Anyone ever play a Song Tie Ji bass?

JDFlow · #1 07-25-2011, 09:49 AM

I'm looking at buying my first upright and am leaning toward a Shen SB80 with the Upton setup. But I recently saw a song tie ji on eBay. It looks beautiful and is carved for only $600! What are your thoughts?

RSBBass · #2 07-25-2011, 10:01 AM

I can give you a fellow beginner's perspective. I have a Shen SB80 from Upton. It is a solid instrument with a decent setup. In my first ten months it has never held me back. When I have had a couple of professionals play it (my teacher [you do plan to get a teacher, right?] and a friend) I have been very happy with how it sounds. They have liked it.

There a multiple threads on cheap Chinese basses (CCB's) here on Talkbass. Check them out. To summarize what I have read, they are produced under many different names. While you may get a usable instrument, the chances are you will not. Even if it is usable it will not have a setup which will cost you a fair amount of your "savings". E-bay is even more risky than going to a store were you can at least look at the bass.

drurb · #3 07-25-2011, 10:02 AM

A "carved" bass for $600 from an unknown maker on eBay? Stick with the Shen.

ole Jason · #4 07-25-2011, 10:14 AM

Get a Shen

chris1125 · #5 07-25-2011, 10:33 AM

Why don't you ask the guys at upton which one you should get?

I only say that because if you look at there YouTube channel theres a couple of videos from a couple of years ago on imported work quality. They are quite the interesting rants for lack of a better word lol

PaulCannon · #6 07-25-2011, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDFlow

I recently saw a song tie ji on eBay. It looks beautiful and is carved for only $600! What are your thoughts?

You get what you pay for.

JDFlow · #7 07-25-2011, 03:33 PM

@RSBbass the Shen is my first choice but I figured if I could find good reviews on the Song Tie Ji it could be an excellent deal. I've played electric bass for 14 years but do plan to get an instructor for the first month or so just to learn proper technique and care. I've always wanted an upright but haven't had the money readily available and refuse to go the credit route for an instrument. When I saw the Shen modestly priced a $1450 with the pro setup my heart nearly melted. If I fall in love with the instrument the way I think I will then I'll go the credit route in the future when/if I've outgrown the Shen. Also, how loud is it acoustically? I've just started looking and haven't been to any shops to play it yet.

Dave Irwin · #8 07-25-2011, 05:10 PM

I'd hold out for a used Shen sb100or better. They come around often enough.

good luck,
Dave

RSBBass · #9 07-25-2011, 08:09 PM

I have been playing electric for over 30 years. I think I will be taking lessons for a long long time. The switch over is much harder than I thought it would be but very rewarding.

My Shen is fairly loud but keep in mind I am a beginner. I take lessons on a fully carved bass at my teacher's. For pizz I would say the volume is about the same. With a bow the carved bass is louder.

JDFlow · #10 07-25-2011, 11:35 PM

Interesting. I didn't expect the change to be easy, but I've messed around on uprights and felt fairly comfortable. Now I'm more excited...new territory!

drurb · #11 07-26-2011, 08:20 AM

One of the most important aspects in buying a bass is the setup. Solidly built and reliable entry-level basses like the Shens can be set up to play very easily (that's not necessarily true of cheapo basses). In fact, one could argue that at the entry-level price-points, it's more about the playability and setup than about the quality of the sound. By that I mean that an entry-level ply is simply not going to have an impressive sound among the population of all double basses but it sure could have a fine setup and be easy to play.

For a player new to DB, the setup is also even more important than to an experienced player. An experienced player can compensate in all sorts of ways for a less-than-desirable setup whereas that's the last thing a newbie wants when learning the instrument.

My advice is to choose a decently built entry-level instrument set up by a good luthier in a real bass shop. It seems like you've already found that.

MIKMAN · #12 07-27-2011, 10:26 AM

One of my students bought a violin of this maker through e-Bay. It was a mediocre instrument with poor fingerboard dressing. When i tried to unglue it i found that it was glued with a chemical glue, something quite common among many Chinese makers. To make a long story short i had to plane the fingerboard in order to replace it. I asked the makers (through e-Bay) if they use hide glue or animal glue in their instruments, particularly in their double basses, and they responded saying that they use only "commercial glue" because it is "very strong". You can understand what you can expect from these instruments. From the other hand Samuel Shen is a well established luthier and his instruments are well supported by many luthiers in USA, most of them performing excellent set ups on Shen double basses. Well, the choice is yours!

