So, I'm finally getting myself a new bass. I've got it all planned the luthier is starting work on it as I write this. It's going to be a beauty of a bass, body inspired by a Stingray 5, all Hipshot hardware, a pair of EMG 40DC pups, EMG BQC System (so, yea, I play active, I use lots of effects. I'm the bass player some guys love to hate).

So I was left with the question of what to do with my old bass. It's also beautiful, but it's custom-made, and would probably sell for a really low value. So I decided to keep it and turn it into something diametrically opposed to the new bass. I'm going to have it transformed into a fretless, and I want a classic (maybe even vintage), full round sound coming out of it. I've also decided to go passive (with an active preamp which can be totally bypassed thru a push/pull knob)

My question for the pup gurus is: What pickup do you guys suggest for this project:
- Passive
- Aiming for a warm flat-string fretless sound,
- Some low growl would be welcome
- Preferably no exposed poles (living in the coast=lots of oxidation)
- It'd have to fit into the cavities left by EMG soapbar-sized pickups

I'm open to all suggestions (preferably something I can listen to and evaluate online, as it'd be probably pretty hard for me to get to test good pups where I live)

seymour duncan!

seymour duncan!

Which is exactly what I have in mind right now! Specifically, Passive Phase II SSB-5. What are the other options, tho...?

idk seymour duncans are the solution to all my problems..

it didnt help in couples therapy but it helps in my bassment with my GK crankin

so, I've been looking around and I see three options:
- Seymour Duncan SSB-5
- Bartolini M45
- Delano SBC 5 HE/S

I'm especially curious about the Delano, as they're advertised specifically as good fretless pups... Anyone got any experience with these guys?

I had Barts in two of the 3 fretless Stambaughs I've owned, a 4 & a 6. Not sure of the exact model but they were both passive and sounded AWESOME.

The more I read about them, the more I want to try the Delanos, with a Delano preamp.. overall very nice testimonials, I just can't seem to find audio samples!!

Villex! Add an Aguilar OBP-1 and a push/pull volume for active/passive. With the Villex mid control, it'd be like a 3-band EQ.

If you don't try Villex in this application you will be so missing out. I have a Warmoth P/J fretless with Villex passive. Un-Believable range of tone. Soloing the neck is greater low-down warm fretlessness that it almost ovewhelming. Then dial in the bridge, little by little, and you reach a sweet spot that balances exquisitely. A tad more bridge and it starts to growl very pleasantly. More and you get into a snarl. All that before you even touch the eq. You can adjust the pups scarily close to the strings with no loss of sustain. Villex pups are uncanny. Villex pups are gorgeously musical; almost an instrument unto themselves. :cool:
Read what "Fullrangebass" says about them. They sound like they are made for your needs - no exposed poles, old-school passive tone, growl at your command, decent output (when adjusted high) and they even look kind of esoteric. Did I mention how musical they are?

DaveAceofBass and billoetjen beat me to it and they phrased perfectly what I wanted say. My vote goes to Villex too. I am waiting for another Villex set for a fretless of mine

www.villex.com

The sound you describe calls for Barts.

I'd look into Villex or the Delano bladed offering.

If you don't try Villex in this application you will be so missing out. I have a Warmoth P/J fretless with Villex passive. Un-Believable range of tone. Soloing the neck is greater low-down warm fretlessness that it almost ovewhelming. Then dial in the bridge, little by little, and you reach a sweet spot that balances exquisitely. A tad more bridge and it starts to growl very pleasantly. More and you get into a snarl. All that before you even touch the eq. You can adjust the pups scarily close to the strings with no loss of sustain. Villex pups are uncanny. Villex pups are gorgeously musical; almost an instrument unto themselves. :cool:
Read what "Fullrangebass" says about them. They sound like they are made for your needs - no exposed poles, old-school passive tone, growl at your command, decent output (when adjusted high) and they even look kind of esoteric. Did I mention how musical they are?

Cool!! Which model are you referring to, tho? Also, their catalog doesn't seem to carry anything EMG40DC-sized... I'd also have to order by phone, and they'd have to get them ship to Brazil, (whereas I could more easily get Barts or Delanos off bestbassgear, who have a structured purchase system and will certainly ship it here...)

