1/4 size DB

[Mary Ann]

Hi,

Last Thurs. night I took my 10 year old daughter to the 5th grade orchestra information meeting. She selected the DB as her instrument and was sized for a 1/4. Since then I have been trying to overcome my vertical learning curve on selecting a DB. This site is an overwhelming source of information. I've read through the newbie forum and at least I know some pitfalls to avoid now. I could still use some more info though.

Unfortunately, the shops that the school district recommends are out of 1/4 size DBs for rent. I can rent a "Chinese" (that's what they said when I asked what kind it was) 1/4 DB at another local shop for $75 per month. That's a lot of money to rent a cheapie DB when I can get a decent 1/4 for +/- $1500. Any input would be appreciated. We live in the northern 'burbs of Houston. Klein ISD if anyone is familiar with the area.

The local shop that sells Christophers is swamped and can't even give me a time estimate for when we could get one. Other possibilities are:

Sunrise NEWPORT ASD 1/4 Size Laminated Double Bass from Lemur $1349

50/4 - Strunal Bass from Southwest Strings $1256

Engelhardt EM3 Maestro Junior Bass $1000 Dunno where I can get this pre-set-up, Gollihur ships direct from the manufacturer with no set-up.

Franz Hoffman Shar Music $1100-1500

Of course these aren't comparing apples to apples since I haven't figured in shipping and other costs. Since the local shops are so back logged I would prefer to have it set-up before we get it. If I order one that hasn't been set-up there is no telling how long it would take to get it ready to play locally. Or how much it would cost for that matter. I'll make a couple more calls locally tomorrow to get that info.

I can also get a "Czech Wenzel Kohler top carved 1/4 size" delivered for $1100. I would have to get that set-up locally.

Any opinions? My daughter has been playing classical and electric guitar for over 3 years so she has a good track record with nice instruments. I don't mind getting her a decent DB but we are basically clueless. In a few years, if she sticks with it, it will be much easier to shop for a 1/2 size since we will be knowledgeable, she will have some skills to test drive instruments, and 1/2 size is a bit more available than 1/4. Right now we wouldn't know a bad DB from a good one. In the future I will also know not to expect customer service from violin shops in Sept!

This year we will have to lug the DB to elementary school 2 days a week. In middle school she will leave the DB at home for practice and use the school's DB at school. We live in hot, humid Houston if that is an issue for laminate vs. hybrid. I can't see paying the money for a 1/4 hybrid though. Plenty of time for that when she moves up to a 1/2. I assume we have to take the same precautions with the DB as we do with the classical guitar as far as not leaving it in the hot car.

I wouldn't mind driving to Austin, Dallas or San Antonio for an instrument to avoid shipping charges. Suggestions of local or internet shops would be appreciated.

Any ideas how long an average height girl will use a 1/4? I'm hoping for 5-8th grade and then move up to a 1/2 for high school but that's just a guess. I'm only 5'2" but my daughter will probably end up little taller than I am.

I guess it's too much to hope for that one of you nice people would have a good 1/4 DB for sale. It would get a nice home wth a bright young musician.

Thanks for your help,

Mary Ann
non-musical mom to a musical kid

[millertx]

I noticed this ad on craigslist for the dallas area, it is actually listed as McKinney which is probably around an hour northeast of Dallas. I don't know anything about this particular bass, you would have to contact the seller for more information and to see if it still available. $75/month for a 1/4 size bass seems pretty steep to me.

http://dallas.craigslist.org/msg/430398228.html

[Bass Barrister]

Hi Mary Ann,

My compliments to your daughter on choosing to study music and the DB.

1/4 basses can be hard to find and the common wisdom is that they are hard to sell when no longer needed. I'm not sure how true that is given the frequent posts I've seen here looking for these smaller basses, but I guess this should be mentioned.

My reccommednation is to contact Steve Loeb at http://www.bassesonline.com/

This is a guy who, for the last several years, has been clearling his late father's vast inventory of string instruments. The web-site URL above indicates that he has 1/4 and other smaller sized basses in stock. The basses he has are generally of very good beginner/intermediate quality. The only problem is that they come only with a basic set up and you must then have a luthier do the final set up work.

I just bought a 5/8ths sized bass from him, fully carved, for a very good price. My local luthier tells me that this is a very decent instrument that, with his tweaking, could have been sold for a lot more than I paid for it. Send Steve an e-mail with your exact requirements and he'll get back to you. He's very good to work with and, IMHO, a very honest and responsible seller.

Best of luck to you and your daughter.

[Bass Barrister]

Hi Mary Ann,

My compliments to your daughter on choosing to study music and the DB.

1/4 basses can be hard to find and the common wisdom is that they are hard to sell when no longer needed. I'm not sure how true that is given the frequent posts I've seen here looking for these smaller basses, but I guess this should be mentioned.

My reccommednation is to contact Steve Loeb at http://www.bassesonline.com/

This is a guy who, for the last several years, has been clearling his late father's vast inventory of string instruments. The web-site URL above indicates that he has 1/4 and other smaller sized basses in stock. The basses he has are generally of very good beginner/intermediate quality. The only problem is that they come only with a basic set up and you must then have a luthier do the final set up work.

I just bought a 5/8ths sized bass from him, fully carved, for a very good price. My local luthier tells me that this is a very decent instrument that, with his tweaking, could have been sold for a lot more than I paid for it. Send Steve an e-mail with your exact requirements and he'll get back to you. He's very good to work with and, IMHO, a very honest and responsible seller.

Also, FYI, Lemur and Southwest Strings have good reputations and can be dealt with confidently. If I were buying a violin, viola, or cello, I'd have not problems with Shar Music but I'm not sure they're the most fruitful place to look for a bass.

Best of luck to you and your daughter.

[DocBop]

Excuse my ignorance, but what is the difference between one of the small size basses and a cello? I understand cello is tuned different so a setup/string change would be needed. What is it I'm not seeing?

[Ben Rolston]

I know that the shape of "regular" sized DBes is small in the shoulders as compared to a cello. Some old basses have been cut down in the shoulders in order to make them more playable.

I am unaware whether smaller basses keep a bass shape or not....

[CPike]

Originally Posted by DocBop

Excuse my ignorance, but what is the difference between one of the small size basses and a cello? I understand cello is tuned different so a setup/string change would be needed. What is it I'm not seeing?

Even though the physical size of a 1/4 bass and a cello are similar to the eye, the important dimensions and measurements are very different. For ex. the string length of a 1/4 bass is somewhere around 34 in, while the full size cello is around 27 in - huge difference when it comes to learning the left hand position, finger spacing, shifting, etc. Another critical difference is the tension, diameter and spacing of the strings - how they feel under the hand. The cello is shaped differently and requires a different approach of relating the body to the instrument. A 1/4 bass will have heavier, thicker wood than a cello.

Basses are not big cellos!

Hope this helps to clarify.

Chris

[DocBop]

Originally Posted by CPike

Even though the physical size of a 1/4 bass and a cello are similar to the eye, the important dimensions and measurements are very different. For ex. the string length of a 1/4 bass is somewhere around 34 in, while the full size cello is around 27 in - huge difference when it comes to learning the left hand position, finger spacing, shifting, etc. Another critical difference is the tension, diameter and spacing of the strings - how they feel under the hand. The cello is shaped differently and requires a different approach of relating the body to the instrument. A 1/4 bass will have heavier, thicker wood than a cello.

Basses are not big cellos!

Hope this helps to clarify.

Chris

Great now I understand.

[Mary Ann]

Thanks Bass Barrister,

> 1/4 basses can be hard to find and the common wisdom is that they are hard to sell when no longer needed.

They seem to be a hot commodity right now. I don't think I'll have much trouble selling it. I've seen more ads wanting them than selling them.

>My reccommednation is to contact Steve Loeb at http://www.bassesonline.com/

We've been e-mailing back and forth. I can get a bass delivered to Houston for about $1200 for Czech Wenzel Kohler carved top or German Karl Hofner laminate. Any opinion on those? They are 20 years old but have never been used or set-up. Of the 3 violin shops that I know of in Houston, only 1 will set-up an instrument that they didn't sell. Argh. That shop will charge $300 - $400 for set-up. That brings the price up to maybe $1600 for an instrument that my kid will outgrow in a couple of years. A 1/4 at that price point might be harder to re-sell than one closer to 1k. I don't mind losing some money on the deal if my kid gets several years use out of it but our budget is limited.

This is very frustrating. I wish I could just rent the Christopher Concert from the shop that the school district recommends. The insurance covers accidental damage which would be good for lugging this thing to school twice a week with a free loaner for any repair time. If I buy an instrument I'm going to have to lug it into Houston if it needs any repairs and my kid is going to be without an instrument while it's in the shop. The rental DB could be traded in for a larger size and the fees would go toward purchasing an instrument. Too darn bad they have a waiting list of 20 people and they aren't even adding names to the list right now. One of you needs to come open a strings shop in Houston!

Any opinion on a Florea Lupeni Bass supposedly made in Romania? I can get one for $900. What about a Scherl and Roth R60E?

Yeesh. My daughter needs to move up from her 3/4 size electric guitar to a full size. That is sooooo much easier to shop for than a DB! Gotta love those Ibanez thin bodies for an almost 11 year old.

I think I'll buy all of Steve's small basses, have them set-up professionally, then sell them on www.fractionaldoublebasses.com! I'll be able to quit my day job.

Thanks for your help. It is greatly appreciated. It's difficult to be an educated consumer when buying something I don't have a clue about. This site is very helpful.

Mary Ann

[Matthew Tucker]

My daughter started DB at age 10 on a 1/2 size double bass. She was just average height. After 18 months she was playing on a 3/4 bass (standard size) without any difficulty. Now, aged 16, she is playing a large bass with 42" scale, without any problems. (She hasn't actually realised yet that her new bass is a longer scale than any of mine)

So what's this mean? Maybe look at a 1/2 size bass. Your child will grow out of a 1/4 really quickly.

[LouisF]

These are a littlle pricier, but anything from George Vance is absololutely first rate quality.

Louis

http://www.slavapub.net/Products-Instruments.html

[TWR]

My brother just bought a beat up 1/4 that I've fixed up (to the best of my ability) and been playing around town. If you're seriously committed to getting her a 1/4, I could talk to him about selling it to you. I've really enjoyed the mini-ness of it but should probably be playing a more suitable instrument.

He plays with me and seems to enjoy the presence of the little bass, but he's also a great guy and usually willing to take one for the team.

As for the bass, it sounds decent, plays really easy but is predictably weak in the lower register. There are a good deal of scuffs and a few dings, but the worst damage is where the last student to use it literally hacked at the strings/fingerboard with something. I finely sanded those to little more than an eyesore and not even that at a few feet away. In a handful of shows and numerous rehearsals, it's really been a hit, but that's not to say it's a great "quality" instrument.

Downsides would be shipping and strings. I just put really nice strings on it (flexocores = awesome!) and would need to recoup much of that, but you're still looking at less than what you were quoted for a year of rental.

Let me know if you're interested and I'll talk to him about price.


- Chris

[TWR]

Just found this in your area:

http://houston.craigslist.org/msg/401973218.html

If you can get the bass and convince the seller to sell the pickup separately (to someone else), it might become a good deal for you. "O.B.O" is always encouraging.

Good luck.