Advice on buying a cheap DB

[PoorPlayer]

Originally Posted by bilco

Watch your local Craigslist.org listings every day.

+1

[Dubbin]

For what its worth department: I have a Cremona SB-2 and I like it. I'm a beginner and a big part of the purchase was a gift so local purchase was pretty much a necessity. I certainly wasn't going to tell my wife to try to find out how to buy a used Kay or something. My 2nd cousin is a bassist in his late 70's who plays jazz and has been playing for about 50 years. He checked it out before my wife bought it and liked it. I'm playing with a group of local fiddlers and there are a few other basses. The more experienced player there checked out my bass and seemed to like it. Last week a new guy showed up with a cheap internet bass and he seemed to be having a good time with it. Anyway, I'm having a good time and learning and I doubt that I'd be having much more fun or learning any more if I spent double what I paid.

I've been reading this page for about 6 weeks and I've noticed a great deal of loathing about cheap basses. I am pretty skeptical about the folks who post dire warnings about no resale and expensive firewood, etc. I think I read one post where sombody referred to them as "forbidden." I suspect that the quality has improved greatly over the last few years and the same old "read them until your tired posts" might not be as accurate as they once may have been. Let's suppose you buy a cheap bass and find that you can only sell it for $400 if you decide to sell it. So you lost a couple hundred bucks. If you go out and buy a carved bass it sounds to me like you might pay a lot more than that in repairs if you want to drag it around town a bit.

If you have a $500 budget then buy something in that price range with the understanding that a good chunk of that value might go away . . . most of us will live through that. It is what it is.

Best, Ed

[Michael Case]

Dubbin,

Your point is well taken, but I think you need to see where many of us are coming from too. Most people who posted against these instruments have had experience with them and know them to be sub par. Now if you had a bad experience with a product would you turn around and recommend that product to someone seeking your advice? I would hope not. I have read articles about the improvements made in Chinese instrument building, and yes the basses now are probably much better now then even five years ago, but many of us wouldn't really know because we've moved on.

This is how I feel personally,
Mike

[Marcus Johnson]

Guitars, f'rinstance..... I've played some pretty amazing bargain basement chinese guitars, with famous names on the headstock, in the last couple of years. Maybe the DBs are following that pattern? It has been awhile since I've played any really low end double basses.

[Dubbin]

In fairness to the folks that are very negative about CCB's, I don't have a whole lot of experience with them and have a single data point (my bass). Maybe I'll feel differently in a year or so. I think the point is if somebody says they only can spend $500 I don't know if the best advice is don't because the alternative is probably nothing at all. A higher quality $1200 bass is obviously better but it may not be an option. I'm having a ball with my CCB. Ed

[WalterBush]

I love my CCB, but in response to OP, I wouldn't buy one without playing/seeing it first. A few hundred bucks to a luthier (Alex Friedman, a name some TBers are familiar with) and the bass played well and sounded pretty good, too. With the $300 cost of the instrument, I'm still well below the price of the cheapest Christopher, Upton, etc and I'm not worried about scratching the finish, 'cause it already sucks, and was flaking off from day one.

Having said that, I A) bought it at a NAMM show from a company that supplies basses to Cremona, Palatino, and others. B) Made sure it had real ebony hardware C) played the snot out of it to make sure it was the best in the bunch and D) have gotten darn lucky it hasn't decided to delaminate over the years.

I couldn't have taken those steps to insure I was getting at least a playable instrument over eBay. CCB's can be a great deal, but don't ever, EVER, buy one sight unseen.

[Michael Case]

Honestly, I believe there are alternatives. For instance one could save a few hundred more and get a good bass from a website/company I've mentioned on this thread. There are reputable online sellers that sell quality instruments in the price range you're talking about. Believe me, nobody knows better the problem of having a limited budget and wanting a DB. I bought a Sam Ash CCB for my first instrument, then turned around and sold it for half what I paid after 3 months. The bass wasn't very good as is, but Sam Ash sold me an instrument that had fallen and broke at the neck heel and peg box. I didn't notice the damage cause of the thick brown paint used to cover the work. It was after I fished out THE REPAIR SLIP they forgot to remove that informed me of the damage/work done. This was from a major dealer of musical instruments, what do you think some person on ebay is gonna be like. I didn't know about Talk Bass then and wish I did. IMHO if you're gonna buy an instrument (especially a DB) you should find a seller who KNOWS what they are selling and will be as honest as possible with you.

[Damon Rondeau]

Oy. It sure seems like snobbery. I know it did to me at one point (my old posts suggesting snobbery are still in the system here somewhere.) But it's not.

Here's the deal on the really cheap basses -- they will break down on you. The neck will come off. The top plate will peel off. It won't happen the day after you buy it, it probably won't happen in the first year after you bought it. But it won't last five years without a serious breakdown.

People here aren't telling you "dude, you'll be seen with a cheap bass and sound bad and it will all be so UNCOOL." They are saying to you "we have been there and done that and it's going to cost you more than you think." It's a piece of advice that's straight-up about value for money.

In a world where folks are paying more than a thousand bucks for Stratocasters, $1800 for a play-it-forever Kay doesn't sound like such a bad deal. Have you got a car? Have you got a computer? Have you got a stereo, big TV? All of them cost as much as or more than a sensible Kay bass. Finance one, lease one, rent-to-own one...

The only way the CCB strategy makes sense to me is if you treat them as disposable.

[Bethelbass1]

I bought an ebay bass in my early bass years. To add to the $500 price I added and another:
$100 shipping (prices are relative since it was a while ago)
$120 for working strings since the ones that came with it broke the second day
$5 for a new wire to hold the tail piece to the bottom (there's a technical name for that but I can't remember it)
$200 setup (this happened over the course of a few months but it still hurt)
$150 for a decent bow

the final verdict: I bought an ebay bass for $1075 (and that's a low estimate) I grew to where I needed a better bass in 2 years and began looking for the next step up from there.

You can buy those basses but it will still cost you about $1000 in the end and you will improve to the point that you need a better bass in a few years. My advice: if you really don't have the money think about finding a decent rent to own program. many use horrible instruments but some (like quinn violins in my area) rent out decent instruments and the money for rent goes towards the purchase.

[Silversorcerer]

Originally Posted by mike da mook

Honestly, I believe there are alternatives. For instance one could save a few hundred more and get a good bass from a website/company I've mentioned on this thread. There are reputable online sellers that sell quality instruments in the price range you're talking about. Believe me, nobody knows better the problem of having a limited budget and wanting a DB. I bought a Sam Ash CCB for my first instrument, then turned around and sold it for half what I paid after 3 months. The bass wasn't very good as is, but Sam Ash sold me an instrument that had fallen and broke at the neck heel and peg box. I didn't notice the damage cause of the thick brown paint used to cover the work. It was after I fished out THE REPAIR SLIP they forgot to remove that informed me of the damage/work done. This was from a major dealer of musical instruments, what do you think some person on ebay is gonna be like. I didn't know about Talk Bass then and wish I did. IMHO if you're gonna buy an instrument (especially a DB) you should find a seller who KNOWS what they are selling and will be as honest as possible with you.

Exactly what I'm trying to get at. Let's say you need transportation. If you don't have the money to buy a serviceable running vehicle, you probably don't have the money to repair it or tow it either. Take the bus / subway now and save the difference for a better car. Why would one think it is different with a double bass? Sometimes "none" is a better alternative to anything out there. None doesn't have to last forever. I think the instant gratification factor is getting overlooked here. Nothing worth having ever comes immediately and without commitment. It is when you don't have much cash that you should seriously avoid throwing it away. And we are not saying that if you can't spend the $$$ for a decent instrument give up the idea, we are saying discipline your resources and wait for a better opportunity. For two years I played a seriously compromised instrument that a "friend" bought for me while I was out of town (not with my permission, mind you, I knew better). Eventually he "guilted" me into giving him the $250 he got conned out of on it and I tried to learn to play it, with instruction. The first thing it needed was $100 set of strings. I never spent the necessary cash to accomplish the repairs that would be required to make it playable because that would have cost more than what I spent on a decent bass. Two years and a serious case of tendinitis later I had saved the $2500 that bought me my current Kremona Bulgaria. Did I learn something out of that? Besides what everyone is saying here, I learned that "friends" aren't always doing you a favor when they think they are. I had a physical problem and some really bad habits from trying to cope with that instrument. And I'm still out the $250 plus any real advantage that money could have bought me at the time as well as the money for replacing the strings, not to mention the loss of all the time I spent trying to learn on a "loser" bass. So when you waste money, you lose twice really, plus compounded continuously. First you lose it when you spend it. Then over time you lose the cummulative benefit it would have bought if you had "invested" it instead of "spending" it.

A better example: I bought my first EBG from $$ I made working at a grocery store paying $1.60/hr. I wouldn't settle for a Univox or any (1970's) cheap bass guitar that couldn't be tuned. Asian made electric instruments then were the equivalent of today's BSO's. I made a habit of searching the local pawn shops for several months and playing lots of instruments so I could recognize a good deal. Finally I bought a Fender P for $200. In my hourly wages that was a small fortune. But I still have that bass and it was a great investment. It never set me back as a player, it paid for itself before I graduated high school, and is now a pricey vintage Fender. Don't spend your hard earned money! Wait until you have enough to invest it.

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

I bought a nicely set-up Christopher ply from KC Strings for $850. It came strung with Helicore Orchestra strings and with a nice padded bag and German bow. Over the next few months I fitted a used Underwood pickup to it and replaced the strings with Spirocores.

When I upgraded to a better bass I sold it to a newbie for $1000.

[Rocky]

Cheap ain't good and good ain't cheap.

[Dubbin]

Originally Posted by clink

I bought a nicely set-up Christopher ply from KC Strings for $850. It came strung with Helicore Orchestra strings and with a nice padded bag and German bow. Over the next few months I fitted a used Underwood pickup to it and replaced the strings with Spirocores.

When I upgraded to a better bass I sold it to a newbie for $1000.

I think these are $1900 now. I wouldn't be too shocked if most of these basses were made in the same factories in China. I can tell you that this is the case with all sorts of retail goods. Ed

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

I'll leave it to those who know a lot more than I whether or not they are made in the same factories. I do see similarities between the Christopher and Shen basses, although I've read that the Shen's are made better; solid linings rather than ply for example.

Based on my good experience, I would recommend a Chrissy highly. The guy that bought mine got a great bass for the money.

[Silversorcerer]

Originally Posted by clink

I'll leave it to those who know a lot more than I whether or not they are made in the same factories. I do see similarities between the Christopher and Shen basses, although I've read that the Shen's are made better; solid linings rather than ply for example.

Based on my good experience, I would recommend a Chrissy highly. The guy that bought mine got a great bass for the money.

+1, I don't think these are consistently the best made of economy priced basses, but definitely one of the most consistently good sounding and made well enough usually. I've seen the plys (rockabilly guy was slapping that thing silly and sounded kick), the hybrids (7/8 5-string with tone to die for), and a fully carved 3/4 flatback, all of them sounded good and dimension wise they are extremely well planned.

[SBassman]

No shooting, please.

When someone is looking for a low end, *safe* entry level DB, wouldn't the Palatino EUB be a possible safe entry point?

I don't have one, and I have never even played one in person, but ... aren't those basses Very unlikely to implode?

Maybe that's a better answer for someone trying to enter the DB world. Yeah, I know it's not a real DB, but maybe it is an inexpensive way to start logging some DB time.

?

[Michael Case]

The physical differences between an acoustic double bass and an electric upright bass are huge, plus the tone isn't at all the same. If one started with an electric DB and went to a real DB it would still be like starting over again.

[SBassman]

Ok, so here's a low end design that probably won't implode:



Do I dare ask if any TBer ever actually saw and played one?

[Silversorcerer]

Looks like it could use a good meal.