I'm looking at getting a Behringer Eurotrack MX1604A or a Eurotrack UB1622FX-PRO. What I wanted to know was if any of you have have any experience with Behringer stuff. The reason I was impressed was because of the low prices(even in Canadian!) Are these multi-tracks too good to be true? I want to get something with at least 8 but no more than 12 or 16 tracks, and it has to be reasonably priced, my band and I are all university kids, and cash is pretty tight. But any suggestions are welcome. I've used the new digital recorders with all the bells and whistles, and didnt like how it sounded, as well as the price. thanks for any help you can offer.

ok, those are not multi trackers, they are mixers. They have no storage on them. To record you will have to buy something to record to.

But, I have only heard good things about Behringer. But becarefull, as the saying goes you get what you pay for.

I have almost only heard bad things about Behringer. You get what you pay for, I guess.

I only heard bad things about the mixers, my compressor is very nice.

Ok, I get the idea that Behringer is possibly too good to be true. But what I'd like to know is, what makes them not so good? are they noisey, poorly made etc?

Originally posted by jimmy ray
are they noisey, poorly made etc? Of what I've heard, yes.

Behringer = Poorly constructed, bad sounding, blatant ripoffs of other manufacturers' products. Behringer's never even had one original idea. I'm surprised they've gotten away this long without losing a slew of copyright infringement suits. I've used their consoles and they are among the worst sounding, most poorly made products I've ever seen.

You nearly always get whet you pay for. I know sound engineers who have racks full of the stuff because of the inverse ratio of flashing lights to £ notes.

I personally prefer Spirit mixers but they are a little more money or same money less channels.

How much noise can I expect to get from a Behringer mixer into a PC? I'm not looking for total perfection, but I do want it to be fairly quiet. And how easily are these broken or fall apart or do they just sort of crap out after a little while?
Does anyone have any other suggestions for a mixer?

I'll have to agree with the majority of people here when as I think that Behringer mixers are not good. I suppose you can't argue with the price, especially the lower end models, but we used to use Behringer's top of the range desk at college and it was just noisy and played up too much. They'll probably be alright for you if you just want to record some demo stuff and that, they're not THAT noisy. However, you can probably get better desks for not too much more money. For example, some of Soundcraft's cheaper desks are not that much more than the UB1622FX-PRO desk you mentioned, it might be worth checking them out as well.

thanks for your help guys, but I do have one thing to ask. I noticed that all the people that posted a response except Johnalex were from Europe. Is it possible that Behringer's European products are not as good as their american products?

Originally posted by jimmy ray
thanks for your help guys, but I do have one thing to ask. I noticed that all the people that posted a response except Johnalex were from Europe. Is it possible that Behringer's European products are not as good as their american products?

Well, I live in Ottawa and Behringer's pretty crappy here....:D

Nah, I live in the states and I won't use a Behringer mixer again for anything other than light rehearsal:)

Really, it wouldn't be too bad if you just wanted something to lay ideas down with...I just wouldn't pay too much for any of their mixers.

Again...you get what you pay for:D

Alex

HI

I would say behringer equipment is not that bad as some people say. If you want very high quality recording you'll have to take mackie or something like that, but for a demo you can use a behringer especially because of that price. I have a band and we're recording at the moment. First we started with a fostex multitrack 8 channels i guess. And than we recorded through a 1604 into the pc with a terratex ewx 24/96 and logic. And we got a much better quality than with the fostex. Especially because the behringer has a special mic preamp. But a greater mixer than 16 channels I wouldn't buy from behringer. And non of that effects headphones, monitors and other stuff. Because you can't work really well with cheap equipment. The one thing that makes our demo sounds great is the fact that we have some studio monitors (event 20/20bas). I think that's very important, because if it sounds great on em. It will sound great almost everywhere. And if the recording is a little bit noisy you cán reduce it with a great noise reduction in cool edit.

I own one of Behringer's smaller mixers, the MX802A which is an 8 channel model. Contrary to what is being said above, it is dead quiet, even at elevated gain levels. If it colors then sound, it's very minimal (certainly far less than any other mixer in this price range). The pots seem to be mostly well constructed - though the ones they used for the microphone gain controls seem to not be as high of quality as the others.

Overall, I really like the mixer. I have to admit that if I took it to gigs and stuff (currently I use it in my home studio), that I'd be extra careful with it. It seems durable enough, but not so durable that you can abuse it and get away with it.

I'd also note that the few times I've dealt with Behringer customer support (for questions on my mixer) they have been very helpful.

While it's true that you get what you pay for, I don't think that necessarily means anything less than a Mackie or Allen & Heath is crap. I'd put Behringer far above Nady and all the other brands in the same price range, and just a step under Mackie (and yes, I've used several Mackie boards - they were exceptionally nice and well built, but for the huge increase in price I didn't see much better performance except in their larger boards). For a comparison, the Mackie 1202-VLZ Pro is what I was looking at, but I used one and for it's list price of $489 compared to the Behringer's list price of $129, (street prices come down to somewhere in the $300's and somewhere just under $100 respectively) I didn't see anywhere near a difference in performance to justify the cost difference. Without seeing the Mackie and just hearing it, I would have put it at no more than twice the price of the Behringer at the very most.

