Any experience with gotofmi.com?...

[Hackster]

Hey, folks. My daughter is an 8th grade orchestral student and has played double for going on 3 years. She hasn't been able to bring the school instrument home for practice. I'm looking to buy her an inexpensive (notice how I avoided the other word) instrument for at-home, hopefully one that'll be serviceable down the road for awhile. She also plays electric, and has both fretted and fretless 4-strings. I had toyed with the idea of one of those cheap electric uprights, but decided against it after some good advice on that forum a few months back.

I'm considering two models from the gotofmi.com site; one is a 3/4 Merano and one is a 3/4 Milano, both with ebony boards. So, the two usual questions: Any dealings with this company, and any comments on either make? I know they're both Asian student instruments; the Milano, for about $100 more, says it's made in Beijing in a dry climate, so the wood is well-dried before construction... seems perfectly legitimate and worthwhile, but you tell me. I'd also pay the extra $90 or so for a decent in-store setup.

Absolute HARD budget limit is $900 including bow, setup, shipping, etc. Grateful for any help, except for "Dude, for just $200 more you can get..." because that just isn't an option.

Thanks...


John

[PB+J]

I totally sympathize with the budget issue. Totally. But a new double bass for 6oo bucks--I just can't believe it'll be anything but excruciating, especially if she's already been playing for three years. I'd buy it if I could try it first, and it passed muster, but sight unseen? I'd be very nervous

Rather than take a leap on a bass you can't try, can you look around for a used bass? Maybe one of the basses the school owns? Would the school sell you one of the basses she's been playing? Are there other schools nearby you could try? I think you're better off looking for a used bass, like say a used englehardt. Musiciansfriend will sell you a brand new engle Em-1 for $1000 bucks, so you ought to be able to find a used one in your range. I played an EM-1 for years and sold it for under your budget. It's a solid, dependable workhorse

Don't get me wrong--the basses you're looking at might be fine. If a new englee, made in the US, sells for $1000 than the chinese can no doubt make an equivalent bass for much less. But there's all sorts of basses coming out of China, from unplayable junk to first rate instruments. I would try the local used market if possible

Good luck!

[Heifetzbass]

Hackster,

I am a public school teacher in upstate, SC. I would like to help you with this situation. In the past, I have had some students buy instruments sight unseen and usually end up putting a lot more money into the set up than they had budgeted. I don't know about these particular instruments or dealer, but I do know all the locals.

PM me if you would like to speak more freely about the situation.

FWIW
Brian

[joel kelsey]

Hi,
Is there a Sam Ash or Guitar Center in your area? In your price range you could find something at a Sam Ash that you could try first. I just bought a backup bass from there for 500 dollars (for playing jazz/rock outdoors and in dive bars). It has an ebony fingerboard and an adjustable bridge, as well as a carved top. The reason why it was so cheap was because it had a couple little holes and scratches on it (not on the top). I spent 100 dollars on a setup and hole repair and 140 dollars on new strings and the bass sounds surprisingly good. As mentioned before, cheap chinese basses are all made differently, some sounding and playing a lot better than others so it is veery important to play before you buy. The "scratch and dent" bass I bought had a MUCH nicer finger board and was much better sounding than floor model, even though they were the same bass with the same strings. But, you always get what you pay for like crappy tuners, horrible endpin, and a subpar bridge. If your daughter is playing in the orchestra a chinese hybrid MIGHT be nicer than an old plywood. My Scam Cash bass has a nicer arco tone than my old Kay, but for jazz I would take an old ply bass in a heart beat. I would suggest playing as many basses as you can before you buy one. I would be VERY nervous about ordering a cheap bass sight unseen. Good luck.

[LouisF]

I've posted this on other threads (I think about bluegrass basses and the CCB discussions) I know Tom at FMI (he's in Pasadena, I live in LA). I bought a couple of his student basses for schools - they're solid, and will probably serve you well BUT they will need to be set up (the necks are thick, action high etc) or your child will eventually get HURT playing bass.

So yes, the basses are decent and Tom is honest, but you WILL (probably) have to spend a couple of hundred bucks somewhere down the line to get the bass properly set up.

If the budget is tight, I would save the $100 on the Milano/Merano distinction and spend on the set up when you get the bass

Louis

[drurb]

Originally Posted by joel kelsey

Hi,
Is there a Sam Ash or Guitar Center in your area? In your price range you could find something at a Sam Ash that you could try first. I just bought a backup bass from there for 500 dollars (for playing jazz/rock outdoors and in dive bars). It has an ebony fingerboard and an adjustable fingerboard, as well as a carved top.

An adjustable fingerboard? Carved top for $500? Is it wood?

