I have one month left to be able to play my bass before I go back to college. I want to learn to improvise jazz solos. Is getting a teacher for one month worth it, or is this something I should be able to learn on my own with no problems?

If you want to get as good as you can in jazz, you're better off finding someone that knows what they're doing that can show you what to do, i.e. a teacher. So yeah, a good teacher would be worth it.

From what I hear, good teachers are worth their weight in banana pudding. And with something like improvising jazz lines, I think it would be WELL worth it to get one, even if only for a month. Mind you, this is just hearsay and speculation, as I've never had the honor of having a teacher.

Well, the thing is, if I was trying to get the best I possibly could I would definitely get the teacher. But I'm only playing as a hobby. I want to learn enough just so I can have fun playing. I have utmost respect for musicians, but I just don't have the talent to become one myself.

I just want to learn enough so that I can teach myself the rest in the future, if you guys understand my meaning. I can't take lessons forever.

Then definitely just take a few to get you started on jazz. A good teacher will show you enough to understand the basic concepts of soloing and tell you the best way to do it on your own.

Honestly though, if it's possible and you have enough spare cash you should try to keep good lessons.

Yes. A good one, that is.

Man I don't even know where to start. First of all, "fun" is a relative term. My nephew playing t-ball may be having just as much fun as A-Rod (less the whole Madonna thang), it only gets a little weird if my nephew only wants to put in the t-ball work but wants the A-Rod results. That, in the immortal words of Joe Henderson, is " NOT happenin'".

If all you want to do is dick around a little, there is absolutely no need to get a teacher. But you will never ever play jazz music with any depth without working on skill sets with folks who already have those skill sets. Every major jazz musician has worked in either a formalized setting (like Ray Brown with Rheinshagen) or informally with more knowledgable bandmates, (like Ray Brown with Dizzy). Not to learn to improvise (almost every human action is an improvisation, it's what we do), but to learn the skill sets necessary to hear clearly enough our internal melody and have the wherewithal to get that out into the air without impediment. To play with meaning and intent and in a true and personal voice is the goal and that's really hard to get to by yourself. There are those cats out there who can invent a whole martial art by watching a couple of bugs fight, if you're not one of those folks, you are not going to get very deep into "studying for a month and then teaching" yourself.

Do what you want, but I been there. After 20 years of slugging it out on my own, I started studying with my teacher about 11 years ago. I've made more progress in those 11 years than in the prior 20.

And for the second time in two days, Ed posts the perfect response.

I think that you'll find that many of your idols aren't quite the musical geniuses you want them to be.. they got where they are with lots and lots of experience and hard work.

So, if you want to be great, don't sell yourself short... find a way to pay for lessons, find some people to play with, and get down to business.

I don't know...I still think you guys are thinking way too far ahead.

Ed, when I said fun, I mean like playing it as a hobby. I treat practice in sort of the same way I treat exercise. It gives you a nice feeling of accomplishment, and unlike working out, sometimes the practice itself is really enjoyable. I'm pretty much set on a career in investment banking, which isn't going to leave me much time to make any huge progress. I play for like 2 hours a day...probably not very much by you guys, but its about as much time as I have on weekdays when I have work.

I'm just worried that having a teacher is going to be sort of overkill for me. I expect I'll never see any sort of monetary benefit from music, so whatever money I spend on a teacher is basically like spending money on a vacation or a new TV or something, it's going to be purely a luxury. It's more than that, of course. I think of it more as like part of a liberal arts education. I know some friends who play guitar just fine without a teacher, and I feel kind of bad spending money when they didn't.

What do your guitar friends play? Do they play the kind of music you're looking to play? Are you those guitar players? If the answer to any of those questions is no, there really is no point in comparing yourself to them in such a regard because you will learn differently from them. They're in a different situation than yours, and they've probably had much more time to play compared to you.

They played all played in high school jazz band. They all had some background with orchestra though. I think I'm the only one who played a brass instrument(french horn). I just never got a chance to play in jazz band because I didn't know how to play any instruments that would be useful. I really regret not picking up something like the trombone, or else I would've learned how to improvise by now.

I don't know...I still think you guys are thinking way too far ahead.

Ed, when I said fun, I mean like playing it as a hobby. I treat practice in sort of the same way I treat exercise. It gives you a nice feeling of accomplishment, and unlike working out, sometimes the practice itself is really enjoyable. I'm pretty much set on a career in investment banking, which isn't going to leave me much time to make any huge progress. I play for like 2 hours a day...probably not very much by you guys, but its about as much time as I have on weekdays when I have work.