IMO select Behringer stuff is good, like compressors and other rack units. I use their headphone amp and feedback destroyer. The mixers are not up to par with better brands - the mic preamps don't sound as good and the build quality (cheaper pots and sliders) will make a difference in the long run. A Mackie or an A&H mixer will function longer in a gigging environment (smoke, beer spill etc) as they have sealed pots etc. If you want a mixer for a cleaner environment (home studio) the Behringers will probably last. A sound/PA guy I trust in my local music store has done practical comparisons and measurements and claim Phonic mixers (similar price as Behringer) sound almost as good as Mackies - still without the longterm gigging capacity though - and a better buy than Behringer.

I've had a 1604 for years and it's been great. Hard to believe I only paid $175 or something for it. Very quiet. I use it for practice now but wouldn't hesitate to record with it. It's got a hot spot near the main mix LEDs, but I've left it on for 24 hours without any harm done.

I've actually got a rather large problem with Behringer's M.O. Getting your hands on other people's products, then reverse engineering them and building them with cheap parts and cheaper labour is reprehensible in my book. This is what they do, just look at how closely the consoles mirror Mackie, or the bass amps Hartke, or the compressors Drawmer and DBX. The PCBs and circuit layouts in the eurodesk are almost exactly the same as the Mackie SR-2404, except Behringer uses worse components and the construction is pretty poor. I've used several Eurodesks and the noise floor was high enough that compressors I had on the main outputs showed signal. They were noisy enough to be almost unuseable even for live sound in a bar. Just my experience, though.

I was just reading reviews of studio monitors and came across exactly the same thing. Behringer had taken someone else's design even down to most of the cosmetics and reproduced it shoddily under their own name.
Seems like a cheap ass company to me.

I like behringer, it durable i dont know what everyone els is talking about, i have the battery powered one, 10 channels, its has taken a beating, droped many many time, on accident of coarse. its a tank, i dont like how the lower models dont have solo and mute buttons but it was 100 buck so i dont care. i have used some makie mixer, thatwell, they dont even come near my cheap behringer. i addmit this is the only behringer mixer i have used, but for this its preatty nice, but no soundcraft

Originally posted by Mark Reccord
I've actually got a rather large problem with Behringer's M.O. Getting your hands on other people's products, then reverse engineering them and building them with cheap parts and cheaper labour is reprehensible in my book. This is what they do, just look at how closely the consoles mirror Mackie, or the bass amps Hartke, or the compressors Drawmer and DBX. The PCBs and circuit layouts in the eurodesk are almost exactly the same as the Mackie SR-2404, except Behringer uses worse components and the construction is pretty poor. I've used several Eurodesks and the noise floor was high enough that compressors I had on the main outputs showed signal. They were noisy enough to be almost unuseable even for live sound in a bar. Just my experience, though.

Don't all mixers have the same routing more or less? And if I'm correct, the mackies got solo and mute knobs, which the behringers haven't got, and I think the mackies have more routing possibilities. And it was also behringers idea to get the really, really small mixers, which I feel was a need for.
How would you design a compressor that doesn't look like a dbx or drawmer?

Don't really get the 'reverse engineering', what do they mean by that?


As answer on the original question, the way I see it: behringer is semi-pro and stuff like mackie is pro-gear.
You can hear why they're cheaper.

I've got 3 of there X8500 mics, they are the same weight, and sound almost identical to a Shure SM-58, but the Behringers has slightly more highs. Also, they aren;t potted like some SM-58's I've used

By the way, those mics, they sound better on imstruments, and don't ever use em for live vocals....

I've used quite a bit of Behringer stuff. I have a 24 channel board that I use alot. One word of advice. Buy older Behringer stuff. THe older equipment is by far better than the newer equipment. This had a lot to do with the fact that they were blatantly ripping off Mackie with their design. If you can get one of those boards they are, in my opinion, just as good as the Mackie ones, yes I have quite a few Mackie boards to compare it to also.

I'd use them for home recording stuff, yes. For some products, perhaps even live. As far as I have understood, they are a German company - does anyone know better? - and that for they are popular in Europe. Not to mention the fact that most US-made or Mexico-made, even some Asia-made stuff costs way more in Europe than in the US, so they don't have as stiff competition here.

Behringer works on the principle of reverse engineering, that's true. The idea of "Reverse engineering" is, essentialy, that you have a bunch of engineers who examine the machine thoroughout and make notes like "signal is passed via such and such kind of transistors", after which another team of engineers reads the guide list and based on that but without seeing the original machine, they design another machine that does exactly the same, but that is constructed differently, and so they don't get sued for copyright matters.

It's nothing new, in the 80's some computer manufacturers did so, and I'd guess that nowadays most consumer electronics companys have their own people to dismantle their competitiors products and look what's inside them.

Behrigners MO can be looked at 2 ways.

1) We copy other designs and make cheap nasty versions that sound crap and break down,

or

2) We think that musical equipment is overpriced and can prove it. We can make products very similar quality of the big-boys for a fraction of the cost. Not just a couple of dollars cheaper, but often a third the price.

Anyone that actually owns any Behringer gear will tell you it's way better than the price tag.

