1st full set on upright

[Ken Lloyd]

Three months ago I bought my first UB, an Upton Hawkes with pickup. (I'm delighted with the bass, by the way).

I've taken it out three times now with last night being the first night I played a full set on it. Jazz trio: sax, piano, me. During first set I played my Godin A5 fretless so all of my sound was behind me from the amp. (AI Clarus with Acme B1 cab).

On second set, when the band volume and balance had already been established before we started the set, I couldn't hear myself on UB much. It was disconcerting. I remember the posts that say don't worry, the people can hear you because your sound is in front of you so I tried not to overcompensate by pulling too hard.

But it was sometimes tough to play in tune. Also, I don't think I was able to lay down the pulse as strongly.

I'll guess I'll get used to not having a big sound behind me.
How do you guys handle this?

Here's my bass at a gig in April where I played only two tunes on UB; that night we did have a drummer.
http://www.kennylloyd.com/Images/CJ_..._5_cropped.JPG

[gomez hacienda]

You said you bought the Upton with a p/u? But you don't use it? Almost every UB player I've seen in recent memory, uses some kind of re-enforcement on stage. My Ampeg BA115 is for my UB & EUB. Why not use your amp the same way? As long as your happy with the sound...

all the best,
gomez

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

I sat in with a big band a couple of months ago. Their player let me use his Kay (beautiful old blond S-9) and Ampeg portabass amp. I couldn't hear myself at all, but because of the EQ being darkish, I could feel the pulse, but not the pitch. I did pull hard on the strings and didn't like the blisters!
The experience rekindled my desire to learn upright, so I bought one along with a shadow pickup the following week. I sat in for a two hour set with a Piano and Sax last Thursday at a local club and ran through the PA with a speaker just behind me.
To finally answer your question, I EQ'd for a good clean sound with enough brightness to be heard but still hold the volume down. People said I sounded good, I could hear myself as well as the other players. It is true, a bass will sound different out in front of it than right on top of it, but there is no reason that I know of for playing an instrument that I can't hear.

[Scott McC]

I can really relate to not be able to hear yourself. I am a new comer to the upright as well, and have had similar problems. I think it is a matter of having the right pickup/amp combination for your bass, I myself have not found it What pickup do you have on the Upton? I have an underwood on a Strunal hybrid, and do not recommend that pickup.

[Ken Lloyd]

Thanks for your info guys.


The pickup is the Upton Revolution solo.

And to respond to "click": I wasn't clear in my post. Yes I did use the pickup and my Clarus/Acme rig but I still couldn't hear myself.

To expand a little....
I saw Eddie Gomez with Chick Corea at the Blue Note in New York a couple of weeks ago. Since my position in the club was not near the front of the stage, the sound I heard was from the house system. He had a fabulous amplified sound, warm and rich and balanced over the entire neck. I guess that's the kind of sound I need from my pickup/amp.

[Scott McC]

I think Gomez uses a realist, although I am not 100%. Sounds like a killing show, doesnt get much better than those two. On a different note, is the Hawkes as acoustically loud as I have read? I am really thinking about picking one up, and would appreciate your take on the bass.

[5stringDNA]

I've got a show next month that has half the set on upright, other half electric, and I've got a revolution solo as well.. I'm curious to see how things will turn out as I have only performed unamplified in a small auditorium with a piano and acoustic guitar.

[Clay_Bass]

check out david gages realist pickup. Theyre available on his website davdgage.com i think it is. Ive never liked going through an amp untill I played this pickup. I still prefer to mic the bass though especially on more straightahead stuff. Even through gages pickup you get a real amplified sound which is great for some stuff and not so great for other stuff.

[Ken Lloyd]

When I visited Upton to try their models a few months before I actually bought one, I thought the Hawkes had both the biggest sound, and the type of sound that I had in mind for my playing.

In the three months I"ve had it, it has gone through two noticeable changes/mellowings in sound: the first after about 10 days, and the second after about 10 weeks. It gets better and better: a warmer, richer sound somehow. One of the local 1st call players/teachers told me he was very impressed with my bass. I'm sure happy with it. More than anything, it's very playable.

Still, with all that said, for volume I can only relate my experience with what I played at Upton. Maybe others can help here.

Originally Posted by Scott McC

I think Gomez uses a realist, although I am not 100%. Sounds like a killing show, doesnt get much better than those two. On a different note, is the Hawkes as acoustically loud as I have read? I am really thinking about picking one up, and would appreciate your take on the bass.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Ken Lloyd

Three months ago I bought my first UB, an Upton Hawkes with pickup. (I'm delighted with the bass, by the way).

I've taken it out three times now with last night being the first night I played a full set on it. Jazz trio: sax, piano, me. During first set I played my Godin A5 fretless so all of my sound was behind me from the amp. (AI Clarus with Acme B1 cab).

On second set, when the band volume and balance had already been established before we started the set, I couldn't hear myself on UB much. It was disconcerting. I remember the posts that say don't worry, the people can hear you because your sound is in front of you so I tried not to overcompensate by pulling too hard.

But it was sometimes tough to play in tune. Also, I don't think I was able to lay down the pulse as strongly.

I'll guess I'll get used to not having a big sound behind me.
How do you guys handle this?

Here's my bass at a gig in April where I played only two tunes on UB; that night we did have a drummer.
http://www.kennylloyd.com/Images/CJ_..._5_cropped.JPG

I mean to be neither critical nor a smarta**. You mention that you are having difficulty hearing the bass when amplified. I couldn't help but notice in the pic how high up on the fingerboard your right hand was. Were you, in that instance, wanting a very soft sound or is that your normal playing position? If the latter, then you will get a much fuller sound by routinely playing closer to the end of the FB.

[Sam Sherry]

Originally Posted by Ken Lloyd

I've taken it out three times now with last night being the first night I played a full set on it.

Congrats! Bear in mind The Universal Rule of Thumb: "The first two hundred are the toughest."

Originally Posted by Ken

On second set, when the band volume and balance had already been established before we started the set, I couldn't hear myself on UB much. . . . it was sometimes tough to play in tune. Also, I don't think I was able to lay down the pulse as strongly.

I'll guess I'll get used to not having a big sound behind me.
How do you guys handle this?

My two cents: Put your amp up on a chair. Point it toward you. Turn it up. Turn it down. Tell the guys to play softer. Tell the house to stop playing the radio and TV during your set. Tell the brunette to stop shouting. If you can't hear, do what it takes to make it right.

You should be hearing The Voice of The Bass from your bass, and given the high-quality gear you pack it should be coming from your amp too. It'll get easier, Ken.

[Ken Lloyd]

Thanks for your input; I value all assistance.
And yes I normally try to play much lower on the FB but do sometimes catch myself inching too far north, then adjust.

Originally Posted by DRURB

I mean to be neither critical nor a smarta**. You mention that you are having difficulty hearing the bass when amplified. I couldn't help but notice in the pic how high up on the fingerboard your right hand was. Were you, in that instance, wanting a very soft sound or is that your normal playing position? If the latter, then you will get a much fuller sound by routinely playing closer to the end of the FB.

[Ken Lloyd]

Originally Posted by Sam Sherry

Congrats! Bear in mind The Universal Rule of Thumb: "The first two hundred are the toughest."

... It'll get easier, Ken.

Hey Sam.
Tell us about your CD release gig last week. Sorry I couldn't get there, but I'm sure you guys did a fabulous gig.

[Ed Fuqua]

You prolly know what I'm going to say already, but here goes.

Upright is not like electric. If you want to get a louder, fuller sound out of the electric bass, you turn around and twiddle som eknobs on the amp. On an upright, you're amplified sound is just an amplified version of the sound you get out of the bass itself. And if that sound is small, unfocused and thin; you just get a LOUD small, unfocused and thin sound.

Believe me, I know what you're going through. When I started playing DB (after playing electric for a number of years), I thought I needed different strings, different amps, different speakers, different bass, pedals, equalizers etc etc etc. in order to get a focused, projecting sound that was still full and warm. The thing that's gotten me to the point that I can get a big warm projecting sound out of the bass is working with my teacher on physical approach. It's not about playing harder, it's about playing smarter. If you don't currently have an upright teacher with a good physical approach, try to chase down a good classical teacher.

Cause that's what Eddie Gomez has going on - not a different amp or pickup or mic or speaker or cable or sound guy or whatever. He gets the sound you are hearing out of the bass itself.

[Scott McC]

When you're right you're right. But I do think there is something to be said for, "You are only as strong as your weakest link". Which in my case, is quite possibly me Thanks to Mr. Lloyd for the info on the Hawkes!