1995 Engelhardt C1 Info

FoamieOmie · #1 08-12-2009, 03:59 PM

Hello!

I am in the process of possibly purchasing a 1995 Engelhardt C1 upright and was wondering if anyone knew where I could find any info on the specs. I have a serial number and checked it out but all I could find was a list that gave the years they were made. It's in near mint condition and I'm seriously considering going to look at it but it's about 3.5-4 hours away so I'll probably need to commit before driving. If anyone has info on these I would greatly apreciate it!

Thanks!

Gearhead43 · #2 08-12-2009, 05:55 PM

What exactly do you want to know?

You're not going to find many Engelhardt fans here on this forum, for many reasons, real or imagined. This is a very modern-jazz & classical music biased forum, and Engels tend to be more popular with Bluegrass, Country, Rockabilly and other Roots music players.

I have the same bass, same year and all, and regularly gig and record with mine and it has been perfect for me and my style of music. Mine sounds great and plays beautifully, since having the bass setup (by me).

These basses can be had for very cheap, and can last you practically forever. They are overbuilt, very sturdy, and amplify especially well. The flipside is that they have a muted (thumpy) tone compared to some other lighter built basses, come with cheap bridges, and have thin (Kay style) necks that bother some people.

If you can get a good deal on it (well under $1000, I paid $600 used) and aren't expecting it to get you into the New York Philharmonic , I say go for it.

FoamieOmie · #3 08-12-2009, 06:15 PM

Thanks for the reply! This will be my first upright and will be used primarily for Bluegrass and New Acoustic Music. Jazz will come as that's some of the music I play on drums. I'm still relatively new to bass but have already had some gigs here with more on the way. This bass seems like a good starting point and yes, I can get it for under $1000. It will be better than the AEB I'm using and I won't have to use the Pignose to be heard! Now to just adjust and learn to play it!

I'm just wondering about the quality of the parts/wood/laminate and how well it is constructed as I won't be in a great position to inspect it (except pics) until I drive there. For the dough it seems like a good deal and is definately better than the Chinese ebay stuff. Any more experience or info on this bass would be really helpful!

DrBassie · #4 08-13-2009, 09:02 AM

This was my first double bass. Like everyone says, they have thin necks and are sturdy. They do record well.

As far as parts and wood quality, you do get what you pay for. This is probably not a problem for you since you're buying from another player, but these basses will NEED to be set up when you get them. They come in unplayable condition!

FoamieOmie · #5 08-13-2009, 10:57 AM

Stay tuned..... I just finalized going to get a 1953 Kay in GREAT condition at a LOW price ($750!!) and it's only an hour away. Will post pics when I get it. Thanks for the replies so far. Now I have questions about 50's Kays!!

cajunInExile · #6 08-13-2009, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoamieOmie

Stay tuned..... I just finalized going to get a 1953 Kay in GREAT condition at a LOW price ($750!!) and it's only an hour away. Will post pics when I get it. Thanks for the replies so far. Now I have questions about 50's Kays!!

Good luck, but I would NOT have posted that on here before I had that thing locked behind closed doors. Where was it you said you lived?

Gearhead43 · #7 08-13-2009, 02:30 PM

Haha, hope nobody snipes it before you get your hands on it!

FoamieOmie · #8 08-15-2009, 12:32 AM

Well, I'm not really sure what happened. The seller of the Kay send 2 emails. One I suppose went to all of the people not getting the bass but I was sent it by mistake (we had a deal for me to come check it out and buy it) and then a second email immediately after saying explaining that they decided to keep it. Whatever, bummer.

So I got the Englehardt ($700 + gas for a 3.5 hour round trip), and it looks great! In really good shape. Here are my questions. It has been sitting around as decoration for the past 10 years. It sounds ok but the A string seems really dull and just doesn't sing like and is not as bright as the G and D, especially around the top of the neck (C# or so down to Bb). It seems really dead there but I'm pretty sure it's the whole string or how it's set up and not the fret board as it looks fine and it sounds dull when played open. The E string is a little better but still much deader/duller than the G and D. One note is that he replaced the D string a long time ago and included a G, D and E string but I think they're cheap ("Super-Sensitive" string co.) Also, what about the saddles on the bridge? Would those have anything to do with it? Am I just not playing the A and E strings hard enough? I'm going to get an adjustable bridge soon so that may help but for now I'd like to figure out the dull A and E strings. Overall I think it was a great deal for $700, it just needs a little tune up. I plan on using it primarily for bluegrass/new acoustic music/jazz (later) so I know the string decision will come and everyone likes something different! Thanks in advance for any more help for this newbie! I plan on hanging around as the bass has taken hold!

gbaker · #9 08-16-2009, 10:12 PM

FO,
Congratulations on your new bass. Regarding the EC-1, it will do fine for bgrass and other non-orchestral stuff. I have one, also bought used, and I had about the same problem you describe. My D was way stronger than the A.