But here's the moral dilema - what happens when Behringer put the others out of business - who's gonna design, research, and develop new products? Who are they gonna copy?

In reality it will probably never come to that but it's a valid point all the same.

I'm just curious if those of you who are bashing Behringer because of their alleged reverse engineering of others' products feel the same about Sadowsky, Mike Lull, MTD, etc. . . All of these well respected luthiers make dead-on copies of the Fender Jazz bass. In fact, how many companies out there make P/Bass copies?

I got the cheapest Behringer mixer available :p - UB502... it's very sensitive in that you have to adjust the knobs pretty well so as not to overload the channels with the incoming signal... as for the noise I don't think there is any such thing.

Here is what I did the first day I got it, as you can tell it's a little distorted on high frequences:

http://www.soularis.net/music/mixed.mp3

Overall, I love it, it's cheap, simple and does what it suppose -- mixes the channels.

The music shop, OB Fawley's in Morgantown, where I buy most of my stuff has had just about every major brand of equipment in it at one time or another. Now they've got Behringer and it is blowing everything else out of the store. He showed me a 4x12 guitar cab the other day. 4x12" Jensens in a closed back solid cab for under $200. It sounded great. You can't fake that kind of quality! I don't know how Behringer is doing it and I don't care. If I were Mackie,QSC,etc.etc I'd care though.

Originally posted by GreyBeard
If I were Mackie,QSC,etc.etc I'd care though. Would you care if Mackie, or QSC, or (insert name of your favourite PA brand) disappeared from the face of the earth? It would **** me to bits. It didn't bother me before but the more I think about it, the more it bugs me.

Guys, why do we bash something that we have never used?? How many people here say they suck , and then admit they have only HEARD this news??

Let's get down to facts. Behringer gear is German engineered, and produced in Asia. That's how it is cheap. I work for a tool manufacturer who builds in the U.S., and we know very well how hard it is to compete, unless you use cheap labor.

The gear is absolutely fantastic. As Behringer claims, it is PERFECT audio. They don't call it bragging.

I have many pieces of Behringer gear, including an MX2642A mixer. They are all excellent quality, and sound as good as any other product I have used, and better.

If you are to think that you get what you pay for, then you have fallen into the trap of thinking that higher price means higher quality. If this was the case, the the new GM Hummer would not be on the worst initial quality list, now would it ??

Be brave, be smart, and be thrifty. You can get great gear for much less, if you are willing to part with your price=quality mentality.

I would run my MX2642 next to a Mackie any day. I may not get all the ooh's and ahh's from all the gear heads, but I will get the sound. And that's what matters, right ? Right ??

If you think Behringer has not come up with anything original, then you are not informed. look at their website. They are one of the most prolific gear companies in action.

Not that I give all my dough to Behringer, but I am sure not going to shun it, because it looks and breaths like a Mackie. They all should!! I know my Behringer does.

And if you haven't used it, don't bash it. Try it, then come to the table with an opinion.

Good luck.

Very wise said, man! I'm looking at these catalogs recently and I'm amazed that Behringer has prices twice as low as any other brand out there. What happens, however, is that unlike Squier, for example, it's not crap, it's some useful sh*t that one can incorporate in their setup. I have Behringer's BX300, a practice combo, and I love it! It costs 99$ but man is that little thing nice or what. For some reason the same Crate that's MORE expensive than Behringer and is probably too made in China sounds like sh*t, excuse my French. What's up with that? Another thing to remember is that a lot of manufacturers out there were starting out with copies of Jazz or Precision basses. Even Sadowsky is copying it! But you can either come up with an imitation or something nice insipired by the original.

It's funny, how many bashers are solely based on 'hear-says.'

I have a Behringer BX300 bass amp, a GI-100 DI box, and a $12. 'studio' headphone (do a fine job for monitoring use. Quiet, smooth, full range FR,even with keyboards, or classical music listening; and damn comfortable, even wearing it for hours.)

No problem with any of the Behringers. In fact, the BX300 is a killer amp, with just about all the different I/O you need, for both ease of use, and good sound in recording. And it only costed me $125. shipped.

I also have an old tube Vox bass amp (the tubes along costs a lot more than my Behringer amp), and 2 other guitar amps.

More and more products will be made in Asia, S. America, etc. It's reality talking. Live with it.

Watch out for these mixers. They are noisy, and I am talking from experience, I have a 6 channel, an 8 channel and a 16 channel. I also have a 24 channel EV and a 24 channel Yamaha. The Yamaha is about the same cost as the Big B but not made in China and is far better for mixing, both for recording and reinforcement. The EV is by far the best, but it was about 4 times the cost ( even used). The Beheringer controls lasted about one week before they got real messy and crackled, especially the sliders. I have heard ( yea hearsay) that the older mixers were better, and not all China parts. Could you live with used? My college kids do.

Originally posted by Mark Reccord
I've actually got a rather large problem with Behringer's M.O. Getting your hands on other people's products, then reverse engineering them and building them with cheap parts and cheaper labour is reprehensible in my book.

Ok, so what about all the Fender rip offs?

