Just what everyone's opinions are; High action better tone?
Low action sloppy? thats what i've come to think

Originally posted by nunk6
Just what everyone's opinions are; High action better tone?
Low action sloppy? thats what i've come to think

N6, You can't dig into a real low action setup without having to deal with string noise, but you can play it with a soft touch and make it sound great. On the other hand with a medium to high action you can dig in but you can still play with a soft touch to get the expression that you often need.

On the other hand, a low set up is easier to play physically. Most of my experience has been on URB. The difference in high action and low action is much more evident on URB but the principle is the same.

The action on my bass would probably be a medium to slightly high action. I believe it's a matter of choice rather than absolutes.

Because of the style of music I play, I prefer LOW action. I actually wouold like mine so low, that I could play my bass, just by breathing on it....:)

Ever since I figured out how to adjust the string height on my bridge I've had my action crazily low. Just high enough so that I can play every fret on every string with a semihard pluck with no real buzzing. In fact..when I first set the height, it was way too low. Everything past the 15th fret buzzed... I had it set that way like 2 weeks before I changed it..and yes I actually do play high sometimes.. I am just lazy.

I can definitely see how a high action would have it's place...but low is where it's at for me. Before I lowered it I really wanted to get a new 4 string, and my fretting hand got tired very easily. When I first lowered it, the first coherent thought in my mind was "wow..my bass feels $400 better now." My fretting hand feels a lot better now, but I still need work on my position. I am totally happy with my lowend peavey that I spent a whole $150 on now.

I'va always preferred a low action and I would say that this hasn't affected my tone - if anything I found it has been better like this. I suppose it depends on what tone you want - if you want to sound like James Jamerson or any of the Motown records, then you probably want a high action, but I don't particularly like that tone anyway.

I also find other advantages to low action - like better intonation higher up the neck. With a high action you are pulling these notes - just beyond the 12th fret - down quite a way and you are undoubtedly going to pull the intonation out, so if you are trying to play chords in this area, they are going to sound out of tune. Whereas with a low action, my basses intonate perfectly with open strings all the way to the 24th fret. You just can't do this with a high action.

I also think that witha high action you are going to have more chance of making mistakes and mis-fretting causing the tone to suffer. Now if you are only playing simple lines, then fair enough, you can have a high action, get a very rounded full tone and concentrate on each note. But I find that life is not that simple and playing fast runs, unison lines and tricky parts are a day to day thing, so low action is the only way to go. 16th notes with a high action, is just a non-starter for me, for example.

I prefer a high action. To me, it seems to add a "sweetness" of tone, almost like a URB. While low is nice for faster playing, I tend to dig in fairly hard (even on softer jazz songs) at some points through a song and I just hate the buzzing that it causes. I like my high action because it allows me to do everything without worrying about string buzz. Sure, it takes quite a while to get used to it - my hands used to hurt for a couple of hours after playing (yes, my action is extremely high) but now I'm used to it. Once you do get used to that higher action you'll find that it's also a lot easier to play faster with it. It's all about YOU though so do whatever suits you the best.

Deynn, what style of music DO you play, that involves the ultra-low action?

I like low-action too, but only because do tricky slap stuff so I dont have the chance to slap it hard.

I prefer very low action. I play with a really light touch though. Your tone will actually be better. Some guys say the complete opposite of this but they dig in more.
Jeff Berlin, Anthony Jackson, and Gary Willis all subscribe to the lighter touch and lower action ideal. Jeff and Anthony both adjust their neck so they are almost straight.
Im not quite sure how Gary does it but I bet its pretty straight. I think this works great. Of course your bass must have an impecable(sp?) fret job or you will get less than disirable results.

I also find other advantages to low action - like better intonation higher up the neck. With a high action you are pulling these notes - just beyond the 12th fret - down quite a way and you are undoubtedly going to pull the intonation out, so if you are trying to play chords in this area, they are going to sound out of tune. Whereas with a low action, my basses intonate perfectly with open strings all the way to the 24th fret. You just can't do this with a high action.