[joel kelsey]

Originally Posted by drurb

An adjustable fingerboard? Carved top for $500? Is it wood?

Sorry, i meant adjustable bridge and ebony fingerboard.....500 bucks it appears to be wood....Don't get me wrong, it is not a good bass, the top is really shiny and slick so the bridge can be pushed around really easily and the endpin does not pull out all of the way so I can't put a wheel on it. It sounds OK....I guess. Can't go wrong for 500 bucks. It is called a Carlo Robelli bass and they even gave me a fiberglass german bow with it! The bass had/has several little annoying problems with it, but after the setup it is decent. They normally sell this bass for a grand wich I thought was a little steep. 500 bucks, it plays.................

[charmicarmicat]

Originally Posted by joel kelsey

Sorry, i meant adjustable bridge and ebony fingerboard.....500 bucks it appears to be wood....Don't get me wrong, it is not a good bass, the top is really shiny and slick so the bridge can be pushed around really easily and the endpin does not pull out all of the way so I can't put a wheel on it. It sounds OK....I guess. Can't go wrong for 500 bucks. It is called a Carlo Robelli bass and they even gave me a fiberglass german bow with it! The bass had/has several little annoying problems with it, but after the setup it is decent. They normally sell this bass for a grand wich I thought was a little steep. 500 bucks, it plays.................

i guess you gotta start somewhere. make sure you get it set up as best as it possibly can be set up by a pro luthier or your daughter WILL injure herself. and considering health care costs...

[Hackster]

On the few occasions I've posted to Talkbass with questions, there's never been a lack of good, experienced advice, and I really appreciate it. To address a few issues that y'all have raised...

Yeah, I agree, buying a cheap instrument, sight unseen, is a *big* pig in a poke. Just for a little background, I'm a hack electric player for some thirty-plus years now, a pawn-shop enthusiast, and a big believer in buying used. Unfortunately, 'round here in the upstate of South Carolina, the used market for any violin-family student instruments bigger than a violin is virtually nonexistent. The closest thing we have to a Sam Ash is a Guitar Center in the next town over, about 30 miles, and of course they don't handle orchestral instruments. I'd love nothing more than to find a decent used bass that she could try before we buy, but they just ain't out there. In my particular area, it's almost impossible to find a bass to rent, let alone a used one for sale, at least in my pitiful price range.

The quality of mass-produced import guitars and basses has gotten real good in recent years, and I guess I want to be optimistic that the same could be true for a student-grade upright bass. When my son, the drummer, wanted to try electric guitar for his birthday a couple years ago, the lefty Rondo strat copy I bought him off the web for around $125 was a remarkably well-made and very usable student instrument. Of course, the electronics were cheesy, the hardware was a bit flimsy, and it needed a BASIC setup, but the build quality of the wood itself was quite presentable. The OLP Tony Levin signature 5-string I bought a year or so ago when I needed a five to supplement my '78 Stingray for gigging was an absolute delight for $325 shipped, hardware and electronics shortcomings notwithstanding.

If I wind up buying from FMI, I'm prepared to pay his $90 charge for orchestral setup. The thing that worries me is the bit on his site that advises that if he finds significant fingerboard problems while doing the $90 bridge setup, it'll be an additional $175 to work the fingerboard. To my thinking, if the fingerboard needs $175 worth of fretboard work that isn't evident until the bridge setup is underway, the dealer ought to pull a different instrument from stock and start over. I don't like the idea of being locked into an instrument purchased brand-new that *might* have significant problems that won't be evident until the initial setup begins-- and if it does, fixing it is on my dime. I've emailed FMI with a couple other questions and haven't heard back yet.

Brian from SC, thanks for the offer, and please check your PM's. Everyone else, thanks again for the feedback. I really appreciate it.

[charmicarmicat]

Originally Posted by Hackster

On the few occasions I've posted to Talkbass with questions, there's never been a lack of good, experienced advice, and I really appreciate it. To address a few issues that y'all have raised...

Yeah, I agree, buying a cheap instrument, sight unseen, is a *big* pig in a poke. Just for a little background, I'm a hack electric player for some thirty-plus years now, a pawn-shop enthusiast, and a big believer in buying used. Unfortunately, 'round here in the upstate of South Carolina, the used market for any violin-family student instruments bigger than a violin is virtually nonexistent. The closest thing we have to a Sam Ash is a Guitar Center in the next town over, about 30 miles, and of course they don't handle orchestral instruments. I'd love nothing more than to find a decent used bass that she could try before we buy, but they just ain't out there. In my particular area, it's almost impossible to find a bass to rent, let alone a used one for sale, at least in my pitiful price range.