Anyway, I use a Behringer crossover in my rack. It is pretty good... it has some noise, but I got it used for very cheap and it does what I need it to.

BTW- my band recorded our studio CD through Behringer's digital mixer into a protools Mac. That console was great.

Your best bet is going for a used Mackie. Even the older ones (pre-vlz pro)are better than the Behringers and if you shop wisely on eBay, you can get a used Mackie in good shape for the same price as a new Behringer.

I bought a BX600 recently, and have had no problems with it. The EQ is pretty versatile, and the 'shape' control is also really useful for changing your tone on the fly. My Behringer does exactly what I need it to, and does it well. I also like the fact that the amp has all the inputs/outputs I need.

As for the price, I bought a Marshall B25 Mark2 as my first amp, and it was pretty good, £105 new. The Behringer was £185 new, and feels like a big upgrade from my tiny Marshall for minimal outlay.

My church uses a behringer Eurodesk 32 channel mixer, and the multicomp compressor. I have zero complaints about the construction or performance or either. I personally own a UB502 mixer that I use as a headphone amp/mixer. I works fine for that, and was worth the $50 (now $40) that I paid for it. It's a little noisy, and it seemes to alter the sound of my bass if I play through it, so I just use it as the last link before the headphones, not in the chain that gets sent to the mixer.

I have recently purchased a MX 1804 mixer and have been pleased with it. Price was a big consideration and I only paid $180 for it new. I have used it with a computer based recording system, Guitar Tracks Pro, and haven't noticed any hiss or excess noise. I'm thinking about buying one of their mikes after seeing one in a friend's home studio set-up. Behringer is not top of the line but it's affordable usable stuff, especially for home studios I think.

I think one reason the Fender rip-offs is not a problem is because a majority of the luthiers that create copies, e.g. Sadowsky, Mike Lull, etc. are making MORE expensive versions, and not putting Fender in danger of going out of business. These luthiers aren't saying, "look, we can make the same gear and sell it for half the price." They're doing these like adding handmade design, and high-end preamps and pickups and things. There's a big difference.

Originally posted by Avidus
I think one reason the Fender rip-offs is not a problem is because a majority of the luthiers that create copies, e.g. Sadowsky, Mike Lull, etc. are making MORE expensive versions, and not putting Fender in danger of going out of business. These luthiers aren't saying, "look, we can make the same gear and sell it for half the price." They're doing these like adding handmade design, and high-end preamps and pickups and things. There's a big difference.

There are a good number of cheap Fender clones as well, and always have been.

Yes but cheap fender clones have always been a stop-gap to buying the real thing eventually. Fender, or one of the upmarket counterparts, still get their sale. The difference is no-one is buying Behringer desks and thinking "it wll do for now I'll buy an A&H later".

BTW, Fender is not travelling as well as everyone thinks.

Originally posted by Jazzbassman23
I'm just curious if those of you who are bashing Behringer because of their alleged reverse engineering of others' products....

It's not alleged. Behringer has lost two rather large lawsuits to Mackie and BSS, as well as numerous smaller ones, costing them millions of dollars in penalties as well as forcing them to drop or reengineer some of their products. Their older series of "studio" mixers was a literal copy of the Mackie 8*bus design, specifically of the Mackie mic pre, which is patented.

I have a problem with them only because they have a history of stealing other peoples work and caliming it for themselves. As an engineer who spends his time developing things which get patented, that really hits home.

-dave

Originally posted by Petebass
Yes but cheap fender clones have always been a stop-gap to buying the real thing eventually. Fender, or one of the upmarket counterparts,

It's the other way around for me.

I started with the real Fenders guitar in 1965, then the Fender Precision fretless in 1967. Then another Fender fretted P, then a Fender J. Then, a couple of Gibsons.

Now. I'm only buying clones. And I don't feel the recent, better, inexpensive asian clones are really lacking in anything, in most respects.

Nothing that can't be fixed with a good set-up, or just a few dollars worth of better strings and control pots, but that's totally optional, and according to your own personal tastes and preferences.

And some, in total stock forms, are even beating the heck out of most Fender MIM, and some Fender USA, Gibson/Epi as well.

Oh. I love the Behringer's stuff. In fact. I bought a second Behringer mixer yesterday. My 5th Behringer purchases.

Some designs are just based on a few identical designs.

Like the wheel of the car. The wheel thing was first appeared several thousand years ago in Asia. Way before the history of western civilisation had even began.

Same with paper making and printing. Paper was first invented in China in the year 105 A.D. Then, printing shorting after. According to recorded history.

Same with toilet tissues! ??Can you imagine living without toilet tissues??? :0


Then why nobody is complaining about ripping the chinese and asians off!

Behringer is producing some of the best value for the dollar equipment there is today. Their new Ultradrive and Ultracurve are proof of that, seeing as they are being pickup and used by PRO live audio people. The new EP1500 poweramp is a killer, the Bass Vamp Pro is great as well. I (up until just recently) ran a sound system that was using an Eurorack 3242x mixer, dead quiet, with strong preamps and a very diverse EQ.