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Bruce, I respectfully disegree with your thoughts on intonation/high action. My bass is a cheap(relatively) bass and it intonates very nearly perfectly all the way to the 24th fret. In my opinion the compensation is there for just that reason. To correct for increasing string tension as a note is fretted. With an extremely low action it is impossible to get the sharp attack/slow decay envelope that is possible with a higher action. Keep in mind that a string doesn't just vibrate horizontally. It vibrates in an orbital motion that is made up of both hor. and vert. motion. At some point. if you keep going lower and lower with the action the vert. motion is going to reach the fingerboard.I.E. buzz. On the other hand, with a higher action, a soft touch with the picking hand will give you the same sound as a low action setup.

We might keep in mind that high and low are pretty subjective. What's low or high to me may be just the opposite to someone else.

Originally posted by Xeo
Deynn, what style of music DO you play, that involves the ultra-low action?

I like low-action too, but only because do tricky slap stuff so I dont have the chance to slap it hard.

I play a lot of original music which has an Eastern flavor to it. Also...I just have a light touch and find that I have NO problems playing any kind of music using low action.
I also have found that I do not have as many with my fretting hand with the low action. So there are also some physical aspects to my choice.

Originally posted by pkr2

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Bruce, I respectfully disegree with your thoughts on intonation/high action. My bass is a cheap(relatively) bass and it intonates very nearly perfectly all the way to the 24th fret. In my opinion the compensation is there for just that reason. To correct for increasing string tension as a note is fretted. With an extremely low action it is impossible to get the sharp attack/slow decay envelope that is possible with a higher action. Keep in mind that a string doesn't just vibrate horizontally. It vibrates in an orbital motion that is made up of both hor. and vert. motion. At some point. if you keep going lower and lower with the action the vert. motion is going to reach the fingerboard.I.E. buzz. On the other hand, with a higher action, a soft touch with the picking hand will give you the same sound as a low action setup.

We might keep in mind that high and low are pretty subjective. What's low or high to me may be just the opposite to someone else.

I must admit that I don't understand most of this at all. Fistly, what do you mean by "the compensation" ? The rest makes no sense at all to me as it doesn't fit in with my experience of playing hundreds of different basses, but I'm keeping an open mind on this.

As to intonation - OK, hold down a 3-note chord at 12th fret or just above. Now play each note individually, while checking the intonation with a tuner. Is each note spot-on with the tuner?

Yes, intonation (expecially with my high setup) is a killer! It takes forever just to setup the bridge so that it doesn't sound too horid and I still have to adjust a lot with my fingers, but that's the way I like it. Maybe I should consider getting a fretless bass? Anyway, it just adds to my "style". :)

High action, Low action ?!
I've pretty much stayed with the factory setup on my Fender P lite (japanese model but I love the sound!)
I have lowered it just a hair to correct intonation....but I find going to low causes problems with playing 'slap' styles...noisy.....

Low is where all the action is...at least for me...
With a good setup and a good fretjob I can get it as low as ca. 2mm's at the E-string (24th fret) and 1.2-1.5 mm at the G-string - without buzzing...and a great tone for all occasions - from groove work to slap,pop and tapping...But every fool is different (as we say in Cologne :D). I totally agree with theJello, deyn and pkr2. Just try to provide the best possible environment for your playing. Playing is a lot like sports technique-wise...there are certain sets of muscle motions that have to be performed on a subconcious level in order to enable the player to be creative...and you try to optimize the motions to reduce 'friction' or increase effectiveness...Playing bass is hard enough - no use in making it harder by not using the best possible setup...

Hope you're able to unterstand my English - it's only my second language, and a bit rusty...



[Edited by JMX on 09-12-2000 at 07:02 PM]

Action height really depends on the "gig" for me. When I play on Sunday morning at church, I like a low action. I run directly to the board and I play with a fairly light attack. However, on Saturday night, playing at full volume...that's another story. I prefer a higher action because I'm digging in much further.

BTW, this theory helps me justify multiple basses to my wife! "Well honey, these are my church basses and these are my......" ;)

Craig

Just a short update here: on the reccommendation of a friend of mine, I re-did the setup on my bass. I followed the instructions in a book that I got from Musician's Friend (can't remember the name right now).

I setup my bass so that the action is comperable to a Fender Jazz bass (the bass that mine is modeled after). Oh my, what a difference! Intonation is at least 10 to 15 cents better (measured on my Korg CA-20). The bridge saddles no longer have to be maxed out and playing overall is just so much easier. Wish I'd tried it before.