The quality of mass-produced import guitars and basses has gotten real good in recent years, and I guess I want to be optimistic that the same could be true for a student-grade upright bass. When my son, the drummer, wanted to try electric guitar for his birthday a couple years ago, the lefty Rondo strat copy I bought him off the web for around $125 was a remarkably well-made and very usable student instrument. Of course, the electronics were cheesy, the hardware was a bit flimsy, and it needed a BASIC setup, but the build quality of the wood itself was quite presentable. The OLP Tony Levin signature 5-string I bought a year or so ago when I needed a five to supplement my '78 Stingray for gigging was an absolute delight for $325 shipped, hardware and electronics shortcomings notwithstanding.

If I wind up buying from FMI, I'm prepared to pay his $90 charge for orchestral setup. The thing that worries me is the bit on his site that advises that if he finds significant fingerboard problems while doing the $90 bridge setup, it'll be an additional $175 to work the fingerboard. To my thinking, if the fingerboard needs $175 worth of fretboard work that isn't evident until the bridge setup is underway, the dealer ought to pull a different instrument from stock and start over. I don't like the idea of being locked into an instrument purchased brand-new that *might* have significant problems that won't be evident until the initial setup begins-- and if it does, fixing it is on my dime. I've emailed FMI with a couple other questions and haven't heard back yet.

Brian from SC, thanks for the offer, and please check your PM's. Everyone else, thanks again for the feedback. I really appreciate it.

i too believe in buying used (got my three gibson victory basses for about $300.00 each) and i too agree that cheap electric instruments have become better and better. but i can tell you that there's no comparison between a used upright, a cheap chinese upright, a used electric bass and a cheap $200.00 knock off of a fender bass. the cheap electronic on a electric instrument can be changed quite easily by someone who has basic knowledge, a screwdriver, some tin and soldering iron. on an upright bass most work is just not that easy and is better handled by a pro. i would suggest to check this link for luthiers in your general area. a couple of hours drive may save you both some heartache. you never know what one of them may have in their shed good luck to you and your little girl
http://www.gollihur.com/kkbass/luthiers.html

[philip sirois]

Originally Posted by Hackster

The quality of mass-produced import guitars and basses has gotten real good in recent years, and I guess I want to be optimistic that the same could be true for a student-grade upright bass. When my son, the drummer, wanted to try electric guitar for his birthday a couple years ago, the lefty Rondo strat copy I bought him off the web for around $125 was a remarkably well-made and very usable student instrument. Of course, the electronics were cheesy, the hardware was a bit flimsy, and it needed a BASIC setup, but the build quality of the wood itself was quite presentable. The OLP Tony Levin signature 5-string I bought a year or so ago when I needed a five to supplement my '78 Stingray for gigging was an absolute delight for $325 shipped, hardware and electronics shortcomings notwithstanding.

Your optimism is not well founded in this case. Basses are a different animal all together. It's kind of like saying that since I once bought a decent cheap guitar for $90 I should be able to get a good student piano tuned and setup for $300. Apples and oranges my friend.

[/quote]
If I wind up buying from FMI, I'm prepared to pay his $90 charge for orchestral setup. The thing that worries me is the bit on his site that advises that if he finds significant fingerboard problems while doing the $90 bridge setup, it'll be an additional $175 to work the fingerboard. To my thinking, if the fingerboard needs $175 worth of fretboard work that isn't evident until the bridge setup is underway, the dealer ought to pull a different instrument from stock and start over. I don't like the idea of being locked into an instrument purchased brand-new that *might* have significant problems that won't be evident until the initial setup begins-- and if it does, fixing it is on my dime. I've emailed FMI with a couple other questions and haven't heard back yet.[/quote]

this is why you buy a bass from a qualified luthier who will stand by his product. Especially if you don't know much about it to begin with. How exactly would you know if the things been setup properly if you have no experience with a well set up bass? If youre gonna bother to play this instrument you have to be prepared to pay for a decent instrument, with a THOROUGH setup period. Most fingerboards, even those on fine instuments are going to require a dressing right out of the gate. On the instruments you mention it would be a miracle if they didn't.

It's obvious that the reason he's selling these for cheap, it that he's getting them cheap then sending it to you right out of the box. I'll guarantee that this thing needs more than that $90 setup. Plus I'm sure the strings suck(this is huge and eaxpensive). So even though you didn't want to hear it:

Dude, spend a little more and get something nicer from someone who knows about basses. You can always sell a quality instrument for fairly close to what you paid for it.
These cheapies? Good luck.

