There are many ways to play bass guitar, as there are many styles and genres of music and each has its merits in a given situation. One that seems to be good for all is strap position.

1/A strap should be wide to spread the load.
2/ A strap should be away from the neck and towards the outer shoulder.
3/ The outer shoulder is hard bone, not like the soft tissues near the neck. The outer shoulder supports better without compression of this soft tissue.
4/ It will be part of the design of the guitar that will help in this. As a rule long top horns on a bass will help the strap stay away from the neck area.
5/ The height of a bass can in some case be a factor. It is amazing the difference an inch or so can make either way.
6/ The ability to move the bass from the front to a side on postion, to an up-right, to a flat position make access for the fingers easier in some situations.

Because the bass hangs on us we cannot vary how we get to certain positions. On an up-right, or free standing bass, bending the knees, dropping the shoulder, bending over it a bit more will give us access.
But because the bass gutar hangs on us, these factors do not affect it, the bass stays at the same height to playing whether you bend the knees or or bend over.

Is the strap height fit for purpose?
Is it made of the right material?
Is it a fashion statement for the genre you play?
To high and the plucking hand suffers because it has to make compensations in angle of access with the arm and wrist, but the fretting hand has better access and angles for the wrist. To low and the fretting hand suffers with access and angles while the plucking hand now has better access and angles due to the arm and wrist being straighter.


In the neck at location C7, is where the main nerve, artery and vein runs from the torso to the upper limbs and ultimatly the hands. From the spinal column leaves going along the shoulder through the arm and to the hands. C7 has a longer transverse process on its left and right side to allow for the carrying and protecting of the nerve, vein and artery to pass safely to the upper limbs and then on to the hands. Any problems here with pinching or compression will be felt in the finger tips as that is where the nerve ending are at their most concentrated. Think of it as like a garden hose when the water stops coming out the end, it is usually a problem somewhere else in the line. What you see is the result of the problem in the water stopping, not the cause.

So if you strap or strap positon is wrong, and you inhibite these functions you will suffer as a consiquence in-directly whether you are aware of it or not.

As rule wide strap and keep it to the outer shoulder, never near the neck if possible.
Also avoid karate chopping spies, ninjas, TV detectives, action heros, or failing that Vulcans that are pissed with you.:D

The bass should be the same height standing or sitting, though some fine players have their bass even higher on their chest.

It seems that there are two types of bands now: The low hangers-down to-the knees and the same-height-standing or sitting genre. To the low hangers I ask this question: If you DO practice, do you practice sitting? If not, why? If so, why do you want your bass in two different positions?

As for strap style...who cares?

The bass should be the same height standing or sitting, though some fine players have their bass even higher on their chest.


Good point, so i'll push you on it as you gave no reason..Why should this be so.

I practice sitting and standing, my bass is lower while standing. I find it uncomfortable to be as high while standing as my bass is while sitting. I dont know why. But low is fine for me, never had a problem with sore wrists or anything but up high just makes my plucking elbow feel cramped.

Serious musicians have to practice long periods ideally daily. Studio sessions and show rehearsals can run hours. Sitting is often times a necessity, sometimes a requirement. In order to keep you reference points the same standing or sitting, the bass height should be the same, where all parts of the bass are best accessible.

When I see a bass player on stage with his instrument around his knees, I know that, at that moment, he can’t reach a large part of his fingerboard. I also strongly suspect that he doesn’t practice alone -unless he stands. Then I ask…why stand when you practice? If he does practice sitting, why does he have two completely sets of parameters standing and sitting. The answer then come to me, only me, is that I am looking at an entertainer, not a serious musician, and look to his audience to make my point…to me.

Serious musicians have to practice long periods ideally daily. Studio sessions and show rehearsals can run hours. Sitting is often times a necessity, sometimes a requirement. In order to keep you reference points the same standing or sitting, the bass height should be the same, where all parts of the bass are best accessible.

When I see a bass player on stage with his instrument around his knees, I know that, at that moment, he can’t reach a large part of his fingerboard. I also strongly suspect that he doesn’t practice alone -unless he stands. Then I ask…why stand when you practice? If he does practice sitting, why does he have two completely sets of parameters standing and sitting. The answer then come to me, only me, is that I am looking at an entertainer, not a serious musician, and look to his audience to make my point…to me.

Wow!!! forgive me please, as i feel you might be offended when i say i thought you had a point of fact or reference to offer, rather than the condescending, pretentious, narrow minded reply you did give.:rollno:

I practice sitting and standing, my bass is lower while standing. I find it uncomfortable to be as high while standing as my bass is while sitting. I dont know why. But low is fine for me, never had a problem with sore wrists or anything but up high just makes my plucking elbow feel cramped.


