Another newbie thread.

[Dulahey]

First, I've never played bass of any kind and I have very minimal guitar experience.

Secondly, I do know music. Meaning: I've played piano my whole life and numerous wind instruments.

Now moving on. I am wanting to purchase my first ever upright bass. Yes, upright. I will be playing with a bluegrass band at church. The poor guys play right now with NO bass at all and I desperately want to fill out their sound.

I had recommendations to head to a local acoustic mom and pop store where they kindly showed me their Cremona SB-2's and SB-3's. After about 5 seconds of searching, I read all I needed to tell me to RUN AWAY! Which is unfortunately really, because they were very nice and even wanted to teach me how to repair all sorts of things if they happened and a couple months of lessons for free.

But anyway, I'm now asking you guys for other options. Is it possible at all for me to find a decent beginner upright for less than $1000? (including simple case, stand & setup)

I really hope it is. I understand not wanting to buy a piece of crap but I'm also a total newbie that will not be surpassing an intermediate player anytime EVER. (most likely.... if so I'll upgrade then)

So I'm begging for any kind of information. I glanced at the newbie links but they're fairly generalized. I'd like some specific links to places.

Other info: I'm a 27 year old male in the Oklahoma City metro area. Going to Dallas wouldn't be out of the question if the deal was good enough.

Gollihur's Luthier link page shows one in Oklahoma in the very town I live in. Should I call this guy? Does he most likely sell uprights?

[TroyK]

Originally Posted by Dulahey

Gollihur's Luthier link page shows one in Oklahoma in the very town I live in. Should I call this guy? Does he most likely sell uprights?

Sure, definitely call and ask him. He's not going to mind the call and if you're going to own a bass, you'll need to know him anyway. He might have a few basses for sale or he might have a customer who is interested in selling one who he can connect you with.

If you have an open lines of communication with the luthier too, you can craigslist shop and ask him for input or inspection on something you are considering buying. It costs you nothing to call him and he's not going to turn off a future customer.

If you've read the newbee links at all you know that we don't have a great answer for you. Sometimes people find something for under $1,000 that meets their needs, but that's not where what we consider to be playable instruments start. And we're not being snobs (well, sometimes we are, but on this point we're not).

John and I just helped a local guy find a bass. He wanted to spend hundreds instead of thousands. Seattle actually has a lot of basses and we took him around, warned him off of a few. Took him to a few shops where he got to ask a lot of questions and play a few things. We even went to check out some craigslist basses with him that were under $1,000. Never told him not to buy them, either. I told him to be patient and maybe he'd find something. Last week he bought a used Christopher for $1,650 with a used case. Then he bought a new pickup for about $200 and a used set of Spirocores for about $90 and now he's having the bridge reshaped. He'll have a good, playable bass for about $2,000.

He could have bought one of the cheaper basses if he had chosen to, but once he understood them, he didn't. Of course his first email to me was "What do you think about this new ebonized bass on eBay for $800?", which is where everyone starts. Oh, he also has great woodworking skills and was thinking about building one or fixing up something junky.

Call the luthier, it's the right place to begin and welcome to Talkbass.

[Dulahey]

Thanks Troy. What if I was to up the cost to $1500? That would have to be my absolute max as I do not have the savings to spend more. (wedding/honeymoon next year taking almost all I got lol)

[TroyK]

You can definitely find things in that range. Someone else will know better than I where, but check Upton and URBBOB.com. And, not to be dismissive, but you will find this info if you read old threads. It's not that I don't want to tell you, but I just don't know. I know of one local to me right now that's from the 1960s, I think, that's under $1,500. It's not great, but it's fine. It would make you happy.

There's a guy on here, who we haven't heard from in a while who bought an Englehardt used for $400 and is thrilled with it. That was an extraordinary deal, but they do happen if you're patient and educate yourself so you don't buy into a problem.

Start with a friendly call to the luthier and ask if they know of anything. If they say no and don't offer any opinions, which I think it unlikely, ask if they would inspect something before you bought it and tell them that you've been advised that the two of you will get to know each other once you're an owner.

If you're not in a huge hurry, odds are better for you getting that great deal.

[Dulahey]

I'm still trying to get a hold of the local Luthier.

What's the general opinion of the Engelhardt EC-1 / EM-1(B)?

Are these pretty much the lowest you would recommend going?

[Eric Hochberg]

I guess I can write this one more time: Check out a Shen SB80 from any number of dealers and stringemporium.com, Lemurmusic.com, Upton, etc. They may have a house brand bass in your price range.

[TroyK]

Englehardt, Shen, Christopher, Upton all have reputable basses in the entry range. I am among the people who don't exactly care for the neck profile of the Englehardts, but that doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with them and if it's the only bass you ever have, you won't have anything to compare it to. I have a nagging in the back of my consciousness about stringemporium, but it's not based on a personal experience with their product, so take that for what it's worth. I would personally feel more comfortable dealing with Upton.

Lemur is a good shop too. I don't know anything about their basses, though. I know a few have been owned through here, so maybe someone has personal experience. But at $1,000 beware of new basses that don't come with one of these labels and a pro-setup in my opinion. And there are a lot of them, because a lot of people are looking for something in that price range. They almost always have European names, but were made in Asia.

Christopher and Shen are made in China too, but are good basses as are Eastman and some others. Now, a used bass that's been a church or someone's ...no basements in Norman if I remember correctly...someone's...rumpus room(?) for 20 years, could be a deal. Kays and American Standards and things show up that way sometimes and could make you very happy if they've not been abused.

[Eric Hochberg]

Originally Posted by TroyK

I have a nagging in the back of my consciousness about stringemporium, but it's not based on a personal experience with their product, so take that for what it's worth. I would personally feel more comfortable dealing with Upton.

Why write this if not based on anything you know or can articulate?

[Eric Swanson]

In my modest experience, String Emporium is terrific!

I have also had very pleasant experiences with Golihur and Robertsons...

[Eric Swanson]

Originally Posted by Eric Hochberg

I guess I can write this one more time: Check out a Shen SB80 from any number of dealers and stringemporium.com, Lemurmusic.com, Upton, etc. They may have a house brand bass in your price range.

+1 to a Shen. They are simply very good. How about the Shen SB 150, for a killer hybrid?

[Dulahey]

I have a bass professor at a local college helping me out as well now. He tells me that Shen's can be very inconsistent in the price range we're talking about.

Oh, Troy, you are correct. There are no basements here.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Dulahey

I have a bass professor at a local college helping me out as well now. He tells me that Shen's can be very inconsistent in the price range we're talking about.

I never heard of or experienced such an inconsistency but would be curious to hear what others think. Even if Shen's were inconsistent, they'd be a much better bet than other basses that are not inconsistent, but are consistently bad!

[Uncletoad]

I don't agree with the professor.

Not the first time I've argued with a professor though.

Like anything made to hit low price points there are enough compromises that you'll find some funky stuff in Shen basses if you look at enough of them. They are very good about standing behind them however and their dealer network is very good. Overall I've found them above average in quality and consistency for the price point. I think they have set the bar pretty high for everyone else in the low buck bass market. They beat everything else I've seen from China.

Around here you can get a well set up plywood Shen for between $1500 and $1800 with a cheap bag. I think for purchasing that's the best you can do for something brand new that is playable.

On occasion you can stumble into a Joe German ply bass from the 40's or 50's for less than that and more than $1000 but you have to be in the right place at the right time with the money. Very often those are significantly better than the Shen under $2000 basses. Very often they are not.

The other consideration is renting. Around here you can rent a Shen for $40 a week or something and it's rent to own if you want or you just give it back if you bail. They'll also credit you with upgrade cash from the money you spent if you buy something better.

Might be worth looking for that in your neighborhood.

[Dulahey]

Yeah, I'm not here to stick up for this professor. I actually don't know him at all. Just another random place I found to use for research. My main reason for contacting him was to see if he knew anyone selling a used bass, or if the University was. I was just passing along his opinion. He also said he had never heard of Thompson basses. I take everyone's opinions and just try to get an overall feel. I'm sure I'll end up with something fine for me. This is, afterall, for a very amateur hobby. I would actually probably be fine getting a CCB, but the falling apart and being unrepairable is what turns me away lol.

[TroyK]

Originally Posted by Eric Hochberg

Why write this if not based on anything you know or can articulate?

I didn't say that I couldn't articulate it, I just didn't want to derail the thread, but now I feel like I must.

If someone with an established history on Talkbass has personal experience with one of their basses and would like to share it, that would be meaningful to me and I'm sure the OP. Talkbass has been littered with almost identically worded glowing reviews of these instruments and the dude (can't think of his name) at String Emporium by people registering, just so that they can post that review and then disappear into the night. It makes me and others suspicious and leaves a bad taste in my mouth, fair or not. Perception is reality in the world of consumer confidence.