I'm just worried that having a teacher is going to be sort of overkill for me. I expect I'll never see any sort of monetary benefit from music, so whatever money I spend on a teacher is basically like spending money on a vacation or a new TV or something, it's going to be purely a luxury. It's more than that, of course. I think of it more as like part of a liberal arts education. I know some friends who play guitar just fine without a teacher, and I feel kind of bad spending money when they didn't.

I think you just answered your own question. Ed must have confused you with somebody who really wanted to learn jazz or something.

I'm just worried that having a teacher is going to be sort of overkill for me. I expect I'll never see any sort of monetary benefit from music, so whatever money I spend on a teacher is basically like spending money on a vacation or a new TV or something, it's going to be purely a luxury. It's more than that, of course. I think of it more as like part of a liberal arts education. I know some friends who play guitar just fine without a teacher, and I feel kind of bad spending money when they didn't.

No, no, no.. you have it all wrong.

A teacher will cut down your practice time.. There is a big difference in messing around and practicing. If you aren't focused, you aren't really practicing, you are just messing around, and that doesn't do a whole lot to improve your playing.

The teacher will help you focus on the things you need to do to improve, and rarely do they require mundane repetitive excercises (like running on a treadmill). If you practice for a half hour a day (about what I do) but are focused on improving your playing in manageable bites, then you are going to progress much further then some guy who noodles around for hours on end.

So why did you become an investment banker? So you could make lots of money, right? And why did you want that money? Probably to have the luxury to do stuff you want to do, right (like take bass lessons)? Paying a teacher is way different than buying a TV.. a TV is a disposable item... learning to play music is an investment in your personal development.

Even if you do get into lessons, it is possible that it may take some time to find a teacher who you mesh really well with. On top of that, it sounds like you are going into it with the wrong attitude to begin with. I don't see much value in taking a only a couple lessons unless you already know that person has some specific skill that you want to pick up. Did you learn investment banking in two half hour lessons?

They played all played in high school jazz band. They all had some background with orchestra though. I think I'm the only one who played a brass instrument(french horn). I just never got a chance to play in jazz band because I didn't know how to play any instruments that would be useful. I really regret not picking up something like the trombone, or else I would've learned how to improvise by now.

soo.. now you are blaming your lack of being able to play on the french horn being useless in jazz? Are you smoking crack? I sure hope you aren't watching over any of my investments..

Well, you've convinced me. You probably shouldn't take lessons. Or even bother playing bass for that matter. It is pretty much a useless instrument too.. after all it only has 4 strings.

soo.. now you are blaming your lack of being able to play on the french horn being useless in jazz? Are you smoking crack? I sure hope you aren't watching over any of my investments..

Well, you've convinced me. You probably shouldn't take lessons. Or even bother playing bass for that matter. It is pretty much a useless instrument too.. after all it only has 4 strings.

No no no, I meant that you can't audition for jazz band with a french horn. At least not where I went to school. I played classical music for 4 years, so I know some theory and stuff. I just can't improvise because I never learned any jazz.

I'm saying like, if I learned some instrument back then that allowed me to audition for jazz band, I probably would've had to learn how to improvise much earlier out of necessity, so I wouldn't be asking about it now.

I found a teacher who was willing to give me a trial lesson for free to see if it fits my situation. I'll go give it a try and see if I want to pay for more. Thank you for your feedback.

Some teacher gave you a lesson for free, and your an investment banker?

Really?

Any "reliable/good/respected/effective" teacher I went to (I've had over ten different ones) ALWAYS charged me.
And believe me, I asked...but any good teacher will say no, my rate is my rate. PLEASE don't base your decision to play bass and continue to pursue you desire to follow the music inside you on "one free lesson". Or a few teacher trails, free or not.

How old are you? I am very familiar with the IBD field, and usually when starting out, you don't have 2 hours a day for yourself.

But, older investment banking people have made lots of money, and have no issues about spending it on what they want.

So, that is why I can't figure out your approx age.

The reason I am trying to. Know that, is if you are 99 years old, don't do it. (Well maybe still do take lessons). Why? Because you will not be around long enough to enjoy your music.

But is you are younger, and you like and enjoy music, yes PAY for lessons, GOOD lessons, and find a teacher that works well WITH you.

Yes, sorry to say, this might take some time, might take some money, and may not give immediatte noticable results.

But if you DON'T do it, and DON'T try, you will never know how the "musical" part of your life will turn out.

Your have classical training. You have an extreme work ethic. You have disposible income. You have (or claim to have) 2 hours a day to practice.

