Anybody know where to find the REAL fake books in the state of VA...I mean like the copyright infringing one...I had a friend who got one from somewhere in Charlottesville, but I haven't been in contact with him in awhile.

On the one hand, the Real Book is a very handy compendium for learning the Standard Canon.

On the other hand, copyright infringing fake books like the Real Book and its ukelele-chord predecessors steal money from creative composers. Don't you snicker, either: Imagine how many copies of the Real Book are out there! Listen to what Jimmy Heath has to say about composers' royalties some time, and you'll be a believer, too!

When I was buying a fake book for my twelve-year-old tenor-playing son, I solved my dilemma by buying a used Real Book. "It's already there, so the harm's done," I suppose. At least the "original" pirates didn't get my money this time.

In any event, it's no secret that you can find Real Books on EBay for about forty bucks. Or you can search around TalkBass.com and find the online .pdf versions.

And to add my 2 bits, I think that the ease with which the Sher books can be purchased, compared with the difficulty in locating the illegal Real Book, means that the illegal version is being gradually supplanted among players...

-dh

Also - those books have a lot of mistakes in them. I was at Jazz Summerschool recently and on several Jam sessions we noticed this, as one guy had an Illegal book whereas most people had Sher books. It was quite clear where there were differences that the Sher was right and the other wrong!

Originally posted by Bruce Lindfield
Also - those books have a lot of mistakes in them. I was at Jazz Summerschool recently and on several Jam sessions we noticed this, as one guy had an Illegal book whereas most people had Sher books. It was quite clear where there were differences that the Sher was right and the other wrong!

Actually, the Real Book was started by musicians because most commercial sheets were innacurate.
So to me, it's the other way round, even if sheet music editors have highly improved over the years.

Originally posted by Jazz Ad


Actually, the Real Book was started by musicians because most commercial sheets were innacurate.
So to me, it's the other way round, even if sheet music editors have highly improved over the years.

I'm not sure what you mean there - I was just saying that the Sher Real Books are more accurate than the illegal ones - I didn't mention sheet music as such? :confused:

I think that the Real Book may have evolved out of the jazz pedagogy, which focuses on the ii-V-I progression. Same goes for the Aebersold standard books.

Ever read a tune like "Over the Rainbow" or "Star Eyes" from the orginial sheet music? Very different from how a jazz player would interperet it.

Originally posted by Ed Fuqua

If you gotta have a book, at least the Sher books pay the composers royalties.
But why not try it the old fashioned way? Get some records and start taking the stuff off.

Actually this relates back to the other cvonversation about "Red Clay" - so I picked up the bass line from just listening to the record - but one guy had a really old illegal fake book and there, it had been transposed into a more horn-friendly key and simplified, but I knew I was right as I was just going by what was played on the record!

Originally posted by Bruce Lindfield
but I knew I was right as I was just going by what was played on the record!

That's one thing about jazz... there is no "right." There's good and bad,and baaad. Play what goes with what's happening and don't worry about what was on the record or in the fake book.

Originally posted by David Kaczorowski


That's one thing about jazz... there is no "right." There's good and bad,and baaad. Play what goes with what's happening and don't worry about what was on the record or in the fake book.

Well - you can say that, but if you have half the band playing a chord sequence and head, that's a semi-tone away from the other, then you aren't going to have the desired effect ! ;)

Of course in this case I was only talking about the head - once it got into the solos, then it sounded as far away from Freddie Hubbard's recording as you could imagine! ;)

I play with a guitarist who pulls tunes off of recordings, he usually wont play a tune at our gig that he has to read through. He will make sure he knows the tune the next week though, WITHOUT the book!
I admire that, using the book is like using a tuner, you'll never really get the sounds in your ears when a book is is telling you what's next.
I'm in the middle of trying to kick a smoking and real book habit, I don't know which is harder!

Jazz ad, what is the Korg Bass effects users group. Is that a kind of 12 step program for guys who really wanna kick the habit of bass effects?:D

Originally posted by mike da mook
Jazz ad, what is the Korg Bass effects users group. Is that a kind of 12 step program for guys who really wanna kick the habit of bass effects?:D That's an idea.
I tend to use them too much.
The audience seems to like it though.
If I had to choose an upright player as a model, it would be Eberhard Weber, bassist for the Ian Garbarek Group.
Just so you can get the idea.

I just wanted to react to Samuel's post way up there. I've thought about the copyright thing myself, and I know I sure as heck don't want to be taking money out of a fellow musician's pocket.

In the Napster heydey, this crossed my mind from time to time as I stuffed my hard drive with stuff I'd never seen before and thought I'd never see again. Stuffed like crazy before the lights inevitably went out on it (and bought more music that year than ever before, I must say.) Because I'm so into old stuff, I rationalized it by saying that the real artist is dead by now. So are the guys who ripped off the artist in the first place. It's probably a pretty poor rationalization, but one thing I do know about the music biz is that the artists are usually last in line when it comes to getting their fair share.

