Any Advice on Purchasing an Entry-Level DB?

[Mongo51]

I have read the n00b buyer's guide for double basses, and while I found it helpful for general, basic information, I still do not feel confident in the bass market. I find it difficult because of the increased variation from instrument to instrument, as makes and models can differ greatly. The task of buying used sounds even more daunting.

I have been playing electric bass for about three years and I have played about half of a year of double bass in a jazz ensemble. I have never seriously used a bow on a DB, as I use my fingers for both bluegrass and jazz.

I'm getting a job over the summer that will require the purchasing of a bass, and although I think I'll end up spending more on the bass than I will make with the job, it will be worth it. I will be playing primarily bluegrass/old-time style music, but I would also like to be able to use the bass for jazz. I am interested in loudness, but I don't want crappy tone either. I am also quite spoiled by my the school-owned bass that I used in terms of action height.

Unfortunately, I am unsure of the storage conditions that I will be provided, so I might be forced to store the bass (in a case, of course) in a non-climate-controlled environment.

I will definitely be using this bass almost daily for two months this summer, and then I expect it to get casual use following that. I am definitely not buying this bass to pursue a career in orchestral music.

I have heard good things on these forums about Kay, Englehardt, Christopher, Strunal, Prescott, Juzek, etc... Obviously, my choices are limited by my budget. I would like some specific suggestions for quality basses in this range.

As far as location goes, I am located in Williamsburg, VA, but I have no form of transportation to travel to outlying areas to go questing for the perfect instrument, so I might have to settle buying online. My budget is a little uncertain at this point, but I would appreciate suggestions ranging from $1100-$2000, including set-up. I would appreciate any assistance that you guys have in this department.

[ctcruiser]

There is no perfect instrument. As you noted, there are a wide variety of instruments out there to choose from.

The first thing to do is actually try out a few if you can. Go on-line and search for luthiers. If you go to Gollihur's website you can see that there are a couple of luthiers listed for Virginia.

http://www.gollihurmusic.com/luthiers.cfm

Even if you decide to buy on-line, you will need some assistance with set ups and maybe repairs (in the future).

It seems that the best instrument for your situation and spending range would be a plywood or maybe a hybrid (ply body with a carved top). There is plenty of advice regarding new and used instruments on this board. Please heed the advice that everyone will speak of here.....DO NOT BUY a CCB!

Good luck!

[Bass Barrister]

Welcome to TalkBass. There's plenty of room for another musical lumberjack.

The cold hard facts: There is no substitute for playing a variety of basses and choosing the one that sound best given the amount of money you have to spend. Anything else will be a compromise.

That said, if you are absolutely positively unable to travel a bit a check out some basses, you should call one of the shops that most of us here think are decent dealers who do sell online. These include Upton, Lemur, Fretwell, String Emporium and probably some others that will be recommended. Talk to these folks in person and tell them what you need, how much you have to spend, and they will try to help you.

By the way, what bass are you playing now? If you are ahppy, this may be a starting point for your search. Be aware, however, that each bass is different, even among basses of the same brand and model.

Good luck in your search. It's part of the pain and pleasure of playing this beast.

[Mongo51]

I appreciate the referral to the places I can look. If anyone else has similar suggestions, please chime in. I understand that not visiting luthiers is generally a bad choice, but it may be required.

I graduated from the institution in which I had access to the bass, so I can't find the model number, but I remember that it was Kay.

I understand that each instrument has its own unique properties that determine its overall quality and playability, but since I will have limited time (if any) to try them out, I would like to narrow my search to a certain number of quality makes and models. Once I have a decent idea of what is quality and value for my price range, I can spend my limited time trying them out.

I realize that this is in no way the ideal method for shopping for a double bass, but this is a regrettable effect of my current predicament.

[wineaux]

Mongo,

I understand your transportation limitations and your interest in getting a bass soon. But buying a bass that you haven't had a chance to play or see in person is an invitation to disaster that could cost you money and time. And even after all that money and time, you still might have an unplayable turkey. (EDIT: If you absolutely, positively can't avoid buying a bass you haven't played, in your price range I'd look at Upton's entry level laminate. They'll work with you in setting up to your preferences and they ship a lot of basses so they know what they're doing on that end. But it make take more time than you have to get a bass from them. Shipping still ain't cheap, but you'll increase your odds of getting a good bass that you haven't played.)

Take the money you would spend on shipping (not cheap) and set up by good luthier (potentially not cheap) and pay somebody to drive you to Staunton, Va. -- about 2.5 hours from Williamsburg, I believe -- and go to Jerry Fretwell's shop. You will be able to play many Engles (in your price range) and Kays (probably not in your price range) to get an idea of the range of sounds and possibilities.

With the right bass, an adjustable bridge and suitable strings, you should be able to get started in both bluegrass and jazz.

If you play some basses of each make and discover your preference is a Kay and that's outside your price range, consider renting a bass for your short-term gig and saving up for the bass you want.

Finally, you're probably right that you won't make enough from the gigs to cover the cost of the bass. I have a bumpersticker on my car that says "Bluegrass Musician, Driver Has No Money."

Good luck.

[Tejano Bass]

Mongo - check your PM . . .

[Mongo51]

I appreciate the suggestions, and Fretwell looks like a good choice. I'll also check Upton.

I may actually be able to get to Fretwell's shop, but he contacted me via PM and said he will be 30 minutes from Williamsburg in March.

[Mongo51]

I've been checking out models, and I've landed on a few that seem like decent bets. Like I said before, I realize the important fact that there is a large amount of variation in instruments in the same model. I will try my best to try out a bass before I pay for it. That being said, I would appreciate comments/reviews/input on the following models that I found on the websites of suggested retailers, or suggestions of other models.