So, take 600 dollars, set aside 6 months, and try out some good teachers/lessons.

I am not telling you what to do, and how to spend your money, but I bet when you go to work Monday morning, you will be wearing clothes WORTH more than 600 dollars--- so figure it out---

What do you want to spend your money on.

Sometimes the experience you have, and the joy you get from that experience, you can't put a price on that.


So, separate yourself from your money, and give it a try.

You will learn more with a good teacher. IMHO


I am not being sarcastic, but some of the responses here are almost on the verge of sarcastic, because of the the following issues...


Mostly it comes down to you have to reframe your thinking.

These are the issues as I see it.

0NE
You have some high school instruction, so you are not "starting at square zero"

-this is good. You know music a little

TWO
You want to learn jazz and don't think its worth the time investment

-any time and effort you put in, will be an experience and an improvement on the self. No one can take that away from you.

THREE
You are in a high paying field of work, that employs hard working if not intelligent people

- you don't have to work extra shifts bartending like some people to afford lessons. And you will get the MOST out of lessons beacuse you are smart and work hard

FOUR
You have time set aside in your day to practice.

- you have a plan already! 2 hours is a long time per day to practice if done consistantly, and you practice the right things (a teacher will guide you here)

FIVE
You found free trail lessons

- hey at least you are starting out. You took the lessons because they were free (tell the truth). Are the shoes you wear to work, were they free? No. They were good quality. You paid. You enjoy them. You look good and feel good walking in them. Don't decide the teacher/no teacher dilemma on one free lesson.

Unless, the teacher is awesome. Then give us their number!


Good luck. Lighten up. Enjoy the music that is inside you. Enjoy the fact you want to get it out of you and share it with others.

I think I am going to practice now! You have inspired me a little to get better and bring out thw music inside of ME.

Thanks! Let us know how you do, and give us (and yourself) some honest feedback on your progress.


Good luck!

Some teacher gave you a lesson for free, and your an investment banker?

Really?

Any "reliable/good/respected/effective" teacher I went to (I've had over ten different ones) ALWAYS charged me.
And believe me, I asked...but any good teacher will say no, my rate is my rate. PLEASE don't base your decision to play bass and continue to pursue you desire to follow the music inside you on "one free lesson". Or a few teacher trails, free or not.

How old are you? I am very familiar with the IBD field, and usually when starting out, you don't have 2 hours a day for yourself.

But, older investment banking people have made lots of money, and have no issues about spending it on what they want.

So, that is why I can't figure out your approx age.

The reason I am trying to. Know that, is if you are 99 years old, don't do it. (Well maybe still do take lessons). Why? Because you will not be around long enough to enjoy your music.

But is you are younger, and you like and enjoy music, yes PAY for lessons, GOOD lessons, and find a teacher that works well WITH you.

Yes, sorry to say, this might take some time, might take some money, and may not give immediatte noticable results.

But if you DON'T do it, and DON'T try, you will never know how the "musical" part of your life will turn out.

Your have classical training. You have an extreme work ethic. You have disposible income. You have (or claim to have) 2 hours a day to practice.

So, take 600 dollars, set aside 6 months, and try out some good teachers/lessons.

I am not telling you what to do, and how to spend your money, but I bet when you go to work Monday morning, you will be wearing clothes WORTH more than 600 dollars--- so figure it out---

What do you want to spend your money on.

Sometimes the experience you have, and the joy you get from that experience, you can't put a price on that.


So, separate yourself from your money, and give it a try.

You will learn more with a good teacher. IMHO


I am not being sarcastic, but some of the responses here are almost on the verge of sarcastic, because of the the following issues...


Mostly it comes down to you have to reframe your thinking.

These are the issues as I see it.

0NE
You have some high school instruction, so you are not "starting at square zero"

-this is good. You know music a little

TWO
You want to learn jazz and don't think its worth the time investment

-any time and effort you put in, will be an experience and an improvement on the self. No one can take that away from you.

THREE
You are in a high paying field of work, that employs hard working if not intelligent people

- you don't have to work extra shifts bartending like some people to afford lessons. And you will get the MOST out of lessons beacuse you are smart and work hard

FOUR
You have time set aside in your day to practice.

- you have a plan already! 2 hours is a long time per day to practice if done consistantly, and you practice the right things (a teacher will guide you here)

FIVE
You found free trail lessons

- hey at least you are starting out. You took the lessons because they were free (tell the truth). Are the shoes you wear to work, were they free? No. They were good quality. You paid. You enjoy them. You look good and feel good walking in them. Don't decide the teacher/no teacher dilemma on one free lesson.