Every once in a while I get a little bit of buzz, but I think that's more due to my heavy attack (which I'm working on calming down).

There truely is a huge difference. It's like night and day! Oh, BTW, one thing that I do need to mention is that "tone" that I loved with my high action didn't change at all. Well, maybe it's actually slightly better - "thicker" if you will.

Congrats - welcome to the low action fan club!

I've got the kicker of all stories about action. I have two basses (A Kramer Baretta 422S and a Squier Affinity P-Bass). My Kramer is great, i've had it for a week now (it is a veteran! ;) ) I have not had to touch any of the settings, and it plays like a charm with low action, even though I sometimes get a slight buzz on the 1 or 2 frets when my finger slips between the pickups, but I normally play right over the bridge pickup, so no problem. My P-bass on the other hand is a piece of crap. I have to have the action set to like ONE FULL CENTIMETER off the fretboard, by adjusting the bridge, and on top of that, I have had to place stips of paper under the nut, becuase the damn thing leaves my E and !A! string resting on top of my 1st fret. No matter how light I touch the string, it buzzes... So my p-bass has now been adjusted again (finally found that damned alan wrench) and the bridge is WAY down now, but I have to leave the paper under the nut, or I still buzz. My strings start high off the board, and get lower as they go.. or else I buzz to death..Any ideas? I know this is not really on this topic, but kinda? right??

Thanks

I prefer a low action. I can do more with my fretting hand without cramping, like fast runs, octave jumps, triads, etc. Doing stuff like this with high action kills my hands and makes me play sloppy, but that's just me.

White Knight is right, it depends on what YOU like.

I like a low action with light strings. Plays like BUTTAH! High action makes me all VE CLEMP!

When I first got my Lakland 55-94, the neck was ram-rod straight and the action was low, so much so that there was a little buzzing on certain strings (yes, even on a Lakland). Since I am the type who cannot stand string buzz, I adjusted the relief a little. Maybe it's the way I play. I like to be able to feel the strings when I play.

Some modern bass greats, like Bakhiti Khumalo, likes very high action. To each his own, I suppose.

Hi all ,

The best way i have found to eliminate fret buzz and annoyance
is to use half rounds probably a medium gauge ..

To eliminate it completely use flatwounds again a medium gauge.. this is a little secret ive learned over the years playing in sessions as well as Rock / Country / Jazz bands all over the world .... At the end of the day its all personal preference dont forget because each player has their own unique tone ... well i would like to think anyway .. so experiment and have fun ,

R

High action is just uncomfortable and limiting

low is the opposite.


low and light touch for me. I don't "dig in". I don't even know what that means.

I go for a lot higher than I used to( I used to set my B string to 0.5 mm at the 29th fret.) Now I am at about 3.5mm.
I find it sounds better, but that may well be because I checked for the best sounding distance between the strings and the pick up, and decided to just try the higher thing over the board as well rather than just adjusting the pick up.
I like the feel .
I still play real soft.

Having mine set as low as possible works well for what I do. Unfortunately, I've had to raise mine just a bit until I can rework the frets. My 12th fret is worn down to the point where I get an ugly buzz when I play the C-string on the 12th fret. :(


Michael Manring's basses have the lowest action I've ever played. The strings practically melt into the fingerboard.

I like mine as low as humanly possible. It really makes playing fast runs so much easier. That's another reason I love playing fretless: I can get the action so much lower than on a fretted board.

mine don't have to be "sick low"...but it must be low...

I can't stand high action...feels spongy and icky!

2.5mm on the E-string at the 12th fret is as high as I can stand it...1.5-2mm is more my speed, however...

High action makes my hands tired. I can handle low action all day. Easier to slap too. I think high action can sound great, but for me personally, it's too tiring on those long practices/gigs. I think it makes for some good strength and endurance building though.

High enough to not buzz.. but low enough to be comfortable.

High enough to not buzz.. but low enough to be comfortable.

+1

I LIKE MEDIUM! REBEL!

What is high and what is low? It's kind of a subjective I think. Different gigs require different setups to some extent.

I find higher action results in a better tone, but there is of course a point where the opposite is true. I feel like a lot of our favorite bass tones (Jamerson, Jaco, Marcus, Chuck Rainey, Will Lee...etc) all resulted from probably not so low action and I generally like to hear guys digging in a bit. However, lots of beautiful (and very different) sounds are made by guys with low action. Some of my favorites are guys like Janek Gwizdala and Matt Garrison.

