Antigua - has anyone heard of these?

[manjonning]

I'm extremely poor and have been wanting to get back into upright after a 10yr departure from the student bass I played in High School... I found this on ebay and I work as a fright broker so shipping for me will be fvery minimal...

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-3-4-UPRIGHT-...QQcmdZViewItem

Any advise would be greatly aprciated!

Jon

[hdiddy]

For $259, that's some expensive firewood! I love it how they say:

(IT CAN BE CONVERTED TO A LEFT HANDED BASS BY SIMPLY REVERSING THE STRINGS AND BRIDGE).

Save your pennies and read up on TBDB. Makes of this range tend to be on the disastrous side I think. There's some less risky makes you can go for that have some controversy here but I think everyone agrees that you should buy the best you can afford.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by hdiddy

For $259, that's some expensive firewood! I love it how they say:

Save your pennies and read up on TBDB. Makes of this range tend to be on the disastrous side I think. There's some less risky makes you can go for that have some controversy here but I think everyone agrees that you should buy the best you can afford.

+1

[Michael Case]

I like the rack and pinion tuners.

[philip sirois]

Originally Posted by mike da mook

I like the rack and pinion tuners.

That's great and all, but without the power assist bridge and
antilock endpin, I wouldn't pay more than $200.

[Michael Case]

Originally Posted by philip sirois

That's great and all, but without the power assist bridge and
antilock endpin, I wouldn't pay more than $200.

Don't those come standard?

[Silversorcerer]

Antigua, ... that's the best Guatamalan coffee there is, right? $259 for a pound of coffee? Get Real!

[ctxbass]

Originally Posted by Silversorcerer

Antigua, ... that's the best Guatamalan coffee there is, right? $259 for a pound of coffee? Get Real!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kopi_Luwak

[Silversorcerer]

Originally Posted by ctxbass

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kopi_Luwak

Well, yeah, but who'd pay that for brewed sh --,

This is what I was talking about now, Antigua beans;- no cat involved

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by manjonning

I found this on ebay and I work as a fright broker ...

Oh the irony!!

[akaHank]

I know this is an old post but I wanted to set the record straight(er)...

Yes, I have not only heard of these but I bought one from the seller poorkid101. I think the seller operates under another alias also. And these basses are no longer offered.

My impression...if I had had the storage space I would've bought 20 of these and resold them locally for $2000. They are that good.

After tuning, it played right out of the crate. I am a luthier, so I tweaked the set up as downtime permitted. I played a Fri.thru Sun. gig starting the day I picked it up at ABF Freight.

The box(basic body/structure) is fantastic.

Solid carved top, pernambuco half-lined French bow, thick cordura padded bag.

Its only problem is the rotated fingerboard that is common to cheap Asian instruments. This requires some careful evaluation by an experienced luthier to make it capable of solo/serious work. Otherwise, string it up and play it.

My daughter, in Graduate School, plays the loudest and most responsive cello I have ever heard. All solid carved wood, new, $219 on eBay 7 years ago.

Try not to underestimate the potential of these cheap instruments until you work with them for a while and learn how to draw out the good qualities.

Granted, if you go this route and you don't have a close relative that is a luthier, you may spend upwards of $500 to get one of these cheap instruments set up well. But the upside can be pretty interesting.

[drurb]

Interesting. Where do you work as a luthier? Perhaps you'll fill out your profile. I see you joined today.

Carved top for $259 and your daughter has a fine cello that cost $219 on ebay.

I do want to know where you live. It seems like it might be in a world different than the one I inhabit. Perhaps we have VERY different ideas about what makes a good bass.

Perhaps you managed to find instruments on ebay that were some of the greatest deals of the century. If so, one has to wonder why sellers would offer such deals.

[akaHank]

If you want to drop the gloves and get it on, let's go.

But the information I supplied is simply for the benefit of those who may have serious inquiries about this bass and NOT for forum hacks who have nothing better to do than try to flex their flacid, anonymous, forum muscles by discouraging others.

There's a big world out there and most of us can cope with it without thinking that anonymous intimidation is the way to do it.

Everything I stated in my reply to a serious poster is true and there's no need for you to try and minimalize it with your lack of wherewithall.

[dchan]

Originally Posted by akaHank

If you want to drop the gloves and get it on, let's go.

But the information I supplied is simply for the benefit of those who may have serious inquiries about this bass and NOT for forum hacks who have nothing better to do than try to flex their flacid, anonymous, forum muscles by discouraging others.

There's a big world out there and most of us can cope with it without thinking that anonymous intimidation is the way to do it.

Everything I stated in my reply to a serious poster is true and there's no need for you to try and minimalize it with your lack of wherewithall.

That may all be true, but at least fill out your profile with some useful, specific information. It will give more credibility to whatever you are saying.

And believe me, we all know that there is a big world out there. There could be basses that we have never heard of that could blow basses we already know are good out of the water. It's just that we have been burned so many times we have tried to step out of our box and try new, untested instruments.

We've been treated to the likes of Palantinos, Cremonas, Meranos and other cheaply constructed, poor sounding Chinese basses that have left their owners heartbroken. The worst parts of these experiences are not for the doublebass players that have played for years and know what to expect and avoid. No, they are for the rookies who are eager to play and learn, buy these instruments because of their low price, and then abandon not just the cheap bass but playing the doublebass altogether.

At TalkBass, our tone is condescending towards these instruments, but it is tone that comes from our experience. Just look through the threads on this site, and you will find threads with beginners looking to buy these cheap basses solely on their price. You will also find other posts warning of not to buy these basses as well as posts of such basses with their necks snapped off, their tops and backs separating from the ribs, as well as other common problems of poorly constructed instruments. So forgive us for our bitter perception of new, cheap, untested instruments. Just remember that is is a perception that has come from our experience.

Also, as a luthier, can you give us some thoughts on exactly how it is possible to build a good doublebass and sell it for less than $300? The seller may be selling for a loss to generate some business and good reviews. But if he/she is selling for profit, then what techniques might be used in the building process? Machines carving out the body according to specifications, possibly? I'm just curious.

Also, welcome to TalkBass.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by akaHank

If you want to drop the gloves and get it on, let's go.

But the information I supplied is simply for the benefit of those who may have serious inquiries about this bass and NOT for forum hacks who have nothing better to do than try to flex their flacid, anonymous, forum muscles by discouraging others.

There's a big world out there and most of us can cope with it without thinking that anonymous intimidation is the way to do it.

Everything I stated in my reply to a serious poster is true and there's no need for you to try and minimalize it with your lack of wherewithall.

Okay, gloves off!

First, you criticize my anonymity but you posted completely anonymously without your profile completed. Now, there's the pot calling the kettle black!

I have been around here quite a while. You joined yesterday. Although I prefer to have a user name that does not reflect my identity to the public, folks around here have certainly had ample opportunity to evaluate my credibility. That is, while I may be anonymous, I am not unknown to folks here. You are both anonymous and unknown.

We have been offered nothing by which to assess your creibility. One of the basic tenets in evaluating information and/or data is, "Consider the source." We had, and at the time of this writing, have, absolutely no way to do that with regard to your assertions. You imply that I am a "forum hack?" So far, that label fits you quite well and me not at all. By the way, I do reveal my personal information via PM and email to those with whom I become well acquainted and/or friends.

You don't need to instruct me on the ways of the big world. I believe I cope quite well with it. My success attests to that. "Anonymous intimidation?" You should read my reply to you carefully. I asked for your credentials, indicated that the information strains credibility (it does), and concluded by allowing for the possibility that you stumbled on an amazing deal. "Methinks He Doth Protest Too Much."

Now, to the matter at hand:

You, as an anonymous self-proclaimed luthier, proceeded to tell this community that, for $259, one can buy a bass that, with $500 worth of setup work, would rival basses selling for $2000. That strains credibility, Mr. Luthier.

Even considering the relatively lower cost of materials and labor in China, $259 would cover the cost of neither in terms of what is required to produce an instrument of even modest quality. So, it seems there are three possibilities:

1) These basses would be judged, by experienced members of this community, to be as good as you say they are. In that case, the seller would have to have been unloading them far below any reasonable estimate of their cost of production. You just happened to be one of the luck few who found them.

2) The basses are generally what one would expect for the price of $259. In that case, your requirements in terms of build-quality and sonic characteristics would differ vastly from those that typify the ones possessed by this community.

3) You are trying to "pull the leg" of this community.

The a priori probability of #1 is extremely low. There is no reason to accept that as true, given it was asserted by a source (you) whose credibility and experience are unknown.

I would like to think #3 is not true.

The most reasonable and benevolent conclusion, for the moment, and, in the absence of substantive relevant additional information, is #2.

In the end, you are claiming that one can buy (or could recently buy) a decent instrument with a carved spruce top for $259. The onus is squarely on your shoulders.

DING!

[akaHank]

What's it to you, drurb?

And why do you insist on highjacking a thread in order to refute facts that you would have no way of proving/disproving their veracity?

Yeah, I joined yesterday. If you don't like the rules of the Forum, move on or fight to have the rules changed. It really doesn't matter to me.

You want me to provide profile details? And what would that prove? You can't stomach a positive comment to a sincere poster about cheap Chinese instruments? You attack me personally, trying to discredit my remarks and, no doubt, you would try to discredit any profile details.

"The onus is squarely on my shoulders"?

There is no onus. There's a Chinese bass with a carved solid-spruce top sitting here that I paid $269 for and $210 for shipping. I pulled the saddle off and the endgrain in the table is like this lllllllllll not like ======.

What's it to you? I'm simply reporting the facts of my experience with cheap instruments to a poster who asked for opinions. He said he was "extremely poor" and I only sought to provide a little encouragement in his bass playing pursuit.

If you don't agree, I don't care. Now, go ahead and get the last word in with another off-topic post so you can feel like you won.

[WarriorJoe7]

I would say this as friendly as possible. akaHank where are you a luthier at? Do you have your own shop? If so where is it located?

Thanks,
Joe

[Silversorcerer]

Originally Posted by akaHank

I know this is an old post but I wanted to set the record straight(er)...

A noble if untimely cause!

Originally Posted by akaHank

Yes, I have not only heard of these but I bought one from the seller poorkid101. I think the seller operates under another alias also. And these basses are no longer offered.

OK, thanks for straightening that out. I certainly thought is was a fly by night operation, and I'm glad you cleared that up.

Originally Posted by akaHank

My impression...if I had had the storage space I would've bought 20 of these and resold them locally for $2000. They are that good.

If the seller actually had 20 of them. I'm starting to think a couple of basses fell off a truck somewhere on the turnpike.

Originally Posted by akaHank

After tuning, it played right out of the crate. I am a luthier, so I tweaked the set up as downtime permitted. I played a Fri.thru Sun. gig starting the day I picked it up at ABF Freight.

I've found that it's usually easier to tune them after you get them out of the crate. And you got three good days out of it! Wow!

Originally Posted by akaHank

The box(basic body/structure) is fantastic.

Definitelty "fell off a truck" at that price if this is true. That is unless you actually mean fantastic as in fantasy.

Originally Posted by akaHank

Solid carved top, pernambuco half-lined French bow, thick cordura padded bag.

So hot, it burns my fingers just hearing about it.

Originally Posted by akaHank

Its only problem is the rotated fingerboard that is common to cheap Asian instruments. This requires some careful evaluation by an experienced luthier to make it capable of solo/serious work. Otherwise, string it up and play it.

That is if you think no warranty is not a problem, and nothing else happens to pop loose. What's a rotated fingerboard anyway? Was that rotated on a lathe?

Originally Posted by akaHank

My daughter, in Graduate School, plays the loudest and most responsive cello I have ever heard. All solid carved wood, new, $219 on eBay 7 years ago.

Anecdotal relevance = zero relevance to the bass under discussion. It is not a cello. It is not 7 yrs. ago. Your daughter is not going to be playing it. And it is unlikely the prospective purchaser's father is a luthier.

Originally Posted by akaHank

Try not to underestimate the potential of these cheap instruments until you work with them for a while and learn how to draw out the good qualities.

Try not to send people down a path to a very plausible dead end. Go buy a lottery ticket if you think that's a good idea. Don't try to sell me one or explain why you think it is a good idea. Statistically, by the many, many reports here, cheap basses, akaBass<$1000, is probably a bad idea.

Originally Posted by akaHank

Granted, if you go this route and you don't have a close relative that is a luthier, you may spend upwards of $500 to get one of these cheap instruments set up well. But the upside can be pretty interesting.

Well, at least we finally get the record straight. Twice as much to make it playable than to get it built and delivered. So what was the interesting upside? My short term memory loss is kicking in. The seller is out of business, was only known by more than one alias, the unkown person reporting on the positives left those out and confirmed all the negatives that were pointed out a couple of months earlier.

Well akaHank, thanks for setting the record straight. We'll all go check out the Antigua basses next time they come up for air.

[Silversorcerer]

Originally Posted by akaHank

What's it to you, drurb?

Well, the purpose of everyone posting on the forum is to aid aspiring as well as established players and share knowledge. Drurb has been an established player of the DB for more than 30 years. As such he has some valuable knowledge to share, including a knowledge of what is just too good to be true.

Originally Posted by akaHank

And why do you insist on highjacking a thread in order to refute facts that you would have no way of proving/disproving their veracity?

Any member of the forum can respond to your post. As far as hijacking a thread, well Hank, you are just getting your toes wet now... And if you don't like the forum rules, Oh yeah, you already covered that.

Originally Posted by akaHank

Yeah, I joined yesterday. If you don't like the rules of the Forum, move on or fight to have the rules changed. It really doesn't matter to me.

