Am I just too weak to play a DB?

[Oded Ben-Ami]

Hi all,

I am not a bass player. I am a composer and a pianist, but I've been having this bug about the bass for a long time and I want to do something about it.

I went today to "play" a DB for the first time. By "play", I mean to say that I held the instrument, tried holding down the various strings at different places on the fingerboard and pluck the string. Then also use a bow.

I tried two basses - Shen 150 and Shen 180. Both had an adjustable bridge that was set at the lowest position. The strings were D'Addario Helicore medium.
The sales person was not a DB player.

It felt really taxing to hold down the strings with my left hands, particularly the E and A.
It felt as though, (1) the action was too high (even-though the bridge was set at its lowest settings), and that the tension in the strings was too great (particularly on the E and A).

Since I know very little about DBs, and I now wonder whether I can even play one (without injuring myself, that is).

Could my fingers just be too weak to play a DB?
Is it an issue of a mismatch between player and bass or strings?
Is it just about doing it a million times?

Please advise.

[Bofee]

A bass that has never been set up properly can be more difficult to play, there's more to it then just adjusting the bridge height. But yes, you have to play a lot, then play some more.

[Paul Warburton]

Doing it a " million times " is close.
The DB is obviously a very physical instrument. If you're highly motivated, that will help. You, in time, will start blistering up your fingertips that will eventually turn into callouses. The muscles in your fingers, hands and arms will respond by building new ones. This can be frustrating in the begining. I've never met a lady or man who was just too weak to step up.
After a great career in jazz, and at the age of 66, i'm starting back at page one after a long lay-off. I HAVE the motivation and I hope you do too.

[tornadobass]

First, avoid a shop that has a non-bassist salesman. They probably have non-bassist basses, too.

Second, get lessons to learn how to use your hands correctly.

Success with the string bass is not a matter of brute strength but a combination of a decently setup instrument with good body mechanics.

You know, kids in elementary school can play bass...you're probably stronger than that

[Martin Sheridan]

It's the set up.

It might be "right", but if it's too hard for you that can be fixed.
I'm a luthier and a player. I don't play as much and as often as I used to so I've set my strings down rediculously low and it's like playing through butter. In fact, lately I've been playing a lot and I think I'm going to have to raise the strings.

Playability does have a lot to do with knowing how to hold the bass, play the positions and build up some strength, but it shouldn't be so hard that you don't want to. Even as a beginner it shouldn't be impossible. If you are looking at basses in real bass shops they can adjust the nut, bridge and fingerboard curve so that you can start out without injuring yourself, or making it such as disagreeable experience that you don't want to make the effort.

[conte2music]

Originally Posted by tornadobass

First, avoid a shop that has a non-bassist salesman. They probably have non-bassist basses, too.

Hahaha....very funny! Good advice.

[tornadobass]

Originally Posted by Martin Sheridan

I don't play as much and as often as I used to so I've set my strings down rediculously low and it's like playing through butter.

What qualifies for "ridiculously low"?

[anonymous02282011]

Re: Am I just too weak to play a DB?

It certainly sounds that way. (No pun intended.) Your fingers are too weak to keep the strings down. Welcome to the double-bass.

It's a matter of a few weeks practice to start stopping the strings. Remember to listen to your teacher (or your body) so that you don't hurt yourself.

[StyleOverShow]

I might suggest you start with a fretless electric bass guitar. It will give you the sense of playing the DB without the struggle of its size. Strings tension and heights can be adjusted to a very easy level and you could, with a little effort find your way around the fret board.

I have played electric bass for 40+ years and now find myself drawn away from it to the DB. I have an Electronic Upright Bass, EUB, that I'm working with more and more every day (at the expense of my EBs). I find that I don't have the endurance, read strength, to play for extended periods on the EUB and I apparently strained some ligaments/tendons in my left elbow during the first few days and it has been tender for over a month now. Nothing like that ever happend, except for blisters on fingers and thumbs playing EB.

Playing bass, whatever the instrument, is a remarkable experience.

[Marc Piane]

Originally Posted by StyleOverShow

I might suggest you start with a fretless electric bass guitar. It will give you the sense of playing the DB without the struggle of its size. Strings tension and heights can be adjusted to a very easy level and you could, with a little effort find your way around the fret board.

With all due respect.

No. Bad idea. They are different instruments and one does not approximate the other.

If you want to play DB there is only one way.

And prepare for the puss and blood.

[Paul Warburton]

O yez, O yez Swami

[Kevin Hsieh]

Originally Posted by StyleOverShow

I might suggest you start with a fretless electric bass guitar. It will give you the sense of playing the DB without the struggle of its size. Strings tension and heights can be adjusted to a very easy level and you could, with a little effort find your way around the fret board.

I have played electric bass for 40+ years and now find myself drawn away from it to the DB. I have an Electronic Upright Bass, EUB, that I'm working with more and more every day (at the expense of my EBs). I find that I don't have the endurance, read strength, to play for extended periods on the EUB and I apparently strained some ligaments/tendons in my left elbow during the first few days and it has been tender for over a month now. Nothing like that ever happend, except for blisters on fingers and thumbs playing EB.

Playing bass, whatever the instrument, is a remarkable experience.

-1

go back to the side of the forum where it's sunny!

[Marcus Johnson]

Originally Posted by fingers

And prepare for the puss

Watch yer spelling there, compadre. On the other hand, I'm always prepared for.... oh, never mind.

Paul, I'm glad that you've reiterated how strong the pull of the sound of the DB is to those of us lucky enough to do it. The physical side is real, and yet it somehow disappears when you've found that voice. I sometimes feel the effects of playing a good, hard, four hour workout... but never while it's happening, only afterwards. And I'm always ready for more the next day. DB's the best drug on the planet.

PS... StyleOverShow...nope. Oranges and apples.

[jsbarber]

Playability in 1/2 position, 1st position, etc. is affected a lot by the height of the string at the nut. The height of the bridge will not improve this all that much. Also, as you rightly point out, string selection can have an affect as well. As was mentioned before, find a shop that has some DB specialization if you can. Try to locate a good teacher and they can help you select a good bass and make sure the setup is done properly.

Jim

[Martin Sheridan]

Originally Posted by tornadobass

What qualifies for "ridiculously low"?

I'd say that my strings are as much as half normal height. In inches, probably an 1/8 inch for the G and a little more for the E. I can't really get the pull I'm used to at that height, but it sure is easy on the left hand.
I was away from the bass (back in the US) for two months and just got back to sunny Mexico, so my hands are weak (oh, oh that word again) from not playing. I played six hours yesterday and except for some beginning blisters on my right hand fingers, my left hand is fine.

Normal height in inches for jazz playing would be about 4/16th for the G and six/16 to 7/16 for the E. A sixteenth more for classical playing.

I have been in shops and music stores where the strings are much higher than that, or even when they are at proper height for classical playing sometimes the scoop in the board is too great and the nut is a little high. Those elements together can permanently damage the hands.

So our questioner is probably not "weak". He just needs a more playable set up to begin with. Once the hands start getting stronger you can raise the strings a little. I've got a gut feeling the problem could be not only that he's not played acoustic bass before but also that the string height at the nut and bridge is too high and that the scoop also may be too much. And not having seen the bass in question, I might be completly wrong. But I've been helping bass players for over thirty years and I couldn't count the number of times I've seen bad set ups even from some places that should know better.

I feel strongly that the instrument should be made as easy to play for the beginner as possible. You've got enough to do without having to play with a lot of discomfort.

[bejoyous]

Maybe you're just generally out of shape. Swimming is a great universal body toner. Try walking as well.

Also, you will be using different muscles in your hands, arms and back than piano playing. My wife can whack the crap out of our piano playing Prokofiev, plus carry our 65lb daughter around no problem. But she can't hold C on the A string down and I have super easy action on my bass.

[B.C.]

Originally Posted by waylow

Hi all,

I am not a bass player. I am a composer and a pianist, but I've been having this bug about the bass for a long time and I want to do something about it.

I went today to "play" a DB for the first time. By "play", I mean to say that I held the instrument, tried holding down the various strings at different places on the fingerboard and pluck the string. Then also use a bow.

I tried two basses - Shen 150 and Shen 180. Both had an adjustable bridge that was set at the lowest position. The strings were D'Addario Helicore medium.
The sales person was not a DB player.

It felt really taxing to hold down the strings with my left hands, particularly the E and A.
It felt as though, (1) the action was too high (even-though the bridge was set at its lowest settings), and that the tension in the strings was too great (particularly on the E and A).

Since I know very little about DBs, and I now wonder whether I can even play one (without injuring myself, that is).

Could my fingers just be too weak to play a DB?
Is it an issue of a mismatch between player and bass or strings?
Is it just about doing it a million times?

Please advise.

First of all, anyone can play.

Second, DB is VERY physical. It takes a lot of work(soreness) to find how to use your body to its full potential here. The trick is to have a qualified teacher show you how not to use force to play the instrument, but let the weight of your hand do the work for you.

In short, a matter of practice

[Matthew Tucker]

Originally Posted by Martin Sheridan

Normal height in inches for jazz playing would be about 4/16th for the G and six/16 to 7/16 for the E. A sixteenth more for classical playing.

can you do that in cubits as well?

[abaguer]

Anyone can play. I've got a 10 year old student playing.

It's not easy at first and takes a while to build up strength but you can definitely do it.

Don't get a fretless and think it will help. The double bass is what it is, a different instrument and you should approach it as such.

[labravajazz]

Like Paul W says, a good will to play is all important.
I teach some 12-13 year old girls to play at High School and they really want to play the bass which is a real dog with very high action and the school won't fix it. they are already playing plenty of scales and exercises, reading simple orchestral string parts and just learning and playing The Elephant with a strong sound, really. When they get to play a well set up instrument it is like child's play to them, literally! And they never complain of being too weak.....