I have developed a unique technique I called "percussive harmonics" which is especially effective for 6 plus string el. basses.I really fine tuned this technique after twenty years of seven string bass playing.Anyone interested in hearing this technique,let me know,or if anyone has a suggestion on where to take a method book and cd to a publisher,please let me know-thanks

you want to describe the technique?

a brief description is : each finger of the right hand(if you play right handed) strikes the string like a piano hammer.depending where you strike,you change the harmonic.You are playing "closed" harmonics-chromatically,chords and each note is a harmonis with a clear percussive attack-sounds like a vibraphone or tubular chimes.You can play intense groves on one or all of the strings at the same time.You can play 64th note runs and hear every pitch.It's not like stick technique.I would be happy to get you an audio sample,I just haven't figured out how to put one on this site yet(just joined yesterday. with some practice you can play several parts at once,like the tumbao,clave and chord in an Afro-Cuban groove. I hava a tune," Haleakala" ,and if I can get a sound file up,you'll hear the technique used in place of drums and Bass,and a serious chromatic solo,all in harmonics.

Ah yes...I thought so, I have been doing that for a year now, It is VERY awesome. When I first stumbled upon all the different artificial harmonics and ways to make them, I started exploring the possibilities of tapping harmonics, tapping harmonics chords. You certainly have more experience under your belt and I would like to hear an audio clip.

probably the easiest way to do that is to First record yourself, then set up an account with a free webpage host(geocities isn't a bad first) then upload the clip to the webpage that you create and then post the link here.

http://geocities.com/variant08

is mine

I just noticed that you Already have a homepage..so just upload the files you record and post a link here

That sounds interesting ninestring- I ahve jsut started getting into the whole tapping world myself due to a lot of wooten exposure lately. Let us know when you get the sample up. You could always start an account at MP3.com I believe..
Oh, and welcome to TB!! :D

I don't think you can describe tapped harmonics as unique, but it would certainly be interesting to hear what you've done with it.

As far as publishing a method book, I guess you could contact the regular round of publishers, although without a big profile / lots of albums sold making people want to learn the technique it may be a struggle; the other alternative is to self publish via the web (either the whole lot if you're feeling generous or a sampler + an address to send for a CD or something if you want to see if it's marketable).

Wulf

When I say it's unique,I'm saying I've spent 35 years perfecting it. "Tapping" is a broard term.I've been tapping like on a Chapman stick for 28 years,but that is really "touching." When I bought the stick,it was called the stick Touchboard. my "Percussive Harmonic" technique is a refined system,giving the player total control of every note.I've recorded a number of instrumentals in which the entire bass part is played using this technique.I've had my compositions market tested with 3 and 4 star ratings from BillBoard.FM Quarteback,Gavin etc. They rate the composition for airplay,and don't seem concerned with bass technique.I am not trying to make big dollars here.merely pass on a sound for el. bass that is as radical as slapping was when Larry G. and ,then Stanley C. exposed a genertion of players to it.
Learning "percussive harmonics" is no cake walk.When I had Musicians union local 47 create a "percussive harmonics" category in the musicians directory in the 70's,I was amazed because a number of player listed themselves in that category. My "percussive harmonics" is not like anything you've heard any one play/I've been waiting for some player to come out and play this way,but it just hasn't happened.It seem some bass players don't like inovation.When I modified my 6 string basss into a 7 string (circa 1978) I showed up on gigs and got flack from guitar players.I called everywhere to find a ready made 7 string(there were none),ken Smith tried in 1981,and couldn't do it at that time(I lost a $400 deposit).The only guy who said yes,I can do it was Michael Tobias,and I gave him my string spacing and he built it.Soon after that,everyone was making 7 string basses.They weren't built with percussive harmonics in mind,so they are completely different instruments.You'll have to hear an audio file.I'll work on getting several examples up-

do you have a particular question for steve lawson or michael manring, or did you place this in the wrong forum?

just curious, you are aware that this forum is for questions for them specifically, right?

my original question is at the top of the page.would anyone be interested in a unique bass technique,and can anyone recommend an avenue to expose the method to those who are interested? Although I have been union musician for 32 years ,with live and recording experience,I don't consider myself a "Pro".I am asking for some professional guidance/help with presenting a very unique playing technique to bassist.I am new here so I thought you and the others were answering the questions-??????

Though you did present a question relating to the outer limits of bass(new and inventive techniques that is) You did not specifically ask Michael or Steve, granted they would likely be interested in what you have been doing, If you want more general responses from a wider variety of users, then relocating to the "techniques" forum may prove satisfactory. The purpose for John's inquiry was to determine whether your post should stay or be moved accordingly, so as to better suit you in getter the response you are looking for. If what you were looking for was Steve Lawson's thoughts on your technique, or Michal Manring's perspective, then by all means posting here would yield the results you wanted, but you did not specify, so it is hard to tell.

I apologize for any confusion. I thought by asking a question at this location,i would be addressing both,or either one.My label to be "Black Diamond records" folded soon after contacting me about a record deal in 2001.They market tested the recordings,and they came back with great results. They didn't notice the bass parts,but rather the maketbility of the tunes.The recordings were 7 string bass and nylon classical guitar.Just a duo.Non players could not discern who was playing what,but a noted guitarist/educator ,Sid Jacobs , mentioned that even musicians would need to see a performance to see there were only two musicians playing.it occured to me tht this technique could open up yet another avenue /direction for the electric bass,and really justifies having a 6.7+ string instrument.I would either one or both of these gentlemen's input. If this is not the place for thi kind of dicussion and quetions maybe you could direct me to other pro players who might have suggestions.Thanks

Yes , I have questions for them. That is why I posted here.How do they(you?) suggest I expose this technique?Do I put up some clips here?

Ninestring,

The technique you specifically describe in your post has been used a lot before, particularly by acoustic guitarists (Michael Hedges, Phil Keaggy and Don Ross come to mind, amongst others), and John Entwistle does it on a Hotlicks teaching tape from a few years back... I experimented with it for a while after hearing the Entwistle tape while at college, playing tunes, arpeggio patterns and some cluster chords like that... it is a very interesting technique.

If you want to post a link to some MP3s, feel free, it's always good to hear what people are doing to stretch the available sound pallette on the bass...

cheers

Steve
www.steve-lawson.co.uk

I was taught the technique in 1989. I also would like to hear some Mp3's.

Steve, thanks for your reply! Maybe I shouldn't put a " how to" book or CD together after all .I didn't realize so many players could play this way. Well, hopefully I didn't waste the last thirty five years developing an already existing technique ,re inventing the wheel so to speak:(. Thanks for your time and input.

You might not be able to patent it but we'd certainly like to hear how you've used the technique to make music. Get those sound samples up! (please ;) )

I remember when, as a teenager fairly new to the instrument, I decided that my mission was to become a virtuoso bass player, lifting the instrument from obscurity in the background of songs and breaking exciting new ground. Little did I realise that it had all been done before... (and I still haven't quite got to the level of virtuoso) - however, that certainly doesn't invalidate what I have learned and given back over the years.

Wulf

Hi ninestring

Wulf's point is extremely important - it certainly wasn't a waste of your time to develop your technique, any more than it was a waste of time for people who learn to play with other techniques that are already in use. Remember, it's way way way more important to be 'good' than it is to be original. Given the choice between writing great music that is within a clear musical heritage - not ground breaking, just really good, and playing something that no-one else has done before, but then realising there's a good reason no one has done it before, I'd go with the former.

If the music that you're making has meaning for you, and as you say, the people listening to it are connecting with it as 'music' not as a technique display, you've won! Well done, keep at it, and let us here those MP3s!

cheers

Steve
www.steve-lawson.co.uk

Thank for the input.Wulf,i agree with what you re saying.As a composer/arranger ,I hear other options for 7+ sting basses.They are a "different animal" and I feel they should be utilized to the fullest. I guess i isolated the technique for this "thred" and didn't want to bring compoition aor my other experience as a bass player. i have worked as a A.F.M. union bass player since 1970. i worked in night club s,hotel show room,cruise ships,corporate events etc.playing for classic recording acts like the coasters,the penguins,frankie avalon,thelma houston,little anthony etc. Tuxedo gigs,reading charts (notation)and playing the standard with duos all the way up to big band.I also have composed,produced and played bass on hundreds of jingle,TV and film sessions ,many of which were done through my own union company.I became good sight reader and click track player.
on the side,I developed my original music,and playing techniques for seven string bass.I wanted to play what I hears in my head. back in the late 70's,there were no 7 string basses.I had guitar shop tech guys add a string to my microfret 6 and fender bass 6.I asked ken smith in1981,but ,at that time he was unable to do it.a few years later michael tobia built one for me.he did a great job,so i was able to switch from my home made model to this bass easily. the technique sounded better on a real 7 string.i thought it was new to play an afro-cuban groove,playing the tumba,clave at the same time in harmonics.i am trying to get a few one minute clips of some music I did back then up for you to hear.I don't know how to up load mp3's here,so I'll come back on and post url when they are up,along with descriptions of what's on there.

I'm a fairly new bass player but , I think that once they hear what you've made they will all be suprised I just have a feeling... It's interesting what you have accomplished and I am BEYOND excited to hear what you've done... I plan to become a professional bass player and start my own band someday... I'm eagerly awaiting you music Ninestring... chop chop! j/k:D

Thats a nice thing to read Sojhen- you probably are right. Steve,and Wulf and everyone have made some good points.I was happy to wander on to this site. I am trying to fit some examples on a 10 meg web site provided by my cable company.It isn't much space for all the examples I wanted to post,but it's a start.As soon as I know it works,I'll post the address and give some explanations.I think I'll make them quick time movie audio files.I'll get back here when it works,thanks-

FASTER!! , FASTER!! I can't wait.. (Well, I really have no choice) but, I can't wait... lol :bassist: :bassist: :bassist:

OK-I am in the process of uploading MP3's to MP3.com.It takes forever, and you can go there and listen to my "Percussive Harmonics" used for grooves and solos insome of my compositions. These are all demo quality,recorded live to cassette,or to DAT ,all live,save for a midi driven Hi hat sample used as a click on one tune.It's a duo with a guitarist playing classical and my custom Tobias 7 string (dead strings !) no overdubs and I had to cut the tracks down to fit 30MB,so they are not complete tunes,but it should give you an idea of the technique I developed.Give it a few days(it's 3/7)
Artist: Garry Goodman with David Nielsen-guitar

Garry,

It's not clear to me what the left hand is doing in this technique. In other words, I can't tell if you're describing what are called natural or artificial harmonics.

The reason I ask, is that only a certain few harmonics (multiples of two and three) are very close at all to the equal-tempered equivalents that would be found by fretting a note somewhere on the instrument (or similar higher-pitched instrument if they're very high). In other words, notes other than octaves and octaves of the fifth from the fretted note, will fall outside the equal tempered scale.

I read on another thread that you were playing chords such as G7 flat 9 aug 11 with this technique. The minor 2nd and augmented fourth, especially, are pretty exotic for a harmonic series (you'd probably have a number of options). The result could be very interesting indeed! Though it probably wouldn't go too well with any other equal-tempered instrument.

Since the frets are equal-tempered by default, this would further complicate things.

Originally posted by geshel
Garry,

It's not clear to me what the left hand is doing in this technique. In other words, I can't tell if you're describing what are called natural or artificial harmonics.

The reason I ask, is that only a certain few harmonics (multiples of two and three) are very close at all to the equal-tempered equivalents that would be found by fretting a note somewhere on the instrument (or similar higher-pitched instrument if they're very high). In other words, notes other than octaves and octaves of the fifth from the fretted note, will fall outside the equal tempered scale.

I read on another thread that you were playing chords such as G7 flat 9 aug 11 with this technique. The minor 2nd and augmented fourth, especially, are pretty exotic for a harmonic series (you'd probably have a number of options). The result could be very interesting indeed! Though it probably wouldn't go too well with any other equal-tempered instrument.

Since the frets are equal-tempered by default, this would further complicate things.

Edit: as I type this, I realize it applies to either natural or artificial harmonics. So, my second question is independent of the first: which harmonics do you use, predominantly?

ok-the open harmonics that Jaco used are open,at least that's what I call them. You touch a place over the string and pluck with your right hand.I call the chromatic harmonics "stopped" harmonics.You play your left hand as you would finger notes while pluckingwith the right hand.The right hand assigns a finger and thumb so you can strike five to seven strings at once.You find the fundamental over the pick ups or highest frets.You also locate fifth,seventh and what ever else you can get out of your strings.I use new round wounds for the best tone,but I get tired of changing strings for 7 and 9(feel sorry for those 12 & 15 string guys). Nomater what note you fret,you find the fundamental harmonic and as you move in a chromatic scale fingers 1234-shift1234-shift up a string,you have to practice finding each overtone that is the same pitch your fretting with you left hand.I up loaded four tunes to MP3.com and I am awaiting approval at this time. when I figure out how to get to my "station" (Garry Goodman) I 'll post the url here.It takes some work to get each harmonic to match the left hand notes.If I voice a chord ,like an altered dominant,say root,7th ,5th,b9 as a four part chord,I have to play those harmonics exactly where the octaves lie on the right hand.This means moving your hand and arem horizontal to match the left had.These might cause to many neural peptides to roll around in your head,but with some practice,it sounds pretty nice. I have a tune "Can I Keep This Dream? " on there that is an emi7 to a b7+9 and I tap so you hear the fretted note,plus the harmonic. I will notify Steve when I know the songs are up and playable.I hope this helps-G

Generally I'm getting the picture, yes, thanks!

Though Jaco did use plenty of artificial, or "closed" as you call them, harmonics. I remember because those involved left-hand stretches that his giant hands were more readily capable of then mine. :)

I'm not sure what you mean by this:

The right hand assigns a finger and thumb so you can strike five to seven strings at once.

I was going to offer possible explanations, but I think I'll just let you say it again, perhaps another way. Thanks. :)

yes.describing this kind of thing without a visula is a challenge. I am not creating any harmonics with the fretboard hand(left hand) I am playing the left hand by either holding down a fret or several as you would in traditional bass playing.The right hand can do a number of this.The general position of the hand is similar to holding a drinking glass in your hand in front of you.The hand id more open as opposed to clenching a glass.The index finger will play the low e,the middle the a ,the ring the d,and the pinky the g.This is just one configuration.If I play a pattern across the strings with my left hand,say A on the 5th fret E string,Eb 6th fret A string A on the 7th fret D string and Eb on the 8th fret g string,at the same time my right taps the Estring 12 frets away,twith the index,the A string 12 frets up from the left hands fretted Eb,the ring finger 12 frets above the A on the 7th freton the D string and the pinky 12 frets up from the Eb on the the D string.It will take a second to find the correct spot for a harmonic that is the same as the fretted note.You can also play a 5th harmonic or other intervals as you try various fret lengths away from the left hand fretted notes.I spent at least ten years making each harmonic location for the right hand second nature,so I can play a 64th note scale run say at mm120,and have every harmonic come out clearly.When I figure out how to direct people to my page on MP3,I post it here and in Steve Lawsons thread,so those interested can check out the excepts.There is a tune entitled "Haleakala" and I had to cut off two minutes off the front to fit it into 30 mg per song.It starts into a harmonic solo with some 32nd note scales(just major).I am tapping the left as a stick player would,and tapping the harmonics on the right hand.After the solo,I comp an all harmonic tumbao/groove all in harmonics to support the guitarist's solo.I hope this will be clearer when you can hear all this.I wish I had newe strings on the bass when I recorded,they make the bass sound more like a hammered Dulcimer-

Tapping harmonics? Lots of people do it. E.g. Stu Hamm.

I would have to disagree-lots of people play bass,and how they play can be and sound very different from each other.You check out the audio samples,and if you honestly think anybody has the same distinct sound,please let me know.I have had some major musicians tell me that with out seeing a performance,they would not be able to tell what is being played by the bass.I have been at this for decades (read my posts) and I have yet to hear this technique anywhere, an entire piece of music driven with chordal percussive harmonics.I came to this forum asking if anybody would be interested in this technique,and the logical response was "let's HEAR it". Please read the entire thread.

i'm a bit of a newbie to bass (3 years), at least compared to a lot of the people here. i have to say that, while a lot of it is difficult to understand*, what ninestring is describing sounds pretty crazy, and, probably is really good. i don't particularly like music that is more about technique than musicality, but in your case, it sounds like the whackiness of the technique is only the means to making really great music.

two reasons it's difficult to understand:
1)some of it is just over my head
2)it's hard to describe things like this with no visual.

i'm very interested to hear it. and, even if sombody has done it before, that doesn't mean it isn't useful, or that you should stop. how many bassists on here play traditional bass style? nobody complains that it's been done before.

Conical-
Thank you for bringing up that point-My first posting was asking pros if anyone would be interested in learning a new technique.It isn't new to me.But I haven't heard it used anywhere else yet,and a musician suggested I share it with musicians sometime before I die.I got a lot of flack showing up on gigs years ago with a seven string bass.No one had ever seen one before,and many musicians asked me why do you need a seven string bass.If I came out now and wrote that I am the first 7 string bassist either someone will write back "no you aren't" or " who cares,lots of guys have one".i looked over and called everyone for a five year perion starting in 1979 .No one made them .I had one buit so I could have room to use this percussive harmonic technique.It is not some whacky ,crazy thing.I am a compser,and I play these cmpositions using this technique on this bass and also a 9,and a straight ten string.The compositions were market tested at BDS(Bill Board),NMW(New Music weekly) FMQB (FM Quaterback) R&R(Radio and Records) and Gavin commercially reporting stations.The music,the compositions themselves stand on their own with 3 and 4 star ratings from this market test.Most audiences that have heard these tunes just like the music,and 98% of those people have no Idea of what kind of technique I use,This stuff about technique does not music make is based on lack of information.The thing that makes my tunes happen is the groove I play on my bass.It's just me and a guitar player,and when he chooses to play a single note melody or solo,the rest of the accompaniment is me.It is a great alternative use of the bass guitar.it doesn't matter if some already developed the technique.I know I spent most of my life doing so,I haven't heard anybody get close to this sound.I thought it would be good to share it,because it does take time to get it under your fingers.I do solo gigs and accompany my vocals on solo bass with this technique because it has a full sound.The sensible players here,and above all Steve Lawson pointed out what they thought was important for me to consider.I did post this to ask a pro.Others just want to tell me I don't know what I talking about or make fun of my typos.The bottom line is you'll have to hear the sound for yourself.I only signed up as a Gold member(sounds like a movie title) on MP3.com so it will take a few days for their approval process. This url should work by Wednesday:*http://www.mp3.com/Garry_Goodman

Alright: it ain' pretty,but i got the Page up,but only three samples(will be 5 any day)The Mp3 loses some bass response on the cassette recordings.Have at it!
Go to MP3.com and type in Garry Goodman.My page should be there(splitsecondmusic.com is up again) I fixed the typos but it takes 48 hours for the changes to take effect.

:eek: wow....wow.....wow....wow....wow....wow....wow.... .........wow....wow....wow...wow...wow....wow:eek:

Wacky. Sounds pretty cool. You get a little bit of the harmonic and a little of the natural string sound it sounds like, most of the time.

Which bass did you use on "Tap Dance on a Cloud"? I'd almost swear that sounds like a Zon.

wow wow wow wow wow wow

you live in vista california? thats about 2:30 hours away from me, are you available for lessons? I don't know how easily it could work out, but I would love to have some first hand insight into this technique, it sounds great.

that's pretty cool, thanks for sharing.

are you planning on recording a studio release?

That sounds good - personally, my pick of the three would be the 'Bumper Music' track. Did you say that you've got a couple more tracks on the way? I look forward to hearing them.

Wulf

Thanks everybody for you patience! I didn't know I would have to learn basic html just to get the page up at MP3.There are still two songs that should be available soon.
Wrong Robot -I deeply appreciate your enthusiasm for the technique. I wasn't sure if anybody would be interested in it,so that is why I asked up at the top of the thread.If even one bassist is interested,I guess it's worth sharing.
Geshel-I used the Tobias bass on all the samples.It has Jim Williams' on board 18volt paramtetric EQ ,and although I can get the harmonics with out it,it makes it much easier to play.I can let you know when I upload some Warrior 9 string bass samples,if you are interested in hearing them.I am still trying to decide whether or not to install a pre amp.

John Turner: I have been trying to do that for about 7 years.I don't know what you thought about the guitarist, but he really made those songs work,and knew how to compliment the bass parts.He has been unavailable from year to year.Trying to replace him has been difficult.As I mentioned somewhere in an earlier post, I was offered a deal with Black Diamond Records in 2001,distributed by Sony.We started to record the tunes,but then they went out of business.The MP3 may be a way to get David,the guitarist into a studio. I still have to scan some photos for you,and I don't know if I will be able to attach them to an email here(?).

Thank You to Steve Lawson your great input and allowing this to go on here.I apologize for any misunderstanding. You have really helped me to gain a better perspective on the "bass "world".
if anyone reading all of this wants to know more or has any ideas please let me know-thanks

Wulf; yeah that recording had newer strings,and it had to be 'rock oriented" becausr Mark and Brian are on KLOS 95.5 FM in L.A., and it's a classic rock format.Two more are tracks.The are supposed to be available,but they are not showing up on the "artist Page". The first one is "Can I keep this Dream? and the first minute of the tune is solo 7 string. The other tune is a full length version,and it still reads "not approved" on the load page.Than tune is a transcribed piano part played as you would play a stick,with guitar voicing on top,so it sounds like a "Guitar Orchestra" The C section has the bass switching to the percussive harmonic bass/comp and then a traditional single note plucked style bass solo.Towards the end,the bass plays two independent lines inbetween a guitar motif,so it sounds like three players.Hopefully it will be available soon. I am still working on playing that tune better.
Eventually there will be about 10 tunes up.One tune written by Dave Nielsen the guitarist, "bubble work", has the bass playing four octave unison arps-you might like that(?)

Pretty darned impressive alright! ...and this is certainly the right place for it!!
Not sure if I like your style of music all that much - just a little bit too easy going for my tastes, but that's not the focus is it.
A fantastic use of a technique it has to be said!

Good stuff :)

..and I was proud of being able to incorporate one or two tapped harmonics into a bassline :rolleyes:

Wow!

Great stuff, Garry!

The composition is good - especially "Kona Blend".



Though, on the radio one - "The world's only 7 string bass player"? Err...

Moley-I'm glad you like the compositions! The tecnique is just a vehicle to give the music a different sound color and rhythm section alternative. The world's only 7 string bass player comment was pretty much a reality back then. Even in the early 1990's ,when more started showing up,there wasn't a whole lot of recordings made featuring the 7 string bass.Most of the media personalities , ( if not all) like Mark& Brian on KLOS,Chuck Niles on 88.1 (the voice of jazz) and other radio personalities never heard of a 7 string bass. The "first 7 string bass" was a thing that became a term that these announcers grabbed on to in the eighties/nineties.I have a CD with 20 minutes non stop radio plugs for my Southern California gigs with the duo.I felt pretty safe back then with that fact.it was good to document it,because it's part of Bass Guitar history. As you can hear,I use all the seven strings on those tunes. I felt a real need to establish hte credibility of the instrument,and justify to to the musicians the reason for building such an instrument.I felt you needed to be able to instantly identify the instrument,just like you can when you here a 12 string guitar.You may notice that several pieces have the low B and the high 24th fret f played together.It was a signature sound of the 7 string,because no one had heard those two notes at each end of the instruments range before. I'll be uploading more 7 string music,but with different technique. Bach (piano) invention # 1,rearranged to fit a 41/2 octave bass.It's a four finger on each hand stick like application. Thanks for your positive input!

Ah I see, so this was back in the times when 7 string basses weren't around.

Out of interest - what instrument did you use to compose "Kona Blend" - a piano or guitar or somesuch, or did you use the bass?

Moley-at the risk of being repititious,I wrote in another post about what I went through to get a real 7 string built,custom made for my needs.After converting a Fender 1962 bass VI( now fully restored to original) and a Hagstrom 8 string reconfigure to be a straight 7,I wanted the real thing.From 1976 or so to 1980,I called everybody(some laughed). In 1989,I was pretty sure I was the only guy.Most players don't like my spacing on that bass.I have been playing the Warrior 9 for the last three years,and just not have that technique working on all nine strings,its wider at the pickup than at the nut,the Tobias was similar to how a guitar stays even all the way down the fret board.Makes stick style playing easier.

I played the part on piano originally and did a sequence of the tune with percussion and a flute playing the melody.When looking for suitable tunes for the duo,I had to transcribe the piano to fit into the 7 strings limited range by dropping parts down an octave etc.I can play the exact piano part ,without changing one note on the 9 string.What wasn't transcribed from the piano part was the "C" section where the comp for the guitar solo is the percussive harmonics.The bass solo is just standard plucking style.The flute counter melody at the end was played on the right hand. I just heard from David,the guitarist,and he agreed to re record the tunes for a cd master. You'll be able to hear a fuller low end on the new recordings.Thanks,

Ok-The tune "Can I Keep This Dream? " is now uo.The first minute is solo Tobias 7 string and the changes include F#mi7b5 ,B7b9,,C#7+9,Emi11,and Bb13.These are all played with harmonics and normal string sound together.This was a live to DAT recording,and this tune should really help you decide if percussive harmonics is a unique technique.and something useful to bass Guitarists.I will continue to add more songs to that site.Steve and Michael ,many thanks for permitting these posting interactions to go on in one of your threads-Garry

Howard-thanks for the encouragement! I grew up as a rock and Roll singer playing Cream and Yes,and Little Richard on a four string and an old GibsonEB6 (sorry I sold that one!).I hear what you are saying about the style.I wanted to find a type of music that had plenty of open space so this technique would be functional,and not considered over playing. I had a quartet with the same guitarist plus drums and keys doing a Brand x kind of thing.I could add some of the technique(the keys had a Moog bass pedalboard) But the harmonics got buried in the drums and multi keyboards.This music you heard got great market test results for smooth jazz,world music.I see that it is liked by all demigraphics, but it was recorded to really be a show case for the technique.and to show the skeptics back in the 70's and 80's what a 7 string can do.Yes,the technique works great on 4,5,6 string basses.I don't think having another color on the bass "palette" would hurt. The styles you heard allowed me to use 6 and 7 part chords and demonstate how nice altered dominant chords sound with six harmonics ringing at once.also playing against the changes and playing a dominant 8 note scale in harmonics really ony works with the "jazz chords" Having new strings sounds best but we all know how they sound three days later.Again thanks for your input!

I wanted to find a type of music that had plenty of open space so this technique would be functional,and not considered over playing.

Say no more! :)

The way music is put into genre's means that talented musicians can literally choose a genre as a vehicle for their new ideas accross.. I think anyway?!
I'm impressed mostly by your persistance with this. It must've been really be hard work back in the day.. when solo bass was a dirty word!

It must cost you a fortune in strings... a 9 string set must be what, a $100 or more? :eek:

"Say no more!

The way music is put into genre's means that talented musicians can literally choose a genre as a vehicle for their new ideas accross.. I think anyway?!
I'm impressed mostly by your persistance with this. It must've been really be hard work back in the day.. when solo bass was a dirty word!

It must cost you a fortune in strings... a 9 string set must be what, a $100 or more? "

Howard -you've heard the joke about the guy who charters a guide to take him deep into the jungle,and he asks the guide"what do those drums in the distance mean? and the guide replies "very bad,very bad" "Why" asks the traveler and the guide responds "Bass solo next" . I think a solo,in the form of a tune,such as "Portrait of Tracy" is great because it is an emotionally gratifying composition expressed on an instrument that many consider incaple of such rich tonality and performed with exceptional technique and feeling. I try to always write a tune you could whistle(Tap Dance on a Cloud,only Woody the Woodpecker could whistle) and is easy to follow.I try to incorporate technique and solo playing in a way that doesn't have anyone say "very bad,very bad". Yeah,I have had my trials with all of this.
I have a string endorsement with GHS and get my 7 string set at a reasonable price. I prefer the low B to eb tuned in fourths for the nine string.I also can use the low F# to Bb,but for solo bass,I prefer having the upper range.it really is a Bass/Guitar.Getting the top two strings is not always easy. I am always eager to learn about sources for strings.What kind of strings do you prefer?

Aye, tis generally a good joke that one! I must admit, when I tell people about Steve's material they tend to look horrified - now I usually just put it on instead!

What kind of strings do you prefer?
>>> To be honest they're so damned costly I usually stick to medium gauge steels. I experiement every now and then, nickels are nice, but a bit too smooooth, flats are great but have no twang.

Originally posted by Howard K


It must cost you a fortune in strings... a 9 string set must be what, a $100 or more? :eek:

Double bass strings cost more than that for a 4-string set - I just got some Pirastros for 150 Euros - the gut set was over 250 Euros!!! :eek:

Jeez, 150 euros!!

I have absolutely no idea how much that is in real money, but it sounds an aweful lot ;)

Originally posted by Howard K
Jeez, 150 euros!!

I have absolutely no idea how much that is in real money, but it sounds an aweful lot ;)

About £100 I think?

I 'll let you know when I get my credit card statement! ;)

I paid 136€ for the strings and they added something for \P&P ...

Just a note on unique techinque-the sample "Can I keep this dream? " is fixed and plays. 'Angelita" and and the Bach invention should be up this week for those who are still interested. "Angelita" has the Cmaj.Aug.11 in Harmonics as well as Db 13+11.it starts with f#mi7b5 to B7b9+11 in harmonics.

A full length version is up

is this a valid funtion for a bass guitar?

Originally posted by Ninestring
a brief description is : each finger of the right hand(if you play right handed) strikes the string like a piano hammer.depending where you strike,you change the harmonic.

Congrats... you just re-invented one of Stanley Clarke's techniques :D

It's a lot of fun though.

Thank you Motormind,but are you certain about that ?-Having played this technique in 1976 , and having all of mr. Clarke's albums,and having been to many of his live performances,and having been to his home and met him and his wife(also a bassist )and never having heard him play this way on any occasion,especially on a 6 or 7 string bass, playing 6 and 7 part chords in harmonics,I must have missed the time he played this way.If you can give me a name of a tune or album where I can hear him play chromatic harmonics,I would greatly appreciate it. I spoke with mr .Clarke backstage in the mid 1970's about playing a 6 string bass,and he told me the necks were too small for his hands. I am almost 50 years old,and I have videos of me playing a 6 string bass when I was twenythree doing this technique ,and mr. Clarke was not playing this technique then, or at anytime for that matter,on a 4 ,5 or 6 string bass. I am a great fan of mr. Clarke,and was sent over to his house by my bass teacher to check out one of his Clarke basses in 1982. He is a genius,in my opinion.
I asked a question on this forum to see if there was any interest in learning this technique. The topic here was :is there any interest in learning this techique ? I was asking Steve Lawson ,not just anyone. How would you know it is fun playing with this technique ? Do you play this way ? If you can provide me with a recording of mr .Clarke or anyone playing a dominat7 chord b9+11 or any other 6 part chord in harmonics in any key,or throughout an entire tune playing all the changes in this manner,I would greatly appreciate hearing about it. Some of us don't know where your "ears" are at,so I'm not sure if you know what I am talking about. Listen again carefully to some of these examples,then tell me where else i can hear this technique.Thanks for your comment. http://www.mp3.com/Garry_Goodman

You ask if this is a valid function for bass guitar...

I really don't know much about the business, or have much experience to answer you, but hear me out. I think you shouldn't be asking if this is a valid function for bass guitar. I mean, who cares? It obviously sounds neat. There shouldn't have to be the question "is this a valid function", that is limiting to your creative output! There's no time in the near future I would be moving up from 4-string bass (I have so much to learn!), but if this technique was taught in a way that includes any number of strings, I'd certainly be interested in learning it.

The technique 'Percussive Harmonics" works on any stringed instrument ,but is easier to play on some and harder on others.It works very well on a 4 string, and provides a way to play chords in any key , clearly . As far as me asking if it is a valid technique,I was really asking Steve,because this is his forum,and I wasn't sure if he ever heard the examples I put up.

Originally posted by Ninestring
The technique 'Percussive Harmonics" works on any stringed instrument ,but is easier to play on some and harder on others.It works very well on a 4 string, and provides a way to play chords in any key , clearly . As far as me asking if it is a valid technique,I was really asking Steve,because this is his forum,and I wasn't sure if he ever heard the examples I put up.

Well, I have been using this technique myself, mainly to add an extra octave to a note I play - if that really is the technique you mean, because I honestly have a hard time telling by the jumbled description in your posts :confused:

You asked me to name a Stanley Clarke tune where he uses this: it's clearly audible at the end of "School Days", for instance.

If you think you've heard the technique I am using already used on "School Days ' then we are not discussing the same technique.For starters ,mr. Clarke was playing a four string on the album,and I am playing six part chords in harmonics. Exactly what track and where in the track is the technique being used? I'm guessing you haven't read the entire thread,and haven't taken the time to listen to my audio samples before commenting here. If you can honestly tell me that you are playing the same way I am on the tunes "Haleakala' ,"Can I keep this Dream? " or "Tap Dance on a Cloud" on my MP3 page ,then I would love to hear it. Where are your audio samples posted ? I'd like to hear your performance with the technique I've been working with for twentyfive years. I was willing to share this technique,but it seems so many bass players are more interesred in discrediting me as a musician than talking about and learning a unique bass technique.if you know how to play this way already,let's hear it.

Originally posted by Ninestring
If you think you've heard the technique I am using already used on "School Days ' then we are not discussing the same technique.For starters ,mr. Clarke was playing a four string on the album,and I am playing six part chords in harmonics.



I don't think that the number of strings has any bearings on the technique in itself. I have a 12-string touch-bass on which I use the same technique.



Exactly what track and where in the track is the technique being used?

School Days, at around 6:48. it's not a whole lot of notes, but it's the same basic technique and it was the only spot I knew by heart. I do know that Jeff Berlin uses this technique too.

I have listened to some of your tracks and despite it being a waterfall of notes, I think it's basically the same stuff. There are no recordings of me with this technique. I have some music up at http://www.mp3.com/kat_yidaki where my bass playing - if present - is merely supportive for the track. Showing off on bass is really not me, generally :D

Putting your hands on the bass strings is pretty much the same stuff.Playing one of the same 12 notes available on a bass is pretty much the same stuff.Slapping is pretty much all the same stuff.This isn't the first time I have had this discussion over the past two decades or so.Sorry,but i am not hearing an entire bass line or tumbao/clave groove being laid out in harmonics on the bass,four string or otherwise on "School Days " (I always like the cover of that album ).I hear open harmonics,I hear stopped harmonics,not "Percussive Harmonics" If he knew this technique,why didn't he ever use it as he does slapping? The entire bass and chordal structure is being played in harmonics underneath the guitar on "Haleakala" There is Amaj.,E9,C#7+9,F#mi9,Gmaj9,Dmaj9 and E11 voiced in five part harmonics supporting a single guitar note melody and solo .The "waterfall ' of notes as you call it is just a color to be used in a situation where there is only a bass and a guitar creating the music.Audiences of all ages actually get a smile on their faces when they see and hear that.It just isn't on "School Days" and as much as I love Jeff Berlin's playing-it just doesn't include this technique. I don't hear anyone playing a 32nd note scale pattern in all harmonics, switching to an altered dominant 6 note chord arepeggio in 32nd notes in harmonics accurately on el. bass. You may not like it,or think it is tasteless,but that is not what this thread is about. I use this technique on a four string,and play maj 7,mi7,altered dominant chords and i just can't find em' on "School Days " . I was playing this "waterfall' or what other colorful terms you want to call it back in the 70's,before the first Stanley Clarke album with Vulcan Princess on it.I haven't heard a complete solo bass grove with bass and harmonics like in "Can I keep this Dream? anywhere. What's the big deal? I've been playing nearly 40 years,32 as a full time union musician.I asked if anyone wants to learn the technique.You just want to prove thatI didn't develope this type of playing. Why ? Do I think I am the first human to hit a harmonic on a string-NO-but I haven't heard anyone in the last 40 years play a bass line like the one on "Tap Dance on a Cloud". Aren't we supposed to be creative with music? I looked everywhere for a 7 string bass to play this technique on,and there was no such thing.Then I become the first guy to play one, and play and hear a low b with a 24th fret f string harmonic for the first time.Aftera few years bass players stopped laughing at the bass and manufacturers started building them . George Harrison hits one harmonic at the end of the solo on "Nowhere Man",Jimi hendrix hit an E and a d a b7 above at the beginning of "Stone Free" Jaco played"Portrait of Tracy" who developed the open harmonic technique? Who did more than a one note or one time trick with the technique? Jaco is the guy who brought the technique together and made an entire piece using those harmonics .Unfortunately your best example doesn't even demonstrate a chord or a line or a couple of notes played the same way that i play.I have looked to find harmonics played the same way,but can't find those F#mi7(b5) or C9+11 arpeggios in harmonics like i can on "Angelita" . I was playing solo 9 string bass when an industry pro suggested I share this technique before I expire.That is why I asked about it in this forum.Post a recording of you playing this technique. I can play the entire head of "Donna Lee" in harmonics,I'll record it and post it.You'll see that in order to do that,it requires a definite harmonic playing sytem that doesn't exist on "School Days"-i love that album!

Are we talking about music here, or some kind of athletic or sports "contest"!!??

Sounds like some kind of contest, anyway.... ;)

Originally posted by Ninestring
Putting your hands on the bass strings is pretty much the same stuff.Playing one of the same 12 notes available on a bass is pretty much the same stuff.Slapping is pretty much all the same stuff.

Actually Garry, this sums up almost exactly some confusion I've had with this thread. You've got skills, you've been innovative, much respect is due. But, when you first posted here you asked: is anybody interested in hearing about this technique I have? The problem is, what is the technique? Tapping artificial harmonics? Playing chords? Playing 5- and 6-part extended chords? Arpeggiating 5- and 6-part extended chords using a combination of hammer-ons and tapped artificial harmonics? This is already leaving what, I at least, consider the realm of "technique".

But you keep adding further qualifications, to distinguish yourself (rightly) from those that have followed somewhat similar avenues in the past. 32nd notes. Tumbao/clave groove. Specific chord names. It basically comes down to, this "unique technique" is: to play like you do. Well, nobody else does that!

Your posts come across at first as if there's some "big thing" technique that you've really invented. What you have is elements of techniques that, while not commonplace, are fairly well-known these days. What you keep defending, and what may be unique, is not your technique, it's your style.

So what I see is people extracting the techniques out of what you mention, and seeing that they're nothing new (though they might have been when you developed them thirty years ago!). You interpret this as a personal attack.

I appreciate your time and input Geshel.And I understand your point(s). With other harmonic techniques,the player is limited to what can be pulled off open strings such as the open harmonics Jaco usesd on" Portrait for Tracy".There is stopped harmonincs like Jaco played on "Birdland".That is a monophonic technique.I've seen guys hit one chord in harmonics by smacking the fretboard ,but it ends there. I am indeed talking about a technique,a way of playing that allows the player to play single notes,two notes,five notes ,octaves, anywhere on the fret board and play a clear bell tone harmonic on EVERY SINGLE NOTE. You can play on two strings,say in major 3rds,moving up the neck,fret by fret playing every note in harmonics. Tell me who has been doing that? What would happen if I asked every bass player who can play "Portrait for Tracy" to transpose the tune into three different keys and play the tune in those keys? It wouldn't happen anytime soon .I use various chords,and 32nd note runs to demomstrate that my technique allows the player the ability to play with a new color.anything you can play with your fingers,can also be played in harmonics.One can play" Jingle bells' ,"Satin Doll" or "Happy Birthday" or 'Thunder and Blazes" completely with harmonics with the technique. If it's an old technique that so many people have played,why doesn't one of those bass players put up some samples.It's not what I play,the style,the key ,but HOW those notes are played.It's like playing a chord by strumming with a pick,plucking with fingers,slapping with thumb etc. It's not the chord,it's how it is physically played.That' technique,not style.This sound is Unique.Listen again to "Angelita" on the Mp3 page.The bass is playing a left hand arpeggio stlye bass line-that is the style.Listen(dead strings and cassette recording aside) how the notes are played-the technique used on the solo bass beginning of "Can I Keep this Dream" and determine whether or not you could use that technique to enhance what you play.Listen to the bass groove under the guitar solo on "Haleakala" and see how the chords,bass line are played-all harmonics. I was offereing a step by step organized method to develope a very specific , accurate technique.that is a "really big thing" to many musicians who have the ears to appreciate it and I did invent it.I am the first to develope a sophisticated means to manipulate percussive harmonics to play chromatically ,larger chord forms ,and bass /comp for entire pieces of music.If everyone can play this way like some of the posts on this thread,then i don't need to teach it.I've been told I have been rude by coming on this forum to ask a Pro(and there seems to be a lot here) if this is something bassist would want to get into/be interested in. How is this technique fairly well known now ?Who established this to make it fairly well known? What is the definitive album I should buy to hear the most advanced players of this technique,the guys who invented it take it as far as it can go? Who did I steal this from , the same guy I got the idea to have a 7 string bass built from?

Originally posted by Ninestring
. I am indeed talking about a technique,a way of playing that allows the player to play single notes,two notes,five notes ,octaves, anywhere on the fret board and play a clear bell tone harmonic on EVERY SINGLE NOTE ..... I am the first to develope a sophisticated means to manipulate percussive harmonics to play chromatically ,larger chord forms ,and bass /comp for entire pieces of music.

1. Maybe I still don't understand: what exactly is this technique, other than tapping artificial harmonics? What more, physically, does it take to be able to play a harmonic on "every single note"?

2. Can you play all of the notes in a chord this way at the same time? (I'm just curious - seems like that would present the right hand with some severe difficulty, depending on the chord shape).

P.S. I guess I'll be the one to have to say it, but I at least would have a much easier time reading your posts if you would break them up into smaller paragraphs. :) thanks.

Guys,

I hate to be the party pooper, but this really doesn't belong here any more - please start a new thread over in miscellaneous or somewhere. Discussions about how unique a technique is that get into the unique application of said technique are never going to be resolved in this way...

thanks for understanding.

Steve
www.steve-lawson.co.uk

It seems like Garry's "technique" is simply a highly refined and perfected form of a crude and simplistic technique used by many bassists.

The concept is nothing "new" per se, but garry's level of proficiency makes it new. Similiarly to how Jaco, when he used all those open harmonics, he was heralded as an innovator with that technique, it became part of his sound.

I wouldn't call the whole tapped harmonics thing a unique technique, because it is not new. But, what Garry has done to the technique has made it really stand out, and he has created a voice of his own with the technique, thus translating into his style.

Again, I think we all just need to SEE this in action, to get a clear sense of what exactly you ARE doing, but where it stands over text, There is no way to really demonstrate how this technique is new; just highly refined.

however, one thing that we are neglecting to take into account is the fact taht garry has been doing this for 20+ years....so while in this day and age his technique is nothing new, perhaps back then it truly was unique to the fullest sense of the word.



edit: sorry Steve! posted at the same time as you

Steve-thank you.I started the thread to ask you or Michael if there would be interest in a unique technique.I was new when I posted my inquiry,and though that the replies were indeed pros answering my question.I had no intention of being rude,or anything less than respectful on your forum. I do appreciate your initial replies.I was waiting for your suggestions once you heard the examples you expressed interest in hearing.I guess everybody has this kind of harmonic thing figured out already.Thanks for your time.

Originally posted by geshel


1. Maybe I still don't understand: what exactly is this technique, other than tapping artificial harmonics? What more, physically, does it take to be able to play a harmonic on "every single note"?

2. Can you play all of the notes in a chord this way at the same time? (I'm just curious - seems like that would present the right hand with some severe difficulty, depending on the chord shape).

P.S. I guess I'll be the one to have to say it, but I at least would have a much easier time reading your posts if you would break them up into smaller paragraphs. :) thanks.

Geshel-I wanted to respond to your questions,didn't see your post last time-There is no way to answer questions in one sentence,sorry if I make you read a little. There is nothing to this other than tapping artificial harmonics-unfortunately tapping artifical harmonics is no small task.Holding down a groove hitting 3-7 notes through a number of chord changes with those harmionics takes some work.
#1-it takes accuracy,which comes with a series of exercises to be able to hit the root,fifth,7th etc.exactly,with the same velocity for every note.Your tapping hand is moving from the 12th fret to the bridges like piano player jumps one or two octaves.That takes considerable practice to play a rhythymic chordal figurs repeatedly at fast tempos.
#2-yes,you can play every note in every chord in harmonics.To do this you have to learn a new way to use your right hand.This is why i say it is a unique technique.The "School Days" Example is a finger pluck,like Jaco on 'Birdland'. My postings come across to some as jumbled words,but you are not going to get how to do it off a few posts.it's hard work.I am uploading "Dune Dance",a composition on the mp3 site written by guitarist David Nielsen.The bass is doing 4-5 note harmonic chords and plucked bass notes-it is not random "bing-bang" harmonics.There is also the rhythmic aspect of playing all this

Honestly, Ninestring... the jumbled mass of words in your posts very much resembles the massive barrage of notes you use in your tunes. Don't get me wrong: I think your harmonics technique is very cool and I wish I could play that stuff at even quarter speed, but it just doesn't sound too musical to me... at least not in the tracks I heard from you so far.

Hearing you play does bring up some ideas with me though, so maybe you like us making a track together? :D

I don't expect everyone to like my playing,compositions, technique. I respect your opinion. It would be different if the Billboard,Radio& Records and other market testing organizations results came back with less than four and three star rating for those recordings.The non bass playing public just likes the music for how it sounds.They don't know what instruments are doing what.I don't think you have listened to the accompaniment played on the bass on all the tracks ,and are referring to the solo on only one track as far as lots of fast notes.I think a technique should serve the music ,and it has been great to see audiences from Hong Kong to Hollywood actually get up and dance to "Haleakala" because the bass groove does the job of percussion as well as bass.It's just dotted 8th and sixteenth notes ,not a massive barrage. The audience likes the sound of the music.The technique serves the music.When you only have two guys playing,both the "comp" and the solos need to be doing something.Applying percussive harmonics to the groove is the whole point of the tecnique.It give a bass player the power of bass, grove and range to effectivly support another instrument in a duo situatio,and is extremely dynamic in a solo bass situation.The solos are just icing on the cake....

Originally posted by MotorMind
Honestly, Ninestring... the jumbled mass of words in your posts very much resembles the massive barrage of notes you use in your tunes.



I agree - I think this is the sort of thing that stops people listening or reading!!

So - some of best advice I heard, was to "breathe" like a wind player - in the end people would far rather hear something like this, than a continual stream of notes!

Interesting, that the same applies to writing and being read!! ;)

I must say, I do find your posts hard to read, Ninestring. To be honest, at times I have not bothered to read them, for this reason.

Capitalization, spaces after full stops/commas, and most importantly - paragraphs!

Take a look at this:

Putting your hands on the bass strings is pretty much the same stuff.Playing one of the same 12 notes available on a bass is pretty much the same stuff.Slapping is pretty much all the same stuff.This isn't the first time I have had this discussion over the past two decades or so.Sorry,but i am not hearing an entire bass line or tumbao/clave groove being laid out in harmonics on the bass,four string or otherwise on "School Days " (I always like the cover of that album ).I hear open harmonics,I hear stopped harmonics,not "Percussive Harmonics" If he knew this technique,why didn't he ever use it as he does slapping? The entire bass and chordal structure is being played in harmonics underneath the guitar on "Haleakala" There is Amaj.,E9,C#7+9,F#mi9,Gmaj9,Dmaj9 and E11 voiced in five part harmonics supporting a single guitar note melody and solo .The "waterfall ' of notes as you call it is just a color to be used in a situation where there is only a bass and a guitar creating the music.Audiences of all ages actually get a smile on their faces when they see and hear that.It just isn't on "School Days" and as much as I love Jeff Berlin's playing-it just doesn't include this technique. I don't hear anyone playing a 32nd note scale pattern in all harmonics, switching to an altered dominant 6 note chord arepeggio in 32nd notes in harmonics accurately on el. bass. You may not like it,or think it is tasteless,but that is not what this thread is about. I use this technique on a four string,and play maj 7,mi7,altered dominant chords and i just can't find em' on "School Days " . I was playing this "waterfall' or what other colorful terms you want to call it back in the 70's,before the first Stanley Clarke album with Vulcan Princess on it.I haven't heard a complete solo bass grove with bass and harmonics like in "Can I keep this Dream? anywhere. What's the big deal? I've been playing nearly 40 years,32 as a full time union musician.I asked if anyone wants to learn the technique.You just want to prove thatI didn't develope this type of playing. Why ? Do I think I am the first human to hit a harmonic on a string-NO-but I haven't heard anyone in the last 40 years play a bass line like the one on "Tap Dance on a Cloud". Aren't we supposed to be creative with music? I looked everywhere for a 7 string bass to play this technique on,and there was no such thing.Then I become the first guy to play one, and play and hear a low b with a 24th fret f string harmonic for the first time.Aftera few years bass players stopped laughing at the bass and manufacturers started building them . George Harrison hits one harmonic at the end of the solo on "Nowhere Man",Jimi hendrix hit an E and a d a b7 above at the beginning of "Stone Free" Jaco played"Portrait of Tracy" who developed the open harmonic technique? Who did more than a one note or one time trick with the technique? Jaco is the guy who brought the technique together and made an entire piece using those harmonics .Unfortunately your best example doesn't even demonstrate a chord or a line or a couple of notes played the same way that i play.I have looked to find harmonics played the same way,but can't find those F#mi7(b5) or C9+11 arpeggios in harmonics like i can on "Angelita" . I was playing solo 9 string bass when an industry pro suggested I share this technique before I expire.That is why I asked about it in this forum.Post a recording of you playing this technique. I can play the entire head of "Donna Lee" in harmonics,I'll record it and post it.You'll see that in order to do that,it requires a definite harmonic playing sytem that doesn't exist on "School Days"-i love that album!

If you saw this - would you want to read it?

Garry,

Thanks for the clarification on some of those points. Again I don't want to discount the work it seems you've done over the past couple decades. Hope you stick around and find TB useful.

You have an interesting viewpoint being a professional musician. I, personally, could not care less what Billboard thought of anything! :) But obviously that's an attitude you can't share.

Originally posted by moley
I must say, I do find your posts hard to read, Ninestring. To be honest, at times I have not bothered to read them, for this reason.

Capitalization, spaces after full stops/commas, and most importantly - paragraphs!

Take a look at this:



If you saw this - would you want to read it?

That's what I as saying - there seems to be a lack of empathy with the reader - the audience. More concern with getting it all out, no matter what and "sod who's listening (reading)" !! :(

Is any technique that interesting, if nothing is being said or communicated to an audience? Is any knowledge worth having, if it cannot be communicated ......?

'testing... testing... - is this thing on??'

Er, hello - which bit of my last request to take this elsewhere did you lot have trouble understanding? Here's a suggestion - one of you start a new thread about this in misc. then post the link here. After that, no more, please. It's way off topic for this forum.

Please, I'm not into moving and closing threads - I'd rather you could manage this stuff yourselves. So please, take it elsewhere. Slight diversions within relavent threads are no problem at all - this isn't a draconian measures thing...

thanks for understanding

Steve
www.steve-lawson.co.uk

Originally posted by Steve Lawson
Ninestring,

The technique you specifically describe in your post has been used a lot before, particularly by acoustic guitarists (Michael Hedges, Phil Keaggy and Don Ross come to mind, amongst others), and John Entwistle does it on a Hotlicks teaching tape from a few years back... I experimented with it for a while after hearing the Entwistle tape while at college, playing tunes, arpeggio patterns and some cluster chords like that... it is a very interesting technique.

If you want to post a link to some MP3s, feel free, it's always good to hear what people are doing to stretch the available sound pallette on the bass...

cheers

Steve
www.steve-lawson.co.uk




he Outer Limits: Exploring the finer (and not so fine) points of solo bass...


Steve-I put up the samples, per your suggestion,and was waiting to get your input. Your posting above was on page two.Everytime I ask you if you've heard them or if you thought it was a valid technique, I get others answering for you or members talking about the price of strings.I was trying to complete the process with you and get some suggestions .Of all your threads,it seems this one has been viewed the most. I don't know why you would want to close it. I wanted to establish with you the fact that John Entwistle did not develope this technique . I appreciate your earlier response.I was interested in your thoughts now that examples are on MP3.com Thanks for yout time-

>>>he Outer Limits: Exploring the finer (and not so fine) points of solo bass... <<<

you missed the first part off - 'Ask Steve Lawson and Michael Manring'... ;)


>>>Steve-I put up the samples, per your suggestion,and was waiting to get your input. Your posting above was on page two.Everytime I ask you if you've heard them or if you thought it was a valid technique, I get others answering for you or members talking about the price of strings.I was trying to complete the process with you and get some suggestions .Of all your threads,it seems this one has been viewed the most. I don't know why you would want to close it. I wanted to establish with you the fact that John Entwistle did not develope this technique . I appreciate your earlier response.I was interested in your thoughts now that examples are on MP3.com Thanks for yout time-<<<

The discussion started on topic, then it drifted into a protracted exchange about whether your technique was unique or not, that just revolved around defining the parameters of your technique. I think we're all agreed that tapping harmonics is not unique to you, and that acoustic guitarists have been doing it for decades. Your contention has been that you do it 'differently' to anyone else, talking about the harmonic details of what you do, and how many strings you have. Others have suggested that's what defines your 'style' rather than the specifics of your technique. And so on. It's now just a circular discussion that's not going anywhere, and isn't discussion the finer points of solo bass, nor is it a question for michael or I.

In answer to your earlier question, I had a listen to the samples - you've obviously spent a long time working on that technique and you execute it with great clarity. I haven't had time to listen to them repeatedly, so I'll reserve comment on the musical side..

and on that note, I'd counsel that you were, in my humble and certainly not infallable opinion, perhaps unwise to enter a forum announcing the uniqueness of your technique without any prior introduction. A message board like this is built on two things - friendships and reputation, both of which take time to build. Extensive claims (outrageous or otherwise) about the amazingness of your music are, 99 times out of 100, going to generate hostility, merited or otherwise. People are naturally cynical and suspicious or people appearing seemingly from nowhere and announcing their own innovations. Rightly or wrongly, that's the way the net, and more specifically, these kind of discussion boards work. There's a degree of banter that the healthy and productive, and then there's point scoring, that generally degrades all those concerned.

If you'd just posted a link to the MP3s, with a brief note about what you were doing, and invited comment, you'd have left it far more open for people to choose their level of engagement with. As it is, people have been far more interested in questioning your claims of uniqueness than in engaging with your music for its musical merits, despite your protestations that you've scored highly in these survey things (of which I have no experience or knowledge, so can't comment on their usefulness either way)

I would humbly suggest that you get involved in the rest of the discussions on the forum, make a few friends, watch how people interract, and add your MP3s to some of the 'show your MP3' threads.

Thanks for encouraging discussion here, it started out very interesting, and I'm sure people have thought through some of the aspects of the relationship betweens style and technique in a way they haven't before, and if you have any more questions, then feel free to post them here, or in the appropriate forum elsewhere on the site...

take care

peace

Steve
www.steve-lawson.co.uk

Steve-

Thanks for you reply. I have a better understanding of this site. I don't understand why, out of all musicians ,it's the el.bass players who become hostile , or are the first to try and discredit someone's work , even if that person "come out of nowhere " .
I have replied to a number of posts and offered information on a number of threads. I have been involved in a number of discussions ,and made some friends here. I've also endured insults on this site. Thank you for your explanation of how this site works . I respect your thoughts and opinions.

Ok-on the actual topic .Regarding this comment:

" I think we're all agreed that tapping harmonics is not unique to you, and that acoustic guitarists have been doing it for decades.'

There is a big gap here.Players "tap" harmonics-vague at best-which harmonics would they be ? In my experience ,I've heard a note or chord here or there, a few notes played.I've seen guitarists "spank" the strings to get a harmonic chord-No-that is not unique to me. At best,this is a 'trick" a novelty .Having an organized ,chromatic harmonic playing system that allows a player to play all the chord forms that exist and any and all notes in harmonic is. I haven't hear a guitarist or a bassist playing all the changes or bass notes in harmonics from the beginning of a tune through to the last note.(I'm not talking about Jaco harmonics here) Here's a perfect example .If the changes to a tune are:

f#mi7b5 / B7b9+11 /emi11 /a7b9/d9/Dbmaj.9+11 /cmaj 9 /
to play each note of those chords in harmonics takes a specific technique,and if you want to transpose the changes a half step higher each time you play them through,and still play every note in a clear harmonic-it takes a technique. To solo over those harmonic changes in harmonics takes a technique.It has nothing to do with style. I say it is unique because everyone here has failed to provide an example of someone doing this. How everyone agrees that this system is not unique ,and how they arrived at this conclusion is somewhat delusional.You are a pro,I know your "ears" can hear what's going on ,but how developed each TalkBass member's ears are here is questionable.. I know some players on this site(based on the postings) couldn't identify a Cmajor 13+11 chord when they heard it,let alone if it is played in harmonics .Am I being unkind? No, just realistic.As far as guitarists playing this way for decades-the higher two strings don't speak and sustain the percussive harmonic well,so I need to be directed, once again,to a recorded example. If you get a chance to listen to the bass parts on the mp3 examples , I think it will be difficult to find this complete harmonic playing system ,or one that allows complete harmonic freedom on a recording prior to my first recordings of this technique circa 1977.Thank you for the opportunity to voice my opinion and respond.

best,


Garry

Originally posted by Ninestring
Steve-

Thanks for you reply. I have a better understanding of this site. I don't understand why, out of all musicians ,it's the el.bass players who become hostile , or are the first to try and discredit someone's work ,

Actually, TB is one of the friendliest sites on the net I have come across and feel free to try the same thing on the DB players - you won't know what hit you!! :D

I metioned El. bassists in general ,not TB. And what same thing would I be "trying" on another site? Making a life time of playing,education and technique available to bassists interested in expanding their abilities? Asking a pro on the site what they thought?My solos are phrased in 2,4 ,8 or 16 bar primary and secondary phrases. If you don't know what those are ,I'll explain them,but not on this thread.There is only on solo on one piece with 32nd note scale patterns.Maybe I can't type, but I would suggest you learn how to listen before coming on here to "dis" me. Why do you have to go off topic here every post? As Steve requested, please take your other issues with me and my playing style somewhere else.If you want to know more about the technique, let's talk about it.

Wow! Talk about a "sense of humour bypass" !! ;)

Originally posted by Ninestring

There is a big gap here.Players "tap" harmonics-vague at best-which harmonics would they be ? In my experience ,I've heard a note or chord here or there, a few notes played.I've seen guitarists "spank" the strings to get a harmonic chord-No-that is not unique to me. At best,this is a 'trick" a novelty .Having an organized ,chromatic harmonic playing system that allows a player to play all the chord forms that exist and any and all notes in harmonic is. I haven't hear a guitarist or a bassist playing all the changes or bass notes in harmonics from the beginning of a tune through to the last note.(I'm not talking about Jaco harmonics here)



It all DOESN'T MATTER. It is still the same technique. The way you approach it I would even say that you are over-using it big time, making your lines a jumbled mess of tingly harmonics. I am not saying that the technique isn't cool (it is), but over-using anything is bad business. That is just my two cents worth, though.



Here's a perfect example .If the changes to a tune are:

f#mi7b5 / B7b9+11 /emi11 /a7b9/d9/Dbmaj.9+11 /cmaj 9 /
to play each note of those chords in harmonics takes a specific technique,and if you want to transpose the changes a half step higher each time you play them through,and still play every note in a clear harmonic-it takes a technique. To solo over those harmonic changes in harmonics takes a technique.It has nothing to do with style. I say it is unique because everyone here has failed to provide an example of someone doing this. How everyone agrees that this system is not unique ,and how they arrived at this conclusion is somewhat delusional.You are a pro,I know your "ears" can hear what's going on ,but how developed each TalkBass member's ears are here is questionable.. I know some players on this site(based on the postings) couldn't identify a Cmajor 13+11 chord when they heard it,let alone if it is played in harmonics .Am I being unkind? No, just realistic.As far as guitarists playing this way for decades-the higher two strings don't speak and sustain the percussive harmonic well,so I need to be directed, once again,to a recorded example. If you get a chance to listen to the bass parts on the mp3 examples , I think it will be difficult to find this complete harmonic playing system ,or one that allows complete harmonic freedom on a recording prior to my first recordings of this technique circa 1977.Thank you for the opportunity to voice my opinion and respond.


First of all, the description of your technique is very vague, but from what I understand the only unique thing about your style is that you use it very often. There is no need to insult my ears though. They may be off-standing, but they served me very well as a (semi-)professional musician :D

None of my comments are intend to insults to anyone.That isn't the topic here. There are many musicians who can't tell the difference between 250 hz and 500hz . There are many musicians who can immediately identify chords the instant they hear them.There are many musicians who still haven't taken time to develope perfect pitch and have to ask what key a song is being played in. If your ears serve you well, then you can't describe the harmonics used on "Portrait for Tracy" ,or Chris Squire's 'The Fish" and Jacos index and thumb harmonics on "Birdland" as the same technique. Both of those techniques require a different use of the hand.This technique requires a different use of the plucking hand and the fretboard hand.You will not learn how to learn the technique by reading about it.There is no such thing as over use when the compositions are written to demonstrate the technique,and that technique is an integral part of the duo's sound. Bad Business? I've gotten paid real money to play this way over the past twenty five years

"making your lines a jumbled mess of tingly harmonics'
Steve Lawson and other members here don't seem to agree with you. Maybe it's not your ears,maybe you need a different audio card to be able to hear the other frequencies.All the notes are click track accurate.

My descriptions of said techique may not be clear ,but most players can hear what's going on. If anyone is interested in this technique you can email me to discuss it there. I'm here to discuss technique with anybody who can hear the potential of percussive harmonics. If you don't like what I write,or how I play,you don't need to keep reading this thread .



http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/551/garry_goodman.html

Heya Garry,
I poke my nose in here every so often. I see your thread is really hanging in there. Didn't think it would strike such a controversial note. Interesting.

When I get home I'm going to check out your MP3 (that 9 string bass is beast, impressive; it just looks intimidating)

I've experimented years ago with what you describe your technique as (or something closely related); however, I look forward to hearing it.

I agree that the concept is not terribly new, but I'm also certain you have more insight and innovations using it than most (just from sheer experience).

Thanks Labrat-
I agree, I don't think the concept is new,it may not have been new in the 1970's when I first felt comfortable enough to start using it on gigs. I just don't hear a technique like this used by anyone long enough on a recording (more than 5 seconds) to A/B my concept/application with. Nobody offers a comprehensive method ,a book or even an article on playing this way.
My claim is that it is unique,and something that can expand a bassist's pallette beyong pick/finger/slap. I was just presenting it here for input from Steve or Michael. Steve has helped me get a perspective on everything involved from the technique to how players will respond to the idea , and a more logical approach in presenting it. I am grateful he has allowed this to evolve here ,and helped to keep it on topic. The technique opens a new door for the solo player.
The examples on the MP3 site are just 7 string,the most current recording made in 2000. I will add some more 7 string from 1979 used in a quartet situation.I will up load 9 string,and other styles. It takes a different attack to get the same harmonics to ring clearly on the Bb and Eb strings on the nine string . They are plain guitar strings ,and don't respond the same way the roundwounds do.The clavinet style four octave funk grooves are fun to play on the 9 string.i hope you enjoy the tunes-

How do you tune your 9 string?
B-E-A-D-G-C-F-Bb-Eb

Sounds like that is how he tunes it (from his reply).

Hopefully I get time this weekend to listen to those MP3's, everything is hectic for me right now, big life changes. I always considered the technique as bit of a novelty also. But, if those songs sound like what I think they will, I'll definetly change my opinion. I always love seeing someone "push the envelope".

Originally posted by Wrong Robot
How do you tune your 9 string?
B-E-A-D-G-C-F-Bb-Eb

For solo and duo playing, yes. I can also use a low f#-to Bb

the higher tuning gives you more options,more notes .

Labrat-wishng you the best while you are going through those changes-and to all of us through these hectic times.

David Nielsen's tune "Pontiya" is waiting for approval on Mp3.The bass part is a Samba groove with 8th note harmonic arpeggiated chords.There are some three octave lines , using the technique ,and a sampled high hat used for a click.The index finger is tapping the surdo line and the other fingers the harmonics.

Cool, can't wait.

Yeah, I have a very possible career change within the next 2 to 3 weeks (for the better), and a baby due around the same time.

OK-The tune , "Pontiya " is up at the MP3 site. The bass plays Samba style surdo switching from octaves(double stops )to "quadruple stops" in the intro sections.The A section has the Samba pattern continue with the eighth note harmonic arpeggio going.






Labrat-congrats on the new baby

there has to be some other name for this instrument. in the mp3, I hear 85 percent of the notes played have nothing to do with the bass range and are even high on a guitar. maybe finger piano or something or a baritone lute at best. but when I think of bass I don't hear this.


very cool.

Interesting thoughts Chris.You listen to some good stuff. Dave,the guitarist on the recordings is using a nylon string classical guitar with a pick up, and at this time, I only have my Tobias 7 string bass with GHS strings in various condition from almost new to dead. I noticed that certain combinations of notes from both instruments sounded at the same time create interesting over tones. The last chord of "Kona Blend" is a perfect example.I play a 6 note chord and he plays four notes.It sounds like something else is there. As far as the bass ,the percussive harmonics gives me control over evey harmonic, so some notes have a harmonic two octaves above the fretted note,some are three octaves,some 5ths and 7ths.I am also touching the fundamental with the fret board hand.Depending on my "v switch" or touch pressure for each note,I can have more harmonic ,or more fundamental. Tell me which tune you notice this sound on ,and I'll try to break it down. Remeber the 7 string only has 4 and 1/2 octaves ,but with harmonics ,I have the upper octaves.This is why I mention in my posts ,this is a system ,it's unique.You can hear some of the colors it adds to the bass. it makes solo bass playing a full range experience.
Wait until you hear the nine string stuff.

yeah....I'm not into solo bass but do what you do man....go cat go

Originally posted by chris griffiths
there has to be some other name for this instrument. in the mp3, I hear 85 percent of the notes played have nothing to do with the bass range and are even high on a guitar. maybe finger piano or something or a baritone lute at best. but when I think of bass I don't hear this.


very cool.

Chris-I just want to thank you again for this post . I appreciate that you can hear , and are open to new avenues and uses for the electric bass. The bass parts are there, but the additional sounds produced on the bass help out in a duo , or solo situation.
I was able to perform at a wedding and reception this past weekend as a solo 7 string bassist and vocalist because this technique allowed me to use my "bass chops" to pull off a keyboard style accompaniment for jazz standards, pop ballads and other vocal styles.