[PB+J]

I'm going to disagree with Phillip--I think Hackster is right, although these basses may not be the ones he's imagining. When I was a kid (30 years ago) a starter guitar was a terrible thing--strings a mile off the board, uneven frets, bad fit and finish dead, uneven tone, etc. I have a chinese made blueridge guitar, a copy of a Martin OM, and its sounds great, plays easily, and is well finished. I paid around $300 for it new. Ask any older player, and they'll tell you--a beginner instrument today is worlds away from a beginner instrument 30-40 years ago, and why? Better production technology, and of course, cheaper international labor (another subject altogether). The simple point is, there's been a revolution in the quality of entry level instruments.

It might not be the guitar of my dreams, but it's not holding me back. There's nothing "wrong" with it and indeed I've played guitars costing four times as much or even more that I didn't like better. So if it can be done with guitars, why not with basses? I've seen entry level archtop guitars that are as good as anything Gibson cranks out. Yes, the materials costs and shipping costs for a bass will be higher. But otherwise? And as I mentioned, a brand new Englehardt can be had for less than 1000 bucks. I had one and it paid for itself many times over beforee I sold it to buy a better bass. If Elkhardt Indiana can make a servicable, playable, reliable ply bass for 1000, surely the Chinese can do it for less? That's Hackster's argument

[philip sirois]

But guitars are different on many levels as you know, PB.

Sure chinese basses are getting better. But It still cost $1400
or so to get a decent one new, setup well.

I guess what I'm ultimately getting at is that If I had a 13-14 girl who was serious about playing an instrument, was going to take lessons, play in an orchestra, and practice every day, would I buy her one of these crappy basses for 600 bucks, put 125 bucks into strings(yes you will need new strings, hackster) 200-300 into a marginal setup, or would I save my milk money and buy something like, for instance, a sb80 shen from a fine luthier like nick lloyd who can guide you , answer your questions, and stand behind his work for $1380, nice setup, fingerboard planed, well fit soundpost, quality adjustable bridge, nice strings, decent gigbag, bow and rosin, ready to rock? http://www.nicklloydbasses.com/ I don't think there a contest here.
This just an example, Many of the other fine luthiers on the board have similar deals, some even have free shipping.

Hackster is of course free to do whatever he wants. I know the price is compelling, and that he would like for it to be a solid student instrument that doesn't break the bank. I'm just saying that I have doubts that it's a prudent move on his part.

[Hackster]

Thanks, Philip and PBJ. Philip, believe me, I hear you, and I agree with you 100% about the importance of the quality issue. And I realize that there are very real differences between orchestral instruments and guitars, even acoustics. Your solution would be a great one, except that it costs 50% more than my very real, very finite budget, and that just isn't likely to change in the near future.

At this point I'm about 50-50 on the mail order instrument. The fact that, two days later, I still haven't gotten a reply from my email to the dealer, concerns me, maybe most of all. Another Talkbass member and orchestral player/teacher in this area has graciously offered to help try to locate something locally, and I've taken him up on it. We'll see. Thanks again, everybody.

[TSP]

Looking for good stuff, particularly second-hand, sounds like a good idea - I'd expect it should be possible to find something, though it may take a while. A used Engelhardt or similar sounds like a decent bet - here's one on sale (though not near you) at $900, and here's one on eBay with a 'buy it now' of $800, so that's clearly not an impossible price to aim at or below.

[philip sirois]

I think talking to as many people as possible is the way to get this done. Be patient and diligent and something will turn up.
How about renting to own? A lot of people have had good luck with this.

I know you say, hackster, that my example is 50% more than your budget. My point is that the merano is going to cost you more than your budget as well, whether you realize it or not.
The strings that come on it are guaranteed useless, the bridge is most probably junk and the fingerbord is going to be iffy. For an adult who knows what their getting into those can be overcome, I guess. But for a kid trying to learn, a cheap ill setup bass is a major impediment. So to get this thing setup with playable strings is gonna cost you more than you think.
Hell, to get a nice bass playing well is expensive.
And in the end you don't have something that will last your daughter through high school. It just isn't a good deal for your needs. The only reason we don't have 100 TBers agreeing with me is that theyre sick of this whole scenario. Talk to the guy from your neck of the woods and let him, if he's willing, guide you a bit.

Best of luck.

[Michael Case]

http://www.bassesonline.com

Look at the Roma basses.

[Hackster]

Originally Posted by mike da mook

http://www.bassesonline.com

Look at the Roma basses.

Wow... Unfortunately the least expensive Romas are sold out, but the low-end Eberle *might* be do-able depending on shipping. The included set-up sounds a lot better, with fingerboard planing included, etc.

Any testimonials from anybody on these?

Thanx...

[TSP]

Try here, or use the search function to search for 'Eberle'. People seem to be saying good things about them.

Note that shipping isn't included, though, so ring them for a quote and take this into account.