly everything I know about music theory, but applying it to a bands sound is different then just fiddling around in the ol' bed room ya know?

Im trying to figure out my goals. Never really thought about it, I just play, all the time :D. I have no aspirations to be a cover musician ( not knocking brother and sister musicians, just not my thing personally). Even when I do learn a song, its only a matter of time before I change it around one way or another.

I originally started playing bass to play something different, as the rock coming out now isn't really my thing. I felt like people deserved something better ya know? Once I got into bass, I wanted to learn how to express myself with the instrument. I feel I can do that now. Every small adjustment to a scale can drastically change the message your sending, I think at least.

I guess at this point I just don't know where to go. I don't listen to jazz, its not really my thing either. But if it'll help add new dynamics to my playing, maybe its time I learned some of it at least.


-Troy

Get some goals beyond "My goals simple. Play music in front of people, and have people jam out with us to our songs, rinse, repeat heh."

I'm confused. :confused:

The OP's first post makes it seem like he knows very little because he "forgot alot or just f'ed it up".

By post #5, he knows everything.

By post #9 he's off to study his effects because he's learned all there is to know.

By posts #11 and #13, he demonstrates his knowledge deficits.

By post #18, all of a sudden he's in a band.

All the good advice given seems to be ignored or challenged.

/troll or ADHD challenged.

I'm just saying....

OK, so we can assume that you:

A. Know every scale listed by sound? It's meaningless to only know how to build and finger a scale, if you don't know what it sounds like.

B. You can harmonize every scale you know (see A above) so you know what chords are naturally integral with that scale.

C. You can hear a bass line and know what scale(s) it's based on

D. You can hear common progressions and know the chord changes by ear- e.g. ii V I, I IV V, I vi IV V, etc. etc.

E. You can play a simple bass line with the exact same groove for 15 minutes straight- e.g. "I"ll Take You There", "Ball Of Confusion", etc.

F. You can play a supportive bassline for a 12-bar blues withoug getting bored, or boring the others in the band, yet without stepping on anyone's toes.

Sounds good- now all you need to do is lean a bunch of songs, and play every chance you get, no matter the gig.

jte

I'm confused...
All the good advice given seems to be ignored or challenged.

/troll...

+1


Troll's love echo effects, I hear.

IN MY OPINION...

Man, yeah... Even I suggest to get a little humility, and realize that you'll never stop learning. You will never MASTER a scale, it's... I don't know... absurd.

Some time ago, before starting to take classes with a teacher, the only thing I played was Metallica, Rush, Iron Maiden, and stuff like that. But then I realized that Classical and Jazz require some deep thought and study. I realized that by learning with my jazz teacher I was learning by far much much more than studying Rock or Metal basslines. This I confirmed when I read a Jeff Berlin interview.

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=121376

Get a copy of The Real Book, study Bach, Mozart... the mandatory stuff.

I'm not saying rock is **** I'm saying it is much more musically (intellectually, knowledge-ally?) rewarding to study Jazz and classical.

;)

I'm confused. :confused:

The OP's first post makes it seem like he knows very little because he "forgot alot or just f'ed it up".

By post #5, he knows everything.

By post #9 he's off to study his effects because he's learned all there is to know.

By posts #11 and #13, he demonstrates his knowledge deficits.

By post #18, all of a sudden he's in a band.

All the good advice given seems to be ignored or challenged.

/troll or ADHD challenged.

I'm just saying....

Read it again man. Even read my older posts on other threads. I was in a band before I even joined TB.
I asked questions to see if I was on the right path, is all. I even said that at one point.
Also, I gave myself a refresher course, a refresher course that was done before posting this thread. The things I forgot or f'd up was before joining a band, and I wanted to make sure I had my compound intervals and scales down right.

Playing alone I didn't find myself calling on music theory for much. Playing with a band, I needed it more than ever.
I never said I knew very little, I said I was going over everything again, and would like some reference material, so I KNEW I was doing it right.

People were saying I finished music theory, so I figured effects would be something to look into more. I don't use them in my band is all.


I've yet to challenge any advice. Just simply put it in different words, or say how I'm not interested. Once again, I even said, I'm not interested in Jazz. Because I'm not. The style of music does nothing for me, its personal taste. But I also went on to say that I would learn it if I have nothing further to learn in classical theory.

