What is it with us?

Throughout my fifty one year career as a professional bassist, I've noticed something that I've never seen, as obviously apparent in players of other instruments....that "Brotherhood" and "Sisterhood", if you will, thing.
In the last few days, a couple lady friends of mine have both brought this up to me. One, a fine violinist, and the other a well known singer/pianist in NYC. Without knowing each other on a personal level, in a matter of a couple days, both parties agreed, in separate conversations with me (THEY brought it up.) that we posses a certain closeness with one another. The violinist told me.....and I've heard this many times before....that in symphony orchestras that she's been involved with, the bass sections always seem to be having the best time with the music, and their roles in it. She said the bassists have the best senses of humor and don't seem to be as "competitive" with each other as the members of other sections. Not a lot of jealosy or ego. I've noticed, more times than not, that they hang together in their personal time away from the work environment. Complete famlies have established close relationships.
I guess I first noticed this when I lived in Aspen, back in the sixties. During the summer months, when all the Julliard people would show up for the summer festival, the club I was playing in would fill up with music lovers and players. BUT, there was always a long table reserved in the back for the bass players.
This table was populated by classical bassists who have since attained hero status on our instrument. One thing we had in common, besides our instrument, was a certain wacky sense of humor bordering on the bizarre. After my gig was through for the night, we would go out to the tent together and share our music, our basses, our ideas and a whole lot of cheap red wine. The closest thing to jealousy, was when one player would play something SO good, that the rest of us would threaten the individual with a slow, but certain death.
I would return home exhausted, from playing and laughing my ass off. Blah, blah.....
Anyway, have you noticed this? Why?.....do ya think? I have ideas......
You go first.

I don't have much exposure to the classical world, but I have noticed some of what you say and have some ideas about it, from the standpoint of a jazz bassist, at least out here.

For one thing, I've noticed that horn players are used to being in groups together and playing big band together and have that experience good and bad with each other. Bassist are never on a gig together and I think that makes us curious and interested in one another. I've also never really felt like I was fighting with any of them for gigs. There are SO MANY more tenor sax players and drummers and piano players and singers in this town than bassist, so I always try to know a few well enough to refer and receive referrals from. I know some people on other instruments who feel like they never get gigs because a few guys on their instrument suck all the gigs up. Not so with bass. I've lost gigs to people and they to me, but basically, we're all just trying to find the right people to play with and it seems to work out for anyone who's really trying.

Also, I think what we do is pretty freaking impractical. Basses are big and expensive and hard on our bodies and tough to move around town and maintain and amplify and all that. So, I do feel a kinship with someone else who's chosen to do and usually we have a bunch of questions for each other.

Also, I think the nature of being a bassist is musically and personally to be a supportive guy. We're rarely front men/women who are trying to call attention to ourselves. We need other people to commune with musically and it's in our nature to be supportive. The consummate guy behind the guy and I think that that personality trait doesn't stop when you put the instrument down.

I don't know, it's a good question. I will say that there will be 7 TBDB-ist in my tiny living room this weekend and I can't wait. So, I think you're right, but I'm not totally sure why.

I think it's simple. We're all crazy and we recognize it in each of us.

The instrument is too damn big. The strings are heavy as hell. The bow is a frickin pain in the ass. It's a masochistic instrument and yet we love the sound and how it feels. The good players look at the newer players and are reminded of the struggles they went through and how hard it was to climb up the mountain. It takes a special breed to enjoy this and needs a certain outlook on life to play it - because from pro to rank beginner, your intonation will suck from to time and it keeps us all humble.

We're also an important minority musically but we know how important what we do keeps the music going.

Agree with all of the above. It's a brotherhood. Guys go out of their way to help you out and be supportive. There's always lots to talk about. And like Huy said, ya gotta be a little touched in the head to go through what we go through just to find, learn, practice, transport, and play these monsters. Anybody who would do that is a bit of a whack job, it's true. On the other hand, they'd also be an extremely dedicated whack job with a fair amount of discipline and a mother lode of passion that they direct toward a very personal goal that has little to do with outside praise or remuneration. That's a pretty serious trait to have in common with somebody right off the bat.

Not really. A few bad apples don't spoil the whole bunch, and all that. And kids will be kids.

It seems like with bassists, the biggest competition is, who can be the most self deprecating. Personally, I like hanging out with bass players.

I don't know - and I don't WANT to know - what 'issues' TBDB might be having, but I'll say this about the "ill timed" comment: PeeDub, I have heard your recordings and I don't think you are capable of anything remotely like "ill timed".

Thanks for kicking off a great thread. We needed to have this conversation!

Maiken & I are on our way in a very few minutes to go meet/hang out/have lunch with seven terminally afflicted double bass players at Troy's place in Seattle - I even got up early on my 'day off' to do this!

We'll get to meet young Del too and check out his drumming. :)

I've always found bass players to be a supportive yet no nonsense club... kind like the job of a successful bassist. The funny thing is I know most bass players outside of TBDB by their voices on the phone when I need a sub.