I would take one of their new UB series mixers over a Mackie anyday. Mackie (IMO) are over priced crap, and poorly built at that. You want noisy pre's? Get a Mackie. (of course Mackie is now getting ready to start having a lot of their stuff produced in Asia, maybe the quality will improve)

All of my Behinger gear has proved to be of very good quality and well worth the $$ spent.Also, friend of mine had a Mackie mixer that took a crap on em, so while they were getting it repaired, they bought one of the 3242x's which they kept using after they got the Mackie back..

Originally posted by tuBass
My church uses a behringer Eurodesk 32 channel mixer, and the multicomp compressor. I have zero complaints about the construction or performance or either. I personally own a UB502 mixer that I use as a headphone amp/mixer. I works fine for that, and was worth the $50 (now $40) that I paid for it. It's a little noisy, and it seemes to alter the sound of my bass if I play through it, so I just use it as the last link before the headphones, not in the chain that gets sent to the mixer.

Here's an update to my own post, it looks like our one year old behringer mixer is in the process of dying, so I replaced it with an Allen and Heath GL2200-32.

I can't think of any reason I would even consider buying, anything, that said Behringer on it!

:spit: Treena

It's not that black and white. They are by no means "top of the line" and the "pro's" wouldn't think there worth bananas but the have some usable equipment. I got a mixer for my headphones and monitors and it does seem a little flimsy. No worse than the 1604vlz pro though. Actually, the mic pre's are easily as good or better than the ones on the Mackie. I've also A/B genelecs 1029's with sub and behringer monitors, and the behringers hold up rather well considering the price difference. I had heard they are a complete Mackie rip off though. I have a compressor for my live rig that works great as well. I've heard the complaint that they are noisy, and yes setting it up wrong does make it noisy. I set it up so it's quiet. The theft thing bugs me though, I hadn't heard about the lawsuits. Any links to that info? :hmm:

The quality definitely varies according to the products. Following are ones I own / have owned / used:

Composer Pro XL compressor - really quite good. Even the Behri haters over at homerecording.com acknowledge they are good for the price.

Mixers - dreadful. Absolutely horrible. If you are buying a budget mixer, I think the Yamaha MG range is the only game in town. I bought an MG12/4 recently and it is a fantastic piece of kit.

Bass combo's - Well the BX1200 is rated at 120 watts. Our drummer can't hear it; he can hear my GK Backline 110 (70 watts) over his kit perfectly well. Go figure.

Feedback Destroyer - Mixed. If you use it with a multi band EQ you get some very unwelcome results. Works OK in our home, mini PA setup, but it's rather slow to catch things.

Originally posted by Treena Foster
I can't think of any reason I would even consider buying, anything, that said Behringer on it!

:spit: Treena

Indeed.

Originally posted by Blisshead
It's not that black and white. They are by no means "top of the line" and the "pro's" wouldn't think there worth bananas but the have some usable equipment. I got a mixer for my headphones and monitors and it does seem a little flimsy. No worse than the 1604vlz pro though. Actually, the mic pre's are easily as good or better than the ones on the Mackie. I've also A/B genelecs 1029's with sub and behringer monitors, and the behringers hold up rather well considering the price difference. I had heard they are a complete Mackie rip off though. I have a compressor for my live rig that works great as well. I've heard the complaint that they are noisy, and yes setting it up wrong does make it noisy. I set it up so it's quiet. The theft thing bugs me though, I hadn't heard about the lawsuits. Any links to that info? :hmm:


http://mixonline.com/ar/audio_current_22/

http://www.sweetwater.com/insync/06/24/1997/

http://www.click-smilie.de/sammlung0903/spezial/Fool/kngt.gif
Treena

Originally posted by Treena Foster



http://mixonline.com/ar/audio_current_22/

http://www.sweetwater.com/insync/06/24/1997/

http://www.click-smilie.de/sammlung0903/spezial/Fool/kngt.gif
Treena

Thanks! They have seen my last dime then.

edit: soundcraft or yamaha mixers for me then I guess.

Originally posted by VellaBass
The quality definitely varies according to the products. Following are ones I own / have owned / used:

Composer Pro XL compressor - really quite good. Even the Behri haters over at homerecording.com acknowledge they are good for the price.

Mixers - dreadful. Absolutely horrible. If you are buying a budget mixer, I think the Yamaha MG range is the only game in town. I bought an MG12/4 recently and it is a fantastic piece of kit.

Bass combo's - Well the BX1200 is rated at 120 watts. Our drummer can't hear it; he can hear my GK Backline 110 (70 watts) over his kit perfectly well. Go figure.

Feedback Destroyer - Mixed. If you use it with a multi band EQ you get some very unwelcome results. Works OK in our home, mini PA setup, but it's rather slow to catch things.

As with many Asian made products. It depends on who is running the QC. If the QC is doing their job properly. Asians can made a lot of very fine products.

Most of China's technologies are from the West, especially from Germany, since Mao's time. Many are educated in Germany, as well as the U.K. and the US.

Also. Most of the infrastructures are brand new. Most factories in western Europe and the US are ancient, by comparision.

As for "slave labor". It's more of a myth than the whole true. Yes, pay is much lower than American or European's standards. But so is the living standards over there. They also pay a very low income tax.