I do have ADHD, but maybe you do to. Just read the posts FULLY, and you'll see that everything you said is off basis. I appreciate every little bit of advice I was given.

Everyone offers solid advice when I have a problem on TB. You....just say, "Click the link on my sig" and, "Maybe its ADHD" to everything. Try changing it up a bit.

-Troy

Edit : Asking questions is how you learn no? I can't just say "Oh ok" then just know things. I ask questions so I can understand things. If I think I know something, I ask "Is this what it is, OR is this how you do it?". I cant think of a better way to learn what people tell me.

Get some goals beyond "My goals simple. Play music in front of people, and have people jam out with us to our songs, rinse, repeat heh."

Well give me a hand then :D

I don't have any set goals. I just love playing music and learning about bass. I do it for hours on end everyday. I really don't have a direction, or goals or anything like that. I say my goals are just to play in front of people and have then jam out, because isn't that a main point in music? To express yourself, and share it with as many people that are willing to listen to it?

Give me an example of an achievable goal for someone like me (I'll give you more details about my playing history if you need / care) and I'll reach them, or do my best to.

-Troy

Well give me a hand then :D

I don't have any set goals. I just love playing music and learning about bass. I do it for hours on end everyday. I really don't have a direction, or goals or anything like that. I say my goals are just to play in front of people and have then jam out, because isn't that a main point in music? To express yourself, and share it with as many people that are willing to listen to it?

Give me an example of an achievable goal for someone like me (I'll give you more details about my playing history if you need / care) and I'll reach them, or do my best to.

-Troy

Ex. 1 Write out all 12 major scales, 2 octaves ascending and descending in bass and treble clef. Standard notation only.

Aaaaaaaaannd go!

Ex. 1 Write out all 12 major scales, 2 octaves ascending and descending in bass and treble clef. Standard notation only.

Aaaaaaaaannd go!

Woot! Homework! heh. I'm on it onlyclave! Why treble clef though?


-Troy

Guys, be nice.

Repertoire- None of my students are ready to sub on my gigs til they can play:
What's Goin' On- Marvin Gave
I Was Made to Love Her, For Once in My Life- Stevie
What is Hip- Tower of Power
Birdland, A Remark You Made- Weather Report
Walking basslines sight reading chord changes at minimum 200 bpm
Basic Brazilian and Cuban grooves

Honestly, this doesn't even touch the stuff my "advanced" student work on... Other teachers have their own benchmarks, but for the gigs I play this is the "boys vs. men" line in the sand.


Troy, I've given you enough stuff to keep you busy for months.

My only other recommendation is to get lessons with the most qualified teacher in your area. You might think you're rocking the house til you get put in your place by a working professional. It happens to all of us.
;)


Why treble cleff? That's where the melodies happen. As I said before, everything will come into focus with hours and hours in front of the piano.

Guys, be nice.

Repertoire- None of my students are ready to sub on my gigs til they can play:
What's Goin' On- Marvin Gave
I Was Made to Love Her, For Once in My Life- Stevie
What is Hip- Tower of Power
Birdland, A Remark You Made- Weather Report
Walking basslines sight reading chord changes at minimum 200 bpm
Basic Brazilian and Cuban grooves

Honestly, this doesn't even touch the stuff my "advanced" student work on... Other teachers have their own benchmarks, but for the gigs I play this is the "boys vs. men" line in the sand.


Troy, I've given you enough stuff to keep you busy for months.

My only other recommendation is to get lessons with the most qualified teacher in your area. You might think you're rocking the house til you get put in your place by a working professional. It happens to all of us.
;)


Why treble cleff? That's where the melodies happen. As I said before, everything will come into focus with hours and hours in front of the piano.

How about a cheap casio keyboard? :p

The little I learned of standard notation told me this about piano, " The left hand usually plays the bass clef (C clef right?), and the right hand is the treble clef(G clef?)"

Is that on point? Because if you can play both treble and bass with one instrument, thats just plain cool.


Thanks for all the help chicago. Its really appreciated.

-Troy

As long as it has keys, it will open up your ears.

Just playing the corresponding chord in LH and scale in RH will give you a perspective the bass alone can never grant you.

Great advice all over this post. Good luck.

People were saying I finished music theory




Once again, I even said, I'm not interested in Jazz. Because I'm not. The style of music does nothing for me, its personal taste. But I also went on to say that I would learn it if I have nothing further to learn in classical theory.


:rollno: