Another New Guy! An Old New Guy!!

[Sammy Camden]

Hi Guys! I'm new to Upright Bass playing. In fact, I haven't even had my first lesson yet.

A little background. I've been playing electric bass since 1962. I've been playing guitar since 1959. And, I've been playing clarinet and sax since 1956. I played around with an upright for about six months back in high school (a long, long time ago, in a far away ........) that was owned by my best friend's father. He told me I was a "natural". He had played bass for Spike Jones for a year or so after WWII. I really did like the bass, but I bought an electric because I fell in love with the Ventures music.

Anyway, after all of these years and thinking about it way more than once, I finally decided, why not! I went down to my local music shop yesterday with my Son to get him a new set of hi-hat cymbals (yes, he's a drummer) and while I was there I asked about URB lessons. It appears that they have a teacher who is supposed to be quite good ($18.50 for a 30 minute lesson).

So I asked about a bass. They said they could rent me a student bass for $50/month and would apply $37.50 towards its purchase should I decide to buy it. I asked about buying a different bass should I decide I really didn't care for the one I had. They said no problem as long as I was moving up. They would credit the amount that I had on the books toward the purchase of a better bass. I don't know what brand, etc., I'm getting, and even if I did it wouldn't mean much to me.

Now, at the age of almost 62, I'm not really interested in starting a program that would lead to employment with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra. I simply would like to be able to find my way around on the URB to enable me to decently play Bluegrass, Country, Rock-a-Billy, Oldies Rock, and maybe a little classic jazz. I would like to get to the same skill level I've attained with the electric bass without a 20 year program; shoot, don't know if I've got a good 20 years left!

What kind of advice would you URB knowledgeable people give to an "old geezer" beginner like myself? What should I discuss with my new teacher, without turning him off or coming across like I'm some kinda' uncooperative jerk. I really would like to have this little sojourn come off successfully. What about practice regimine? Do I really need to learn how to use a bow; if so, that's cool?

Just any general help, pointers, and guidelines would sure be appreciated. Thanks!

[Scott McC]

I am not really the guy to be handing out advice, but I would like to say congrats, you are in for a lot of fun. Also, I do recomend the bow. At first it sounds like you are whooping a kitten with a belt, but it really speeds up the intontation. Considering how long you have already been playing music, you probably have the really hard stuff out the way. Enjoy!

[godoze]

welcome ! do not be afraid to ask questions and please do not get offended by some of the, uh, more opinionated folks down here... plus our humor takes some getting used . Sounds like hell but it really is a cool hang...

[rick123]

Welcome Sammy
Our musical history (and age) are very similar. I jumped into upright bass 3+ years ago and have been enjoying it immensely. I bought my current Christopher laminated bass from Brent Norton and feel very good about my choice. I play in a bluegrass-style band and we're quite busy out here in the west, particularly with the regional summer festivals. Good luck to you and have fun.

[Jazzin']

Cool, I'm in your situation too, except I'm 18 years old and I've been playing electric bass guitar since the year 2000. And I also just got my upright today.


And my 1962 Fender Precision was not stolen.

[Jim Carr]

My 2 cents:

Yes, learn with a bow, but play scales and arpeggios with your fingers,
too. Find a teacher who does jazz and classical, and who supports your goals.

Do short bursts of practice several times a day at first, until you are
strong. Go hear lots of other players and sit close, watch and ask.

Good intonation takes a lot of work, but is it ever worth it!
Good luck and don't let anyone discourage you.

[fish slapper]

Well, I'm not quite as "experienced" as you but I'm 46 and having played the slab since 14 I took up the DB last year. Welcome to the deep end of the pool!

You definately want to tackle the bow even if you aren't going to use it in your performance. It'll help with intonation and left hand positioning. Your family will suffer at first. I think someone here described it best as sounding like "flogging a cow with a gut wound" but hopefully that will be only for the first couple months.

Its great you are getting a teacher. Its almost like taking up a completely different instrument.

Good luck and have fun!

[Frank Louis]

Go for it Sammy ! ! ! !

I was an electric player too for 40 years before switching over . . I added my own position dots on the side of the neck, this helped tremendously with the transition.
But my best advise is to play it hard and often, and you will get the hang of it in no time !

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by fish slapper

Well, I'm not quite as "experienced" as you but I'm 46 and having played the slab since 14 I took up the DB last year. Welcome to the deep end of the pool!

You definately want to tackle the bow even if you aren't going to use it in your performance. It'll help with intonation and left hand positioning. Your family will suffer at first. I think someone here described it best as sounding like "flogging a cow with a gut wound" but hopefully that will be only for the first couple months.

Its great you are getting a teacher. Its almost like taking up a completely different instrument.

Good luck and have fun!

Wow - your history sounds uncannily like mine - But I'm being skeptical about the bow, after reading a few of Chris Fitzgerald's posts! Oh and I'm very lazy!!

[fish slapper]

"I added my own position dots on the side of the neck,..."

I've done this too with "temporary" stickers. My teacher was fine with a few markers. As he says, "its fine to have a few reference points but don't mark every position". I have 2nd, 4th,6th and a tiny pencil mark at the octave. The goal is to wean myself off of them. I took them off a couple months ago as I was embarrassed to have them at an audition, but my intonation was so bad, I didn't get the gig. So back on they went.

Maybe its time to try with them off again.

[Sammy Camden]

Gee Guys! Thanks for all the encouragement. I just picked up my "Chinese" rental bass today. It's a Palatino, I think. Don't really care 'cause if I do stick with this, I'll get something else anyway. It's simply a starting point. I feel like a little kid who just walked into a candy store. Don't know why I'm so excited, but it's a good feeling. My first lesson is this Saturday morning.

This thing has steel flatwounds on all four strings. Is that a common thing with URBs? I'm ignorant when it comes to these things, but ignorance is curable. And I'm doing all I can to "egikate" myself!!

I really had to laugh at the "flogging a cow with gut wound" comment. Reminds of every new instrument that I've taken up over the years. Man, at first the "noise" is terrible. But, eventually the music comes.

Wish me luck for this Saturday. I'll keep you posted.

[44me]

Sammy, you’ve encouraged me to post. I’ve been meaning to for the last few weeks to introduce myself to the other side. I just started on DB about a month ago (4th lesson is tomorrow), after playing electric since high school (70’s). I’ve been lurking around here the last few months, learning all that I could before making the commitment to DB. Thanks to all of you that have posted such useful information and advise in the newbie section – lots of great stuff!

I ended up buying a Hawkes Hybrid from Upton Bass. They were a great shop to work with. Upton’s a little over 2 hours away, so I drove down and met with Jack, who was very helpful. Under many TBr’s advise, I lined up a symphony player to take lessons from before I had my bass – didn’t want to start any bad habits. I have to say, the lessons have been great. Anyone trying to learn this instrument on their own is just wasting a lot of time and potentially setting themselves up for problems down the road. I can't believe how much I've learned in just 3 lessons. Overall I’m progressing much quicker than I expected although I am finding the bow (French) a little frustrating. I’m hoping there will be a point soon when I at least get comfortable with it. Every now and then it sounds good enough that my family feels encouraged that the horrible noises will some day come to an end.

Sammy, good luck with your first lesson! Mine went really well, and I have to say it was a bit of a rush to leave felling I was on my way to playing this fantastic instrument.

[gomez hacienda]

Originally Posted by Sammy Camden

This thing has steel flatwounds on all four strings. Is that a common thing with URBs? I'm ignorant when it comes to these things, but ignorance is curable. And I'm doing all I can to "egikate" myself!!

Yup..flatwounds are it basically. Oh there are a few variations out there, but 90% are flat...it's a good thing. When you finally get a bass you can call your own, you're going to have oodles of fun finding the "perfect" strings. Yes, I can see it now...the old DB players home...a bunch of 85 yr old thumpers, sitting around talking about strings. Life is good.
All the best Sammy,

gomez

[Bellbass]

Originally Posted by gomez hacienda

Yes, I can see it now...the old DB players home...a bunch of 85 yr old thumpers, sitting around talking about strings. Life is good.
All the best Sammy,

gomez

Yep! Life is good. My story is similar to many here. Been playing electric bass (the "slab" in these parts of the Bass world) for 30 years before buying my first DB at 43! Let's say that's it's been an humbling experience After reading all the newbie threads, I tried to follow what appeared to me as the consensus on this forum: Buy a "not so cheap" bass, get some classical training and prepare to suffer (that were my teacher's words when I introduced myself to her: "Are you ready to suffer?"). And a few months later, although the suffering has not altogether stop, the pleasure is so intense that I spend most of my practice time on the Big One. I know I'll never attain the same level of playing that I have on the electric but I am nonetheless totally in love with DB.

Welcome to the Dark Side Sammy and have fun!!

[ctcruiser]

Originally Posted by fish slapper

"I added my own position dots on the side of the neck,..."

I've done this too with "temporary" stickers. My teacher was fine with a few markers. As he says, "its fine to have a few reference points but don't mark every position". I have 2nd, 4th,6th and a tiny pencil mark at the octave. The goal is to wean myself off of them. I took them off a couple months ago as I was embarrassed to have them at an audition, but my intonation was so bad, I didn't get the gig. So back on they went.

Maybe its time to try with them off again.

As an old newbie that played EB several years ago, I asked to have cheater position dots added to the side of the fingerboard to use as reference points.

I have been getting better, but there still times when my intonation is off while I am playing and reading at the same time. A quick glance lets me know how bad I am off.

At my age (49), I am not worried about my pride with using the dots. I just want to have fun playing something I always wanted to own, a DB. Now, after a year of practicing I am hoping to meet up with some musicians who won't mind having a newbie bassist trying to figure out the songs.

[Frank Louis]

Originally Posted by ctcruiser

At my age (49), I am not worried about my pride with using the dots. I just want to have fun playing something I always wanted to own, a DB. Now, after a year of practicing I am hoping to meet up with some musicians who won't mind having a newbie bassist trying to figure out the songs.

I hear ya pal, I use the tiny abolone guitar neck dots from Stew Mac. They look nice and are not noticable unless you're up close and personal !
I find the more I practice, the less I rely on these, unless I'm working in a electric band situation where the visual reference is almost necessity, IMHO . . . . .

[Bruce Lindfield]

I'm almost as old and not worried about pride - my EUB has dots all up and down the fingerboard - but I haven't found the need for them on DB, which gives me all the physical reference points I need.

[Sammy Camden]

Well, I had my very first lesson on Saturday. And, I thought it went pretty well. The lesson was actually 45 min instead of 30 min. I got there early and the student ahead of me hadn't shown up, so, he took me early. This lesson was more talk than do. He wanted to know my music background and just what I was wanting to accomplish. After we went through all of that, he informed me that he wasn't a Bluegrass, Country, or Rockabilly bassist, but he was a Jazz and Classical bassist. We both agreed that his function in my upright journey was to teach me as much as he could about the bass; technique, positions, bowing, posture, care and feeding, etc.; and a little jazz along the way. We felt that since I had already been playing bluegrass and country for a considerable number of years, I already knew the styles. Once he taught me my way around the instrument, properly, I could apply the theory knowledge I already possess and should be fine. As for rockabilly, he said I was on my own for that one. His own personal bass is a 200+ year old German flatback (I think that's what he said), don't remember the name.

So, I'm off and running. Been practicing a number of exercises with the bow since Saturday. Sometimes it sounds real nice, other times I'm reminded of the "floggin' a cow with a gut wound" comment. Man, it's terrible. Can't quite figure out what the difference is that's causing the sound variation. I think maybe it's the tilt on the bow because that seems to have the most effect; not enough, too much? Oh well, gotta' go flog the cow some more.

[44me]

Glad to hear the first lesson went well! I’ve been struggling with the same bow issues for 4 weeks. Last night my practicing sounded good enough that my wife commented that it was actually starting to sound like music (she’s very eager for the “cow flogging” phase to end), so maybe I’m reaching a breakthrough point. Each lesson we’ve spent the first half addressing technique, and I’m starting to see some of the things I’ve been focusing on developing into good habits. Most of my tone production problems with the bow seem to be related to pressure. I still often find that I’m not holding the bow in the right relation to the strings, but I’m now able to notice and correct for this fairly quickly now. I think it’s going to take a lot longer to get the pressure and feel to a level where I’m remotely confident with what I’m doing, but I’m getting a decent enough sound at times that I know I’m moving in the right direction.

Good luck with the cow flogging, and have fun! I know I am.

[5stringDNA]

great to hear more guys getting into it, especially at you age Sammy. I'm still a youngin' at 22, but picked up the upright about 1 1/2 years ago. You are actually not far off on the bow analysis- the angle of your bow is important to getting a good, clean tone and playing smooth. Keeping the bow squarely perpendicular to the strings and putting a light upward tilt on the stick can insure consistently even pressure of the hair. If your technique is right, you don't need to push very hard unless you want a really gritty (and messy) tone. My intonation still needs work- my bass came with a few markers set into the sides, but I try not to use them most of the time. The nice thing about sheet music excercises is that you can't look at them if you are reading the sheets .
Another factor in the sound is just your touch and feel for the thing- it takes awhile to develop a good connection with the instrument and be able to "feel" it out. Anoher facotr coudl be your instrument setup- if you have a palatino (which is generally not a quality instrument) combined with a questionable no-name bow, it coudl be harder to produce a consistently smooth tone. You will still be able to do it ok with good technique, it may just be ahrder. The biggest issue with learning on a low-quality instrument is that you get frustrated with the feel and sound of it more easily and it can kill your joy to play. I wouldn't worry about it too much since you are just renting at reasonable rate, but don't let the lack of a great isntrumetn discourage you at this point either. Best of luck!