Another John Juzek question...

[mrbob111]

I am trying to find out any possible information on a John Juzek 3/4 bass that was given to me by my father. I know he purchased the bass ~1960 and at the time he was told it was already an old bass?? He also stated that the Juzek label on the inside had 1917 hand written on it and was told that was the production date??? Unfortunately, a repair left a stain mark covering the part of the label he said had this number on.?

From my internet searches, I know Juzek never made basses and that they are mostly Wilfer's with a few exceptions. I thought the 1917 is a model number and not a date , but I see other post with dates as well. About 15-20 years ago he was offered $5K for it. I am not looking to sell it and It has been through a lot of wear and tear over the last 50 years. My father played this in a couple bands as well as a blue grass group and it has been repaired several times that I know of.

I hope to find some chronological information about the piece in question. I do not expect any type of authentication, but maybe what era the bass may have come from (wilfer or not) Did any of these actually get here prior to 1920? I hear debates that wilfers did not come here that early. Maybe if MetMusic dated the labels or what other hand writting may have been added.

From the tuning head, brasswork and lack of the typical inlays on the back, it does not look like most of the Wilfers I had found online. I have found the same brass head plates, but not the wooden "buttons" on the tuners. I have found information about fakes and photocpoied labels. ect. but trying to research the brand information more than anything.


Anyway, if there is a way to give me information about the instrument as well as a local luthier in the Orlando area that can evaluate it for performance and possible reconditioning, I would very much appreciate it.

Thank you for any help you can provide.

Bob

Link to pictures.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/4843218...7624776060310/

[drurb]

Others should be able to give you more specific information than I can, but Czechoslovakia (which appears on the label) didn't exist as a state until 1918. This suggests that you are correct in your surmise that the "1917" is not the date of manufacture.

[mrbob111]

Originally Posted by drurb

Others should be able to give you more specific information than I can, but Czechoslovakia (which appears on the label) didn't exist as a state until 1918.

Good point, and again this was my father's recollection and can not be verified as the label is pretty well destroyed.

Maybe it could have been 1947 and he saw the 1917???

[tomshepp]

Your best bet may be to take the bass to a respected luthier for an "in hand" inspection.

[Eric Hochberg]

If you want general Juzek info, go to smithbassforums.com and the metropolitan music web site (Juzek family business).

[mrbob111]

Originally Posted by Eric Hochberg

If you want general Juzek info, go to smithbassforums.com and the metropolitan music web site (Juzek family business).

I have been to both sites extensively prior to posting this.

1. KSB loves to point out that there is no such thing as a "Juzek" bass and really seems to discredit the bass in general. Sorry if that offends Ken, but just my impression from everything I have read. I do respect his opinion and I have registered on his site to post this same question, as he seems to be well versed in the product, but have not gotten a response or approval yet?

The fact stands that John Juzek never made a bass, but as they were imported and taged/labeled by the Juzek family, then they are "Juzek" basses. A Toyota made in Detroit is still a Toyota. Is it as good as one made in Japan? probably not, but you call them both Toyotas.

2. MetMusic seems to want to steer clear of any type of appraisals and information on thier own products and wants me to use the yellow pages for information????

I have collected other antiques and various collectables and there is usually a site or forum of members that are well versed on dating or providing information on specific products.

If I am researching a wine, print or various collectables, there are specialized sites with photos, descriptions and known fraud samples out in the market.

If it does not exist, it would be nice for someone with knowledge and experience to have a site that documents and collects relevant model variations and chornological photos of as many basses as possible. I understand this would be a lot of work, but I am sure many others would chip in time and possibly financial help to create this type of database.

Granted, my bass could be a fake and that could only be determined by visual inspections from qualified individuals at a potentially high price, but it would be great to have an idea of what I may have.

Again, I do not have any intention of selling, just became very interested in it bassed on my father's stories (no pun intended).

[mrbob111]

Originally Posted by tomshepp

Your best bet may be to take the bass to a respected luthier for an "in hand" inspection.

This would be nice to know. Is there a respected known luthier in the Orlando/Cent Florida area?

I can find them in the phone book, but do not have a clue as to who to choose. That is why I looked online for these types of Forums.

[Eric Hochberg]

Originally Posted by mrbob111

1. KSB loves to point out that there is no such thing as a "Juzek" bass and really seems to discredit the bass in general. Sorry if that offends Ken, but just my impression from everything I have read. I have registered on his site to post this same question, as he seems to be well versed in the product, but have not gotten a response or approval yet?

As you point out, there is no such thing as a Jan Juzek handmade bass. I never got the impression that Ken discredited basses imported by Juzek, As he points out, if most were brought in to sell to school systems for student musicians, it makes sense that those were not high-end instruments. They are more valuable today as jazz basses rather than orchestra basses in terms of having the sound that each music requires, IMO. I don't think you'll find too many in use in major orchestras, but there are many pro jazz bassists that use them.

A fake Juzek? One of my basses has a Juzek label, but the bass doesn't look like other Juzeks I've seen. There could be many explanations as to how and why it got in there. Interestingly, the bass discussed in this thread

*PRICE DROP* fully carved 'Johan Rauner' / Wilfer from 1960's in great shape

looks much like my "Juzek". Wilfer made and sold to another importer.

[mrbob111]

Originally Posted by Eric Hochberg

A fake Juzek? One of my basses has a Juzek label, but the bass doesn't look like other Juzeks I've seen. There could be many explanations as to how and why it got in there. Interestingly, the bass discussed in this thread looks much like my "Juzek". Wilfer made and sold to another importer.

*PRICE DROP* fully carved 'Johan Rauner' / Wilfer from 1960's in great shape

I looked at this and there are some similarities, but I believe mine is a flat back and where the body connects to the neck there is a nice dark mohagany trim. There is also an inlay all the way around the back skin.

It could definately have been labeled after the fact as it seems all were labeled in the US real and fake labels are know to exist and I found out it was purchaced in Washington, DC in 1960 (Used). I did not take a pic of the store label, but may try to see if they are in existence any more.

I was also trying to find information to directly contact Wilfer, but have not had much success.

I posted more photos on the flicker page.

Thanks again for all the input.

Bob

[Eric Hochberg]

www.wilfer.de

[CellarDweller]

That is a good bunch of pictures. Bass ID questions are pretty common on this board, and it is always hard to provide anything very definitive without actually having the instrument in hand. Sometimes, even then, it can be pretty difficult. For most of us, who made our bass may never be known, and is of secondary importance to how it sounds, how it is set up, and what kind of shape it is in. The same bass can be almost unplayable or a real cupcake, depending on how a luthier adjusts the bridge, fingerboard, strings, tailpiece, bass bar and soundpost. My own plywood Epiphone went from clunker to jazz cupcake in one visit to Nick Lloyd in Cincinnati. My other bass, strung for classical use with a bow instead of jazz, shares some characteristics with yours, but is not exactly like it. As near as we can tell, it is a carved bass from Southern Germany or Czeckoslovakia, made around the 1880's. If you are really interested, an journey to New York or Cincinnati to have some top luthiers look at it may be in order. Most of the time, this is not an expensive process. Good luck!

[TroyK]

I'm not an expert in these basses, but I've done a good bit of research on my bass, which has a Karl Hofner label in it, but what I determined is that there were a number of factories making Honfer/Juzak/Wilfer, etc basses and the luthiers/factory workers moved pretty freely between them. These factories existed on both sides of the river that divided what we consider Germany and Czech and I believe that the labels/brands were used a bit interchangeably on at least some of these instruments.

That said, unlike the Jack-o-lope, Juzak basses do exist and are valued by non-classical players. They are very popular, as has been mentioned by jazz bassists. It would not be hard for you to sell, but I would hate to see you do it. I'm sure your pop loved that bass and there are some stories with it. I don't know if you play or there is someone else to hand it down to, but a family instrument like that is worth it's weight in gold.

Not to comment on Mr. Smith's position, which I don't know, but collectors and admirers of fine, hand build orchestral instruments would not be attentive to a great player's Juzak. It's just a different thing.

I'm surprised no one here knows more about them, I thought they were better documented. Hang in there, someone will know.

[billyfalconer]

Originally Posted by mrbob111

I have been to both sites extensively prior to posting this.

1. KSB loves to point out that there is no such thing as a "Juzek" bass and really seems to discredit the bass in general. Sorry if that offends Ken, but just my impression from everything I have read.
...
I have collected other antiques and various collectables and there is usually a site or forum of members that are well versed on dating or providing information on specific products.

If I am researching a wine, print or various collectables, there are specialized sites with photos, descriptions and known fraud samples out in the market.

Ken doesn't really dislike or have a need to insult Juzeks and other factory basses. It's just that his perspective is that of a Ferrari collector looking at Chevies.

And, that's also why I don't think you should be at all concerned about someone faking the Juzek label, etc. That would be as likely as someone faking an old Chevy's registration. Why bother? And, I'm not insulting Juzeks when I write that. I own two, and am not at all ashamed of either of them. But, I also don't have any illusions that they're worth over six figures, which some of Ken's basses are.

[mrbob111]

Instead of replying to each, I just wanted to say how much I appreciate all the input. And look forward to all that comes my way.

E.H. - Thanks for the Wilfer site. I cant believe I couldnt find it with Google?? Just need to work on my german.

As far as selling or playing, I have played it a bit a long time ago when my father was in a bluegrass group. And I am sort of a musical hack with the piano, guitar, and various brass instruments. I do not think I would sell it anytime soon, but who knows in another 10-20 years??? It plays beautifully with very rich deep tones and I did try some bowing with it, but it is definately set up more for jazz/BG...

Thanks again to all...

[Don Higdon]

I've heard Juzek basses that were superb.
And I've played a Gagliano that was ho-hum.

[Will Yager]

The more I learn about Juzeks, the more I feel like the label means squat.