I'm just about to place an order for an EUB bass from a builder in the UK (www.shukerguitars.co.uk) and since I don't play upright was wondering that if I learnt to play this bass (which is standard 41" scale) how much re-adjustment with regards to playing would be required to play an acoustic if I needed to?? Is it not very realistic to think that if I can play an EUB I could play acoustic??
No "just get an acoustic bass" comments please cos I've got definate reasons as to why want an electric....
cheers
Philip

Some things you'll be able to learn, like getting used to the string length (41" is on the shorter side, on average) and the vertical nature of the beast. The day when you go to the big fiddle for real you're going to still have a lot to learn as far as sound production and the like.

Originally posted by ceeprm

No "just get an acoustic bass" comments please cos I've got definate reasons as to why want an electric....
cheers
Philip

Why worry about acoustic Double Bass at all, if you have definite reasons for getting an electric bass?

Looking at the pictures on that page - the neck seems a lot slimmer and flatter than a real DB - which could be another problem, moving from that to the real thing.


http://www.shukerguitars.co.uk/uprightfull2.jpg


I would be inclined to treat this as a different instrument in its own right and not as a Double Bass.

Originally posted by Bruce Lindfield


Why worry about acoustic Double Bass at all, if you have definite reasons for getting an electric bass?

Cos Im sitting in work and I'm bored- and if I ever have about £5K to spend on a bass i would consider getting a nice acoustic (seems you have to spend that much).
The one I want wont look like that- it will sit on a stand like the NS and I've got the option of that fingerboard or a more curved (bowable) one....

I had a student a few years ago who used an EUB. Like DoeRay Mifasoul said, you'll be able to learn the vertical nature of the fingerboard.
You'll also be able to learn basic pizz technique, how to position your hand and pull the string, but getting a sound out of an acoustic instrument will require more than that. Also, playing an eub feels nothing like trying to get around the real thing.

Thats basically what I thought- I would definately like to get into proper upright in the future but its not practical or financially viable at the moment so if I get to grips with the EUB I'll be one step closer to becoming upright bass master.....

Originally posted by ceeprm
Thats basically what I thought- I would definately like to get into proper upright in the future but its not practical or financially viable at the moment so if I get to grips with the EUB I'll be one step closer to becoming upright bass master.....

you can get a decent plywood bass for less than you can buy one of them canoe paddles.

EUB is nothing like Casa De Fido.

I'm with Pacman; if your aim is to get a DB eventually, you might as well just get one. Decent EUBs like the Azolas, NS Design, etc., cost as much as a good entry level DB. And you'll need to drag along some kind of amp.
One possibility; I have an Azola Bugbass that sits idle for months at a time, and only gets put to use when I tour. I've loaned it to people who wanted to get their feet wet. Maybe you could find someone nearby who's in the same position.
I guess a few people have used the EUB as a bridge to DB, but it's really a different beast.

Originally posted by Marcus Johnson
I'm with Pacman; if your aim is to get a DB eventually, you might as well just get one. Decent EUBs like the Azolas, NS Design, etc., cost as much as a good entry level DB. And you'll need to drag along some kind of amp.
One possibility; I have an Azola Bugbass that sits idle for months at a time, and only gets put to use when I tour. I've loaned it to people who wanted to get their feet wet. Maybe you could find someone nearby who's in the same position.
I guess a few people have used the EUB as a bridge to DB, but it's really a different beast.

My reasoning for wanting an EUB is for live use- ie something that will plug in an sound good with no problems. The stuff that I'l be playing is hip-hop/drum'n'bass stuff (not exactly trad jazz) so I'l be wanting a lot of bass from my sound. There is currently one guy in Edinburgh who plays an NS and when I see them play live I'm always impressed how good he sounds. On the contrary to that there is another guy who plays acoustic upright in a few jazz bands and I recently saw him play some funk stuff where a much greater volume was required and he just wasn't getting the sound required- one case I know but I constantly hear of how difficult it is to get a good DB sound in high volume situations. Also as I live in Edinburgh DB shops arn't that plentiful and the best I could do for an acoustic would be £1000's worth of Chiniese ****e.(no disrespect to the Chinese). If anyone knows where I could get the sound Im looking for from an acoustic for around £1000 then I might buy them a pint.....

I agree with everyone else who's posted - getting a decent-sounding acoustic will probably cost you less money than a decent EUB.

It really depends on the sound YOU want. Volume questions aside for the moment, which sound do you prefer? Electric or acoustic?

i had been playing upright for a long time before i played an EUB.

I think as do most everyone else here that you can learn some things on it. as Ray mentioned dynamics and bowing will probably need readjustment.

I have a pretty nice upright, and i bought a NS 5 string. The thing that disoriented me about the NS is the lack of heel block; i had no point of reference for hand position. I got over that.

I still prefer "Casa di Fido" (john that is great !)

but the NS or any other EUB still has a usefull place in my family.
Actually, i've had a few leaders that asked me to use the NS instead of acoustic; i think more out of wanting to look the part more than sound the part - i disagreed but they were paying me.

Sorry- misunderstood your intent. If you're looking to start playing something upright in a live situation ASAP, there's a ton of affordable EUBs out there. Many of them are basically fretless bass guitars tipped up on end. An example of this would be the KYDD bass, and what's the other one? Carruthers? The string length is shorter, and you could probably approximate some DB effects on them. Arco is another matter entirely. (All Hail!) Bob Gollihur's site has links to a whole bunch of 'em.
That said, I've played my DB at live volumes equal to or surpassing that of my popsicle stick. The stage volume remains the same, and it's all basically in the PA at that point. I've done this with jazz, trip hop, acid -whatever, makes no difference if you're friendly with the sound guy.

yeah, if the place has a good p.a. one can keep a reasonable volume on stage (so as not to cause the acoustic bass to feedback or start sounding ****ty as it's getting there) from their own rig, while sending a signal to the board to get an abundance of volume out front. that's what i do on my rock gigs. if i try to carry the room with my rig up on stage, i have to turn up too loud and end up either feeding back or having an undesirable tone.

honestly, for loud sitchyations where you're playing modern stuff to begin with, i think an eub will frequently a)sound better and b)cause fewer problems. you can get louder and bassier with them without feedback, and still get a tone that (depending on your gear) can sound like a good amplified db.

that being said, though, i'm still playing db in the rock band. i don't need one more axe, and the thing is more versatile than an eub, for my money.

sean p

Originally posted by thrash_jazz
I agree with everyone else who's posted - getting a decent-sounding acoustic will probably cost you less money than a decent EUB.


You'd think so wouldn't you? But as I documented around here - I searched for a decent DB for about 2 years and couldn't get anything at all!!

There are very few shops in the UK that sell DBs and even less that have any in stock !!! ;)

I believe from what people told me that the situation is different in the US and Canada?

So - the basses fell into 2 distinct categories - those that were cheap at about £1200 - I tried some of these and couldn't get anything out of them, in terms of any usable sound - didn't think they looked very good or were well-constructed - i.e. likely to last any time!

To get anything better, you went to the next category - but these started at about £5,000 - way beyond my budget!! And there is nothing in between - believe me I searched!!

Contrast this with buying an NS EUB - the Bass Centre in London were able to get me numerous examples to play - piezo only/magnetic, 4 or 5 string.

Plus - they were about £1700 - £2,000 and what's more I could pay by interest-free credit - bingo!! Whereas the DB sellers wanted all the money - cash on the nail!!

Already I am sold - but the real clincher is that the NS basses sound great and I can play stuff within about 20 minutes of acquaintance!! I have used mine at many Jazz jams and alway get compliments on how great it sounds!!

I still haven't seen a decent DB for sale at less than £5,000.......:(

Thats what Ive found- was talking to Laurance from Overwater a while back and he wanted a good DB so much that he sold all his EB's and went and spent about £5000 on a decent one. The only option would probably be to get one made- and then I'd need a decent mic/pickup system which I'm guessing dosn't come cheap...

That's the sort of choice I was looking at - an EUB that sounds great and which I can afford - or a DB that is way beyond my means and which will be difficult to amplify in my big band - 13/14 people!!

Originally posted by Bruce Lindfield


I believe from what people told me that the situation is different in the US and Canada?

So - the basses fell into 2 distinct categories...

I suppose it must be... the situation I experienced seems to be the complete opposite of yours.

I am now renting an $1800 Knisch plywood (which I probably will want to buy at some point) which is pretty good for the price. It has some playability issues, but sound-wise it beats most in that price range that I've heard.

By contrast, the cheapest EUB I have been able to uncover is the Azola BugBass at $2200 or so (and that is the bare-bones version). An NS here costs close to $3K. Plus, those instruments are not in stock at certain stores - meaning if you wanna try 'em, you have to buy 'em.

I have seen what appear to be some great deals at (All Hail!) Bob Gollihur's site and elsewhere, but the US/Canadian exchange rate, Customs fees and taxes kill the possibility of saving any money.

Sitting here in Winnipeg, Canada, I can relate to how hard it can be to find a DB in Edinburgh. The public schools don't have string programs anymore, so there are zero rentals available. Still, it's one of those things where if you're bound and determined, you can make something happen. I came real close to driving 800 miles west to Calgary to look at an old Czech plywood bass I scoured out via the net (looking in the next biggest cities; Minneapolis appeared to suck when net-scoured for basses) . The very morning I was getting ready to leave, one of my local dealers (John at Sleddog Music; good guy, John) called me up with "something special". It weren't so special, but I didn't make the drive.

I've learned a lot of bass luthiery since then, let me tell you!

If you're sitting in a densely populated part of the world, you may not be able to relate to how exotic a DB is in a rock 'n roll world. In Winnipeg, it would have been easier to learn oom-pah on the tuba.

I wanna know: how the h*ll can you play FUNK on a DB? I've never heard anybody do it. Earthy, dirty, lascivious, sure, but you can't be Bootsy on the DB. Maybe I'll be shot down in flames, but I say it can't be done. If that's what you're after, go for the EUB. It will sound mostly like a electric bass guitar, and the action will let you get into that funky hammering and pulling. That sh*t don't flush on the DB.

Originally posted by Damon Rondeau

I wanna know: how the h*ll can you play FUNK on a DB? I've never heard anybody do it. Earthy, dirty, lascivious, sure, but you can't be Bootsy on the DB. Maybe I'll be shot down in flames, but I say it can't be done. If that's what you're after, go for the EUB. It will sound mostly like a electric bass guitar, and the action will let you get into that funky hammering and pulling. That sh*t don't flush on the DB.

Who says you have to be Bootsy to play the funk?? You probably couldn't be Bootsy even on an EB.... If someone can play the funk then they will do so whatever instrument they play tuba bagpipes etc (well maybe exception of the last one!) Ray Brown and Christian McBride definately have their funky moments........

An EUB played correctly will sound a lot more like an DB than a bass guitar especially through a PA as I seen on many occasions...........

Originally posted by Damon Rondeau

I wanna know: how the h*ll can you play FUNK on a DB? I've never heard anybody do it. Earthy, dirty, lascivious, sure, but you can't be Bootsy on the DB. Maybe I'll be shot down in flames, but I say it can't be done. If that's what you're after, go for the EUB. It will sound mostly like a electric bass guitar, and the action will let you get into that funky hammering and pulling. That sh*t don't flush on the DB.

I also disagree on both and have heard people be quite funky of DB - like Christian McBride.

I think with the NS EUB, if you play it like a DB and are careful about how you finger every note, it can sound like an amplified DB. From trying various examples, I also noticed that the magnetic pickups and low action make it sound more like a big fretless BG - so I got the one with piezos only and tried to raise the action a little - the more you do the closer you get to a DB sound.

I have had nothing but good comments about the sound, from Jazz players - apart from one - which was kind of negative from a DB player - but I supected that he was resentful of the effort that I wasn't putting in!! ;)

Seriously - my view is that of course DB players can tell the difference - but most other musicians can't!

Originally posted by Bruce Lindfield
I think with the NS EUB, if you play it like a DB and are careful about how you finger every note, it can sound like an amplified DB. From trying various examples, I also noticed that the magnetic pickups and low action make it sound more like a big fretless BG - so I got the one with piezos only and tried to raise the action a little - the more you do the closer you get to a DB sound.

I have had nothing but good comments about the sound, from Jazz players - apart from one - which was kind of negative from a DB player - but I supected that he was resentful of the effort that I wasn't putting in!! ;)

Seriously - my view is that of course DB players can tell the difference - but most other musicians can't!


We've got two of those at work, a 5 and 6 string. And in my opinion, they sound nothing like a DB, but everything like a big fretless BG. And I can say that goes with the 50 other musicians I work with - virtually all the jazzers I play with can't stand the sound.

I did try out the Eminence in Canada last week. My iimpressions were that it sounded much more like a DB and any other EUB that I've tried.

Originally posted by Pacman

We've got two of those at work, a 5 and 6 string. And in my opinion, they sound nothing like a DB, but everything like a big fretless BG. And I can say that goes with the 50 other musicians I work with - virtually all the jazzers I play with can't stand the sound.


Well I did say it depended on how high the action was - and you also don't mention whether you were using the magnetic pickups?

I also think it's very much about how you play and approach it... if you play it like a fretless BG - no doubt it will sound like one?

OK, before I get a FLOOD of stuff about funk, let me just say that I was having a bit of fun with the "can't be done" statement. It was late, I was putting down what I was thinking, not editing necessarily.

Last night I re-read an old Dr. John interview, and he was bemoaning how inaccurate a word "funk" had become. I was thinking only of the classic Larry Graham / Bootsy Collins, thumb-slappin' and finger-poppin' electric bass funk. I was thinking of a style of electric bass playing, not a FEELING. The feeling I call funk may not be the same as your feeling, but if we wanna call it funk then we go for it. When we're talking a feel thing we can all have our own funk.

Musicians can play whatever they want, I'm no musical typesetter. The EB and DB are both basses, functionally at least. I noticed after taking up DB that, lines that sounded thin and wimpy on the EB took on a dignity on the DB. This was mostly in the area of walking four styles. The change in timbre of the instrument made me change the type of line I play. When I think of loud funk with a loud drummer, I think EB, it's the typical voice of that style of music.

As for the sound difference between the EUB and the DB, at some point it doesn't matter. There's an old story I read in Downbeat eons ago, about when Zawinul first heard Jaco. He listened carefully to a cut of "Continuum", turned to Jaco and said "That was nice. Do you play electric, too?" And Zawinul's got ears.

These days the music I play is mostly acoustic and I really like that after a long time of having a high-hat slamming in my ear. But, like tonight, when I'm going to be playing loud dance music, I pull the Warwick Thumb back into service. It's got the voice for that music.

Originally posted by Damon Rondeau
As for the sound difference between the EUB and the DB, at some point it doesn't matter. There's an old story I read in Downbeat eons ago, about when Zawinul first heard Jaco. He listened carefully to a cut of "Continuum", turned to Jaco and said "That was nice. Do you play electric, too?" And Zawinul's got ears.


That's right I remember reading that and it's a great example!! ;)

I have come across a few Jazz DB players who are very particular (I shouldn't say "anal" ;) ) about how the sound of the DB can't be achieved any other way - but in reality, most other musicians don't notice and are more concerned with a good groove or things like - does the rhythm section really swing!

I mean, I've heard badly-amplified DB's that sounded much worse than BG at getting a usable Jazz bass "sound". ;)

Originally NOT posted by Bruce Lindfield on TalkBassCLARINET.com

I have come across a few Jazz BASS CLARINET players who are very particular (I shouldn't say "anal") about how the sound of the BASS CLARINET can't be achieved any other way - but in reality, most other musicians don't notice and are more concerned with a good groove or things like - does the rhythm section really swing!

I mean, I've heard bad BASS CLARINET's that sounded much worse than SAX at getting a usable Jazz BASS CLARINET "sound".

Bruce, there's not much difference in feel, technique or physics between bass clarinet and tenor sax. The can play the same music. At high volumes, I'm sure no-one would notice. Unless they do.

My two cents: If you want to learn to pull sound out of a DB, and if you want to keep the most musical doors open, bite the bullet and find a DB. EUB is a useful tool, but it's only a rough approximation of DB sound.

Originally posted by Pacman



We've got two of those at work, a 5 and 6 string. And in my opinion, they sound nothing like a DB, but everything like a big fretless BG. And I can say that goes with the 50 other musicians I work with - virtually all the jazzers I play with can't stand the sound.

I did try out the Eminence in Canada last week. My iimpressions were that it sounded much more like a DB and any other EUB that I've tried.

Its also to do with the strings- I tried out one at the bass centre and it had the stock NS strings which were more like EB strings so of course its going to sound like a big fretless- Stick some proper upright strings on it use the piezo pickup raise the action and with the right technigue it will sound like an upright.......

Originally posted by Samuel


Bruce, there's not much difference in feel, technique or physics between bass clarinet and tenor sax. The can play the same music. At high volumes, I'm sure no-one would notice. Unless they do.

My two cents: If you want to learn to pull sound out of a DB, and if you want to keep the most musical doors open, bite the bullet and find a DB. EUB is a useful tool, but it's only a rough approximation of DB sound.

I think you're probably right on both counts - but in the end, music and things like sound are very much subjective and "in the ears of the beholder" ;)

So we could all be hearing exactly the same thing, but one person says that's only a rough approximation; another says that's nothing like it and another says it's good enough for me!!

I heard the Berlin Philharmonic recently with a wonderful string section and I know that they wouldn't have got anything like the sound they did, with anything other than the particular instruments they had in the concert hall.

But on a Latin gig, where most people are dancing away, there are 3 loud percussionists, amplified guitar, keyboards and a large horn section - then I doubt anybody in the audience will be able to tell or would notice, if I am playing EUB or amplified DB!! ;)

Originally posted by Samuel



My two cents: If you want to learn to pull sound out of a DB, and if you want to keep the most musical doors open, bite the bullet and find a DB. EUB is a useful tool, but it's only a rough approximation of DB sound.

I also play Rhodes piano and am lucky enough to have a real one- so basically I am now of the opinion that nothing except a real Rhodes sounds like a Rhodes but when I'm gigging I simply can't be ar$ed lugging the thing around so I use a Roland keyboard which gives me Rhodes, Hammonds, Wurly and Pianos etc none of which are the same as the real thing but all of which are perfectly acceptable if played well in a live situation. Its the same with EUB if played well.....

I'm with you all the way on that, Bruce. If it swings, rocks, schmecks, whatever word you want, then it's cool. Keep doing it. I don't care if it's a banjo and vibraphone duo with the banjo taking the bass part. If it's tasty, it's tasty. Who cares what's in it.

Originally posted by Damon Rondeau
Who cares what's in it.
I still might draw the line at a bagpipe bassline.....!

Going the other way, I have heard a Tuba player get some amazing sounds - so I can remember seeing this guy playing Tuba on a funky Stevie Wonder tune and it could easily have been Stevie's synth bassline if you had listened to the gig "blind"!! ;)

Me too, ceep.

When white folk came to this part of the world in large numbers, a lot of them were Scots. I grew up with bagpipes, and I love 'em actually. In the right context they give me the goosebumps. In other contexts, they give me the nausea.

Just caught Bruce's Stevie reference. I saw him once in a hockey rink. His bass player blew my f*cking ears off. THAT guy was funky!

I know 7 or 8 people who have EUB, half of them have an URB because they are too lazy to go out and hunt for a DB, the other half because they are too lazy to carry a DB all the time.....
About some posts saying that is hard to get a DB in some countrys/citys....i agree...i use to live in Portugal, small country with not much DB culture, almost impossible to find a good instrument at a good price....
Didnt give up, i emailed, i called and wait...at the end I bought my bass in Amsterdam....2000 km away....and for a very good price...
When you really want.......
But thats just my 0.02 of course.


NUNO

Well I suppose I would rather be playing and having fun, than waiting on the off-chance that a decent DB is going to come around in my price range.

I am also not a pro - if I was doing this all day every day, then I have no doubt I would want a real acoustic instrument. But with a full-time day job plus other obsessions, I know I don't have the time needed to do justice to a really good DB!

I am happy that the really good, dedicated players are making best use of them! ;)

Seriously I appreciate all the work that goes into the sound I hear and enjoy every Friday night at my local Jazz club and it's better for everybody that they have the great DB's, not me!

..... not to say that they can't sound good. I heard Gordon Goodwin's Big Phat Band today, and I believe that the bassist is using one of them canoe paddles (sounds like the NS to me....) and it sounds great. It just doesn't sound real.

Yep, I saw a lot of 'em at the Telluride Bluegrass Festival last year. That guy who plays with Sam Bush sounded awesome on his. But it still didn't sound like a double bass to these ears!

I've heard the band Pacman is talking about; Gordon Goodwin's Big Phat Band. They have some pretty cool tunes including a jazz arrangement of a Bach invention for big band. The band is mostly the same as the Tom Kubis big band with a few other players such as Arturo Sanduval:D The bass player (not sure of his name) gets a really great sound and there's one section of the second track, "Count Bubba" that he backs the tenor player with no other rhythm or horns.... the sound is really clean and precise.
My teacher, Joel DiBartolo, plays jazz mostly on a custom circa 1980 Clevinger EUB. He has a great DB set up really nicely for jazz playing as well as a great bass for orchestral playing, but prefers the sound of the Clevinger for recording purposes. Granted his bass can't be considered Clevinger anymore as he's changed the bridge, fingerboard, and electronics(pick up/preamp) over the course of the last 20 years to get the sound he wants. All together it is about $12,000 of experimenting, but it's payed off as he was the first call on the LA scene for many years and is still into recording.
Personally, I'm trying to get my DB bass to sound as clean as an EUB but still retaining that growl and woody tone that we all love about the real bass. I may eventually get an EUB if I can get one to sound like my teacher's just for the sake of portability. They're really easy to play and if set up correctly, they record better than a lot of double basses, but I think my DB will be my first choice for a while anyways.

