Hey guys, I've just been approached to play a gig at a college during their welcome week in January. It would basically be a one hour set in the centre of campus with all the other events going on around.

First off, I've never played a gig like this so I'm not real sure what the going rate would be. I'm thinking something around 100-200 (Cdn), does this sound about right?

Also, we usually play mostly original material. For something like this do you think we would be better off/expected to work in more covers?

Let's see, $100 CDN ... that's about $4 US, so I'd say go for $5,000 CDN.

Play for free cotton candy:D

That rate sounds about right. Are there other bands playing too?

As for the cover/original thing, my first guess would be to opt for more covers, but again, it depends. The fellow who approached you might've done so because he thought your original material was perfect for the gig.

These are matters you will want to discuss with the organizers in more detail.

I would maybe play one or 2 good covers. Then play the heck out of your originals. This is your golden opportunity to start building a fan base for your music. GO FOR IT. Ask whoever is booking you how much they have budgeted for your performance. Another tip. Don't tell the audience their your originals out front. This some times put off the audience. Play them and then judge the crowd reaction. If the originals go over, then you might say something. Good Luck, there is nothing like the rush you get when playing live.

Hey, thanks for the responses everyone. I think I'm gonna ask for 100 and negotiate from there once details are sorted out.

I think there is one band playing / day for the week if I had to guess, not really sure though.

For the hour long set we could probably work in a good 3-4 covers to grab peoples attention and still focus on originals, but yes it will depend on what the organizer says. I guess we should probably find something more modern to cover, we usually do classic rock stuff.

the organizer should have offered you a price. i help book clubs at a college club and i always offer....which is around $100 dollars for local bands. i dislike it when bands come out and say they want so much $ unless they are really good/popular.....u shouldn't even ask for money really. the oppurtunity to play in front of a lot of people should be enough reward. but hey that is just me and the college club that i work for.

oh and mostly originals with a few GOOD covers is a great combo.

Originally posted by crossXbones
i help book clubs at a college club and i always offer....which is around $100 dollars for local bands. i dislike it when bands come out and say they want so much $ unless they are really good/popular.....u shouldn't even ask for money really. the oppurtunity to play in front of a lot of people should be enough reward. but hey that is just me and the college club that i work for.

...and every other club owner and/or booking guy in the history of the free world. $100 for the whole band ? You gotta be kiddin'! Are you serious about the "you shouldn't even ask for money" stuff? Are you a musician yourself? How large a venue? How many people on an average night? Do you rely on band draw or, as I suspect, does the club have it's own draw due to the size of the school? Sell unbelievable amounts of alcohol nightly? And you still think $100 is too much to pay the band? :rolleyes:

Well, I normally don't ask for money until it is offered, but in this case they specifically asked how much. I said we are making around $100 as an opener for bars and thats what they offered us for the gig.

Normally we rely on the band draw (not too big yet, only played like 5-10 shows) but we're playing the night before and will be advertising for that one, and the draw of the venue will be what we see at this show.

The pay obviously isn't nearly enough, but it never is, and well, it's better than nothing.

yes i am a musician and in a band that plays at many venues. you have any idea how many bands are out there? there are about 20 local bands here in town and i gurantee that any of those bands would play for peanuts.

and yes i am serious about not asking for money.......and please understand this is for local bands mainly. if a band is on tour or traveling they usually have a standard asking price which is fine.

2 story venue, with bar that sells a lot, we can only fit 500-600 people though. we have a regular crowd but i do depend on the band to draw people. i do not think $100 is a lot of money for a band, but that is what it is.

it all depends on the show. most local bands jump at the oppurtunity to play at a club here in town and yes most of them play for free. a bigger club here in town doesn't pay local bands jack..even when they headline a show. though they get a ton of promotion and exposure provided by the club.....who wouldn't want to play at the club that made Creed? things beside money...promotion and exposure....much better for a band in MHO.

nicoli, I was responding to crossXbones, not to you ;) .

I don't want you to feel like you undersold yourself. It's fine when a band decides to take whatever money, especially when they're just starting out. But it bums me out when I hear someone who's booking a club say $100 for a band is too much, or that we shouldn't ask for money anyway. That's just plain ridiculous.

i never said $100 was too much....its just the standard. i would love to give bands whatever they wanted..or deserved. but hey i got a boss too :)

Sorry cXb...of course you're not the boss, my bad :o .

I just hate to see musicians taken advantage of, especially the "young and hungry" cats in areas of heavy competition. Club owners who're making money by the bushel have a lot of ignorant kids convinced that they should play for little or no money (or as in L.A., that they actually should pay to play) for "the exposure", or because their club is where some famous band(s) got started, or that the "industry people" frequent the place. Musicians in general never have understood their value, and that the music business exists because we create music...not the other way 'round.

np man :cool:

i agree. my club uses some of those ploys and so do most of the clubs that are out there. one of the major clubs here in town claims that they made creed....which is true....and the soon to be nationalized social burn. peace

Originally posted by crossXbones
my club uses some of those ploys and so do most of the clubs that are out there. one of the major clubs here in town claims that they made creed....which is true....and the soon to be nationalized social burn. peace

Club owners = greedhead scumbags.

Musicians that play for no money when the venue gets rich on them = people who depress the market.

When will we all wise up?

If NOBODY would play your place under those conditions, crossXbones, then the going rate would be a lot higher. Go ahead, rape the very people you claim to be a part of, here. It's no problem, the problem isn't you, man -- you're just accountable to your boss.

So was Eichmann, pal!

I have a BIG problem with you and all the talent bookers like you. And everyone posting here should, too.

The answer is to not deal with people like this, folks. I don't -- and I still gig a fair amount (6-8 X/month). Both bars and private parties. Your asking price establishes your worth. Are you worth nothing?

This may be a little late, but your original question was "how much should I charge?".

I say with any negotiations, start where it will benifit you most and go from there. I think a good starting point would be 100 bucks per person in the band. So for a 3 peice, ask for 300...etc. That gives you a starting point. Then work with them from there. That's what we do. Sometimes we get it, sometimes we don't. But don't sell yourselves short by low balling.

Most of the time, booking agents/club owners already know what they're willing to pay. But they ask you what you want to make, because if you ask for less, they'd be more than happy to give it to you!

Originally posted by ThePez
This may be a little late, but your original question was "how much should I charge?".

I say with any negotiations, start where it will benifit you most and go from there. I think a good starting point would be 100 bucks per person in the band. So for a 3 peice, ask for 300...etc. That gives you a starting point. Then work with them from there. That's what we do. Sometimes we get it, sometimes we don't. But don't sell yourselves short by low balling.

Most of the time, booking agents/club owners already know what they're willing to pay. But they ask you what you want to make, because if you ask for less, they'd be more than happy to give it to you!

Yea, verily, ThePez! And $100 per man is a good jumping-off point.

Another suggestion: have a press kit with the contract included in it. Got a gig in NY one time solely on the strength of the female singer's cleavage, via fax, no demo tape or CD. Not the best gig in the world, but they paid at the end of the night. Contracts work.

0iginally posted by crossXbones
with bar that sells a lot, we can only fit 500-600 people though.

IMO the bands that play there for only $100 are getting raped up the bumhole. My band plays frats for at least $100 a person (4 dudes in the band) and we are on the cheap side. And frats don't even make money off of parties or bands.

For original bands though, it's a different story. They usually just make a cut of the door.

Originally posted by Ronzo
Go ahead, rape the very people you claim to be a part of, here. It's no problem, the problem isn't you, man -- you're just accountable to your boss.

So was Eichmann, pal!

I have a BIG problem with you and all the talent bookers like you. And everyone posting here should, too.

This is waaaay harsh, Ronzo. I took exception to the practices of crossXbones' club too, but there is no need to attack him personally. And a comparison to a Nazi is totally uncalled for. I'm not a moderator, and I hope I'm not overstepping my bounds here by suggesting you review the membership guidelines. :mad:

When you play for a club/party/wedding/event you are performing a service. I know if I hired a guy to fix my furnance or work on my car, he would be pretty ticked off if didn't pay him at the end. Why should it be any different when you play music? I mean, I don't mean to sound like I'm just another person coming down on you Cross, but a band should damn well ask for money if they are playing at a club. You are there keeping people on the dance floor. People on the dancefloor means more people buying drinks. Why should the bar get free labor when you are making them more money than they normally would be making on a bandless night. It takes years to become a proficient musician, equipment is very expensive, you have rehearsal time, plus the actual playing time. You should get compensated for at least some of your troubles.

Speaking of what Craig said about LA. The people I'm currently playing with were actually out in LA during the early 90's "trying to make it". (They told me all of those stereotypical Hollywood stories you see in the movies :eek: ) They told me how actually getting paid was really something. Apprently how it works with a lot of clubs is they give you tickets to sell, and if you can't sell them all, you have to buy them. It sucks because you'll get crap bands with lots of friends who have no problem selling the tickets.

They also told me how they threw a drink at the Bay City Roller's tour manager because the BCR wouldn't get off the stage and let them play their set. :D

Originally posted by Craig Garfinkel


This is waaaay harsh, Ronzo. I took exception to the practices of crossXbones' club too, but there is no need to attack him personally. And a comparison to a Nazi is totally uncalled for. I'm not a moderator, and I hope I'm not overstepping my bounds here by suggesting you review the membership guidelines. :mad:
I was NOT calling crossXbones a Nazi. I was saying that the "I'm just following orders" defense of what is reprehensible behavior will not wash with me. If his boss insists on trying to exploit musicians, the boss is within his rights to do so. But I wouldn't be his agent for that. And as soon as crossXbones did so, he was complicit in that exploitation -- and as guilty as his boss of it.

I was not engaging in name-calling here. I WAS calling crossXbones on his behavior.

Play nice folks.

IMO if a venue is going to be making substantial amounts of money due to the fact that a band is playing there, the band has EVERY RIGHT to be paid for their time and effort.

Even if you're just playing for fun, exploitation is exploitation.

Originally posted by nicoli
Hey, thanks for the responses everyone. I think I'm gonna ask for 100 and negotiate from there once details are sorted out.

I think there is one band playing / day for the week if I had to guess, not really sure though.

For the hour long set we could probably work in a good 3-4 covers to grab peoples attention and still focus on originals, but yes it will depend on what the organizer says. I guess we should probably find something more modern to cover, we usually do classic rock stuff.

My band asks for $250 US. If you want $100 CDN, you probably should ask for at least $150. That way you can work down towards what you want, and it seems to them like a compromise.

I think 3 or 4 covers is a very good idea. :)

Originally posted by nicoli
Hey, thanks for the responses everyone. I think I'm gonna ask for 100 and negotiate from there once details are sorted out.

I think there is one band playing / day for the week if I had to guess, not really sure though.

For the hour long set we could probably work in a good 3-4 covers to grab peoples attention and still focus on originals, but yes it will depend on what the organizer says. I guess we should probably find something more modern to cover, we usually do classic rock stuff.

For only playing one hour I think each member should walk away with no less than $50-$75 each. As Gabu said, set your asking price higher, and then negotiate down. Cos thats definatly how its going to go.

To all those that mentioned exposure, publicity, etc, thats all fine and dandy, but more often than not it gets you nowhere, and doesnt help pay the bills. Creed was found here, thats nice too, there not Creed and chances are really good that they wont be discovered like Creed was. *nothing personal against your band dude* Its more a marketing ploy on the clubs part to get bands to play for free or next to nothing.

I also think adding some covers to your repitore is a good idea. People wanna hear stuff their familiar with most times. So added a few covers and doing them strategically in youre set would be advantagious.

Originally posted by ThePez
I think a good starting point would be 100 bucks per person in the band. So for a 3 peice, ask for 300...etc.

This is sure not a shot at you, ThePez, but rather, an observation: $100 US per man was the going rate to play a fraternity party in 1970-1973.

DJs happened at the end of that decade and through the 1980s. They killed the market for live music in small to medium venues for a lot of years by working cheap.

Now, many DJs have a lot of equipment expense, and some of the better ones have an entourage of hot looking dancers working with them. Those that do get a much higher price than those that don't. But DJs still depress the market by undercutting musicians. The skills they require are not nearly as valuable as those of a musician, IMHO. But they get paid, or they don't work the gig. Period. Could you imagine a club owner saying to a DJ, "We won't pay you anything. But think of all the exposure you'll get."? Most DJs did that ONCE, maybe twice. But surely not a third time. They're not stupid.

Are we?

It sure seems like that when "20 bands in this area will play for peanuts".

I'm not a union musician. But stuff like this is what the organized labor movement is all about. Exploitation.

There is only one answer. No pay, no gig. As I said in another thread: there was a guy who ran My Father's Place in Roslyn, NY that stiffed any band who wasn't a Name Act like Stevie Ray Vaughan or Roy Buchanan. He claimed that bands should play his venue for the exposure. The only thing it exposed was who the suckers were -- to the entire NYC record industry crowd.

We've all been suckers in that way at one time or another. Don't be one again. All you do by that is to allow leeches like those described earlier to proliferate. And they are sucking YOUR BLOOD. Please, remember that.

I think most musicians, play for free cuz they love the music so much and just enjoy having somewhere to play were they can get their music out have friends and family in the audience and just have a good time. But i do understand that some people have put food on the table but i just played a gig and we sold the place out with our friends and family ( the place is usualy dead) the manager was soo happy and we got 30$ and a dinner. I think if a band can bring a crowd they should get more, but heay i'm just happy playin' my bass :)

One thing that hasn't been mentioned - IME most clubs that pay decently will expect that you bring a crowd in.

One way to negotiate might be to say that you can guarantee X number of people will come, if you have a following built up.

If, on the other hand, your band is relatively new, you can't expect to be paid top dollar. This is why some places around here have "New Band Night", but AFAIK even those are paid gigs.

My opinion is that playing free gigs is a bad idea. If word gets out about that, not only will you never make any money, but you're also making life difficult for other bands.

Even if the crowd is only five people, the club is still essentially making money off your hide if you play for free.

Originally posted by thrash_jazz
One thing that hasn't been mentioned - IME most clubs that pay decently will expect that you bring a crowd in.

One way to negotiate might be to say that you can guarantee X number of people will come, if you have a following built up.

Yes, in some cases that's true. But as Craig Garfinkel said earlier, there are venues where there is a built-in crowd, such as many college towns and resort areas. Those places shouldn't base their pay scale on the size of the band's mailing list, IMO. And those that do are using that primarily as a negotiating ploy to get the price to be low or nil.

Originally posted by thrash_jazz
If, on the other hand, your band is relatively new, you can't expect to be paid top dollar. This is why some places around here have "New Band Night", but AFAIK even those are paid gigs.

And as far as I'm concerned, they should be. People do go out looking for something new. What the bar (usually) is doing here is something that differentiates them from the general run-of-the-mill night spot. Some even garner their reputation that way. But if you see a number of people there drinking or eating, they've come to look for just that -- new music. If you're unpaid, you're exploited. And it's your own fault.

Originally posted by thrash_jazz
My opinion is that playing free gigs is a bad idea. If word gets out about that, not only will you never make any money, but you're also making life difficult for other bands.

Even if the crowd is only five people, the club is still essentially making money off your hide if you play for free.

Bingo! Without you there, those five people didn't patronize the place.

I've worked with a club owner to compensate for a poor night's business -- but I have done so as a discount on the NEXT gig. Never on the one we're playing or have just played. There has to be mutual trust to do that. An offer to take less the next time on a slow night will usually be accepted happily, if you offer it first as a means of showing your understanding of the owner's economics. The way I have phrased it is, "Hey, I know the snow/rain/natural disaster killed your business tonight. How about we take a hundred off the price for the next gig, so we can help you recover from it?"

SHARING the risk is reasonable. ASSUMING the risk is not.

BTW, the way we work in my two bands is that we give the person who books the gig two shares of the gig's proceeds rather than one. (For example, if you have a four-piece and you get $500 for the gig, the one who booked it makes $200, and everyone else makes $100.) That incents the musician to book a gig themselves -- and at a higher price. If we give back on the next one as I described above, the one who booked it is giving that extra share back. It goes into the kitty for that following gig at that venue. Try it. It may work for you, too.

Originally posted by Ronzo


This is sure not a shot at you, ThePez, but rather, an observation: $100 US per man was the going rate to play a fraternity party in 1970-1973.



Unknown Original bands will be lucky to get paid this much by a bar or club. Private parties are diffrent. You should charge more for private parties. We do.

Originally posted by ThePez


Unknown Original bands will be lucky to get paid this much by a bar or club. Private parties are diffrent. You should charge more for private parties. We do.

We do, too. :) Haven't played a frat party in years, though. I'm OLD, man! :cool:

What I meant to say by that is that the going rate for musicians hasn't changed much in 30 years. And that's a shame. How much have salaries gone up in that time? How have we, as musicians, allowed ourselves to become LESS valuable a commodity?

Bottom line is that it is no one's fault but our own. We allowed it to happen by not believing in our own worth.

Originally posted by Ronzo
How have we, as musicians, allowed ourselves to become LESS valuable a commodity?

It's not all our fault. I too, used to make more on club gigs prior to the late 80's. The major factors that killed the bar business where I live were the permanent raising of the drinking age from 18 to 21 and the crack-down on drinking and driving. The prospect of losing your driver's license for a year when you've had two beers has kept a lot of people home, or at least sent people home earlier.

In 1987 I had a house gig every Friday night at a club that held 175 people. The place would turn over twice a night, always packed. There were still 150 there at closing time. There were two cash registers and they would average $3,000 per register, and the club charged a $5 cover. Today, even the most popular bands can't get people to show up in those kinds of numbers, let alone get them to spend that kind of money on alcohol. I understand the economics our local club owners have to deal with today.

But when you've got a college crowd, especially if they can walk from campus, and you've got 500-600 people through the doors a night, and you're charging a cover, and you pay the entire band $100? Please.

Originally posted by Craig Garfinkel


It's not all our fault. I too, used to make more on club gigs prior to the late 80's. The major factors that killed the bar business where I live were the permanent raising of the drinking age from 18 to 21 and the crack-down on drinking and driving. The prospect of losing your driver's license for a year when you've had two beers has kept a lot of people home, or at least sent people home earlier.

In 1987 I had a house gig every Friday night at a club that held 175 people. The place would turn over twice a night, always packed. There were still 150 there at closing time. There were two cash registers and they would average $3,000 per register, and the club charged a $5 cover. Today, even the most popular bands can't get people to show up in those kinds of numbers, let alone get them to spend that kind of money on alcohol. I understand the economics our local club owners have to deal with today.

But when you've got a college crowd, especially if they can walk from campus, and you've got 500-600 people through the doors a night, and you're charging a cover, and you pay the entire band $100? Please.

Amen! Well stated.

This is a very interesting subject which i have intedded to investigate for a while now.

If you work it out buy the person a DJ normally earns more a gig than an individual in a band...(I know i am a DJ) I think this sux!!

I have worked with many bands (as a DJ and as my father is an agent for DJ's/bands) I most of the bands i have seen/worked with work for £300 a night ($550?) but i have worked with some who earn £1800 a night ($3000) but by heck they deserve it!

I have been playing bass for for 1 and a half years and i have recnetly taken up tennor saxophone.

All though i owe the fact i have quite a bit of kit and some nice basses to DJ'ing i still prefer gigging to DJing ANYDAY!

As a DJ i am booked every weekend and most thursdays but i am very willing to get my gigs covered to play with a band....(even if i end up loosing money) Allthough i am willing i should not be this way....

Sorry to ramble but thats how i feel.

(Btw I normally get at least £100 a night as a DJ ($160)