Originally Posted by akaHank

You want me to provide profile details? And what would that prove? You can't stomach a positive comment to a sincere poster about cheap Chinese instruments? You attack me personally, trying to discredit my remarks and, no doubt, you would try to discredit any profile details.

Actually if you provided some details and some people here knew who you were and had positive experience with you and reported such, that would lend some credibility to your posts. On the other hand, you could just be some imposter instead of a valuable poster.

Originally Posted by akaHank

"The onus is squarely on my shoulders"?

I'd say so. We have akaHank. kerchief? Williams? And some anecdotal cello story. Try forwarding e-mails.

Originally Posted by akaHank

There is no onus. There's a Chinese bass with a carved solid-spruce top sitting here that I paid $269 for and $210 for shipping. I pulled the saddle off and the endgrain in the table is like this lllllllllll not like ======.

The DB's I've seen I could discern the grain without removing the saddle. Was the finish on the edges so thick that you couldn't see the grain orientation there?

Originally Posted by akaHank

What's it to you? I'm simply reporting the facts of my experience with cheap instruments to a poster who asked for opinions. He said he was "extremely poor" and I only sought to provide a little encouragement in his bass playing pursuit.

In any case some of what you reported may be fact. We don't know. The rest of what you reported is your opinion, which reflects a willingness to encourage others to take a chance that many here agree is a waste of hard earned money. That is our opinion. It is also our experience as well as our opinion that many potential players are discouraged by bad instruments. If you post your opinion and are flooded by disagreement, that is what this forum is for.

It is plausible to me that "poorkid" seller, the extremely poor potential buyer, and akaHank, might be one and the same. I don't particularly cotton to people posing as "poor" and using that to sympathetically identify with the real "poor" who can be taken advantage of. That comes from having been poor myself. When you are really "poor" the last thing you need to do is make a purchase that immediately requires that you spend even more money.

Originally Posted by akaHank

If you don't agree, I don't care. Now, go ahead and get the last word in with another off-topic post so you can feel like you won.

In the end, it is plausibility, experience, and transparent identity as opposed to anonymity and extremely dubious claims that always "wins". See you later akaHank.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by akaHank

What's it to you, drurb?

I have an investment in this community and a stake in making sure newbies and others are not misled. You made a fantastic (yes, as in, "fantasy") statement that defies much of the collective experience of the folks here. You asserted you are an expert. It would be unwise for anyone to take such a statement at face value. You were simply asked for your credentials. You refuse to give them.

Originally Posted by akaHank

And why do you insist on highjacking a thread in order to refute facts that you would have no way of proving/disproving their veracity?

Hardly hijacking! Yes, we have no way of evaluating the veracity of your counterintuitive statement that defies what most of us believe. That's the point, Mr. Luthier!

Originally Posted by akaHank

Yeah, I joined yesterday. If you don't like the rules of the Forum, move on or fight to have the rules changed. It really doesn't matter to me.

Wow, you really did miss the point. It is fine that you joined yesterday. You were critical of my anonymity. The point is, having joined a while back and participated actively in these discussions, I am a known quantity. You, having joined yesterday, and remaining anonymous provide us no way to assess your credibility. Do you understand now?

Originally Posted by akaHank

You want me to provide profile details? And what would that prove? You can't stomach a positive comment to a sincere poster about cheap Chinese instruments? You attack me personally, trying to discredit my remarks and, no doubt, you would try to discredit any profile details.

Let's try this again. You made an assertion that flies in the face of the collective experience and knowledge of this community. You made it as a self-proclaimed expert. Telling us who you are and about your own experience and expertise would let us evaluate your assertion. It speaks volumes that you are unwilling to do that. I did not attack you at all. I simply said and am saying that you give us nothing to consider abandoning the beliefs most of us hold re dirt-cheap instruments. How do you know that I would attempt to discredit your profile as a matter of course? You are wrong-- again.

Originally Posted by akaHank

"The onus is squarely on my shoulders"? There is no onus.

Yes, there is, if you want anyone to take your incredible statement seriously.

Originally Posted by akaHank

There's a Chinese bass with a carved solid-spruce top sitting here that I paid $269 for and $210 for shipping. I pulled the saddle off and the endgrain in the table is like this lllllllllll not like ======.

Well, Mr. Luthier, it takes a great deal more than that to make a good bass!

Originally Posted by akaHank

If you don't agree, I don't care.

Your continued response argues otherwise.

Originally Posted by akaHank

Now, go ahead and get the last word in with another off-topic post so you can feel like you won.

Well, in order to do that on "another," I'd have to have done it here. My remarks were hardly off-topic. As far as winning, Mr. Luthier, to continue your boxing analogy, I scored a TKO. You just refuse to leave the ring.