The sound you describe calls for Barts.
I've read stuff from quite a few people disappointed by barts, tho... makes me wary.

The gentleman who owns the Villex operation has always been extremely responsive to my e-mails and calls. He must sleep with his iPhone next to him...
Try contacting him directly and putting your questions to him from this point. "Fullrangebass" pointed me towards Villex a couple of years ago when I had a query about tone. He raved about them at the time, and now I believe that he underestimated them.

Good luck and happy playing.
Bill

Seymour Duncan Antiquity II's.

Q-Tuner!

The gentleman who owns the Villex operation has always been extremely responsive to my e-mails and calls. He must sleep with his iPhone next to him...
Try contacting him directly and putting your questions to him from this point. "Fullrangebass" pointed me towards Villex a couple of years ago when I had a query about tone. He raved about them at the time, and now I believe that he underestimated them.

Good luck and happy playing.
Bill
Thanks! I'll probably drop an email or Skype them sometime. The sound bites on their site certainly sound great. Right now, I'm still leaning towards the Delanos based mostly on all the great feedback I've read and the ease of getting them, but you've given me something else to consider. (SDs would be even easier and cheaper to get, as they're routinely sold in Brazil, but I'm looking for something different here..)

Seymour Duncan Antiquity II's.
Can't. The bass already has EMG40-sized cavities, using anything smaller would look funny. Besides, they have exposed poles, which may rust quickly and will probably not align well with the tight 16mm spacing.

Q-Tuner!
Their description doesn't really scream "warm vintage growl"... ?

seymour duncan!

+1:hyper:

Dude I made a project bass awhile back i routered out a cavity for a bridge pick up (it was a P) and I ripped the frets out and filled em in with wood putty, I know that sounds suicidal to all the bass gurus but to my surprise when I put Seymour Duncans in it, it transformed my bass playing, I know they aren't soap bars but still, Seymour Duncan has a spot in my heart for passive forever. Your gonna love it I promise.

Thanks! I'll probably drop an email or Skype them sometime. The sound bites on their site certainly sound great. Right now, I'm still leaning towards the Delanos based mostly on all the great feedback I've read and the ease of getting them, but you've given me something else to consider. (SDs would be even easier and cheaper to get, as they're routinely sold in Brazil, but I'm looking for something different here..)


Can't. The bass already has EMG40-sized cavities, using anything smaller would look funny. Besides, they have exposed poles, which may rust quickly and will probably not align well with the tight 16mm spacing.


Their description doesn't really scream "warm vintage growl"... ?

Man, there's magic in the Villex pickups. Delano sounds interesting, but I don't think it would be as warm, although the Villex pickups have incredible highs and humongous lows. The Villex pickups are very versatile, and the sound sits in the mix just right. William is a one man operation to my knowledge, and his website pretty much sucks. Don't judge him by his website though. He speaks with a broken Russian accent, and is a little hard to understand, but what matters is his pickups and his innovation. You would seriously be missing out if you didn't seriously consider them. My suggestion is the split coil Villex pickups. The single coils could potentially give you 60-cycle hum (like every other single coil pickup), I prefer humcancelling split coils.

As for the Q-Tuners, cool design, but judging from their soundclips you'd have a much harsher tone than the Villex pickups. Villex will still give you the highs and lows you crave, but with a warmth and a growl and a versatility you can't find in other passive pickups.

As for the Q-Tuners, cool design, but judging from their soundclips you'd have a much harsher tone than the Villex pickups. Villex will still give you the highs and lows you crave, but with a warmth and a growl and a versatility you can't find in other passive pickups.

You guys have me convinced :) I'll definitely contact Villex when I'm ready to order the pickups. I'm still trying to complete my pedalboard (two pedals and a good set of patch cables to go, should be done within the month), and I still have to pay for my new bass's construction, so this month is going to be tight.

Next month, tho, first thing, I'll be sending mr. Villex an email. Maybe even earlier, who knows, depends on how things go, money-wise, this month.

Thanks for all the suggestions this far, guys... Still one thing left to decide, tho:
The bass already has 5 knob holes (vol, vol, tone/pushpull circuit activation, bass, treble). What do you guys suggest I use to fill up that space? I understand Villex includes some sort of mid-switch, so that'd be one hole filled. What's the usual configuration for the other Villex pots?

.. otherwise, should I go and add a preamp instead? btw, I'm kind of a knob-tweaker, always changing things around from song to song.

It's probably still a couple months till all pieces are in place, but I already can't wait to find out what this project is going to sound like :hyper:

IMHO it should be vol/vol/mid-control/tone, unless you want a concentric vol/vol - mid-control-tone, allowing 2 holes to be for a preamp (which I highly doubt it once you listen to the Villex tone). Taking a bout the 5th hole I do have an idea, but the bill goes higher. Let me know if you want to listen to my idea; it makes the hole in your pocket bigger, but it's worth IMHO and IME

Right now, I'm thinking vol/vol/tone knobs, plus villex-mid-control and series/parallel switches might fit the bill for my project. No preamp does make the whole thing cheaper, and keeping it 100% passive might be a good idea, after all.

But what's your idea? Let's see if I can do whatever it is..

If you add the PRTB (Passive Rotary Tone Booster) in the 5th hole. You will thank me later for that

If you add the PRTB (Passive Rotary Tone Booster) in the 5th hole. You will thank me later for that

Might do that. Just received my paycheck, and it was just a little bit fatter than usual this month. In fact it happens to be exactly-the price-of-a-tone-booster fatter :D

Wouldn't it be kind of redundant with the Villex mid-booster, tho? And wouldn't wiring be kind of a nightmare to have all of

-vol
-vol
-tone
-mid booster
-rotary booster

in place of the knobs?

The mid-control is way different than the PRTB. The mid-control "morphs" the mids (allowing for a multitude of tones from the Villex pickup(s), while the PRTB boosts lows and low mids bringing a different life into the instrument.

The wiring is very straight forward.

Just a hint: play for few days without the PRTB. Only then use it, and realize that the bass you have has had the BEST treat ever, in terms of tone and versatility

delano xtender (the quadcoil) are really nice for fretless

The mid-control is way different than the PRTB. The mid-control "morphs" the mids (allowing for a multitude of tones from the Villex pickup(s), while the PRTB boosts lows and low mids bringing a different life into the instrument.

The wiring is very straight forward.

Just a hint: play for few days without the PRTB. Only then use it, and realize that the bass you have has had the BEST treat ever, in terms of tone and versatility

Okay. So I'm thinking about getting P (neck)+ J(bridge) Villex pups, on EMG40 enclosures, for a greater variety of sounds, and split coil (do they make split coil J?) in order to avoid hum. That, plus the mid booster, plus the PRTB. Does that sound good? I'm about to pull the trigger here, so stop me if I'm doing something wrong...

If I unexpectedly freak out, I might still get the Delanos+Delano preamp instead, tho... :confused: Seymour Duncan, on the other hand, would be a lot cheaper and easier to get... oh, the dilemma!

Villex makes split coil pickups (the PJ set you are looking at is the VPJLH).

They controls (pots) will be vol/vol/mid-control/tone/ PRTB. It sounds fantastic (I have incorporated this wiring scheme in two basses so far, waiting for another two sets to arrive in the next 15 days or so)

The mid-control is NOT a mid-boost. It changes the "character" of the pickup, allowing for a variety of tones from the pickup(s). The PRTB is the booster and does it in a very musical way (you can have a better understanding looking at the Villex website)

Mail sent and promptly responded to. The price calculation he sent me seems reasonable, I'm ordering it now (two pickups, midcontrol, prtb).