Just curious,what standards did you play?And does the technique serve the song or vice-versa?How would you approach the changes to a tune like say,"Autumn in New York",do you focus specifically on the physical aspect of your technique or can you say something spontaneously with it in a logical musical context?

cool stuff man. Can't wait to hear your rendition of marvin gaye's "What's goin on"

Originally posted by ConU
Just curious,what standards did you play?And does the technique serve the song or vice-versa?How would you approach the changes to a tune like say,"Autumn in New York",do you focus specifically on the physical aspect of your technique or can you say something spontaneously with it in a logical musical context?

I played "My One and Only Love" ,"Autmn Leaves" ," "Don't Get Around Much Anymore " ,"The Days of Wine and Roses" ,"Blue Bossa" , 'Freedom Jazz Dance" ,even 'Donna Lee" just to name a few. (had to play some pop stuff,too)
I don't know how a song can serve a technique-(except in the case of a tune like "Portrait for Tracy" with carefully chosen harmonics) The technique allows me to play bass lines ,chords ,solos as a pianist would , in any key , so the song is recognizable to the guests attending the function. If it doesn't sound right-I'll hear about it from somebody. I would play "Autumn in New York " as I would those other tunes. The physical aspect of the technique has to be "second nature" , just as it is when you play normal bass parts.
I would like to think that playing the tune from start to finish , and keeping the form of that tune while playing it , is saying something in a logical musical context. In the context of a wedding reception ,my solos allow me to "say something spontaneously" , or throwing in that b5 substitution here and there ,but I have to maintain the form of the tune . On any tune,especially swing ,I walk the bass ,comp the chords ,and play the "head' of the tune. If I am singing ,I just walk the bass ,comp chords (walk the bass in the left hand while soloing with the right hand). I like being able to do what a solo guitarist or pianist does for this type of situation , but with solo bass.The percussive harmonics gives me most of the piano range on a 7 or 9 string , and can give a four string new possibilities.

Originally posted by chris griffiths
cool stuff man. Can't wait to hear your rendition of marvin gaye's "What's goin on"

That was gonna be a surprize-who told you ?

That`s wild...I'd like to hear you play some jazz.I felt with your original stuff it sounded like the technique came before the music.Just my thoughts though.Good luck!

Originally posted by ConU
That`s wild...I'd like to hear you play some jazz.I felt with your original stuff it sounded like the technique came before the music.Just my thoughts though.Good luck!

On the original music - they are made up of melodies and chord changes , just like any tune.Those tunes can be played on piano,guitar etc. They stand alone as complete compositions without percussive harmonics.
To give the music a unique sound , I've applied the technique on the original tunes ,which is half of what gives the two players involved a full sound. I don't have the limitations of open harmonics , so I can play any chord in any key , using harmonics. (As I mentioned before , asking what would happen if you had to transpose "Portrait of Tracy" to three other keys ,and try to have the tune sound the same as it does in the original key when played on a bass ? )
When I started this project , I had enough of a task justifying a 7 string bass to musicians at a time when bass players were getting flack about playing 6 string basses.By using this technique , it gave the 7 string it's own voice. It was an instrument designed for special uses that you could also bring to your polka gig and just play two notes per song. On a tune like "Angelita" , which has some intricate chords for the traditional harmonic approach , the tune came first ."Angelita" sounds great played by a solo pianist . Having a technique that allows me to arpeggiate the chord changes in harmonics , no matter what those changes are , might make the tune sound like it was written around the technique.The tune is first ,technique second. I can function as a pianist does , playing bass and chords over several octaves . If it is originals or standards , the bass is very effective in a duo or solo situation.

nine string. this is cool. but I think you're going to have a better time moving this post over to techniques and letting it exist there. Just start a new post over there and leave a post here addressing the category changed.

Hey Garry-

I heard you were on this site. I just joined and this is a really cool site. I saw you play in 1999 at Louise's in Brentwood , CA.. Marcus Miller and his kids came in to see you play. After reading this Unique technique discussion . I realized that unless these guys see you play ,they won't understand what an incredible and unique thing you've done with your harmonics. I saw your interview on L.A. cable access about getting the first 7 string bass made . I went to your MP3 page , and I remember watching you play some of those tunes. I would like to know how you played that solo on Haleakala (sp?). I don' t know how anyone can confuse your style with Jaco , Stanley , or any other player . I heard that Al Dimeola's producer /engineer , Dan O' Brien is producing your CD . Are you going to publish a book on your technique ?
Roy

awwwww thats cute

And who is Chris Griffiths ? Who do you play with ?

7 or 8 boston bands. anything fun I'd pretty much do. find my post in bassists on who chris griffiths plays with

That's nice Chris.I just became a member . I did so because I received two emails from two bass players telling me Garry Goodman was on TalkBass asking for feedback from Steve Lawson about his harmonics. What is the "Aw ' that's cute" all about ? I have been tracking Garry down for four years trying to find out how he plays the way he does. I was glad to see I could find out what he was up to from Steve Lawson's forum. I was able to find out about his MP3 page here. I think you must be really good to play in that many bands . Your post comes across as a little weird ,with the "that's cute" . I joined to learn as much as possible about bass playing as I can. If that's "cute" well ok. The percussive harmonic thing is pretty incredible- I want to know what he's doing.

Roy

sorry man look I didn't mean to be a jerk. I have no idea who gary goodman is other then listening to his stuff on mp3.com which was cool. I just thought it was cute he had a big fan. I meant no offense

We're cool Chris . No problem. He has many fans . He is pretty well known in Los Angeles , Hawaii , and most points west. He was the first and only player with a seven string bass for many years , so musicians out here know his name . He is a monster player , solos like a sax player through Be Bop changes , works as a session player , etc. Most of the musicians I know that have heard his percussive harmonic thing know instantly it is a unique sound. They know nobody else does what he does. After reading this entire thread , I see that some players here liked his playing. This site is the only place I have seen him write anything about his playing . I really like Steve Lawson's playing , and found out about him and his site from TalkBass . The same with Michael Manring . I think it's pretty cool to be able interact with these guys . I signed up here because a couple of bass players told me Garry Goodman posted on here . I can't believe how some players posting on this thread are unable to recognize and acknowledge his distinctive sound and contributions to electric bass . Anyone with any musical ability can hear on his MP3's that he's a serious player. Why post anything that is unproductive , envious or not directly about the topic being discussed , i.e. the price of bass strings ?
In my opinion , a certain level of professionalism and respect should be maintained on this thread , this forum , and other forums when dealing with bassists of this caliber . These guys are the best we , as bass players have . I noticed today how many players read these threads . In my opinion , I think we need to think before we post. I think this thread is a very important one in the over all bass guitar "picture " . I plan to learn as much as I can from this great site , so that is why I was concerned when somebody might come across as showing disrespect to anyone here. It was my first post , and your reply my first reply . It didn't seem like a warm welcome. cool-

Roy

;) ;)

My post (http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=82521)

ok- I started out here because a guy at the NAMM show heard me playing at the Warrior booth on my 9 string and suggested that I share this technique sometime before I die . I have been working, playing conventions and in the studio doing union recoding sessions ,and playing my original tunes with guitarist David Nielsen . I stumbled across Talk Bass and saw the "ask a pro" . Steve and Michael are more in touch with the current bass scene than I am,by far. Who better to ask .I asked (being new,I was'nt sure who I was asking) if anyone would be interested in a unique technique . I was hoping for an answer on the best way to make the technique available to players ,possible publishers ,etc.
The response I got was more like an attack . I thought that the ask a pro meant ask a pro ,not everybody else . Steve Lawson's response was logical and I was happy with his input . I am a composer ,I write and produce music for radio jingles ,film scores ,TV themes etc. My clients include Fox ,NBC affiliates ,the NFL ,A&E network etc. I write and arrange for all instruments ,I am an excellent sight reader ,and can play with a click track . I am not some guy with a bass with too many strings ,just into technique.
If anyone has actually read this entire thread ,gone to my mp3 page and really listened to what the bass is doing ,has the ability to distinguish what the funtion of " all those strings " is , and has the ability to hear all those harmonis ,they will understand the uniqueness of this technique. It serves the style and bass/rhythmic funtion of the tune . I have to boldly state - nobody else plays with this technique (yet)
Everybody talks about Solo Bass on this site . How many of you do a four hour gig on solo bass performing for non-musicians? I do. Percussive harmonics makes my bass sound like a mallet instrument or a keyboard . It is the ultimate technique for solo bass.
Having seven or eight or nine strings is not "ego" anymore than having 88 keys as opposed to 76 keys on a keyboard is ego. Yeah ,I can make my 9 string sound like a four string-I do all the time on gigs reading big band charts. I can also play Scott Joplin's "Maple Leaf Rag" and have it sound pretty close to the piano performance.Is that ego ? Too many strings? No- I am liberated as a bass player ,having access to range and options that transcend a guitar range ,and have most of the piano and orchestra's range. If you can't hear that I arpeggiate a Cmaj. 13 (+) 11 chord in harmonics while playing a low c bass note ,it's your ears(as in ear training) not my playing.That is taking el. Bass to the outer limits .I've been doing what I have been doing most of my life ,so nothing anybody posts here in a negative way is going to change that. If you don't like what i do -it's great ,if you do -it's great.

I'd like to thank Steve Lawson-thanks for your input ,I loved your jam with Michael Manring -it was a real treat to listen to.You are both great players with great concepts.I appreciate you allowing me to address the posts here.

Roy-I don't remember you ,I remember the gig though.Marcus Miller is a very nice guy.Thanks for your support and interest.Email me.

I appreciate Roy's posting about not dragging this site down to a level of insults , jealousy etc. I think it is sad when I post valid information on some of the "threads" and members try to step all over it . It is unproductive. Thanks to Paul for having the insight to create a web site for Bass players. I realized , from this thread ,that the majority of bass players are not quite ready to add these colors to their "pallette" .

Great. Everyone's had their say. And now, I'm closing the thread. If there's any more to say, take it elsewhere.

thanks

Steve
www.steve-lawson.co.uk