It's a tough call. The Real Book came into existence because there was nothing like it before then (unless you wanted to pay for legit copy, but then you're not seeing someone else's ideas for extended/altered harmony, as Ed points out.) The Sher books exist now largely because the Real Books have been stomped (still available, though. On the 2xbass list a few weeks back, there was a guy who had a CD with all the Reals on it, in all clefs. Heres's a website -- http://www.philipasmith.com/progression.asp -- where there's an index of all the tunes on all kinds of fake books.)

What I'd like is for the Sher stuff, or other similar quality stuff, to be available instantly over the net. Anyone know if that's available anywhere?

I have to agree with Ed regarding the notorious inaccuracies in the Real Book. I use them 'cause I've had them since college. Having said that, I have rewritten more melodies and changes than I care to count.

In the past couple of days I have heard the rationalization a couple of times that since most of the money you pay for music goes to the record company, the music should actually be free, therefore its ok to download it. I totally disagree. The record company is ripping off the artist, so its somehow a charitable act to the artist for the consumer to rip off the record company? I don't buy that. This devalues the artist and the intrinsic value of his/her work and time. We need to keep our standards high and whenever we have a chance to buy directly from musicians, do so.

Ed & lerm, I completely, completely agree with you. Two wrongs don't make a right, etc. I was thinking of the widows and families when I wrote the post, but I was also thinking of instances where the the rights have been commodified and have passed through many hands. You may be looking at some cases where there is no real connection left to the artist at all.

But I can't know about eveyone's situ-tation, so the best thing to do is be lawful. If I did have that knowledge, though, well, let's just say that I might tilt the calculation a bit in some cases.

In looking around, I believe I'm clean except for the hard drive booty. My old Real Book went missing on me, and I've got a couple of Sher books. One of the guys in my longtime R&B band is a lawyer and moralist and philosopher, and we have spent many hours chewing this over. I think he taught me right.

I'm not interested in acquiring bootleg music over the web. What I'm interested in is acquiring legit stuff quickly and in onesies and twosies, not a whack that I don't want. I feel the same way about TV (I burned mine), books and all media.

Damon - my post was not really targeted at you beyond the commonality it had with someting a friend of mine wrote re: 'sharing' files. I AM NOT INNOCENT! I am not on higher moral ground here, I am just stating for my benefit as well as everyone elses' that in order to aspire to a day where artists actually are the primary beneficiaries of the fruits of their labor, we need to preserve the idea that an artist's work has value, regardless of how that value is being misassigned....ie I don't want to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

My friend's comment actually seemed to have a Socialist basis - his point was that the value of an object is intrinsically tied to the means of production. If the costs of record exec's luxury items and cd packaging are eliminated in favor of electronic distribution, there are no production costs and therefore no need to charge. But he missed the extremely large point that artists are currently (in many cases, not all) being basically given reduced value for their work/product, and that balance needs to be tilted, resulting in (probably) a smaller cost (but a cost nonetheless) for the end product with less middle men.

To completely extrapolate, too many causes are being hijacked these days. The peace people are going to get hijacked by extremists of all kinds, and the people in favor of reform of the record industry are gonna get hijacked by the people who just want free s&|+.

At least that's how old Lerm sees it on this rainy day in P-town.

And to put my money where my mouth is in terms of assigning value and free stuff, I am going to finally go get my credit card and become a supporting member of this board. Lord knows I spend enough time here.

ok well i just gave them some cash, hopefully they will reciprocate by posting my lame avatar within the next 48 hours.

Hey, now you're costing me money, outing me if front of everyone! Can't a guy slip under the radar anymore?

I will not go into the details of my rather roccoco financial life, but let's just say I'm gonna put my money where my mouth is soon as I can. As many of you may have gleaned by now, my mouth is kinda big...

A couple of years ago, The Atlantic Monthly ran a long article on the history of the music business. It was called, I believe, "The Celestial Jukebox". Fascinating. I'd never seen such a good historical overview of the business of music. Like most commercial history, there is much to be ashamed of. Filthy lucre everywhere. And, to end on a provocative note, what's the current outcome? Britney Spears, Brooks & Dunn, and no more places to play live. George Jones wouldn't even get a second look from the biz if he was starting out today...

Sorry Damon.

There is so much crap out there, think of all the money left for the rest of us if they just cut the fat right off the top.

s'all right, LG. I shoulda put one of those wink smilies in there...

I don't want to sound monkish (and I don't mean thelonious) or mystic, but: money's temporary. Making good music with good people feels like a higher standard to shoot for. Ya play it for love, not money, ya got the order right.

Hehe, I think very few of us are in it for the money...