Unless, the teacher is awesome. Then give us their number!


Good luck. Lighten up. Enjoy the music that is inside you. Enjoy the fact you want to get it out of you and share it with others.

I think I am going to practice now! You have inspired me a little to get better and bring out thw music inside of ME.

Thanks! Let us know how you do, and give us (and yourself) some honest feedback on your progress.


Good luck!

I'm in college, and working an internship, which means I'm not an investment banker and I don't make a big salary. I'm 20, if that's of any interest to you.

Anyway, I met with the teacher this morning. He told me it wasn't worth taking lessons right now because I can only get about 4 lessons, which just wasn't enough for something like improvisation. He gave me some book recommendations instead which he said if I studied I could probably learn to improvise from.

The books in question are The Total Jazz Bassist by David Overthrow and Tim Ferguson, and Building Walking Bass Lines, by Ed Friedland.

He told me I should really either ship my bass to where my school is, or get another bass/amp over there so I can practice, because college is a great time to learn an instrument. I'll be looking at the UPS prices.

get a good jazz bass teacher.

My friend, I think Jazz improv is beyond you.

You claim that you are only going to play as a light hobby, you don't have natural talent for music, you are wondering if Jazz music is something you can teach yourself...

Uh...no.
Considering you are not willing to make the HUGE investment of time necessary, without natural musical talent, no; you cannot teach yourself jazz. Jazz is NOT the easiest of styles and you don't sound like your practice sessions are even serious enough to actually benefit you even if you COULD teach yourself Jazz (which you cannot sine you have no natural talent musically).

Although you have the "utmost respect" for musicians, I think you don't quite understand just how time consuming the study of music can be. It takes LOTS of time in very disciplined, focused study & practice sessions to make good progress.

It doesn't sound like you are willing to pay the price necessary; therefore, since Jazz is one of the more complicated styles, you should probably focus your attention somewhere else.

Rock, Country, Bluegrass, etc. Many other styles are much easier to learn than Jazz. Without natural musical talent, improvisation is going to evade you most of the time and when you actually do get an idea...it will probably be medocre at best. I doubt you'll get the enjoyment out of playing jazz bass that you hope to.

Learning music and playing music can benefit from natural talent but don't require it...teaching YOURSELF music does require natural talent. Without it, most of what music is will evade you. Talent without discipline is a waste; however, without talent it's all about hard work and trying to force a round peg into a square hole. There are far more "musicians" on the planet than there are people who SHOULD BE musicians. There's nothing wrong with just enjoying and admiring the music of others.

I must agree,
in the wise words of the Ventures,
"walk,don't run"
or to Quote,"What About Bob?".. BABY STEPS....!

if u want to expand your musical vocabulary,so to speak, Jazz is the right direction,
the way out of the "pentatonic box".. :)
BUT..u have a lot to learn first.
take it slowly,methodically..and GET A GUITAR.


1.BUY A GUITAR
I'd suggest having a friend or instructor chart out some slightly more "interesting" guitar chords for you,Get a cheap guitar if you haven't got one.

If you you can recognize the sound of major vs a Minor chord..that's number one,always.
before u tackle jazz,learn major,minor chords and scales on a guitar and bass.
learn to spot them in music,what do maj or min chords
sound and feel like?

have somebody chart out some:
seventh chords
minor sevenths,
major sevenths,
diminished,
and augmented chords.
learn them in the same key first,maybe all in A.
(A minor 7,A major 7,etc)
learn them well, how to play them on a guitar,


2. learn to recognize them.
What does a major seventh sound/feel like??
or a diminished?..
..learn to spot the chords in songs you know..

for instance,"Mercy mercy(The Ecology)" by Marvin Gaye..
(the,"Brother,Brother..song")
that song has a Major 7th feel,it's all major seventh,baby..
or "Eyes of the World" by Grateful Dead,another Maj 7th song.

3. after you can spot the chords,and you know them on guitar,
learn the full scales..
go through my list,learn each one in scale form.those are the basics ones.
or,in other words,this is where u go,after you can spot major and minor.

Once you can play the chords,recognize their sounds..
and play the full scale on your bass...

4. you can try to incorporate them in your playing. use a little diminished scale here and there,try a minor arpeggio at the end of a minor-ish song..experiment with the scales.

5. when u know the chords I listed, you can try finding other versions of the same chords on the guitar neck.
There are many,many versions of an "A diminished" chord,
all over the fretboard,many forms and shapes to try,of the SAME chord!..