One can live a yuppie life style in China with $2000USD - $3000USD annual income. According to one of my neighbor, who is an upper managment in a US company, and was sent to work in China for the past 5 years. The workers can even afford to go clubing several times a week after work. China also has the highest percentage of cell phone owners per capita in the world. Their high tech toys are about 5 years ahead of the US.

You'd be better off if you make $2000USD annually in China than you make $25000USD annually in the US.

Look at the Walmart's news here. That's truly slave labor practice.

Now about music. I saw it on tv a few years ago. China even has a music school moded after Berklee. And have sponsored many top notch jazz musicians to performed in many jazz festivals.

You'll learn a lot more about the rest of the world, if you get the news from other than CNN.

BBC is a good alternative to start.

I have the BX300. A super recording/practice amp.

Never trust any wattage output ratings. Especially when the ratings are into 4 ohms.

All amps should list the current ratings instead, and into a real reactive speaker load. Not some lab resistor set up.

Behringer gears are fine, in general. Especially the newer ones. I have several pieces of their gears, I also have Yamaha and Roland's gears. I have 2 Behringer mixers. One was noisy, but was replaced with no question asked.

Support is decent. Depends on who you get, just like any other company. I got very good to excellent email replies within 2 days or less 80% of the time.

Maybe I've been lucky.

No complain with the sound quality either. The price-performance ratio is just unbeatable.

They might not last 10 years, but at their selling prices, they're almost disposible. Get their latest offerings every couple of years. And you are still spending less than the majority of the other brands.

Why is it so bad in what Behringer have been doing? Why nobody complain when Shadowsky and such are cloning the basic Fender designs?

The feeling that I'm getting is, it's okay to rip off any designs, and sell at a very high price. If you're American brand name - the so called boutique brands. But definately not okay if you're a non US company.

Double standards?

If you don't want to buy asian made stuff, then, you may as well stop buying anything electronics.All electronics have asian parts. Regardless of brand name.

And stop flying and driving as well. Even Boeing, as well as US auto manufacturers, have already set up shops in China and other parts of Asia and Latin America.

Even Levi's jeans are now 100% imported. It just shut down its last US facility in Texas.

This is the results of golbolization.

Go read some financial news. The writing is stone crafted in the granite face on Mt. Rushmore already.

12notes, you bring up some interesting points.

Originally posted by Blisshead
12notes, you bring up some interesting points.

Not interesting enough to change my position!

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Treena

Originally posted by 12notes
One can live a yuppie life style in China with $2000USD - $3000USD annual income.

You'd be better off if you make $2000USD annually in China than you make $25000USD annually in the US.

$25K ... isn't that the poverty level in the US?

Originally posted by Munjibunga


$25K ... isn't that the poverty level in the US?

According to the Feb. 2003 guideline. $24680 per annual is the proverty level for a household of six. Source: http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/03computations.htm

It was on the news. If you work at Walmart's kinds of pay scale, and living in southern California. Your family need 3 full time jobs just to pay the rent for a typical 2 bedrooms apartment, not counting utilities or grocery money! The San Francisco Bay area is even more expensive.

Originally posted by 12notes


According to the Feb. 2003 guideline. $24680 per annual is the proverty level for a household of six. Source: http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/03computations.htm

It was on the news. If you work at Walmart's kinds of pay scale, and living in southern California. Your family need 3 full time jobs just to pay the rent for a typical 2 bedrooms apartment, not counting utilities or grocery money! The San Francisco Bay area is even more expensive.

I am from SF bay area.

I own my home, no mortgage payments just taxes and that's enough.

I am a LCSW on top of playing music and owning a commercial recording facility.

I'm married and my husband also works the studio, so we get by just fine!

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Treena

Originally posted by Treena Foster


Not interesting enough to change my position!

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Treena

Treena,

I am not trying to change your position here.

But I'm sure a lot of musicians can still play music, and have enough money left for housing and food, because of affordable musical gears from companies like Behringer, and other inexpensive clones. And to allow many young kids to get into music as well.

In a perfect world. Everybody will have enough money to live like J-Lo. Or Michael J (Oh no!!! :-|)But unfortunately, the reality is very much different for the most of us.

Companies like Behringer does serve its purposes. It wouldn't even had exsisted if there's not a good reason why it should be exsisted at all.

Originally posted by Treena Foster


I am from SF bay area.

I own my home, no mortgage payments just taxes and that's enough.

I am a LCSW on top of playing music and owning a commercial recording facility.

I'm married and my husband also works the studio, so we get by just fine!

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Treena

I know the Bay Area extremely well.

You're one of the fortunated ones. But not everybody is as fortunate as you are though.

Originally posted by Petebass
Would you care if Mackie, or QSC, or (insert name of your favourite PA brand) disappeared from the face of the earth? It would **** me to bits. It didn't bother me before but the more I think about it, the more it bugs me.

This is the ultimate reality show.

Big businesses got big by putting others out of business!

It's a dog eat dog's world!

Originally posted by 12notes


Treena,

I am not trying to change your position here.

But I'm sure a lot of musicians can still play music, and have enough money left for housing and food, because of affordable musical gears from companies like Behringer, and other inexpensive clones. And to allow many young kids to get into music as well.