Thanks everyone for the help in this matter. Now comes the worst part: the long wait... I'll update this once I have the pups installed (should be a while... at least a month, probably)

I am on the waiting list too, if that makes you feel better. The result is worth the waiting period. Trust me

I am on the waiting list too, if that makes you feel better. The result is worth the waiting period. Trust me

Actually, the fact that there's a waiting list *does not* make me feel better :rollno:

Yea, the hard part is that, even after the pickups are complete, it still takes a minimum of two weeks (up to over a month) for stuff shipped from the US to get here. I mean, it does travel quickly (3-5 days), but the customs office tends to sit on top of stuff for a while... :scowl:

How long does it usually take for Villex to manufacture a pair of pups?

[edit: whoa, the man does answer very quickly! he said it takes five days for him to manufacture the parts. Not too bad, after all :D)

The waiting list is never on the "several-months" scale. it's more on the "week or two". And yes, Mr Villex replies very fast

http://www.wdmusic.co.uk/product/SOAPBAR_BASS_PU_4_STRING_BRIDGE_HB4E3B


Please, just have a look at these. I think they'd match it fine. The buy an OBP-pres, with a switch from Active-to-Passive. These are both active and passive pickups. Perfect match. Or maybe no pre-amp and full passive system? Have a Series/parallel switch in you main volume????

You've made a wise choice with the Villex set up. William won't keep you waiting long, sounds like your shipping will be the longer wait.

Fullrange is right. The booster is not the same as the built in mid control. I wasn't able to use the rotary booster due to space constraints in my bass, but I added the booster with the on/off switch. The booster is just before the jack, after the RMC piezo buffer. It boosts the mids of the piezos and mags, whereas the mid control only affects the mags. The booster does more than mids, I can only imagine the PRTB would give you even more possibilities. The mid control for the pickups does really affect the tone. You were wise to go with the split-coil J pickups, I had a customer who installed the single coils and they were too noisy for him. I think Villex has mastered the split-coils.

How long does it usually take for Villex to manufacture a pair of pups?

[edit: whoa, the man does answer very quickly! he said it takes five days for him to manufacture the parts. Not too bad, after all :D)

You won't be waiting long. William is very quick, Custom Kent Armstrongs took much longer. Be patient. It's worth the wait.

Holy smokes! The pickups are here already! That's gotta be the fastest transit I've ever had for an (USA->Brazil) international order, coupled with a very fast build time and an incredible email response time... That's 18 days from the day I decided to buy the pups to them being in my eager hands... unbelievable.

Trouble is, I don't even have a bass to install my Villex pups on, yet!! I'm still waiting for the new bass to be completed in the luthier shop, will be a couple weeks still, probably... gah! I'm almost eager enough to pull the pups off my current bass and install these villex even before the new bass is done.

I'll update again once I have them up and running. I don't know about their sound, but guys: service-wise, I couldn't be a happier customer!

So I finally had a chance to install them. Unfortunately, one of the pickups doesn't work! after a couple hours of careful exploration, my technician found out one of the wires in broken inside the casing, so he cannot fix it locally. I've contacted mr. Villex and he told me send it back for a replacement. He even said he'd throw something extra in for the inconvenience, which is a great act :)


The one pickup that does work, whoa. It's surprised me in every aspect, but especially in the versatility of tones obtainable and in the output power allowed by the Passive Rotary Tone Booster. I'm still working to find the exact "warm" tone I'm looking for, but I tell you, with mids, tone, and PRTB maxed, this thing sings over any pack of distorted guitars and loud drums better than my EMGs ever could!

I still haven't even put them in the configuration I want them (fretless, flatwound), btw

Sorry to hear you had a faulty pickup, but accidents do happen and at least William is going to make it right.

Glad you like them so far. Keep us updated!

I am happy that you like the tone so far. I am in love with the Villex tone (the whole range of tones, in fact). Keep us posted over the final results

Darkolini's, but warminelli.

You should also consider Aero pickups which is perfect for the sound you're looking for.

Wow, it's really been five months.

So after a string of unlucky events, I finally have my Villex bass complete. The Villex service was outstanding, but unfortunately the first time around one of the pickups had a bad wire, which happened to be broken just inside the casing, so I couldn't fix it locally. I sent my pickup back to Villex, but USPS somehow lost it in transit... it took another month, but they finally found it. After receiving and examining the faulty pup, William quickly replaced it and sent me a new one, but the Mail Service in Brazil just happened to go on strike for two weeks meanwhile... Oh well. It finally got here yesterday.

