I'm about to start taking double bass lessons. While talking to my teacher, he informed me that there are two types of bows. French and German. He said he used German. Is there in any difference once you learn to play, is any one better than the other for a beginner?

Yes, there are differences, and there are plenty of people ready to lecture you on why their choice is the "best". However, the true "best" is which one allows you to reach your full potential. That involves learning about both. In fact, Gary Karr requires his students to become familiar with both. Only then can you make your own decision as to which is best. I think it makes sense to start with whatever your teacher uses. There's tons to learn about the instrument and how to play it. If you're using the same bow, it will facilitate communication between you as you tackle each new concept.
Congratulations, and welcome to the club. Good luck!

please excuse my ignorance, but what are the differences between french and german bows?

Originally posted by john turner
please excuse my ignorance, but what are the differences between french and german bows?
Don Higdon :Yes there are differences, and there are plenty of people ready to lecture you on why their choice is the "best".

I'll try to keep this unbiased,Don (I play mostly French) The difference is in the way you hold it. The german grip is an underhand grip where your fingers are under the frog.
French grip is an overhand grip, much like a violin or a cello bow. Both have advantages and disadvatages. German is easier for most beginners because you don't put as much strain on the muscles in your hand that you need to develope for the overhand grip. I'm not saying that German is only for beginners, Gary Karr plays German (mostly), along with a long list of other famous players. French bow is also called the Bottesini bow,because he made it famous, while german is also called the Dragonetti bow for the same reason (although Dragonetti was also Italian.)I would recommend using the Bow that your teacher uses,and if you decide to switch later on, fine. The advantages and disadvantages as I see them are:

French: More Control over the sound and direction.Difficult for beginners to exude enough pressure for a good sound.

German: Greater power,Comfortable to play,Bow control a little tricky for beginners, because it seems to bounce and slide all over the string.
So those are the differences as I see them,it's a matter of taste as to which one is better.

It should also be mentioned that the two are constructed differently.

The french style resembles a violin or cello bow, with a small frog (the large piece of wood, usually ebony, that you hold and that holds the mechanism for adjusting hair tension) and narrow space between the stick and hair. You put your thumb into the opening at the frog and your fingers are at the top of the stick.

German style bows have a tall, large frog, which enables that grip by allowing room for the underhand grip and multiple fingers by greatly widening the space between the stick and hair.

one of the many unanswerible bass questions. all I can bring to mind is Gary Karr's ability to play unmiked with the orchestra. I play french, but I would like to know how to play german. I've got an old fiberglass german. I suppose I should learn one well before learning another well. my teacher plays french. I shure she's excelant at both, But I remember never likeing german. sorry, I just whining to myself.

I use a French grip on a German bow.

My teacher (actually a fellow student who has more experience) does the same.

I do that because I like the feel of a French grip but most French bows are too heavy.

I play both types of bows and "switch hit" depending on the music. (Playing a Strauss waltz is more interesting if it's bowed "Viennese Style" using a German bow.) I also somtimes use an overhand grip on my German bow if I don't have a French bow handy and find it works fine except for the missing mass (and resulting differences in balance points.) Over the years I've run across a couple of playes that use what they refer to as a "Russian" grip on a French bow. Anyone familiar with this? It doesn't show up in Simandl.

I mostly use a french bow because I find it more comfortable, more articulate and get a better tone with it. I also have a Butler Bow that I use for arco bass solos, a butler is kinda in between a French and German bow. I used to use both when playing in an orchestra, switching to the German when more volume was needed.

ive heard that if you can play a french bow, you could switch to a german bow..but if you play german it would be difficult to play french....is this true?

Since the grips are different, you use a different set of muscles to hold and control the different bows.But it is not impossible to learn both of them, you just have to practice both. What I'm saying is, you can't automatically play German just because you play French, and vice versa.
But once you learn both grips, it is fairly easy to switch off. A lot of great players do it all the time.

French. German puts my wrist at a funny ie. uncomfortable angle when I'm on the E string.

I use a French grip on a German bow.

My teacher (actually a fellow student who has more experience) does the same.

I do that because I like the feel of a French grip but most French bows are too heavy.



Why not just buy a light , 3/4 french bow?

I actually started out on French bow and switched to German, so don't have any qualms about one being better for beginners. I find that the German bow sounds better for ligatto playing but it's easier to play fast with the French.

. . .a butler is kinda in between a French and German bow. . .


Since someone else resurrected this thread, I'll comment. I have seen in several publications, websites, etc. the terms German bow and Butler bow used interchangeably.