In a perfect world. Everybody will have enough money to live like J-Lo. Or Michael J (Oh no!!! :-|)But unfortunately, the reality is very much different for the most of us.

Companies like Behringer does serve its purposes. It wouldn't even had exsisted if there's not a good reason why it should be exsisted at all.

Your points are valid!

I do remember being a teenager myself and the only kind of NEW euipment available to me was Fender. I worked moving pipe and saved enough money to purchase my first amp, a Fender bassman 100 and a Fender P bass. My dad gave me his '66 Jazz bass, but I wanted something I had worked for.

My point is that Behringer is targeting the youth of our society.

Parents are concerned with buying a child good equipment before they have shown they are going to stick to it, that bass playing isn't just the flavor of the week.

If parents thought long and hard about this, they would do as I have, purchase equipment that has a higher resale value.

Most Pro's I know look at Behringer euipment as "crap" and this is the word we all use, "rack crap" it's disposable!


Yes, I am fortunate, I earned 2 degree's and I married a man that works his behind off and he and I together can and do purchase high end equipment.
BUT, I still work for what I earn!

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Treena

Originally posted by Treena Foster


Your points are valid!

I do remember being a teenager myself and the only kind of NEW euipment available to me was Fender. I worked moving pipe and saved enough money to purchase my first amp, a Fender bassman 100 and a Fender P bass. My dad gave me his '66 Jazz bass, but I wanted something I had worked for.

My point is that Behringer is targeting the youth of our society.

Parents are concerned with buying a child good equipment before they have shown they are going to stick to it, that bass playing isn't just the flavor of the week.

If parents thought long and hard about this, they would do as I have, purchase equipment that has a higher resale value.

Most Pro's I know look at Behringer euipment as "crap" and this is the word we all use, "rack crap" it's disposable!


Yes, I am fortunate, I earned 2 degree's and I married a man that works his behind off and he and I together can and do purchase high end equipment.
BUT, I still work for what I earn!

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Treena

I see your point completely.

*As far as "rack crap" goes. Behringer is made under ISO9000 specs. Which has a much tighter tolerance than even the US Mil Specs. The ISO9000 calls for 1% tolerance, while the US Mil Spec allows a 3% error margin.

My full time domestic help makes a very comfortable living too.

My point is. Cherish what you've got, Have a heart, and don't look down, or brush off those who are less fortunated than we are.And have to buy Behringer gears in order to be able to afford toplay music. Or people like me, who are thrifty (call me cheap if you want. It won't bothers me).

My point is. Cherish what you've got, Have a heart, and don't look down, or brush off those who are less fortunated than we are.And have to buy Behringer gears in order to be able to afford toplay music. Or people like me, who are thrifty (call me cheap if you want. It won't bothers me).

If I sound judgemental please forgive me, I do have a clue about life and hard times! Been their... done........I have the T-shirt!

Enjoy your equipment what ever brand it is and have fun with music!


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Treena

Originally posted by Treena Foster


If I sound judgemental please forgive me, I do have a clue about life and hard times! Been their... done........I have the T-shirt!

Enjoy your equipment what ever brand it is and have fun with music!


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Treena

I apologize if I have offended you.

But the true is. If you must only buy "made in USA". Then, pretty soon, you can only do that by making everything yourself. And good luck in finding non Asian made components.

I heard Mackie is setting up shop in Asia too. Are you going to stop buying Mackies too?

Also. I've read from a guitar magazine, one from the U.K. I think, that a company in Orange County California have been supplying pickups for both Fender and Gibson's OEM, for twenty some years. I think all their stuff are from China. They are now selling under their own brand. I believe they also supplied the Lace sensors. But correct me if I'm wrong.

Also. One guy I know bought a Ford. Found out it's made in Mexico. Another guy bought a Toyota, and the Toyota is made in the USA.

Go figure!

Originally posted by 12notes


I apologize if I have offended you.

But the true is. If you must only buy "made in USA". Then, pretty soon, you can only do that by making everything yourself. And good luck in finding non Asian made components.

I heard Mackie is setting up shop in Asia too. Are you going to stop buying Mackies too?

Also. I've read from a guitar magazine, one from the U.K. I think, that a company in Orange County California have been supplying pickups for both Fender and Gibson's OEM, for twenty some years. I think all their stuff are from China. They are now selling under their own brand. I believe they also supplied the Lace sensors. But correct me if I'm wrong.

Also. One guy I know bought a Ford. Found out it's made in Mexico. Another guy bought a Toyota, and the Toyota is made in the USA.

Go figure!

I'm not just buy USA, I am not big on cheap equipment!

I purchased a Mackie SR24VLZ, it was one of the first to come off the assembly line. I use it strickly for monitoring signal, the pre's are cheap and sound that way to my ears.

If I were more of a tech I would try to build my equipment to my specs and not rely on others to build for me~!

Yes, I read the article too. I however purchased my basses when they were made in California! Pick ups and all!

I'm not offended nor do I wish to offend, I'm just opinonated.

Big buisness will make money where and when they can.

I believe in Unions and the work force ethics!