Thompson Upright RM-100
Engelhardt ES-1 or ES-9
Christopher 100 Series
Christopher 200 Series
UB Standard Double Bass
SB80 SHEN BASS

Obviously, I'm leaning toward the Engelhardts simply because Fretwell sells them. But I want to be thorough, as I'm not sold on the bright sound of the Engelhardts (I haven't really heard the others). Does anyone have experience with these models, particularly the Upton Bass Standard?

I've also read that some hybrid basses can be had in my price range, although I have yet to find any. Where can I find them, and are cheap hybrids any good?

[PaperbackRyder]

Hiya Mongo,
I just went thru the same thing last fall. Bought the UptonStd. I could drive to their shop, as well as several others in New England and New York. I got to play a bunch of different basses of different vintages. Did not like the thin neck of the Engle/kay types, and in my hands, I could not tell the tonal differences in a fine instrument, so I went with the low price and shop proximity. I got a really good bass for a really good price. All I could ask for given my lack of experience and funds. Put EP strings on it too so I could learn the bow. Very nice sound. Very nice folks to deal with also.

=JR=
My only gripe is that I prefer a Gamba shape and it was not available yet. Boo hoo...

[Mongo51]

I actually like the violin shape better, but I'm not particular.

I appreciate the input. Did you notice any tonal differences between the UB and the Englehardt, or was it just the neck?

[olivieraleman]

Mongo, I own an Upton hybrid. Cost about 3500.00. Good bass for the money. I owned 2 Kays before that. One I spent 500.00 on with 500.00 in set up. No improvement. Regardless of what you are told, tone costs money. I play jazz, bluegrass and country. Play as many basses as you can. But remember, tone costs. Period.

[olivieraleman]

By the way, I bought my Upton sight unseen, based on Gary Uptons reccomendation. These people are not going to lead you astray. Plus he will give you market value for your Upton against a better model. If all you wanna do is play root five bluegrass you wont know the difference. Harmonic playing is something else. You dont get something for nothing, especially when it comes to uprights. Save yourself time and money, call Gary at Upton and work a deal on an instrument. Ive been down this road before.

[EggyToast]

You like the violin shape more for sound, or for visual aesthetics? It sounds like the latter, which is why it's good to play a couple before you put the money down.

The gamba shape adds a lot of practicality to actually playing the instrument, for many people. Of course, different strokes etc., but that's why it's good to get your hands on a few before you drop the moolah.

[Mongo51]

I've played both and can't really hear the difference; maybe my ear isn't as sensitive to minute details like that. What's the advantage of the gamba style? I've always (in my very limited experiences with the DB) liked the violin shape because I find it easier to carry.

Currently, my experience with bluegrass is primarily root-five and ascending/descending diatonic runs, but I don't want to be limited to that. I also play walking bass lines in jazz as well, for example. I don't doubt for a second that tone costs money...but anything I buy will have to be a sacrifice because of my budget, so I want to maximize my tone in my price range.

On a side note, are hybrid or carved basses less durable? I heard somewhere that they can break easier than good plywoods because their top isn't as thick, but I find it hard to believe.

[PaperbackRyder]

Mongo,

I didn't get to play the Engle and Upton side by side, so I cant give you a direct comparison. But I do remember thinking thru all the great advice I heard hear at TBDB and having a sense that "this is a BASS". I felt it could take me in any direction my playing career went.

Sound-wise I felt the Upton, without the thick gloss finish of the Engle, would have to sound better. Plus being designed & built by musicians, not factory workers, might have an impact on the quality tone. But still, it is a $2k instrument and like Olivieraleman said, tone costs. But for my money, this $2k instrument was my best choice for tone, build quality and customer service.

Anyway, good luck and enjoy the journey. I am!

=JR=

[wineaux]

Mongo,

A carved top is solid wood, which shrinks and expands more than laminated basses as temp and humidity change. It is more susceptible to cracks; I think of my carved bass as more fragile than my Kay, although the jazzer who owned it before me calls it beast and says I don't have to worry about babying it. Because of some cosmetic issues, and for being in the right place at the right time, I got it for a grand less than I paid for my Kay! I love 'em both, but the Kay is my go-to bass when I'm playing outside or playing in a crowd (which doesn't happen very often!) When I'm bowing or playing in my home studio, I reach for the other bass.

[olivieraleman]

Mongo, you seem to know the sound you are looking for. We all have a sound in our head that we want to hear and we get as close as our budgets allow. The Upton I have is not the sound I want, but is as close as I can get at the present time. Its a quality sound and Im happy with it for now. So we all compromise.

[Bass]

Originally Posted by Mongo51

I've played both and can't really hear the difference; maybe my ear isn't as sensitive to minute details like that. What's the advantage of the gamba style? I've always (in my very limited experiences with the DB) liked the violin shape because I find it easier to carry...

+1 The difference in sound between gamba and violin shape is very difficult to hear. See this thread for more details.

I was in a very similar situation as you two years ago. The closest bass shop to me would be at least 300 miles away. So I did a bunch of reading / research and decided to buy an Upton Laminate.

Only I really wanted a Gamba, but I still chose Upton despite violin being the only shape available at the time. And it was the smartest decision I ever made. Good bass, good price.

And I've come to prefer the violin shape over time. And it's easier to carry.

[Mongo51]

Thanks for the recommendation. How does it compare to other basses you have tried? For example, is it darker than an Englehardt?

[kittyboy]

I've heard great things about some of the Christophers from a guy who owned some really primo basses.

This was about 10 years ago though...