First, your profile is not complete but if you played BG don't expect the same low end boost- try to get used to it. Also the DB lows are louder than they sound while playing it. I had a couple friends play mine on stage (no pickup) while I went out and just listened. It sounded fine.

Good pictures but still not like being there. Looks like the strings are high - good for clear sound but hard to play with left hand. At the nut the clearance should allow a business card (or two) to just slide under - very important for playability.

There is a lot of info on typical string height at the wide end on the forum - search. Your bridge is Engle cheap - a slab cut and it looks undressed - thick at the top. Replace it with a better 1/4 sawed one w/ adjusters eventually.

The above are general and do not address your A-string problem. Try loosening the strings one at a time and removing those things between the string and the bridge, maybe someone knows what they do but I don't. No help? Then try replacing the A string, it may be just dead. In fact a full new set is in order. Opinions abound as you said. I play only piz. After trying Spirocore lights, I went to Spirocore mediums (S42) to get more low end. Most new strings will be twangy for a couple weeks but will settle down with playing.

I ended up bumping my sound post down (toward the tailpiece) eventually to about 3/4" below the edge of the bridge foot - seemed to help most with the lows.

Contains opinions, your results may vary.

FoamieOmie · #10 08-18-2009, 10:53 PM

Thanks for the reply and apologies for the late response. I removed the saddles (I think that's what they're called) and I seemed to be able to get more tone out of the A and E but the strings still just sound dead and lifeless. I hoping this is due to the fact that they've been strung on this bass for 14 years and were cheap to begin with. So I ordered some Helicore Pizzicato for the A and E (will get the others when I get more dough - spent it all on the bass and the wife was gracious enough to let that happen!). Hopefully that will get it playable enough to figure it out more and until I can afford a good setup. So I realize a new bridge is in order. What do you all recommend for an adjustable. I see them on ebay but not sure what's good or not. Also, how important is the end pin to the sound? Should I think about getting a new one? It's a standard Engel I think. Thanks for all of he help so far!

Todd

gbaker · #11 08-19-2009, 08:05 PM

The end pin is OK unless it rattles. If so saw it off to match the length you need or replace the steel rod with wood. Make sure the endpin wire is in the saddle grooves (the wood inlay at the edge of the top).

To address weak low end try these in order (all the below have been covered in TalkBass - search in "Setup"):

1. Inspect the bass bar to make sure it is not coming loose from the top or splitting - inspection mirror and light required.
2. Check the position of the sound post. Should be south of the bridge foot edge 1/2" to 3/4" and in - line with it vertically. Not angled or tipped on edge.
3. Make sure the bridge is well in contact with the top. Check with thin paper - try to insert all around the foot.
4. Lower the strings at the nut. Jeweler's files. This is more important than you might think as a high nut can cause a tenancy to buzz.
5. Replace the dead strings. Play awhile and let it settle down. Hopefully it will.

THEN:
6. Replace the end pin wire with 5/32" cable.
7. Replace the bridge. Add alum. adjusters to a new fixed bridge after the bridge is fitted to the top.

Do your research. What you decide to undertake depends on your experience with instrument building or repair and woodworking skills and tools. Good luck.

FoamieOmie · #12 08-19-2009, 11:24 PM

That's some valuable info, thanks alot! I'm expecting the A and E Helicores tomorrow and will string them up and play it some this weekend. I'm playing a festival (one set on my AEB and 2 on drums) and will be around a few upright BG and jazz players at the campfire and will get their first hand feel of it and see what they think. I'm gonna look into all of these suggestions and get this thing rockin.

The sound post looks to be in the right spot. I'll check the bass bar. The bridge seems secure and I can fit a business card at the nut easily but with no play. I'm not exactly sure of the string heigth but it seemed a little high and is now a little lower after removing those metal pieces and letting the strings rest in the slots on the bridge.

Oh yeah, is a #2 pencil good enough for lubricating the slots on the bridge or does it have to be #6? Thanks!

Todd

Gearhead43 · #13 08-19-2009, 11:50 PM

The #2 pencil will work fine. I wouldn't worry about the bass bar, that bass isn't that old. If the bass doesn't have any weird buzzes, just play the thing for a while.

When you get some money saved up, take her in for a good setup by a good bass luthier.