On the other hand, I do know people who have have owned and I've had a chance to play the other instruments that we suggested and I feel much more comfortable recommending them based on either my own experience or the recommendation of someone I at least know something about and have some context for if not a friend working here locally.

If our OP shops craigslist in Norman, OK (where I used to go to visit my grandmother), he might find Shens, Kays, Christophers, Eastmans, Englehardts, etc because they've been around and are established in the market. I don't think that the Thommons or whatever the basses from the String Emporium have been in circulation long enough to show up that way. So, they likely only come into play in the less than ideal scenario of ordering a new bass on-line, sight unseen. If this is what he decides to do, I stand by my strong endorsement that Upton (for example) is much more of a known entity that he will be less likely to have any surprises from.

I'm not accusing String Emporium of anything, but I do think that whether or not they were responsible there was some viral marketing going on that has left a doubts about them with at least part of this community. If you've missed those threads, you can search for them, but the mods cleansed them considerably, so some of that history is now not documented, except here, which I frankly was trying to avoid doing.

I was careful not to say "stay away" or "there's a problem with those instruments", because I don't know that. I'd have to look back to see what I explicitly wrote, but I was considerate and I was helping this guy, rather than just dumping on the thread. As always my advice is worth exactly what he paid for it and anyone is welcome to disregard it.

Fair enough?

[Bass]

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

...Around here you can get a well set up plywood Shen for between $1500 and $1800 with a cheap bag. I think for purchasing that's the best you can do for something brand new that is playable...

What about an Eberle Laminate bass? $950 + delivery + setup probably = < $1500.

Do you think an Eberle is a better deal / more economical than a Shen? I suppose the Eberle would not be considered "brand new" but rather new old stock.

[Steve Swan]

The Shen SB 80 is a great choice in this price range. I would contact Jon Sprague at CSC Products to find a dealer within driving distance of your locations. Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

[Dulahey]

Originally Posted by Steve Swan

The Shen SB 80 is a great choice in this price range. I would contact Jon Sprague at CSC Products to find a dealer within driving distance of your locations. Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

Their website shows the Luthier here in Norman as being a vendor for Shen (whether or not that includes basses is another question). I wish he would answer his phone

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by Bass

What about an Eberle Laminate bass? $950 + delivery + setup probably = < $1500.

Do you think an Eberle is a better deal / more economical than a Shen? I suppose the Eberle would not be considered "brand new" but rather new old stock.

I've never seen one.

[Eric Hochberg]

Originally Posted by TroyK

I didn't say that I couldn't articulate it, I just didn't want to derail the thread, but now I feel like I must.

If someone with an established history on Talkbass has personal experience with one of their basses and would like to share it, that would be meaningful to me and I'm sure the OP. Talkbass has been littered with almost identically worded glowing reviews of these instruments and the dude (can't think of his name) at String Emporium by people registering, just so that they can post that review and then disappear into the night. It makes me and others suspicious and leaves a bad taste in my mouth, fair or not. Perception is reality in the world of consumer confidence.

Thanks for the clarification, Troy. The reason I jumped in on your comment was that I think it is far too easy for us to bash people, businesses, etc. on the internet and I think when we go there, a good reason should be offered.

I guess I have an established history on TB and have written a number of times about my experience with the String Emporium's Wan Bernadel basses. I have played two and found them to be very nice, especially for being priced under $5k. My luthier first turned me on to them, as one of his clients in the Indianapolis Symphony owns one and he was impressed with it. I suggested that my student check them out as he was looking for a new bass. Owner, Steve Koscika at SE (who is also a pro symphony bassist) sent him one and he had it for a couple of weeks. A really nice bass, well set up and ready to go (he didn't keep it as he felt it was a bit too large for him). The fine bassist and my old friend, Steve LaSpina also plays one. So, these are the reasons I suggested the OP look into String Emporium. Based on the good quality of the Wan, while I don't have first hand experience with the less expensive SE instruments, I am taking the leap that they are of good quality, too, and would be worth a look, at least. I haven't seen any threads here ripping their quality, either.

I remember the promotion incident regarding SE now that you bring it up. I guess I'm not that bothered by it as I think their basses are good. This is not a scammy business, IMO. And frankly, I think all three of my store recommendations have had threads written regarding some business incident or other.