One thing I have found though is that thicker strings not only sound stronger, but by using them you can have you action lower and still maintain a solid tone. My ideal guages are (G-B): .050, .070, .085, .105, .130.

Action height is clearly a matter of personal preference. I like mine as low as I can get it without having too much buzz. I tend to play hard, though, so that isn't super low.

I read an interview with John Entwistle once where he commented that he like the action, "so low it's on the wrong side of the fretboard." His philosophy was that you shouldn't be using your fingers to do your amp's job. Always a light touch and a monster amp ...;)

It's a shame The Ox isn't still with us.

I keep mine as low as I can get it, but I play hard, and if I refuse to tolerate buzz or compromise my picking technique. As a result, my action is probably what I'd classify as "medium". Last weekend, we had a band up recording, and their bassist kept his action ludicrously low. He played it fine and I never heard any buzz, but I simply could not play it. It got terrible buzz above the 15th fret when I played it, and as often as I play up there, I simply could not play like that.

Hi all ,

The best way i have found to eliminate fret buzz and annoyance
is to use half rounds probably a medium gauge ..

To eliminate it completely use flatwounds again a medium gauge.. this is a little secret ive learned over the years playing in sessions as well as Rock / Country / Jazz bands all over the world .... At the end of the day its all personal preference dont forget because each player has their own unique tone ... well i would like to think anyway .. so experiment and have fun ,

R


Wow! How did you find this through seven years of dust?


...and I like it low. I think that you really perfect your touch when it is so sensitive.

Low action on my 6. When I get my 5, it will get a medium-low setup. I want the 5 to be a little more aggressive sounding and better for digging in. The 6 for stuff that needs a beautiful, clear sound; the 5 for rock, metal, and hardcore.

7 years of dust ?

I play aggressively and I prefer medium action. I Like it so that my hands get a work out but not too high that I'll start cramping.

My upright teacher played so much in college with a poorly set up bass that he got bad nerve damage in his shoulder. I like to feel the burn of a good workout on the bass, but not the pain of damaging my body, I'll put it that way.

Michael Henderson tried Jamerson's bass - he said "His strings were dead flatwounds, and his action was so high, you had to get your friend to help you play Bb! "

I don't hear any difference at all in tone based on action height. I DO hear differences based on playing technique. For me, a reasonably low action means I have more choices in technique without having to attack the strings hard. It also makes fretting with my left hand MUCH easier in the higher frets (which I don't use much).

What is high action....what is low action. Please measure at the 12th fret so we can get a discussion going on here.
Me
Fretted 5 = 4mm
Fretless 5 = 4.5mm from board to bottom of the string.

***OOPs missed some posts.. Wow you guys are playing super duper low IMO.

I guess I love the sound of pickups distorting before they hit the preamp....thats what I assume is happening.
Jonathan

Michael Henderson tried Jamerson's bass - he said "His strings were dead flatwounds, and his action was so high, you had to get your friend to help you play Bb! "

difficulty fretting the first two frets has less to do with action and a lot more to do with nut slots...

the other thing that could have been happening on JJ's bass was fret wear....From what I understand, Jamerson was of the "run what you brung" school and didn't do anything in the way of upkeep on his bass..given the shear number of hours that were put in on this bass, I'll bet those first few frets (where he liked to play) were QUITE worn.

What is high action....what is low action. Please measure at the 12th fret so we can get a discussion going on here.
Me
Fretted 5 = 4mm
Fretless 5 = 4.5mm from board to bottom of the string.

***OOPs missed some posts.. Wow you guys are playing super duper low IMO.

I guess I love the sound of pickups distorting before they hit the preamp....thats what I assume is happening.
Jonathan


On the 12th-fret E-string of my main bass (Yamaha RBX170) I measure 1.5mm to the top of the fret...that to me is quite low...

On the E-string of a cheap bass that I did my own fretwork on, I measure 2mm...to me, that is still low

ON the E-string of my Carvin AC40 it's also about 2mm...

On my wishbass, it's about 3mm to the board...that, to me is medium

For me, 4mm is beginning to get into the high range...

I have my action on my Jazz so low that there's just a bit of buzzing when i play on the frets 1-7. I like it that way, because it gives it more growl and character, i think. It's great.