So right now, my new bass fitted with EMGs is ready and rocking, and my old bass has been de-fretted and equipped with flatwounds, just as planned. I finally have the bridge Villex pup installed, too.

The sound on the fretless+flats+villex is great! There's a huge amount of tone tweakability available (it does lose some output volume if the mids pot is rolled off, tho; easily compensated by boosting it with a pedal). The mids pot and PRTB totally transform the sound, to the amazement of my luthier, who had never seen a totally passive system as versatile as this. During my testing, the tone pot was great at transforming the characteristics of the attack, making it very soft or somewhat harsh, but never too trebly or clanky. Overall, solid lows and mids, great organic tone with just the right amount of growl. I'm not going to go around slapping and popping in this bass, but that was obviously never the point of this project.

I've been able to dial in a full, sweet fretless sound and get some tasty mwah going on, and that's what I plan to use the bass for, mostly. I can also tune it to straight-out P-style rocking, so it can actually work as a replacement if my main bass is unavailable (of course in that case I need to be mindful of the left-hand positioning, tho, what with it being fretless and all). It also sounds great in a live mix, cutting through nicely in a full band with drums and distorted guitars.

I guess now all I have to do is to thank you guys for helping me successfully complete this project, and add my own recommendation for a quality product and great service. And now, to wrap my mind around playing a bass with no frets. Cheers!

Wow, it's really been five months.

So after a string of unlucky events, I finally have my Villex bass complete. The Villex service was outstanding, but unfortunately the first time around one of the pickups had a bad wire, which happened to be broken just inside the casing, so I couldn't fix it locally. I sent my pickup back to Villex, but USPS somehow lost it in transit... it took another month, but they finally found it. After receiving and examining the faulty pup, William quickly replaced it and sent me a new one, but the Mail Service in Brazil just happened to go on strike for two weeks meanwhile... Oh well. It finally got here yesterday.

So right now, my new bass fitted with EMGs is ready and rocking, and my old bass has been de-fretted and equipped with flatwounds, just as planned. I finally have the bridge Villex pup installed, too.

The sound on the fretless+flats+villex is great! There's a huge amount of tone tweakability available (it does lose some output volume if the mids pot is rolled off, tho; easily compensated by boosting it with a pedal). The mids pot and PRTB totally transform the sound, to the amazement of my luthier, who had never seen a totally passive system as versatile as this. During my testing, the tone pot was great at transforming the characteristics of the attack, making it very soft or somewhat harsh, but never too trebly or clanky. Overall, solid lows and mids, great organic tone with just the right amount of growl. I'm not going to go around slapping and popping in this bass, but that was obviously never the point of this project.

I've been able to dial in a full, sweet fretless sound and get some tasty mwah going on, and that's what I plan to use the bass for, mostly. I can also tune it to straight-out P-style rocking, so it can actually work as a replacement if my main bass is unavailable (of course in that case I need to be mindful of the left-hand positioning, tho, what with it being fretless and all). It also sounds great in a live mix, cutting through nicely in a full band with drums and distorted guitars.

I guess now all I have to do is to thank you guys for helping me successfully complete this project, and add my own recommendation for a quality product and great service. And now, to wrap my mind around playing a bass with no frets. Cheers!

I am very happy that you like the tone and the very versatile tones that Villex pickups and electronics offer. The mid control does cut mids (when full counter clock wise) but adds a little hi-mid notch too (not a mere mid-cut); the mids are the easiest heard frequencies, thus the slight volume "reduction" (check the lows and highs that remain intact :hyper:). Plus I've realized that but using the PRTB and using the mid-control (counter clockwise) allows for some VERY slap friendly tones (never thin or hollow, never brittle or harsh) if one needs them

Yea, I'm absolutely sure they can yield some nice slap tones with the mids turned counter-clockwise, but on a fretless with flatwound strings it's just not going to work ;)

Btw, if anyone's wondering, I'm using a pair of split Villex pups (P-like). I'm not too much into the usual Jazz sound, myself.

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