..Try linking your new guitar chords together,(the min7,maj 7,dim,etc..)

6.print some simple jazz standards off the net,(with guitar chords listed),
and follow the chords on your guitar,until you're playing songs.
remember!..the four lowest strings of these guitar chords can be used as
BASS CHORDS!


BOTTOM LINE??...once you can play a simple jazz chord progression on guitar,
you can tackle the bass part,

jazz bass is hard,
they tend to be walking bass parts,
where u need to know the scales so well,by heart,that you can improvise quickly enough to stay on a quarter-note walking bass pattern.
This requires alot of time studying the scales,and also listening to jazz,learning the cliches,and just absorbing alot of walking bass parts.

IMO, if u recognize the chords,and can play them,you can then understand a jazz bassline, If u fill your Ipod up with a truckload of Jazz,that's gonna help,

but studying,playing and seeing the chords,will help you grasp what they really are.

Good one yes - they're rare though..

one month.. you may be better finding someone near your new home

Being a teacher myself, I can say find yourself the most knowledgable person in your area to learn what you can from them. Just because they teach, does not make them a good teacher. I have studied from some of the best in the world, and some of the best were not good teachers, great players, but not teachers. about 18 years ago when I was in college, I studied from a pianist/trumpet player who taught at the college because his concepts worked and he taught in a manner that was easy to understand. It doesn't have to be a bass player as long as you know your instrument well enough to apply the concepts and theory. But remember you can have the best teacher in the world and it still come down to you working hard to develop what you learn bewteen lessons.

Good Luck,
Eric in TN

My friend, I think Jazz improv is beyond you.

You claim that you are only going to play as a light hobby, you don't have natural talent for music, you are wondering if Jazz music is something you can teach yourself...

Uh...no.
Considering you are not willing to make the HUGE investment of time necessary, without natural musical talent, no; you cannot teach yourself jazz. Jazz is NOT the easiest of styles and you don't sound like your practice sessions are even serious enough to actually benefit you even if you COULD teach yourself Jazz (which you cannot sine you have no natural talent musically).

Although you have the "utmost respect" for musicians, I think you don't quite understand just how time consuming the study of music can be. It takes LOTS of time in very disciplined, focused study & practice sessions to make good progress.

It doesn't sound like you are willing to pay the price necessary; therefore, since Jazz is one of the more complicated styles, you should probably focus your attention somewhere else.

Rock, Country, Bluegrass, etc. Many other styles are much easier to learn than Jazz. Without natural musical talent, improvisation is going to evade you most of the time and when you actually do get an idea...it will probably be medocre at best. I doubt you'll get the enjoyment out of playing jazz bass that you hope to.

Learning music and playing music can benefit from natural talent but don't require it...teaching YOURSELF music does require natural talent. Without it, most of what music is will evade you. Talent without discipline is a waste; however, without talent it's all about hard work and trying to force a round peg into a square hole. There are far more "musicians" on the planet than there are people who SHOULD BE musicians. There's nothing wrong with just enjoying and admiring the music of others.most of the jazz guys that you hear about started off young as students,who were recognized as talented and schooled......you have to know your instrument and music well enough to hear a few notes,instantly know where its going and be able to solo or comp until you get there ..

...its like being intuitive enough to finish the other guys sentences after hearing a few words......the nuts and bolts of it are scales,chords,and arpeggios,but being able to put them together on the fly into a coherent context is a lifes work,even for the gifted.....go to youtube and find

jj johnsons gone with the wind....its a paul chambers line on a standard

mingus..11 bs ....its the song from jerry mcquire sometimes called hatian fight song

sunday at the village vanguard....scott lafaro with bill evans

miles davis ....kind of blue

If you are putting in two consistent hours everyday, that's pretty good for a "hobbyist".

Take yer bass and amp to college and take a beginning piano class and a first year theory class.
Don't swamp yourself if you're going to be talking a bunch of business classes on top of basic academic classes.

Maybe find a GOOD local bass teacher or an advanced bass playing student to give you lessons.
One of the best ways to learn to improvise is playing over blues changes. These (http://aebersold.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=AEBBLU) are helpful and inexpensive.

If you just want to do it for fun, treat it fun. Your learning pace will be slower, but so what. You've got a whole lifetime to learn. No big.

Also find some local people to jam with or start a band.
If you want it lite - keep it lite! It's good to know you're willing to put in the time (2 hours a day) to learn.

Not sure for only a month however if you find a good one it may be worth it