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Treena

I'm an old guy and as I write this I have my bass plugged into a Behringer Bass V Amp and run into a Behringer Eurorack MX 1804X Board. I love Behringer. What's wrong with affordable stuff for people who play music for fun? I also have Peavey and Carvin stuff which is made in the USA. What's the problem with buy stuff that fits your needs.

Originally posted by mojoman566
I'm an old guy and as I write this I have my bass plugged into a Behringer Bass V Amp and run into a Behringer Eurorack MX 1804X Board. I love Behringer. What's wrong with affordable stuff for people who play music for fun? I also have Peavey and Carvin stuff which is made in the USA. What's the problem with buy stuff that fits your needs.

You know, I used to think like that too, but we ended up spending our church's money on a behringer board because we thought it would be "good enough" The truth is, it wasn't. We had problems with it from day one, like noise, but we didn't realize how bad it was until the behringer finally died and we had to replace it with something much better. The clarity, quality of the electronics, workmanship and every other factor were apparent right away when we used the new board. We would have much better off just buying the better equipment right off the bat.
I still use some behringer stuff, but I'll never use one of their mixers again for live music.

Originally posted by mojoman566
I'm an old guy and as I write this I have my bass plugged into a Behringer Bass V Amp and run into a Behringer Eurorack MX 1804X Board. I love Behringer. What's wrong with affordable stuff for people who play music for fun? I also have Peavey and Carvin stuff which is made in the USA. What's the problem with buy stuff that fits your needs.

Behringer, doesn't fit my needs!


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Treena

Originally posted by mojoman566
I'm an old guy and as I write this I have my bass plugged into a Behringer Bass V Amp and run into a Behringer Eurorack MX 1804X Board. I love Behringer. What's wrong with affordable stuff for people who play music for fun? I also have Peavey and Carvin stuff which is made in the USA. What's the problem with buy stuff that fits your needs.


You no longer own the Guild Starfire Reissue, Hartke 3500 Head and David Eden 2x10 cabinet ?

Does your profile need to be updated or what?

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Treena

Guys, please keep this somewhat civil, and to the point of the the original post, not your own personal political beliefs on it. I don't want to have to close this, but I will if needed. If you want to go off topic on it, either start a new thread, or take it to PM please.

Touchy bunch in here. The stuff I've got works for me.

I'd never buy any Behringer stuff but, if it fits your budget and meets your needs, it's an option. Sure, we'd all like Midas mixers, QSC amps and Lexicon effects, but we can't always scrape up the cash. Behringer beats the crap out of nothing at all (most of the time), so I say live and let live (just this once). You never know, Behringer might be the pathway to the big time, then the money for the good stuff will be there.

Y'know, Treena, just because one thing sucks, it doesn't mean something else doesn't.

Y'know, Treena, just because one thing sucks, it doesn't mean something else doesn't.


:D

Y'know, Treena, just because one thing sucks, it doesn't mean something else doesn't.

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Treena

Originally posted by Treena Foster
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Treena

I was wondering how you'd respond to that. It's something even I don't understand, but if Butthead said it (and he did), it must be pithy.

I've been using the MX1804X mixer for live sound with very good results. It's a small private venue, mainly with ethnic music.
I've recorded to minidisc direct off of it, and the recording was fine. However, when I recorded off of it to my Akai DPS16, I started to realize that it's not a good recording mixer. It wasn't so much noise, but rather that the mixer adds a slightly sharp, tinny aspect to the output. This wasn't apparent live, as I fixed the EQ for the venue.
I've heard comment that earlier Behringer product was better sounding, and that the new stuff, which has greater component integration and is made in Asia, sounds inferior.

My opinion of behringer varies wildly.

I find the mixers do sound very sharp, and having used much much much better equipment, wouldn't pay anything for them. i don't rate mackie or the cheaper yamahas either tho. I currently have 2 A&Hs, which i like, although i would absolutely LOVE a cadac, or a midas.

But if you're looking for something to start with, they do the job, and some people remain happy with them, why not try and demo one in a store? if it works for you, that's what counts.

other behringer equipment i have used:

DI boxes, the best deal you can get, and when they break coz you've launched them across a stage too many times, you get a new one, nice and cheap, fairly hardwearing.

Ultracurve, lots of features for the price, but i don't like the sound of the EQ, personally, i find that if you run things through loud speakers, you can hear artifacts left from the digital eq. many people don't seem to be able to hear it though, or maybe they're too used to Mp3 compression?

Multicomp, have used this and the Pro XL version, both "did the job" but then started getting far too noisy. good for the initial money, but then you have to replace them not long after...

Intelligate, pretty much the same as the compressors, but even noisier, sounded like it was adding white noise while closing the gate...

Super-X (crossover), 2 units purchased at the same time, died together 6 months later.

V-Amp Pro (guitar), lots of fun, get some good(ish) sounds, hasn't died on me yet, great value.

MX8500 Mics, i got these to test them as i couldn't believe the reviews they were getting, i still don't believe them, they don't sound the same as the 58s, and the worst thing about them (for live sound at least) is the off axis rejection is TERRIBLE, so you can't put any vocals in the monitors.

i've tried to be fair, and i'll still buy behringer DI boxes, and i'm willing to give any product a go, but as a general rule, I stay away from most of their gear. but there are always exceptions.:)