5 string with a high C Q

[tony moore]

I keep finding myself in situations where I have to play higher register arco supporting parts that I can't pull off in higher positions. This has left me considering a 5 string with a high C. My budget is $5000 or less. I searched thru old posts and found some references to Christopher 7/8 Hybrid 5 strings and Kay "Chubby Jackson" model 5 strings. I currently play an old Kay that was modified with a solid top at some point and like it for what I do, and have found a couple old Chubby Jackson models available, but none would have a solid top. I've also found a used 2004 Christopher 7/8 Hybrid. This morning, I found a reference that Shen offers their Willow as a 7/8 5 string. Unfortunately, none of these basses are local to me and all are in very different locales. I'm willing to make a trip, but can't make 3. I'm hoping someone with experience with any of these can offer some input? So, the basses I'm considering are:

- Christopher Hybrid 7/8 5 string
- Shen Willow 7/8 5 string
- Kay "Chubby Jackson" 5 string (assume these are 3/4)

I play both pizz and arco in a variety of styles. I play live both amplified and acoustic and record a fair bit as well. I'm not a virtuoso and consider myself more of a support player, but can pull of complex passages with practice. I play an old modified hybrid Kay that's in decent shape, and don't have experience with basses costing more than $5000, so I don't think my expectations are terribly high.

Thanks!

Tony

[Big B.]

I just recently (this weekend) switched my five string from a low B to a high C string. (temporarily) Having the high string makes playing high amazingly easier. Not only are the notes easier to reach but the C string is a dream to bow. Some people find it difficult to adjust to the strings being closer together but once you are used to it you actually use less energy to do the same amount of work. I am not personally familiar with those basses but for 5,000 I would stay away from the Kay and go for a carved instrument. I have nothing against Kay but a for arco playing a carved bass is just superior.

Many five string basses used to be 4 string basses so perhaps you should look into the possibility of having your bass converted. The high C string is very thin and takes up much less space than a B string. Its not out of the question that your bass could be converted at a reasonable cost by a good luthier.

[coldtrain]

I have a 1945 Kay S-51 strung with Evah Weichs and a Corelli 370M (I think) for a high C. The fingerboard/bridge radius is greater than most 4's I believe so bowing in general is a bit trickier since the strings are *more* level.

Also, playing the most of the length of the bow on the high C string is very difficult or impossible in thumb position as there is not enough clearance with the body...but I think this is more due to how the bridge was cut.

Just some things to think about when trying out a new 5-string.

Fabio.

[Big B.]

Thats a good point about the radius of the fingerboard arch being smaller. You will take some time to get used to the closer spacing. You will find very few 5 string basses that have the same arch as a four string bass. The only one I know of are the big Pollman five strings but those are mainly for orchestral use where big sounds have to be pulled from the bass. In the OP's case, the smaller bow motion used will translate into more efficient technique with practice.

[Eric Hochberg]

Andy Anderson of the Lyric Opera of Chicago had a 5 string Chistopher for sale, may still be. He plays 5 string in the orchestra and may be able to make a recommendation to you, also regarding setup, as his is very specific. Don't have contact info but you can probably find him through the orchestra.

His 5 string Pollmann plays like butter...BTW.

[ole Jason]

Originally Posted by tony moore

I keep finding myself in situations where I have to play higher register arco supporting parts that I can't pull off in higher positions.

I don't mean to move this thread out of the realm of basses and into the realm of technique but what seems to be the problem? If it's just an issue of intonation it seems an odd choice to buy a whole new bass instead of just working out the tuning problem. If you're playing classical you'll need to be able to play all the way up the G regardless of whether or not you have a high C anyway. I don't mean to discourage you in getting another bass, just curious.

[Big B.]

It's about ease of use for me. I can play the same passage as anyone else but with less effort and with less chance of missing a note or being out of tune. Having a C string is almost unfair when it comes to classical lit. For ex. many of the passages in the B minor concerto by Bottesini can only be played effectively with harmonics. With the high string many of these passages can be completely fingered and eliminates the intonation and phrasing problems of harmonics. The C string also has an effortless soloistic quality to the sound that most G strings lack.
That being said I generally tune my five with a low B string. I get payed to play bass and not to solo. For performances that require solos or a lot of upper register work I will use the high string.

[tony moore]

thanks for the thoughts!

i had considered that it may have tighter string spacing and thought i could work thru that, as suggested. but i hadn't considering the problem of bow angle and the top. thanks!

i wasn't referring to a problem with intonation, tho' i'm sure i could and should have! i was referring to not being able to reach the notes needed in standard tuning. your suggestion of retuning is a great one! but i'm not smart or good enough, or have enough time, to get my head around that.

thanks,

tony

[hensonbass]

I have a Christopher Hybrid 7/8 5 string with high 'c' and have enjoyed it very much. I use it for many types of music - Classical, jazz, rock, bluegrass, folk, ect. I have tried many pickups with it and they all seem to bring out a nice and even tone. Right now I'm combining a Eurlund and Underwood pickup with a Headway Pre. I also have a Biesele magnetic pickup for the rock stuff.

Anyway it plays really easy and it has a warm tone and is very even through the registers. I've also toured on the road with it and it seems really durable too. For a bass under $3000 I think it's a good deal.

Here's a clip of me playing it with my band: http://www.vimeo.com/15238614
Keep in mind that the bass was a little soft on the board mix because I was pretty loud off the stage.

[tony moore]

great video!

i liked the 'sugar sugar' too :-)

what strings are you using?

thanks!

[hensonbass]

Thanks.

Spirocore Mediums with a Flexicore high 'c' is all I've tried with this bass.

I'm sure there are some other options but I find these strings to have the most durability, sustain, and will work with a magnetic pickup too. They make bowing a challenge but it sounds nice when you get it right.

[hensonbass]

Originally Posted by Big B.

It's about ease of use for me. I can play the same passage as anyone else but with less effort and with less chance of missing a note or being out of tune. The C string also has an effortless soloistic quality to the sound that most G strings lack.

I've had fun going back through some of the Bach Cello suites with my 5 now. I just played through the G major Prelude from the 1st Suite. I also tried transposing it down a fifth to C and you feel like a cello player because it just plays across the strings with an open chordal quality.

[Big B.]

I also use spirocore mediums and had good luck with the spirocore C string. Have you tried both? I would be interested to know any difference.

[Big B.]

Originally Posted by hensonbass

I've had fun going back through some of the Bach Cello suites with my 5 now. I just played through the G major Prelude from the 1st Suite. I also tried transposing it down a fifth to C and you feel like a cello player because it just plays across the strings with an open chordal quality.

I had a similar experience last night playing through the 2nd grand duet for 2 basses by Bottesini. It lays so well on the fifth string that it really does feel like cheating.

[hensonbass]

I tried a Spirocore high 'c' and found it to be too 'zingy' sounding. The Flexicore seems to match up with the Spiro 'g' more evenly.

I'm amplifying this bass most of the time so I have to be careful to make sure it sounds even in all ranges. Do you have a pickup for your bass or are you playing acoustically?

[Big B.]

They take a while to lose that edge for sure. To me the string feels a little small. I think a larger string would match the other strings more effectively. If there was a C string spirocore stark I would try it. I like to use a larger C string on my 6 string electric basses as well, it just has a fuller sound.

Thanks for the advice on the flexocores, now I want to try one.

[Big B.]

I do play a lot of jazz but generally not with the C string. I love my B string for the jazz gigs I do. I have not had to amplify the c string yet but will be soon. Are there certain problems you encounter with it?

[hensonbass]

No problems with my setup. You're going to have fun when it comes time to take a solo. I agree that the Spiro 'c' I tried was really thin. I think the Flex 'c' has more mass to it, although I might be wrong.

[JtheJazzMan]

Pirastro flat chromsteel high C is another great one. Its very bright like spiros but isnt as twangy as the spirocore high C.

[hensonbass]

For those of you who are interested in the arco quality of the 5 string bass here's a video that demonstrates how nice it is to have that extended range without having to play so far into thumb position.

http://www.vimeo.com/17119610