3.5mm , but about as much tension as butter on hot bread.

4 or 5 years ago, I would have thought a bass was crap if it wasn't capable of 2/32 (1/16! :)) on all strings around fret 12 with minimal relief and light gauge strings. Those days I had somewhat of a light touch with my fingerstyle playing. As I picked up more experience and played with more players in "real musician" situations, I've trended higher and like medium gauge strings.

A quick check of my basses have them pretty consistent at around 4/32 bass side to 3/32 treble side at fret 12.

here's a little chart for converting from 32nds to inches to milimetres...

if you're action is greater than 10/32", YOU figure it out :D

32nds, Inches, Mm
1, 0.03, 0.79
2, 0.06, 1.59
3, 0.09, 2.38
4, 0.13, 3.18
5, 0.16, 3.97
6, 0.19, 4.76
7, 0.22, 5.56
8, 0.25, 6.35
9, 0.28, 7.14
10, 0.31, 7.94

thanks for the chart PilbaraBass!

ok so that means that my fretless converted Ibanez has 4.76mm on the bass side and 3.18mm on the treble side...something seems a little high about that to me...it's tough to play that bass (probably because of my homebrew conversion)

my 4-string warwick corvette, on the other hand, has 3.18mm on the bass side, and 2.38mm on the treble side....much easier and pleasing to play

have we decided what's considered high, medium, and low action? I propose 1/32-3/32 on the bass side is low action, 4/32-6/32 is medium action, and anything above 6/32 is high action. this all being at the 12th fret (or 12th "position" on the fingerboard). what do you all think?

I prefer very low action. I play with a really light touch though. Your tone will actually be better. Some guys say the complete opposite of this but they dig in more.
Jeff Berlin, Anthony Jackson, and Gary Willis all subscribe to the lighter touch and lower action ideal. Jeff and Anthony both adjust their neck so they are almost straight.
Im not quite sure how Gary does it but I bet its pretty straight. I think this works great. Of course your bass must have an impecable(sp?) fret job or you will get less than disirable results.

I totally buy into this philosophy as well. Playing with low action forces one to lighten his touch and clean up his technique in order to execute cleanly. The reward for doing so is - improved ease of playing that facilitates music-making on multiple levels... :cool:

MM

<SNIP>Everything past the 15th fret buzzed.>

Sounds like you had a little too much bow in your neck - tightening the truss rod helps when the fret buzz is only above the 12th fret, just as loosening the truss rod helps to eliminate fret bezz that occurs only below the 12th fret.

Average set up is 6/64" and 5/64" bass and treble respectively. This is how bass guitars are set up straight from most of the factories. Most players balk at action that is much higher. Much lower and the risk of rattles and buzzes increases exponentially. All of this is dependent on playing technique and what the individual is willing to accept. Deviations from this standard require adjustments in playing technique.

i always measure at the 17th fret or stop, with the string depressed at the 1st fret or stop...my fretless action is 7/64" with this method, which i deem a medium action for fretless...i could go as low as 1/16 easily, but i like having some room to go from a 'standard' sound to a 'mwah' depending on how hard i pluck

On my sixer from fret to the bottom of the string:
C 1.2 mm
G 1.2 mm
D 1.1 mm
A 1.3 mm
E 1.5 mm
B higher than 1.5 mm and I don't really care if B buzzes

On my sixer from fret to the bottom of the string:
C 1.2 mm
G 1.2 mm
D 1.1 mm
A 1.3 mm
E 1.5 mm
B higher than 1.5 mm and I don't really care if B buzzes

for those who are wondering...THIS is low action...:)

for those who are wondering...THIS is low action...:)

also improper balance :hiding:

E string on my fretless,


12th fret line to string
6 mm :)

Low action is better in most circumstances, but some guys have gorilla hands and just can't deal with it. Intonation up the neck is better and there is less fatigue. You can eliminate 80% of fret buzz by plucking over the bridge pickup. Frankly, I don't know why more people don't play there due to the nice cut you get in your tone. Anyway, setup is so subjective, to each their own.

all my bass's are set up exactly the same

2.5mm on the treble side
3.5 on the bass side

i've had low and high actions over the years this one allows me to to play fast runs and fills but still allows me to dig in too and make them frets suffer!!!:bassist::bassist: