I really like our drummer and we manage to get down a heavy groove every time....BUT. He's monster loud. I underestimated this at the last gig. It was my own fault, when he asked for directions to the local drug store to do some shopping, I told him where it was and made assumtions about what he was getting. 2hours later when we walked onto stage I didn't notice that he had bought some ear-plugs (I thought he was working to another agenda when he headed off to the drug store) and commenced to play somewhat loudly! I think it was the earplugs and ceratinly he couldn't hear us or the fold-back. Now my ears didn't bleed - well that was as good as it got - my ears rang for two days afterwards. Immediately after the set the band sat in stunned silence around a table of beers - in a state of shock. "WHAT!? - - SPEAK UP" were the most common words spoken for the next hour. The venue apparently made a note to ban us (not a bad thing as this was the UK equivalent of playing in a Repubican polictical society club) and complaints were received from 300yds away (the venue is in a remote basement! Err?)

Is this normal behaviour for a drummer. Am I overly sensitive to highly expensive, loud rock snares played at destruction impact? Shall I wear ear-plugs, turn up and melt the audience? Am I getting too old at 55 to be on the road (OK I know the answer to that!)

quote...
Is this normal behaviour for a drummer

seems like most drummers have one syndrome or the other:

* hit it like you're killing it
* speed up slow down (one tempo for the whole song must be boring for them)
* hit it like an eggshell, you might break it
* overplay, that will impress em!
* bring a 19 pc set when a 5 pc will do
* insist on running every drum and every cymbal thru the pa, with overheads, hogging all the channels on the board (for a small club... hell, let's mike the kit for practice too)

maybe the acoustics are very reflective and that magnifies the problem in your situation.

good luck getting him to ease up.

;)

I play in my local church. Now the whole church/God/does or does not exist deal is irrelevant. What this means is that we have a rota of 3 drummers with another stuck on percussion and another away at college. We occaisionally use a pro drummer we know and sometimes do town wide events with a real gospel band.

Precis- I play with 7 drummers.

So of these drummers, five play at levels which are bearable. The other two whilst awesome musicians, and one is in my band, are just way too loud. I use ER20's with these guys. So in answer to your question no it's not normal. I can think of 13 drummers that I have played with in the past, some of them pro and only 1 was too loud.

Finally going back to the two loud drummers I currently play with I have noticed a theme. Drummer 1 started out playing pubs in Indie bands using one of those shell less fold up kits. Drummer 2 has practiced for 10 years on an electronic kit with ABS pads. My theory is that both of these drummers muscle memory has developed with a natural propensity to hammering seven sack fulls of excrement out of their drums.

Think yourself lucky, mate.....our drummer is excessively loud too, but he's not exactly a great timekeeper...

We played the Little civic and they didn't have to mic his kit up... my bass and mark's guitar were pretty much on full! he was still louder than us....

DRUMMERS!!!! Let's stick to bloody drum machines..they're never drunk, they turn up on time and they can keep a simple rhythm going and not fall out. Simple!

Bekki

At least our guy is on time - that's true. He's been on tour a lot and I guess it's like another says, it's muscle memory from having to play load in big venues.

Did you ever think that maybee because he Just got ear plugs he didnt realize how loud he was?

Originally posted by bimplizkit
seems like most drummers have one syndrome or the other:

* hit it like you're killing it
* speed up slow down (one tempo for the whole song must be boring for them)
* hit it like an eggshell, you might break it
* overplay, that will impress em!
* bring a 19 pc set when a 5 pc will do
* insist on running every drum and every cymbal thru the pa, with overheads, hogging all the channels on the board (for a small club... hell, let's mike the kit for practice too)If anyone ever runs into a drummer who can easily change how hard he hits the skins, can keep the same tempo for days and days, worries more about keeping time than about impressing his girlfriend or wife with his "chops" and doesn't require two pickup trucks and a snowmobile trailer to haul his kit with, I call dibs!

As for your problem, Tactician -- can you talk to the guy? Let him know that he was way too loud and see if he can't tone it down a bit. If you're just starting out as a band, it may be a good idea to critique each and every show anyway, until ya'll are on the same page ("Drums were too loud," "Guitar solo was too long," etc.). If talking to him doesn't work, try standing farther away from him than you do now (maybe put your amp between yourself and him) and crank everyone else's volumes to meet him. Better yet, just aim your cabs at his big, inflated head, crank your ***t up to 11, detune your E string to B and pluck that sucker with authority! When his ears (and colon) stop bleeding, ask him how he likes it!

:D :D

Also (and I may get an argument here), I am a firm believer in the fact that if more than one or two people in the audience complain that you're too loud, you're too loud!

EDIT: It's not a bad idea for you to get some earplugs too.

Originally posted by Tactician - Is this normal behaviour for a drummer.

IME - the only "normal" behavior for drummers is "abnormal.".......like really good guitarists, they are a quirky bunch! I've found an important question to ask a new drummer is "How many DUI convictions have you had?"

Am I overly sensitive to highly expensive, loud rock snares played at destruction impact?

I think those cheapo drug store plugs are really meant to minimize sound (within reason) for people who work in industrial settings, not musicians who need to still hear a lot of nuances.

Shall I wear ear-plugs, turn up and melt the audience?

I'd just get a decent recording of what's going on and let the drummer hear it at a rehearsal. If the drummer is a "good", experienced, musician, they will recognize they need to fit into the band, not dominate it. If the drummer still doesn't get it, you and the other band members may have to draw a picture for the drummer.
Asking them who their "drummer gods" are can tell you a lot. The idol of the most sophisticated and musical drummer I've played with was Buddy Rich. The idol of the most ham-fisted, deranged, drummer I've played with was Keith Moon.

Am I getting too old at 55 to be on the road

HELL NO! Age is just chronological, just calendar pages. The mind can be any age you want it to be......at least, that's what I keep telling myself. I'm a pre-CBS model, too. :rolleyes:

I know a drummer that doesn't do any of that stuff...he plays at church and in a jazz band though...

I played drums for 10 years before I picked up a bass a couple of months ago.

I always wear earplugs, whether at a show, practice, or even at concerts I wasn't playing in. Hearing protection is very important if you play in any sort of rock situation. So many musicians develop hearing loss later in life that could be prevented with some simple, albeit "uncool" precautions.

Here's something a lot of poeple don't realize: Hearing loss is caused just as much, if not more so, by the PITCH of a particular sound as the volume. Low pitched things (i.e. bass guitars) won't hurt your hearing NEARLY as much as high pitched things (i.e. cymbals) 135db at 50hz would actually be considered relaxing to some, whereas 135db at 10khz would literally cause immediate physical pain for most. And who is sitting the CLOSEST to those high pitched cymbals? The drummer.

Anyway, I'm straying off topic a bit but I just wanted to give you an idea of the thought process that goes through our ('our' meaning us drummers) heads when we do things like put in earplugs.

So, then, the next obvious question: Why don't we rock drummers just play softer? Well, strangely enough, the answer to that question also touches on another point you brought up: When we try to play softer, it becomes increasingly difficult to keep the same tempo. We aren't like you bass/guitar players. We don't have a volume knob that we can just turn down. It's just not that easy for us. There are electronic drums, but that's an entirely different animal and beyond the scope of this thread.

I'm having a hard time coming up with a good analogy that "you bass players" would understand. I can practice my bass in my condo just by turning the volume down as low as it will go. I can slap that thing has hard as I want and nobody will know. There would be no way in hell that I could ever practice my drums at home - no matter how softly I might try to play, I just literally would not be able to move the sticks fast enough from one instrument to the next and still keep an accurate tempo without making SOME noise. Stick control like that is easy to understand but virtually impossible to master.

Anyway, I hope this sheds some light on this issue from "the other side".

hey british...

"we bass players" just like to do a lot of bitching.

we find an oddly comfortable 'coziness' and 'comraderie' in doing so.

:D

now play your drums quietly, so you can hear our bitching, mmmmkay?

:D :D

You know, alot of bassists complain about their drummers, either to loud, can't keep tempo, or they are stupid. I guess i'm lucky, i mean, the drummer i play with, has been drumming in his house, had never played with a bassist at the age of 21, and had tool , some metal, and dream theater as his idols. he's a freaking mad man, and he's on of the most open minded guys ive ever met. Man, but the LAST guy,,, whoa man, he sucked ASS.

i consider my band lucky, our drummer:

1) is rock solid
2) doesn't overplay
3) wants the band to sound good (not just the drums)
4) has excellent tempo recall
5) is a professional soundman (after he dials in the mains and monitors, they sound like God)
6) likes the same music we do
7) owns lots of nice sound equipment
8) and lights

he's a keeper, and it's a pleasure to work with him. once in a great while, he gets a little uptight if something doesn't sound just right. but that's also a good thing!!!




:D

Hi!

I play in an instrumental band that is Yanni meets Van Halen! My buddy, our drummer, spent the last year on tour with Great White and plays so loud you can't hear yourself think. We had to buy a plexi divider so we can mike him up for our live shows. We also use it at our rehearsal shots! I've known him 10 years and there is no way to even have a conversation with him about playing at a lesser volume. The bright side is that he is rock solid and full of energy. Sometimes you have to take the good with the bad. Check out http://www.sebastiansidi.com for pics of our latest show

Rob:D

The drummer I play with is so loud it's scary! For some odd reason, he likes to wear DOUBLE ear protection, both plugs and cups at the same time. Then he just goes and bangs the seven kinds of hell outta his set.

I think it's perhaps the time to give him few tips, or just buy him a pair of those more quiet sticks :rolleyes:

This seems to be the problem with many drummers, and I can see how it is very difficult to play quietly and maintain a steady tempo as British pointed out.

I always wear ear plugs or at the very least some tissue in my ears. All the same, if the punters are finding it too loud, then it's worth asking him if he could play more quietly. Also ask him whether he thinks the ear plugs maybe cut out too much volume and therefore he plays harder? If so, could he get different plugs?

I've seen a few bands split because their drummers were too loud,even though some of them were excellent in all other regards.

P.S reading that lost post - yeh, what about hot rods or cool rods? - that'll cut the volume

every drummer i've ever played with has had "issues".... well, the good ones anyway. the bad ones are actully normal human beings.

currently my drummer:
1-can't understand tempo changes in a song
2-only listens to suggestions from one member of the band (the one with boobs)
3-can't play 7/4
4-fantastic piano player
5-smells funny
6-doesn't have a vehicle to haul around his kit

quick question: how can you tell when a bass player locked his keys in the car?

the drummer is locked inside.

whoa, this thread smells like the new forum (band management...

off you go!
:)

First post on new forum!!

seems like most drummers have one syndrome or the other:

* hit it like you're killing it
* speed up slow down (one tempo for the whole song must be boring for them)
* hit it like an eggshell, you might break it
* overplay, that will impress em!
* bring a 19 pc set when a 5 pc will do
* insist on running every drum and every cymbal thru the pa, with overheads, hogging all the channels on the board (for a small club... hell, let's mike the kit for practice too)

My former drummer has all of the above.

I've found the best drummer in town though. Mr. Drum Machine.

Originally posted by Hategear
If anyone ever runs into a drummer who can easily change how hard he hits the skins, can keep the same tempo for days and days, worries more about keeping time than about impressing his girlfriend or wife with his "chops" and doesn't require two pickup trucks and a snowmobile trailer to haul his kit with, I call dibs!


Sorry, he's in my band. He's got dynamics, keeps it simple and tasty and has more beats than any drummer I've ever played with. I guess since he has already been a touring drummer he's got nothing to prove in our little part time weekend band, no ego. He doesn't even like to solo but when he does he's totally groovy. At practice we all, including the drummer play quietly enough so that the guitar players 18 month old son stays fast asleep upstairs. Nope you can't have him. His name is John Shepperd. Gotta give a guy like that his props.

i feel for ya,our drummer is just one of the best,he knows just the right volume to play at all times,we bring the volume up and down at the same time just by our attack,i am very fortunate to play with this guy he has played professionally for over 25 yrs,he can tighten it up
peace
frank

beat him with a bating stick then throw him down the ugly tree and make sure he hits every branch on the way down.
dont like drummers......
-shoonk

Originally posted by British

I'm having a hard time coming up with a good analogy that "you bass players" would understand. I can practice my bass in my condo just by turning the volume down as low as it will go. I can slap that thing has hard as I want and nobody will know. There would be no way in hell that I could ever practice my drums at home - no matter how softly I might try to play, I just literally would not be able to move the sticks fast enough from one instrument to the next and still keep an accurate tempo without making SOME noise. Stick control like that is easy to understand but virtually impossible to master.

Anyway, I hope this sheds some light on this issue from "the other side".

Surely you can put pads on your drum skins to dampen the sound?!

I've got a drummer who's a pure joy to work with. Maybe not the best I've played with, technically, but the guy is rock solid, and has an amazing knack for capturing the essence of the song, making him one my all time favorites to work with. He's also very, very loud.

We played a venue awhile back that won't be asking us back. The guy in charge there, who I understand teaches jazz at the local college in that town, kept trying to take me aside to see if I could wield any influence over drum volume. My drummer, reasonable in every other way, shrugged his shoulders and uttered one of his favorite expressions, "it is what it is" in way of explaining that that's just the way he played. And he was right. We are a rock band. His playing is perfect for us, we're not a low-volume act, and we shouldn't change that for the sake of a venue with terrible acoustics and a crowd used to being able to talk over the band. Our compromise with him is to have him use a quieter snare at smaller gigs, and that's fine by me.

Now he gets a real test this weekend. I got a call to do a pickup blues gig and I recruited him to play it with me. I've got my fingers crossed because I don't think he has a lot of blues under his belt, but he's a great 'feel' player and that's what is needed. We'll see if he can trade some of that steady thump for a bit of dynamics and swing... we shall see :)

WOW!!!some of us really don't like drummers...I am fortunate enough to play with a drummer who is awsome..timing,dynamics,showmanship(he breathes fire ala Gene Simmons)and most of all open minded.he's got it,and he is brutally loud...but that is just his attack and his Bonzo size kit(18 & 22 in floor toms w\a 26in. bass drum 16 in. deep!!!).he has really good dynamics,can be quiet as a mouse..I would'nt have it any other way...when we get "locked in" it's magic..I could not ever put a drum machine above him,I need the human feel...and as bass players I feel that it is very important to have a good relationship with your drummer because WE drive the band..not all drummers are knuckle-draggin neanderthals..in fact I told the rest of the band that if we ever loose him,I'm the only one who can have the final word on who we hire.but I would most likely leave with him..he is MY drummer...o.k this is startin to sound weird..all I'm sayin is if you find a good one,keep'em

Ok my drummer is great, a veteran journeyman of sorts, lots of skillz. Our band is much different than the harder musics he has played in--at least a lot more diverse dynamically and stylistically.

Sometimes he plays with lots of emotion and it sounds great. BUT:

Other times he is way too busy. It's often to the point where I can predict when his fill is coming (which didn't need to be there!).

Another is that he almost ALWAYS follows my bass line to the "T", which, as we all know from bands like Primus can be a cool thing, but when I'm wanting to groove, it would be nice if he would keep a beat and let me keep my syncopation!

While we do a good job a communicating in the band, he can get pretty short sometimes, and this being such a huge criticism, I fear a backlash.

Help me Ruth!

My drummer's loud, but nothing a set of earplugs can't cure.

My guitarist, on the other hand, has a major problem with the drummer. He always wants to practice at a volume low enough where you don't have to use earplugs...and given that he has super delicate ears (not that he can hear soft things, but anything remotely "loud" and he starts screaming like a baby), his ideal volume is basically the band practicing at normal conversation volume. Now I don't know about anyone else, but I didn't spend all my money on a full stack to practice at a volume my old guitar amp (that I used before I got my stack) could easily reach.

Plus, he wants people to turn down, but forgets to turn himself down enough. And because his tone is completely sh!t (it could get muddier and noisier, and it couldn't have less definition), he needs to turn it up even louder to hear himself. So in response, I have to turn myself up louder, and then it's back to square one, with his whining and ready to throw the guitar across the room because the volume is too loud.

While I do think that the drummer can soften some of his hits (especially the snare), it doesn't bother me, and I just look past it and hope to make practice somewhat productive. The guitarist on the other hand cannot let that go. He doesn't seem to understand why others can't "listen" (i.e.
"obey") to his close-minded opinions/orders. This is the same guy that told me that extended range basses are inferior to 4 strings (and no, he doesn't know Jaco), and that "all the good bassists play very hard and right by the bridge." That's what his bass teacher taught him, and he takes it as a God-given truth.

YARGH.

At first I thought I was lucky to have a guitarist who didn't pose any significant problems, but now the issues are surfacing, and I don't know how much more I can take.

Well, I've played with a few drummers, say 15 or so in my lifetime. The few years I've played with 3 consistently and i can honestly say out of all of them only 1 manages to play a reasonable volume.

This is the problem with being completely untrained I think. Same with guitarists - always to freaking loud, it really hacks me off actually and if you say 'maybe we could play a bit quieter' you get the 'got to match to the drum volume' response - to which my gut instinct is 'learn to play the FKN drums then'.

I've told one of my loud bands recently that I'm going to quit if we can't the reduce volume in rehearsals. I know we wont be able to to, because the drummer cant play softly for toffee.

It honestly is my biggest problem with playing rock or heavy music. It's stupid senseless and idiotic and it pisses me off. C'mon then, GRRR! :D

ive never seen a drummer like what a few of you have said you have in your band...
my drummer always plays too loud and insists on micing everything and is never ever satisfied with anything...
i am glad however to see that im not the only one going through this problem. our drummer is so frustrating to work with but he is an increadible drummer. he started when he was 4 on a little mickey mouse drumset and has played seriously since. were a metal band so were really fast and hes always showing off and throwing everyone else off tempo. finding a good(not just talent) drummer has to do with luck... pure luck... good luck! heh...

I was pretty impressed with the drummer in my band when we first started writing songs. The first song went great! Then I noticed something about the second song we started, and the third. THE DRUM BEAT WAS EXACTALLY THE SAME! The songs weren't really very similar, but the drummer played the exact same thing. Loudness is also an issue with him sometimes, but he has toned down a bit (thanks to certain neighbors who called certain cops who told us about certain noise pollution regulations in his neighborhood.) The same beat thing is getting better too, and he really is a good drummer when it comes to just playing stuff. He just needs to branch out more when he's writing.

Holy crap, this is two years old :eyebrow:

I always wear ear plugs when there's a drummer involved, it's the best thing to do IMO.

I just don't think most drummers understand they too have to carry the tune! They have to undertand where the roots are, the melody in order to support properly. A drumkit is an instrument, not a tool just to show off and cram as many hits in a measure as possible. Drummers need to find their purpose and role in every song they play. Sometimes less is more for bassists, this rule applys really to the drummers at times more so than us. Drummers create mood and feel more so than any insturment. If your drummer just pounds and does crazy fills whenever possible what kind of mood or feel is he/she creating? Look at Wenkel or Gadd these guys got mad skills but they always support the tune and create soooo much feel even though they could be doing crazy fills and beats everywhere.

Alot of good points here.

As a drummer, all I can say guys and gals is that you need to communicate with your drummer. Alot of guys don't really realize that they have to create a nice dynamic cushion for the singer to sing in, for the other guys to solo in, and for the tune to say what it's supposed to say. Talk about this stuff, discuss dynamics, talk about the finer points of the piece. Don't make the only time you talk "music" with your drummer be when you turn around to make that "play quieter" hand gesture on stage. You know, the one that may earn you a stick between the shoulder blades during your favorite pose. ;) (done it)

There is some funny psychology to drumming, especially in rock music. You're sitting down, in the back line, while everyone else is standing in front of you, with their backs to you. Many drummers agree that they feel left out of it, just killing time while you fronts pose for chicks. Playing with some bands is down right drudgery. If the only time you look back is to start a song or grimace when a mistake is made, then how "in the music" do you expect your drummer to be? How is that "rhythm love" gonna happen between the bass and drums if you're off with the git man all night? ESP don't work, you've gotta bring him in, s/he can't get up and dance around with you. Don't sacrifice your drummer's inclusion for more posing space along the front of the stage. Just food for thought.

It's OK to say to your drummer during a rehearsal "Hey folks, it's time we take this to a new level with dynamics." Most people want to improve their playing and their band, just like you. Show respect for each other and cultivate a musical scene. Treat everyone as equals. Or, screw being musicians and get yourself a drum machine. :D

Best,
John

As a drummer of 34 yrs duration (and 10 yrs playing experience) I can say honestly that I try to listen to the rest of the instruments and tailor the dynamics, volume, groove and feel of my drumming to the piece we're playing.

In a Praise & Worship band you're playing a lot of styles.

At 16 yrs. of age I'll admit that all I wanted to do was play fills as fast as Deep Purple's Ian Paice. Musical experience will eventually allow even us neuron-challenged drummers to eventually "get-it".

It's all about the feel. If you're fighting each other with volume and dynamics go out the window, then there's no feel, and it's certainly no fun.

As for those of you who seem to think a drum machine can replace a drummer, the only good programming I've ever heard is done by drummers. You can always tell when the keyboardist, producer, or guitarist has programmed the percussion. Yeccch.

I'm glad we've got a great drummer. 17 and he's been playing around 8 years. He's definitely the glue holding our band together. We have a keyboardist with 11 years experience, and a guitarist with 6, as well as myself with 3, and I can definitely say that despite the talent of our guitarist and keyboardist and my best efforts, he's the one that keeps everything going. I think we take it for granted that he doesn't stop playing or speed up or anything. I'm glad that when we got together, and I'd been playing 6 months and our ex-singer had no experience, we didn't have to concentrate on tutoring the drummer.

My drummer's really loud. He doesn't have a volume knob, I understand, so it's not easy for him to play quieter.

However, that doesn't explain why he got a new drum set based on the premise that it would be louder, and why he loves to hit the snare near the edge instead of the center because it is louder.

*cries*