I agree, are you taller btw? I don't know if this had to do with height, but I cant play sitting with my bass hanging from the strap. If I do, It forces me to play with either a bent wrist or my shoulder too far forward.

Hey Fergi-

HMMM, YOU”RE the one who seems offended. I apologize to you if you consider yourself an entertainer.

I stand/sit by what I wrote.

In my experiencie, that applies only to me, really, higher is better, though not to the extreme where your wrist is totally stressed and your elbow cramps. If any, I think about Entwistle's bass strap position is what works for me (to give a reference).

I practice sitting at home and in the jazz band I have a stool (also I play EUB so it works out). With my other group I practice sitting and perform standing with the bass strap(s) adjusted so that my axe is pretty much in the same place, 'high' on my chest.

So Low Bass - thot you were right on target for the first paragraph, then editorialized in the second.

-richard

an entertainer, not a serious musician

Since when are they mutually exclusive??
If that's indeed what you're saying, I find it quite a worrying statement.

I for one sling a little lower than needed to be the same sitting and standing. But I generally practice like I gig: standing.

To me, the most important consideration is what bass position will keep my wrists straight.In tend to angle my bass head up wards and hand out mostly below the 9th fret, so It's comfortable.

I use a foam padded comfort strapp and my bass weighs 7.5 lbs, so that also helps greatly.

Never consider the look of my strap, really. If wardrobe is a consideration, the strap is pretty far down the list of what an audience will care about.

I like slinging mine a bit low. I like having my hand at that straighter for picking. Yes it makes it a little more difficult to get higher up on the neck but it can be done. I practice this way, eventually it becomes normal.

Wow!!! forgive me please, as i feel you might be offended when i say i thought you had a point of fact or reference to offer, rather than the condescending, pretentious, narrow minded reply you did give.:rollno:

His post was fine. It makes sense, for consistent muscle memory it's best to have one set of reference points for your instrument. If you practice sitting, and than stand and your bass is down by your knees it feels completely different. When I practice sitting I have my bass in a classical guitar position because that's where it is most comfortable on my body when I stand. So I can go from sitting to standing with no changes to my technique, or the position of my bass, so I always know where I am on my instrument.

i use to wear my strap so that the bass didn't move when transitioning from sitting to standing.

i recently acquired a p-bass that has become my #1 (over my stingrays). however, i found that wearing my bass at that height was uncomfortable for my right hand, as it caused an awkward angle at my wrist when anchoring my thumb on the pickup. i have since lowered my strap for the sake of comfort. i find it easier to use a pick w/ a lower bass as well. i still wear my stingrays at the old height.

as i have found w/ many things bass related, there are suggested, approximate guidelines, but it seems futile for anyone to set exact rules.

for what it is worth, i practice for about 1.5-2 hours daily and stand for about 85% of the time, i am on a stool for the rest. my main reasons for this is because i do not rehearse w/ bands sitting, and have only played one show (of a little more than 200) sitting. in standing, i have to focus on technique and posture.
a few other reasons i like standing...
-as i am quite a fan of effects (and a little synth), i find it easier to tap-dance while i play.
-early on, i played a lot of dance music (and still do, though not exclusively). i found that i take better ownership of my parts if i "feel them," bouncing and moving with them.
-lastly, and most importantly, standing works for me... i know that it does not work for everyone.

Hey Fergi-

HMMM, YOU”RE the one who seems offended. I apologize to you if you consider yourself an entertainer.

I stand/sit by what I wrote.

No offence taken here, your ignorance excuses you of that.
Fergie

His post was fine. It makes sense, for consistent muscle memory it's best to have one set of reference points for your instrument. If you practice sitting, and than stand and your bass is down by your knees it feels completely different. When I practice sitting I have my bass in a classical guitar position because that's where it is most comfortable on my body when I stand. So I can go from sitting to standing with no changes to my technique, or the position of my bass, so I always know where I am on my instrument.

Sorry but that post was not fine.
Thank you for the reply that should have been, to the point and relevent.

Sorry but that post was not fine.
Thank you for the reply that should have been, to the point and relevent.

Granted I do suck at getting to the point in a clear and concise way. However the reply is relevant.

I have my strap set so that the bass is in the same position whether Im sitting or standing.

I usually stand while playing, but its nice to have a chair when youre doing rehearsals, or doing a musical.

Makes most sense to me.

Granted I do suck at getting to the point in a clear and concise way. However the reply is relevant.