Is there indeed a difference between the two? I have never seen a photo that compared the two. Nor have I seen any local shop offering distinct bows labeled as each.

Butler, Simandl and German are all names for the same type of bow. H.J. Butler was the original principal double bassist for the Boston Symphony Orchestra when it formed in 1881. He studied in Vienna and came from the same school of playing as Franz Simandl. Butler published his "Progressive Method for the Contra Bass" in 1881 and it was a popular method book at one time. It's out of print now, but you can view a copy of it on the Library of Congress web site. Like Simandl, Butler's name is associated with the German bow because he advocates it's use in his method book. A curious fact is that both Simandl and Butler describe the bow as being held with the pinky inside the frog whereas most modern German bow players keep their pinky on the bottom of the frog. Anyway, that's the long answer to your question. I hope you found it interesting :D .

- Steve

http://kaybass.home.att.net

is it wrong to play french style on a german bow?
i like the feel of the french, but the sound and ease of my german bow. I feel most comfortable when i play with a french style on my german bow.
my bow is a fairly decent and very light pernumbuco.

is it wrong to play french style on a german bow?

The short answer is "yes". The German bow was designed to be played with an underhand grip.

Funny how this thread is resurrected every four years.;)

- Steve

But, will a German bow fit in a Prius?

It also depends on your musical interests, age, etc. I use both and advocate learning both.
If you are primarily into arco getting the French grip down is a good start, if you are into jazz, the German grip tends to be a lot friendlier at first.

Without hesitation I would say the German is the best bow for primarily pizzicato players who want to practice some arco.

There have been a lot of fantastic players who have used both bows, so if you really want a solid overview of the bass learning both is a must.
French grip on a German bow works better than vice versa, I tend play mostly German and use some French grip when I need it.

I just wanted to throw in that this is one of the most constructive discussions of this topic I've ever seen.

I second the advice that a beginning player shouldn't try to learn a different bow from what his or her teacher uses. It might be worth spending a little time with both later on.

I'm a little confused by the notion that German bows are lighter than French bows. I think I'd have expected the opposite to be true, although I have no evidence.

My original teacher played German, and I switched from French to German when I started taking lessons from him. Later, in college, I studied with a French bow player. After having a lot of trouble with my string crossings and seeing the tiny movements he was able to make to do the same, I switched again, back to French. At this point, I can't imagine switching again, but I'm stuck in my ways now.

But, will a German bow fit in a Prius?

Bless you.

Deep respect and gratitude. :)

I think it is a little tough to give blanket advice without knowing more about the OP. If it is a young player trying to become a classical bassist you need to play the common bow for classical in your country and likely learn both. If you have prior experience with one the instruments from the violin family French will be easy.

Picking the same bow as your teacher is good logic, but I think a lot of jazz players who had negative experience with arco often had teachers who played French. I love the French bow - but you have to really WANT to play it. Someone with a mild interest in arco is not going to bother with getting the French gip down, and the pain that often accompanies the early period is going to be a put off.

I was lucky enough to really want to play arco and to start with French so I have a nice, loose, easy grip with no pain.

So, there are really too many variables for a solid recommendation with out more information.

I think it is a little tough to give blanket advice without knowing more about the OP.

Well, there's that, plus the original post was in April of 2000. Probably made his choice by now. :D

But I do agree that you do have to want to do the French bow. I started on it, so that's where I'm at... but I might be playing German if I was doing it over again.

Well, there's that, plus the original post was in April of 2000. Probably made his choice by now. :D

You can't rush these things you know.

- Steve

I play using the German bow, it's my bow of choice. I've played the French bow, but I don't like it as well. Our last Orchestra conductor is also a bassist, is now the principal bassist for St. Cloud MN Symphony, conducts a youth orchestra there and teaches bass studies at St. Cloud State College. One day when he was complimenting me on my bass playing and the quality of sound from my bass, I asked him if he'd like to play it and he told me he'd never played with a German bow, so he didn't want to try it.
I guess it never entered my head that someone with his experience had only used the one bow.
Of course, I only play with the French bow when I'm playing my violin or viola.......:D

I use both but I've been using German more lately.

Actually my first bow was [is, I still have it] a French-German bow: a French frog [boxwood] on a German stick :rollno:. It sounds ok but the balance is terrible and it is really heavy. I've thought about having a German frog put on the thing but I don't think it would be worth the cost.

Do any of you know if Oak rosin will fit into a Prius?

Do any of you know if Oak rosin will fit into a Prius?

You'll have to shred it first.

Do any of you know if Oak rosin will fit into a Prius?

Depends on it's age. Count the rings if you're not sure.