Although I haven't personally met most of you, I feel we share a very common bond that is pretty strong. That's why I like hanging out here.
It's pretty hard to take our instrument lightly. It involves a pretty big commitment. There's lots of work that goes into being able to play the double bass well and when you play well enough to be successful, you are spending most of your time supporting other players on other, much smaller and lighter instruments.

Is it any wonder that most of us develop a rather tough skin and a pretty whacky sense of humor? Maybe we are commiserating more than anything else!

I just re-connected with an old bassist friend who I haven't seen or heard from in over 20 years. We talked story and caught up on many things as well as gave each other a few recordings over the last few years. Of course he sounded great and we both were overjoyed that our paths had been so similar even though we had not kept in touch.

Right now I'm mentoring (not teaching) another aspiring bassist. It is like looking in a mirror of many years past. His passion for the instrument and his desire to really become accomplished are an inspiration to me and remind me of how wonderful our instrument is and what a beautiful fraternity we are.

I hang out here for the humor and camraderie. I get to hear what other guys are doing, what other guys are playing and listening to and what equipment is worth checking out. Occasionaly there will be some musical thing that I get to glean from another bassist. It feels great to share insight, add to the collective wisdom and throw out a joke once in awhile. It's my sincere desire that I actually get to meet more of you as time goes by.

Paul, this is a great thread, thanks for starting it. Chris, Marc and everyone else, I enjoy reading your posts.

Aloha nui loa

Trey:cool:

That big thing we lug around provides common ground. I work across the street from the Kennedy Center, and whenever I see someone lugging a bass case (or sitting near one at lunch), I feel a kinship and find we have something to talk about, no matter what style of music we play. I had a nice chat with Sting a few weeks back (subject of another post). I knew he was tired of talking politics with everyone, and I was able to take him to a subject that put him back in his element.

Nice thread, PW. Thanks.

Speaking of Brotherhood and Fraternity (not to mention Sisterhood and Sorority .... Let's not leave out the gal-bassists here ;) ) ..... Here's what I did over the week-end (in a parallel thread) .... http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=547566 :D .

Before I went to Troy's bass-bash I went to Seattle Folk Life Festival .... Lots of Music of all genres and flavors. As I was getting out of my truck in the parking garage, I saw a bassist out-loading his bass and he simultaneously saw my Gollihur Bass and bluegrass stickers on the back of my truck. We started talking. He was a young fellow (compared to me) with a fairly-notable Eastern European accent. I found out from him that his group was showcasing in one of the indoor acoustic halls for the "world fiddle" venue. I told him I would come to listen and he told me the time and place. It was some haunting, enchanting traditional Hungarian / Transylvanian / Gypsy folk music ..... Just a violin, a viola, and a three-string bass with huge guts played with a shorty bow (no pizz) that looked like a hack-saw. I loved it.

After that I wandered around the grounds and came upon a bluegrass jam. I was listening, wishing I could play some bass, when a old-time fiddle tune started up and the bass player was fumbling a bit. I knew the tune and I called out a few chords for him but he handed my his bass and said with a big smile "play it .... you know it". A dozen songs and tunes later (he had switched to guitar), the CCB with high steel strings had worn my wrists and fingertips out and I gave him back his bass. We had a great time and finally we introduced ourselves to each other :D .

Everybody spot-on.
I think the humor is a huge part. The obvious pain involved is, as well, as you all have mentioned.
When my late wife was diagnosed with ovarian cancer we went to some support groups. It was enlightening. The ugly part of the disease was all over the room....but, the humor defeated it. It DID remind me of us in some ways. They even laughed at the prospect of the end. Power in the face of fear. This IS extreme, I understand, trying to draw a parallel between dying cancer victims and a bunch bass-crazies. None the less, I thought of that at the time.
If your cuppa tea is serious pizzicato on the bass, you know. Blisters on blisters, on callus barely formed. I've had them so bad that I was embarrassed to let a normal person take a gander. (Before amps)
My first foundations on the bass were built in a club on Look-Out Mountain above Denver and Golden. My mentor at the time, was a great be-bop player and part owner of a club called the Thunderbird, later moved and re-named The Robin's Nest, named Ray Iverson. Ray played alto, tenor, bari, flute, vibes, drums and bass. Talent up the ying-yang. He gave me my first important lesson on being the bass player in the section, and it wasn't pretty for me. He sensed the talent and figured I was strong enough to handle the shot in the face I was about to get....at least for a 16 year old wannabe.
I went into the John and sidled up next to a pretty buzzed-out Ray at the latrine, hoping for some male-potty-fun-time. Nope. He said "What the **** do ya think yer doin' out there?" I said something like " Playn' my axe, baby". I won't go on, because you can imagine.....he broke what little heart I had, because he was MY hero. Bottom-line (so to speak) it worked for me. He pissed me off! I went home that night swearing vengance. I returned about a month later with some pretty good ammo under my young belt. Time spent copping Ray Brown, Leroy and Red paid off. I got into the pocket with the piano player and drummer (both old farts like Ray). Ray (Iverson) headed into the John again (right behind where I stood) gave me a huge smile and a corny wink on his way in. On his way out, he goosed me. I was in, without a doubt.
Later, Ray and I would have manly..."Who has the most heroic calluses" contests. We would stand, toe-to-toe at the bar, both armed with lit cigarettes. At a count-down, we would cradle the un-lit end between our thumbs, and the lit end on our index fingers. Whoever would scream in pain and throw the butt on the floor first, yelling m***********!, :eek: lost. I usually won because I played more often than Ray.
I like to think that Ray Iverson's only regret in life was that he couldn't beat my ass at that game.
Strange people, us bass players. :atoz:

When I'm humping the bass up a flight or two of subway steps, I'm sometimes asked the "flute-violin-harmonica-etc." question. My answer after 35+ years is still, "No, because then I'd have to listen to it when I practice." We'll all play til we can't carry it any more. My first lesson, and one of the few I've had, came from a clarinet player Music Ed. major who showed me Simandl hand position and fingering. Thanks to RD Snider wherever you are.

When I'm humping the bass up a flight or two of subway steps, I'm sometimes asked the "flute-violin-harmonica-etc." question. My answer after 35+ years is still, "No, because then I'd have to listen to it when I practice." We'll all play til we can't carry it any more. My first lesson, and one of the few I've had, came from a clarinet player Music Ed. major who showed me Simandl hand position and fingering. Thanks to RD Snider wherever you are.

I got this same thing (about the flute-fiddle-jew's harp thing) a while back from someone and in my crazy, quick-witted manner replied, "Well, it takes a MAN to play a piece of furniture."

I think part of our camaraderie stems from the fact that, for the most part, we are supporting band members. Our job is to be the foundation for the extroverts to shine from. It takes a different kind of individual to be the "out front" man (or woman) and no disrespect is intended towards them by this statement.

I have always found the bass folks to be an easily approachable lot. That's what I strive to be as well.

I think part of our camaraderie stems from the fact that, for the most part, we are supporting band members. Our job is to be the foundation for the extroverts to shine from. It takes a different kind of individual to be the "out front" man (or woman) and no disrespect is intended towards them by this statement.


+1.
Mike, this is one point I had in mind at the top.

I've noticed that bass players often (especially in the college days) go out and drink together. I've almost never seen other instrument groups do the same as it would lead to rivalries and putdowns.

The punchline, "And the basses are loaded!" exists for a reason.;)

I have always got along with other bassist very well! We are the rhythm of the drums with the notes of the guitar. It takes a special breed to be a bassist!

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h213/bassmasta22/thcdfa0bf5.jpg

When I was a teeager learning this instrument that we love, my dad (bassist himself) looked at me and made a comment about my then current teacher as being 'another flakey bass player'. When I asked him to elaborate, he said 'what can I say? Bass players are just weird.'. He smiled at me and says 'you'll fit right in.'

What I have noticed most in my career is that without ever picking up an instrument, or mentioning that I am even a musician, people have looked at me and said 'You're a bass player, aren't you?'

Most of the musicians that have hung out with on a personal level have mainly been bass players. Yes, there is a brotherhood.

I think of myself as a catcher, calling the pitches, throwing out base runners, blocking the plate to save a run. The pitcher gets credited with the win (or the loss), but the catcher is good with that. It goes with the position. He's right in the middle of EVERYTHING, but some one else is in the spotlight.

Catchers and bass players rarely work together - there is just one on the diamond or the bandstand at a time - but we share an understanding of the game and the strategy, we have a situational awareness that the fielders don't have.

But we share a pride in our craft, we can always learn from each other, and we swap tips on catching certain pitchers (He starts rushing in the third set, can't locate his sinker if he's had a drink ...). Some of us go on to make very quotable managers.

Yogi said, "You can observe a lot by watching!". The bass players know, better than most, you can hear a lot by listening.

I think of myself as a catcher, calling the pitches, throwing out base runners, blocking the plate to save a run. The pitcher gets credited with the win (or the loss), but the catcher is good with that. It goes with the position. He's right in the middle of EVERYTHING, but some one else is in the spotlight.

Catchers and bass players rarely work together - there is just one on the diamond or the bandstand at a time - but we share an understanding of the game and the strategy, we have a situational awareness that the fielders don't have.

But we share a pride in our craft, we can always learn from each other, and we swap tips on catching certain pitchers (He starts rushing in the third set, can't locate his sinker if he's had a drink ...). Some of us go on to make very quotable managers.

Yogi said, "You can observe a lot by watching!". The bass players know, better than most, you can hear a lot by listening.

GREAT ANALOGY!!!!