100 year old bavarian bass, thinking of buying, advice please

m. parker · #1 05-05-2009, 12:33 PM

I am currently doing a semester abroad at the Conservatorium van Amsterdam for jazz bass and I have been using the school's bass all semester. It sounds great, and is perfectly playable at the moment, but has lots of cracks and definitely could use repair and/or restoration for the long term. I have been thinking about upgrading from my Kolstein plywood (which actually sounds quite good) and asked my bass teacher, who said he could sell it for around 3 or 4 thousand euros (3000 euros= about 4100 dollars). I am seriously considering buying it, but I was hoping someone maybe had some advice if this is a really bad idea, or maybe you think its a great price and idea.

He said the bass is probably between 100 and 150 years old and made in Bavaria. He said he is not asking so much since the bass is really beat up and needs repair and that these kinds of basses were kind of mass manufactured and the craftsmanship is not particularly good. I would also have to pay for shipping back to NY (anyone have any idea how much this might cost?) and then the repairs. It is generally just cracked all over and has some seams open, but i play it every day and it plays well. I took a bunch of pics and dont know how to post them, but if anyone wants to see, i'd be happy to send them, just email me at mparker1@skidmore.edu.

Does anyone know anything about these basses? What are the potential consequences of repair/ restoration, might the bass sound better, the same, or worse? What do you think of the price? Any feedback is much appreciated, thanks.

anonymous02282011 · #2 05-05-2009, 12:36 PM

Click on the FAQ link to learn how to post photos. It's easy. I don't think it works with Flickr, but most other will be fine.

I'd be most concerned with sending it back to the US. I've never done that kind of thing before, but it would scare me.

bassist14 · #3 05-05-2009, 12:41 PM

i can´t say anything to the bass without pictures, but regarding shipping:
you could bring it to jan knooren, he offers complete bass-shipping service (at least last time i talked with him 2 years ago)

drurb · #4 05-05-2009, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m. parker

...really beat up and needs repair and that these kinds of basses were kind of mass manufactured and the craftsmanship is not particularly good.

No pictures, no bass. What makes this bass more desirable, or a better deal than one you could buy new/used after you're back in the US?

**Freddels** · #5 05-05-2009, 01:55 PM

You can get a free account at photobucket.com and upload your pics there. Then you just copy the IMG link and post it in a post here.

m. parker · #6 05-06-2009, 07:21 AM

Ok so i put up the pics on photobucket, hopefully this link works:

http://s714.photobucket.com/albums/w...albumview=grid

To answer a question, what makes this bass so desirable for me is that the sound is great and has the kind of tone i like, i like the look of it, and i think (although maybe you'll let me know if I'm wrong) that it would be more expensive to get a carved bass, especially one this old, in the states for the same price. I'm also a bit attached to it after playing it all semester haha.... thanks for the responses.

txstatebass · #7 05-06-2009, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m. parker

To answer a question, what makes this bass so desirable for me is that the sound is great and has the kind of tone i like, i like the look of it I'm also a bit attached to it after playing it all semester haha.... thanks for the responses.

I think you have a good answer right here! The endpin looks a little scary, and the crack under the FB on the top needs attention, but the bottom line is if you like the bass, you like the bass. Even though these were "mass produced" there is still no substitute for old wood mojo. I have a bass very much like this one, old Tyrolean mutt, beat to hell and needed work, and it KILLS!

my .02

Eric Hochberg · #8 05-06-2009, 11:05 AM

I'm no expert, but I have had an old bass restored... The bottom line is, will the repairs plus the purchase price make sense financially? From the pics I see a separation at the button and neck butt. Now the overstand of this bass looks low, so you might have the neck brought out and fix the separation at the same time. The top LB edges look pretty rough, too. And that ugly repair to the top... Tuners? Looks like a thick board, that's good.

You should have this bass looked over by a good luthier and get an idea of cost to put it into good shape. Then decide how much to pay for it. These repairs can run into the thousands...

The other concern, is bringing it back to the States, it will need to acclimate to our dry heating season and you could run into more problems with new cracks, etc.

Keep in mind, there are old basses in poor shape in the States for this price, lower and higher, too, and you would have to do the same analysis on them.

A lot to think about. If you really love it, it may all be worth it, but, I would keep looking, too, for something in better shape right off the bat, that you dig.

Jason Sypher · #9 05-06-2009, 02:35 PM

Take the bass to Harry Jansen in the Eastern part of Amsterdam. He will be able to tell you how much the repairs would cost and probably what kind of bass it is. It looks blockless but there is no way to tell until you get in there and take a look. The price is right if the repairs don't run more than 3,000 euros. You could also take it to Lucas Suringar if you have transportation. He is out towards Almere.

http://www.harryjansenluthier.com/
http://www.wfdb.nl/

Paul Warburton · #10 05-06-2009, 07:51 PM

I Don't like saying this because of your dream. Busting up someone's dream isn't my idea of a good time.
I love what you said about "the look of it". These old basses are wonderful to look at.
But....this bass needs SO much work done, (by a good bass luthier, probably up into the many thousands of dollars, as Eric said.) that you would be better served by investing in another, more healthy instrument. Even if you had the money, time and patience, the total amount of work needed will, more than likely, change the sound, feel, and character of it. It may end up disappointing you, in no way due to the work of a good luthier. That's just my opinion from looking at the ouside. I'm not a luthier, but a look at the inside might really be nasty.
I do agree that it's a fun old bass to look at, and the thought of how it would look and sound after a few months in the shop has to be very tempting for you.

MR PC · #11 05-06-2009, 08:54 PM

Looks like it's had some work done in the not so distant past, judging from the thickness of the fingerboard, and the possibly non original tuners.

I'd just take it to a luthier and get a reality check on the work and cost involved. Then I'd take that back to your teacher, and see how he feels about it.

These old basses are worth restoring, if you think that the sound and feel works for you. You could shop for years, and not find one that speaks to you like this one.

For myself, the best instruments have always come my way when I wasn't looking. Something I wished I'd known, after much time and $$ spent. Good luck!

MIKMAN · #12 05-07-2009, 05:19 AM

Here is my 1 cent. In my journeys i found many times basses like this one, some in better shape some in worse. In most cases the repair cost, plus the transportation cost gave me a figure which made the purchase not worthy. In your case a rough estimate gives me a repair cost of at least 2.000 euros and a transportaion cost of 600 euros (Europe to the States, air cargo). Adding the 3.000 or 4.000 euros the total cost is going to be at least 6.000 euros ($8.000). Dear friend with this amount you can have superb choices in the States, perfect double basses, whatever your style, genre, etc. If i were in your shoes i'd never bought it, period.

m. parker · #13 05-07-2009, 05:29 AM

Hey Guys, thanks for the responses. I'm going to bring the bass to the bass to a luthier who actually has a shop right around the corner from where I'm staying, I think its Harry Jansen as you mentioned Jason, and see what he has to say about it. I'll also check out Lucas Suringar's shop because I've heard really great things and I'll see what else I could get for a comparable price. He is actually the luthier who did the recent restoration and raised the fingerboard from what I understand. I'm still undecided, but thanks for the input.

As far as restoration changing the sound... if all the cracks are just sealed up and the bass is made a bit more sturdy, should I expect this to have a significant effect on the sound, and if so what? Thanks.... I'm leaving to do some traveling for a bit, but more comments are welcome and i'll check them out later.

Paul Warburton · #14 05-07-2009, 06:50 AM

Somethng to ask your luthier.
Take a look at your shot of the lower bout (the end-pin shot).
You can see a distinct line going along the upper edge of the lower rib. That looks to me where a repair person added some wood onto the rib edge to accommodate a shrinking or malformed top plate. It does concern. As does Jason's remark about it being a possible "blockless wonder". Some great basses out there that were neck blockless, but never the less a possible issue.
Good luck, and let us know.

MR PC · #15 05-07-2009, 11:39 AM

There aren't to many basses of this vintage that don't have cracks and repairs. I like them that way.

Jake deVilliers · #16 05-07-2009, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MR PC

There aren't to many basses of this vintage that don't have cracks and repairs. I like them that way.

Me too - I love an 'experienced' instrument!