Sorry for the mis-understanding, your reply was fine and the sort of reply i would expect to a question, which is one that explains a point of view with relevent information. The comment was to thank you for explaining what maybe So Low Bass should have written if he had a relevent point to make.:)
The only thing So Low Bass offered is that you can judge and tell a serious musician on the height of his strap and his need to practice long hours. He implies that access to all the finger board is nessesary for music to be worthy of serious content.
He seems to believe that music and entertainment are seperate because of the height of a bass.:D

I agree, are you taller btw? I don't know if this had to do with height, but I cant play sitting with my bass hanging from the strap. If I do, It forces me to play with either a bent wrist or my shoulder too far forward.

Hey nah I'm not that tall... around 183cm... or around 6 foot for you people stuck with the imperial system haha

playing with my bass really low is extremely uncomfortable, i don't see the advantage of it unless you play about 4 different notes per song. i used to play like that though, until one day i took my strap up another notch, and never looked back. it was far more comfortable and easier to play. then i took it up another notch, and was even easier to play, but impossible to look cool with your bass 3 inches from your chin :D

impossible to look cool with your bass 3 inches from your chin :D

yes ;)

To the low hangers I ask this question: If you DO practice, do you practice sitting? If not, why? If so, why do you want your bass in two different positions?


I don't have my bass around my knees but I ware it low, it just feels more comfortable for me to do so.

As to practicing position I have no set way, sometimes I sit, sometimes I lay on my back, sometimes I have the bass on a strap and am on my knees, sometimes I sit cross legged, sometimes I put the bass on a table or something of the like, depends on where I am, what I am doing and how I feel.

The bass should be the same height standing or sitting, though some fine players have their bass even higher on their chest.

It seems that there are two types of bands now: The low hangers-down to-the knees and the same-height-standing or sitting genre. To the low hangers I ask this question: If you DO practice, do you practice sitting? If not, why? If so, why do you want your bass in two different positions?
Because I am not sitting when I'm standing, therefore I want my bass in another position. I have no problems playing in that position, and I hate having my bass high when I'm standing.

Sorry...I wasn't aware that you were the Strap Police and the official ruler on who's a musician and who's not. If that makes me less of a musician and more of an entertainer in your eyes, ask me if I care. Damn right I'm an entertainer, and proud of it. And I'll still play the **** out of any song I do. You don't want to entertain, then why even bother going onstage?

You don't want to entertain, then why even bother going onstage?

Word!

I find that when I'm sitting, the bass tilts a little so I can see all strings (quite nice!).

At first I practiced mostly in sitting position but I've found that if I then play live (always standing), the fact that I can only see the nearest (B) string makes me uncertain of whether I'm fretting the other strings correctly. I thus practice 99% in standing position - sometimes I'll sit down whilst starting to practice something new, but the moment I've got it nailed down I practice it in standing position until I'm happy with it.

I play in sitting position from time to time during long informal jam sessions with friends, simply because my feet tell me too...

I wear my bass around belt height, which I guess puts me with the down to the knees crowd ;) I always practice standing up in front of the computer. I am going to be standing up at the gig so I might as well get used to it. Also, I only practice about an hour a day, so it is not hard and gives me the flexibility to move around. And I would have to rearrange my home practice space to allow me to sit down.

Gary Willis said it best in that you should play the bass the same way when either standing or sitting. To do this you simply angle the bass up higher when sitting much like a classical guitar player. The simple reason is muscle memory and using the same muscle groups.

What if you don't care for Gary Willis?

Gary Willis said it best in that you should play the bass the same way when either standing or sitting. To do this you simply angle the bass up higher when sitting much like a classical guitar player. The simple reason is muscle memory and using the same muscle groups.

A great point and the first phalacy of this discussion.
The simple reason is muscle memory and using the same muscle groups.

Muscles do not have memory, they are stimulated by the brain to respond via motor neurons and chemical signals which can be triggered by the senses to provide a reaction.

Neuromuscular facilitation is the process by which a fixed size signal from motor neurons onto muscles causes an increase in the contraction of a muscle. This seems to occur because of an increased amount of acetylcholine being released onto the muscle cells for a signal of a fixed size. This process may also be called muscle memory.

So it really has to do with the familerarity of the movement not the height it is learnt.
Unless you are sitting when you play you are not using the same muscle groups so the bodies actions have to be different in each situation.
Now wether you like it or not this is a fact, when standing you use more of the bodies functions to maintain that position. If moving about when standing, that uses even more of the bodies functions, let alone any outside influences that you may have to cope with. Ask yourself this, when you're tired do you go and sit down for a rest or just stand there for a rest if the options is available.
Fact is if you sit to long you feel the need to walk about to stretch the legs and body, and if you stand about to long you feel the need to sit and rest. That is two entirely different uses of muscle groups in the body alone, never mind the other proccesses involved. So there is little truth that height it is for any sort of muscle memory or even the same groups of muscles, maybe the same but not all.

If so, why do you want your bass in two different positions?

When I stand, if my bass is at sitting height, it sits on my stomach very uncomfortably, it also makes the lowest notes harder to reach.


I laugh at the notion that I'm not a "serious musician" such as yourself, because I find my bass to be more comfy a few inches lower than you do, do you also doubt the musical talent of those who play with a pick, or a brand of instrument you don't like.....:rolleyes:

Damn right I'm an entertainer, and proud of it. And I'll still play the **** out of any song I do. You don't want to entertain, then why even bother going onstage?

Jimmy i find myself agreeing with you again:D LOL twice in so many weeks.;)

I generally practice standing, although if I'm tired or not feeling great (allergies have been horrible this year, I often feel like I have a bad cold) I will sit, and actually bought a stool to make it possible to practice with the bass in the same position both standing and sitting. I also play with the instrument at a pretty steep angle- if I held it parallel to the floor, it would be just below chest level.

Ultimately, proper position boils down to two things- what's comfortable for you, and what keeps your wrist as straight as possible to avoid carpal tunnel syndrome. Adjust your strap length and angle the instrument accordingly.

I find the weight of the bass is the big factor for me. A half pound can make a HUGE difference in my comfort quotient.

p.s. I generally agree with Jimmy, shouldn't everyone?

I just need to chime in with my own experience on this. I do agree with the 'bass in one position' school of thought. For a while I was practicing sitting while wearing the strap on the bass. This way when I stood up the bass would be in the exact same position. Well, the problem with that was that I developed a serious cramp in my shoulder from having the bass hanging during my entire practice routine. Now I just sit the bass on my right leg during long practice sessions. When I stand, my muscles seem to remember what to do.

I find the weight of the bass is the big factor for me. A half pound can make a HUGE difference in my comfort quotient.

p.s. I generally agree with Jimmy, shouldn't everyone?
Not when I'm way off ;) But in this case, I'm not.

...When I see a bass player on stage with his instrument around his knees, I know that, at that moment, he can’t reach a large part of his fingerboard. I also strongly suspect that he doesn’t practice alone -unless he stands. Then I ask…why stand when you practice? If he does practice sitting, why does he have two completely sets of parameters standing and sitting. The answer then come to me, only me, is that I am looking at an entertainer, not a serious musician, and look to his audience to make my point…to me.

I play with my bass probably 6" or so lower than it would be when I sit. I practice standing, and I always have. I have never in my whole playing career looked at playing the Electric Bass Guitar as a means to do anything other than entertain other people. I thought my practice routine should reflect this.

I find that my bass never quite sits the same when standing as sitting, even if the strap length suggests that it should be the same - it sits more to one side when sitting. Another thing, I guess, would be that the point of rotation of the bass is different when it is supported by a leg at the 'waist' of the instrument than when it is suspended by a strap at the strap buttons.

I've found for me that the best determinant of strap height is to find a position that works well ergonomically, regardless of sitting height considerations, and I think that the optimal position (or range of positions) for a particular person would be subject to the particulars of a person's upper arm, forearm, palm, and finger length measurements. I am aware that the sitting height method is somewhat of a conventional wisdom and possibly a good starting point, but I think that to say that it is suitable for everyone is a bit too broad of a statement.

For those who say that the strap has to be the same sitting and standing, how do you handle different basses? Or do you just use one bass (or multiple copies of the same bass style)? Different basses are going to affect the placement of your hands.

I used to play long, medium and short scale basses, sometimes at the same practice. I guess I just destroyed my muscle memory beyond hope ;)

JimmyM officially owns this thread.

You refute your own argument with obfuscation. The closest well not perfect muscle memory is by angling to mimic standing up.

Surely we use different muscle groups when standing up.

The point I thought was how to closely practice when sitting down as compared to a live situation. As Willis says its not perfect, how can practice be compared to a live gig.

I like all the analysis but the point is the point.

And you are taking the term muscle memory in a very narrow way. Of course muscles have no memory. You are being well a pain in the arse. Muscle memory is a very useful concept. It of course is also called induced muscle memory neuro- transmitter memory relayed by the cortex mem 101 that lets you replay repeated patterns on your bass memory geographic and fretboard manged memory.

And you are taking the term muscle memory in a very narrow way. Of course muscles have no memory. You are being well a pain in the arse. Muscle memory is a very useful concept. It of course is also called induced muscle memory neuro- transmitter memory relayed by the cortex mem 101 that lets you replay repeated patterns on your bass memory geographic and fretboard manged memory.

what

And you are taking the term muscle memory in a very narrow way. Of course muscles have no memory. You are being well a pain in the arse. Muscle memory is a very useful concept. It of course is also called induced muscle memory neuro- transmitter memory relayed by the cortex mem 101 that lets you replay repeated patterns on your bass memory geographic and fretboard manged memory.

Post 31 says exactly what you have said above.
All i did was clear up that muscle memory is a term not a fact.
Obfucation come from yourself in your previous post as you do not state what argument is refuted post 42, as i was not aware of any argument in place. All there are here is facts for anyone to make up there own minds with some simple rules to follow.

If you start at the beginning and read what is being said by all you will get the full picture of what is happening, saving you the trouble to basicly saying in post 42 what was said in post 31.

It of course is also called induced muscle memory neuro- transmitter memory relayed by the cortex mem 101 that lets you replay repeated patterns on your bass memory geographic and fretboard manged memory.

Sorry again, but are implying in this quote that cortex memory 101 which deals in smell and taste ( olfactory senses) are relevent, when again post 31 explains basicly what happens. I try and keep things simple as not all want, understand or need all the information in its full explanation. If player want more detail they can search on terms used.

Sorry to ask but i need to know exactly what you're saying to understand your points.

I wear a Velcro Vest and just stick my bass to myself just below my right Pec is where the upper horn lands. No straps required. Right hand - over the contour - but up off the bass when playing - this forces a better angle, no pressure on the underside of the forearm and you are using your whole arm to finger the bass. Picking and slapping are different naturally. :D

I want to be ZZ Top and spin my guitar.

If you play your parts with confidence and competence, serving the music and pleasing yourself, your bandmates and the listeners, who gives a rats ass about what strap, where, how, etc etc.

If you play your parts with confidence and competence, serving the music and pleasing yourself, your bandmates and the listeners, who gives a rats ass about what strap, where, how, etc etc.

Because ultimatly it's bad for your health and could have detrimental effects in the long run, have you not been paying attention to why this thread is here:D Read the OP.

What if you don't care for Gary Willis?


Oh no you didn't JimmyM!!! :bawl:

If you play your parts with confidence and competence, serving the music and pleasing yourself, your bandmates and the listeners, who gives a rats ass about what strap, where, how, etc etc.

Because ultimatly it's bad for your health and could have detrimental effects in the long run, have you not been paying attention to why this thread is here:D Read the OP.

I'm not disagreeing with any of that. My response was to the posts that went off dissing various player's preferences for strap height, etc.

I'm not disagreeing with any of that. My response was to the posts that went off dissing various player's preferences for strap height, etc.

Sorry!!! thought you missed the point of the OP.:D

You guys seem a little too passionate about this topic, it's almost scary. There are obviously extremes that can be detrimental physically and/or limiting, outside of that there really are no hard and fast rules.

What works for me is a few inches below where the bass would sit on my lap if I was sitting. For that reason I often practice, rehearse and play gigs on a stool with my right leg on the floor if I'm not standing, which allows me to be "comfy" and also have the bass in a consistent position.

And in this case I'm assuming that I am discussing this with fairly experienced bass players, if I was teaching a beginner student I might sing a slightly different tune...

When I am sitting down to practice, I am in my Laz-E-Boy with it fully reclined and the bass in the same position as it would be when standing. :eyebrow:

:hiding:

Sorry!!! thought you missed the point of the OP.:D

Your neuro stuff is fine. But it is after all falsewhen applied to the logistics of a bass player. And after all some theory you have adopted from who knows where. It is again false when applied to how I practice. That disproves your theory once. OK . According to some high falutin theorists like Popper and the like thats enuff.

Your neuro stuff is fine. But it is after all falsewhen applied to the logistics of a bass player. And after all some theory you have adopted from who knows where. It is again false when applied to how I practice. That disproves your theory once. OK . According to some high falutin theorists like Popper and the like thats enuff.

Thanks for the reply, the OP is a guide, not a hard fast rules.
The theory behind it is based in anatomy and what we know so far about about body mechanic and it is applicable to us as human beings.
How you practice is for you, how others practise is for them the two do not follow any rules.
But i'm interested as i collect such facts and data why

It is again false when applied to how I practice.

the above quote is a fact for you? Feel free to post openly or contact me privately, and highlight any parts of what i say and your experience in the matters, thanks:D

When I am sitting down to practice, I am in my Laz-E-Boy with it fully reclined and the bass in the same position as it would be when standing. :eyebrow:

:hiding:

hahah almost had to spit out my drink on that one

On the whole muscle memory thing I think well I hope we are just talking past each other. What I know from my experience and learning from some of the great jazz educators like Howard Roberts, Barry Galbraith (from books not face to face tuition) is they they talk about plateaus of learning.
You get to a certain level. Its cool. But to get to that next level requires an effort. Now is that mental, muscle learning or whatever. I don'y know and the whole anatomy thing is cool on a an intellectual level.
I studied postmodern geography at the PHd level for 7 years. So if you want to talk about the vagaries of the commercial property market in Sydney, I am your man.

However, I believe that through repetition that the brain tells muscles to do things more efficiently.

Can you dispute this. It is only through this format I can play Teen Town.

Serious musicians have to practice long periods ideally daily. Studio sessions and show rehearsals can run hours. Sitting is often times a necessity, sometimes a requirement. In order to keep you reference points the same standing or sitting, the bass height should be the same, where all parts of the bass are best accessible.

When I see a bass player on stage with his instrument around his knees, I know that, at that moment, he can’t reach a large part of his fingerboard. I also strongly suspect that he doesn’t practice alone -unless he stands. Then I ask…why stand when you practice? If he does practice sitting, why does he have two completely sets of parameters standing and sitting. The answer then come to me, only me, is that I am looking at an entertainer, not a serious musician, and look to his audience to make my point…to me.

What a load of horse crap! :rollno:

I have long ass monkey arms, and it actually bothers my right wrist to sit and play for long periods. So I wear my bass lower, around my belly area when I stand.

You can't make sweeping generalizations about body / playing ergonomics. Everyones's bodies are made differently.

Thanks for the reply, the OP is a guide, not a hard fast rules.
The theory behind it is based in anatomy and what we know so far about about body mechanic and it is applicable to us as human beings.
How you practice is for you, how others practise is for them the two do not follow any rules.
But i'm interested as i collect such facts and data why



the above quote is a fact for you? Feel free to post openly or contact me privately, and highlight any parts of what i say and your experience in the matters, thanks:D


Are you writing a book?

The OP seems to be a bunch of questions and some thoughts that you have. By no means can that be looked at as a guide....

Because I am not sitting when I'm standing, therefore I want my bass in another position. I have no problems playing in that position, and I hate having my bass high when I'm standing.

Sorry...I wasn't aware that you were the Strap Police and the official ruler on who's a musician and who's not. If that makes me less of a musician and more of an entertainer in your eyes, ask me if I care. Damn right I'm an entertainer, and proud of it. And I'll still play the **** out of any song I do. You don't want to entertain, then why even bother going onstage?

I Second That! :ninja::bassist:

On the whole muscle memory thing I think well I hope we are just talking past each other. What I know from my experience and learning from some of the great jazz educators like Howard Roberts, Barry Galbraith (from books not face to face tuition) is they they talk about plateaus of learning.
You get to a certain level. Its cool. But to get to that next level requires an effort. Now is that mental, muscle learning or whatever. I don'y know and the whole anatomy thing is cool on a an intellectual level.
I studied postmodern geography at the PHd level for 7 years. So if you want to talk about the vagaries of the commercial property market in Sydney, I am your man.

However, I believe that through repetition that the brain tells muscles to do things more efficiently.

Can you dispute this. It is only through this format I can play Teen Town.

Yes through repetition we get more efficient, runners and cyclists have a tendency to find the most efficient cadence/ style etc for their bodies, they may work on finer points but the greatest put in a lot of 'junk' miles.

Playing/practice for me, well it seems relaxation while playing is key to no injury. If I alter something I get an injury, or more to the point aggravate a prior injury collected over my almost 50 years.

On topic, strap is set the same sitting or standing. I tried classical guitar position and that did not work for me at all. (didn't work for classical guitar either)

Reading through these again it seems strap height became a focus rather than strap position at the neck shoulder. That is something to remember than what ever height you play at, the strap should be wide and more to the outside of the shoulder...not the neck. That should be the one point common to all, strap position, after all that's what the post was about.

I think you should try to find a balance where both wrists are as straight as possible to avoid stressing the tendons. Regarding strap height/ musician quality comparison.....as long as the dude with the bass down to his knees is laying it down righteously with a good tone and playing a bass line that supports and enhances the song, who cares where the strap is.

Reading through these again it seems strap height became a focus rather than strap position at the neck shoulder. That is something to remember than what ever height you play at, the strap should be wide and more to the outside of the shoulder...not the neck. That should be the one point common to all, strap position, after all that's what the post was about.


The distance from the base of my neck to the edge of my shoulder is 8 inches. My Sadowsky Neo strap is 3 7/8 wide..

So if this is about where the strap is positioned on your shoulder it seems like a big waste of time to me..:o

The distance from the base of my neck to the edge of my shoulder is 8 inches. My Sadowsky Neo strap is 3 7/8 wide..

So if this is about where the strap is positioned on your shoulder it seems like a big waste of time to me..:o

Don't quite understand you point, Is it strap position, your shoulder, your strap or your bass that is a waste of time.

Since we cannot change or physiology in an instant we can certainly get a strap position changed in an instant.:bassist:

In modern life it is accepted the dual straps on the shoulders away from the neck is an ergonomic design. Instrument manufacturers seem to be slow to take this up, A bass hung over both shoulders is better than a bass over one. You only have to look at the sport of Golf in all its forms from amatuer to professional to see how they now carry weight (golf bags).
From schools bags for children to walkers and hikers, to the armed services, duel straps are the way to hold weight. So if we are going to stay using one over the shoulder, then let it be a wide strap, and away from the neck, that's what i'm saying....try it you'll be surprised and if you can't move it... i would guess wrong strap.:D

Don't quite understand you point, Is it strap position, your shoulder, your strap or your bass that is a waste of time.

Since we cannot change or physiology in an instant we can certainly get a strap position changed in an instant.:bassist:

In modern life it is accepted the dual straps on the shoulders away from the neck is an ergonomic design. Instrument manufacturers seem to be slow to take this up, A bass hung over both shoulders is better than a bass over one. You only have to look at the sport of Golf in all its forms from amatuer to professional to see how they now carry weight (golf bags).
From schools bags for children to walkers and hikers, to the armed services, duel straps are the way to hold weight. So if we are going to stay using one over the shoulder, then let it be a wide strap, and away from the neck, that's what i'm saying....try it you'll be surprised and if you can't move it... i would guess wrong strap.:D

The waste of time is a long discussion of a 4" wide strap on a shoulder that's only 8" wide. Assuming nobody has it hanging off their shoulder or riding up their neck their really isn't much room for error here. I'm not sure there is any good reason for written guidlines. We're not talking about 50 lbs worth of golf clubs we're talking about a bass that in many cases is less then 10lbs.

The waste of time is a long discussion of a 4" wide strap on a shoulder that's only 8" wide. Assuming nobody has it hanging off their shoulder or riding up their neck their really isn't much room for error here. I'm not sure there is any good reason for written guidlines. We're not talking about 50 lbs worth of golf clubs we're talking about a bass that in many cases is less then 10lbs.

That weight is increased due to the parameters of bass, weight, technique, physical make up,etc. Now 10 lbs may nort seem a lot but in the long term it will depending on usage. What we are looking for is dissapation of weight over sufface area, So 10bs, if make in to a steel rod with a tip of say 1/16th of an inch sitting on your neck, that will hurt, where as a tube of the same weight but with a tip much larger and wider, won't hurt so much. The smaller tipped one may even puncture the skin. Today with extended range basses 10lb is nothing. Not much room to get it wrong, well yes, because the parameters are tight, you have to make sure you get it right.

So never a waste of time, but more a change of attitude, to match that of some strap makers who are taking it seriously.

http://www.adirondackguitar.com/straps/levy_m29.htm

http://www.idare2.com/instructionsguitar.html

http://www.neckup.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc

All with reducing load, even the neck up has it uses for some bass players tha sit a lot.

Good information....................never a waste of time.:D

Only on TB can a bassist become a physicist and a neurologist in 2 seconds. :ninja:

I don't really use a strap so I don't have the problem..yet...

But when I do I guess I keep it the same length but I don't worry about it much.

That weight is increased due to the parameters of bass, weight, technique, physical make up,etc. Now 10 lbs may nort seem a lot but in the long term it will depending on usage. What we are looking for is dissapation of weight over sufface area, So 10bs, if make in to a steel rod with a tip of say 1/16th of an inch sitting on your neck, that will hurt, where as a tube of the same weight but with a tip much larger and wider, won't hurt so much. The smaller tipped one may even puncture the skin. Today with extended range basses 10lb is nothing. Not much room to get it wrong, well yes, because the parameters are tight, you have to make sure you get it right.

So never a waste of time, but more a change of attitude, to match that of some strap makers who are taking it seriously.

http://www.adirondackguitar.com/straps/levy_m29.htm

http://www.idare2.com/instructionsguitar.html

http://www.neckup.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc

All with reducing load, even the neck up has it uses for some bass players tha sit a lot.

Good information....................never a waste of time.:D

Dude it's a strap. Next thing you know there are going to be users manuals for belts....Maybe we need a change of attitude and people should go back to wearing suspenders. They do a much better job of supporting your pants, especially today with the amount of credit cards, cell phones, i pods and keys people carry in their pockets and all. Call in the engineers:help:

Dude it's a strap. Next thing you know there are going to be users manuals for belts....Maybe we need a change of attitude and people should go back to wearing suspenders. They do a much better job of supporting your pants, especially today with the amount of credit cards, cell phones, i pods and keys people carry in their pockets and all. Call in the engineers:help:

LOL i hear ya Peter, but all you have done is deflect the information, with points that bear no relevance to the original point, which suggests to me you can find no reason to dispute the validity of the information of hanging a bass....yet :D

LOL i hear ya Peter, but all you have done is deflect the information, with points that bear no relevance to the original point, which suggests to me you can find no reason to dispute the validity of the information of hanging a bass....yet :D

My point......ahh forget it...I don't have one...

Please go on I want to know all the important information that is relevent to me placing my strap properly on my shoulder because I am just not sure I'm doing it right...

Stand in front of a mirror, strap on bass and adjust height of bass to attain the position that looks the coolest, whilst imagining you are on a Festival stage rocking out to 40,000 people. Run through a few of your best moves, sprint several yards in either direction and readjust length of strap if required. Re-check in mirror, mark strap and spend a couple of hours working through your trickiest bass lines, acclimatising to your new strap length. Job done:bassist:

My point......ahh forget it...I don't have one...

Please go on I want to know all the important information that is relevent to me placing my strap properly on my shoulder because I am just not sure I'm doing it right...

LOL But you have no point in it, so why would i ;)

I used to play regularly in cover bands three times a week. I had an old fender strap. I had major muscle problems in my shoulder. I switched to a wider strap. The problem disappeared.

I used to play regularly in cover bands three times a week. I had an old fender strap. I had major muscle problems in my shoulder. I switched to a wider strap. The problem disappeared.

Good point raised here for me would be, has anyone ever changed to a wider strap and found no benefit?
In all the posts they mainly relate to the bass in height, as i said earlier this was never a height thread but more a position on the shoulder.
When the focus is on one issue other issues get missed such as "what are the functions of the shoulders".
Now we can all agree that the hanging of a bass from them is not one of them.
So how does this adaptation of hanging a bass affect the shoulders function?
Now myself and others consider the functions of the hands as a line through the arms, shoulders, and to the brain. With that we also accept that any problem in these areas can affect the hands.
Then there is the inclusion on balance, that is the bodies balace not the basses. How does the body stay up-right? Why does it not fall over when the arms are extended in front of it, or we bend or lean over?
Why when we hang additional weight does it not fall over?
If we take that additional weight as a bass, then as a rule we add weight to the top of the body structure, so in effect it is a snap loading of weight, that adds to make the body top heavy.
Again why does the body structure not fall over?
If you move and swing the guitar, it now becomes an ever changing weight in the top of the body structure.
To me strap height is about lessening this effect, more about moving the load from a top heavy position to a one with a lower centre of gravity.
So just on these basic principals, problems like sore shoulders can be helped purely by strap position.
When height is talked about the focus it is usually about the wrists, never about the over all effects on the body.
Many in reality, in protection of their hands with straight wrists, could be causing damage elsewhere, remember that i consider that line from the hand to the brain as all part of the funcion of the hand, as damage along this line can effect the use of the hand. So this extra weight is taken on by the body and a good strap and strap position will lessen its effects by working with the bodies proprioception, so answering the questions posed earlier on the balance issues.
Now as it has been said "its just a strap" but as usual there is more involved if you look outside your focus, and the focus of a strap will tend to be height, because that relates to this focus on wrists, rather than some of the other things i have mentioned.

I play my bass high.
My strap is also pretty short.

*rimshot*
Be sure to tip your waitress...

As a former guitard (well I still play, but don't even own one), I worshiped Vernon Reid and Tom Morello, so playing w/ a short strap was cool, contrary to the opinion of the Green Day crowd.

I like my bass to be an extension of my ribcage. I would play with my strap almost as short as I could get it on both an Ibanez and a G&L tribby.

However, when I switched to a Warwick 'vette (short horns) I was forced to learn how to play the instrument lower. The ergonomics are completely different (IMO). Good on one hand (literally) and bad on the other hand (again, literally).

What I learned, (and the point of my contribution) is that while 'muscle memory' is a great thing, for me, I find it liberating to be able to play in a variety of positions.
Your muscle memory is more flexible than you realize.
It can get even better when you stretch it.

Sure, I play some things better in some positions than others. Likely I am the only one that can tell (and other musicians, maybe).

Dude strap problems are usually resolved not by strap height but by strap width. Read the post doh.