Originally posted by CBFinet

Personally, I'm trying to get my DB bass to sound as clean as an EUB but still retaining that growl and woody tone that we all love about the real bass.

People say things like this, but tone is really subjective and I have experienced two people hearing the same thing and describing it completely differently!! ;)

Also - what is "that tone we all love"? So I go along to my local Jazz club every Friday and there is always a great DB player - but they all sound different!! So - some have a lot of noise from the strings - some are scratchy. Some are really deep and can only be felt through the floor or as an unpitched pulse; while some sound more like a Cello, with very precise intonation higher up the neck. Some have huge attack on every note, others have a smoother sound and even pronounced sustain and vibrato; while others fall in between.

And that's apart from the fact that some use combinations of different pickups and small mics - some use no amplification at all!!

I hear no one tone that defines Double Bass - but rather a lot of different ones - the only common thing is the role they play in the band.

Very well said Mr Lindfield.....

CEEPM

Have you tried this website. It's got a few DB's for sale in the UK.

Musical Instruments for Sale (UK) (http://www.musicalinstrumentsales.co.uk/index.html)


You can buy me the beer next time I'm in Edinburgh.
Cheers,
Andy

I think that website is fairly typical of what I found when I was looking for DBs in England - so there are a fair few "cheap" laminate basses that when you see, you just wouldn't want and are going to sound worse than an EUB!

Then there are the odd few basses that sound as if they would be good from the description; but you are looking at coming up with £4,500 or even £11,500 in cash!! Way beyond my means!!

This post could turn into "shall I buy a DB or a new car?"...........

Originally posted by ceeprm
This post could turn into "shall I buy a DB or a new car?"...........

Well, that's the other thing - I probably would need to buy a new car to accommodate a DB if I bought one- whereas the EUB folds up very neatly!

So - not only am I looking at £5,000 for the bass, I am also looking at around £10,000 for a car big enough to fit it in!! :D

Originally posted by redjeep!
CEEPM

Have you tried this website. It's got a few DB's for sale in the UK.

Musical Instruments for Sale (UK) (http://www.musicalinstrumentsales.co.uk/index.html)



PS - I liked one of the entries under Double Basses wanted - and this is in the "Strings" section!!

"Double bass pedal not fussed what make needed badly for a slipknot cover band so if anyone has one please sell it.
£50 "


Made me feel right at home!! :D

I originally thought "why would you need a double bass for a Slipknot covers band?" and then re-read it- still a slipknot covers band with a DB player could be interesting anyone???? Slipknot tunes in a trad jazz style.....

Originally posted by Bruce Lindfield


Well, that's the other thing - I probably would need to buy a new car to accommodate a DB if I bought one- whereas the EUB folds up very neatly!

So - not only am I looking at £5,000 for the bass, I am also looking at around £10,000 for a car big enough to fit it in!! :D

Apparantly you can fit a DB in a mini!

Originally posted by ceeprm


Apparantly you can fit a DB in a mini!

But nothing else at all - like an amp/cab, music stand etc ...or even, the driver!! ;)

You might be surprised what you can fit in a vehicle if you're determined. I've found that with cars, as long as the vehicle has rear access (minivan, stationwagon, hatchback) and a rear seat that folds down (or a split rear seat), I can get the bass and all my other stuff in there no problem.

The problem comes with other musicians needing rides, with all their stuff! Avoid at all costs pairing yourself with a drummer transportation-wise. He's got too many dicky little cases and he'll think of stopping for beer every 5 minutes.

I was only joking really - it just seemed too good a set-up from ceeprm to resist! ;)

On the other hand I do usually have to give somebody a lift and it is usually the conga player - we only just about fit everything in and there would definitely be no room for a "real" DB!!

congas are a bit of a pain to transport they just never seem to fit in the car with everything else-I only give lifts to our flute player and singers.

My teacher used to transport her DB in a very small Toyota. Reckoned it fitted in well (guess she meant snug).

I second the comment about driving drummers around - unfortunately both my brother and my father were drummers so I had no choice - my brother didn't even learn to drive until he was well into his thirties (and had been playing drums semi-pro for almost 20 years).

Sorry if he website was no use - but I also laughed at the Slipknot covers guy.

Cheers,
Andy