E.P. Miller · #13 07-28-2011, 07:53 PM

It looks as though the Song basses on eBay are made from some incredibly beautiful materials. The woods appear highly figured. Perhaps the real tradgedy is that these instruments simply won't be around very long due to poor construction, and that otherwise beautiful wood will have been wasted.

JDFlow · #14 07-29-2011, 12:36 AM

Well I had my choice all figured out. I was going for an Upton Standard Double Bass. It was a little over my budget but still within my means and it would allow me to get an excellent bass made here in America. I called them today to get a quote with shipping and they told me for now they have suspended production of that model and the next model up is $3400

I really had my heart set on that bass. Looks like I'll be going with the SB80 now.

MIKMAN · #15 07-29-2011, 04:17 AM

Dear TBDB friends i inform you that a fellow bassist has ordered the unvarnished model of the Song Tie Ji basses via e-Bay, which will come with the neck unglued. I'll glue the neck, varnish the bass and perform the set up, so after all this work i'll be in a position to comment for the quality of this specific instrument. I'll keep you posted.
Mike

PaulCannon · #16 07-29-2011, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDFlow

Well I had my choice all figured out. I was going for an Upton Standard Double Bass. It was a little over my budget but still within my means and it would allow me to get an excellent bass made here in America. I called them today to get a quote with shipping and they told me for now they have suspended production of that model and the next model up is $3400

I really had my heart set on that bass. Looks like I'll be going with the SB80 now.

Shipping, eh? Where are you located?

damonsmith · #17 07-29-2011, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drurb

A "carved" bass for $600 from an unknown maker on eBay? Stick with the Shen.

I would agree, except that $600 is low enough to deal with some BS, and even if it works OK for a few years, it could be a disposable intstrument that works great to get started.
All I am saying is that questionable carved basses and plys really need to be this cheap.

swingingoodtime · #18 07-29-2011, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E.P. Miller

It looks as though the Song basses on eBay are made from some incredibly beautiful materials. The woods appear highly figured. Perhaps the real tradgedy is that these instruments simply won't be around very long due to poor construction, and that otherwise beautiful wood will have been wasted.

JDFlow: Don't forget (as has been mentioned in many a CCB-thread before this) that although the Chinese have access to some incredibly beautiful woods, in the rush to market, the wood is often not seasoned properly and ends up splitting as it dries out & shrinks over time. The repair costs (if it's at all possible), on top of the initial cost, plus potentially the extra costs of setting-up a poor instrument (compared to that of a decent bass), would likely be considerably more than just getting a decent instrument to begin with.

We've all been in the: "Oh wow, wouldn't it be great if I got a wonder-instrument for a bargain price?" place, but the reality is that you get what you pay for. Yes, buying cheap & gradually spending on the instrument amortises the costs over time, but you'll very likely just end up wasting decent coin that you could have saved for a bit longer up front and got a really nice instrument that's a joy to play, rather than some dog that just makes you feel sick to the core with regret every time you look at it (let alone struggle to play).

It's also not like you have to spend thousands more to get a decent bass; be patient, save up & get a Shen or similar for $1k - $1k4 that has stood the test of time & use by your peers in this great forum; you won't regret it.

And consider yourself lucky; $1.4k buys absolute rubbish down here...

drurb · #19 07-29-2011, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by damonsmith

I would agree, except that $600 is low enough to deal with some BS, and even if it works OK for a few years, it could be a disposable intstrument that works great to get started.
All I am saying is that questionable carved basses and plys really need to be this cheap.

Agreed, if and only if, as has been discussed in the CCB threads, the buyer is willing to take on substantial adjustments and/or modifications in a DIY fashion and deal with the inevitable ongoing issues. Furthermore, such a buyer must be willing to accept that the instrument will not sound all that good and judge all of this to be an acceptable tradeoff for spending so little. I generally assume that buyers are not willing to do that but perhaps I should include that as a disclaimer when I post advice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by swingingoodtime

JDFlow: Don't forget (as has been mentioned in many a CCB-thread before this) that although the Chinese have access to some incredibly beautiful woods, in the rush to market, the wood is often not seasoned properly and ends up splitting as it dries out & shrinks over time. The repair costs (if it's at all possible), on top of the initial cost, plus potentially the extra costs of setting-up a poor instrument (compared to that of a decent bass), would likely be considerably more than just getting a decent instrument to begin with.

We've all been in the: "Oh wow, wouldn't it be great if I got a wonder-instrument for a bargain price?" place, but the reality is that you get what you pay for. Yes, buying cheap & gradually spending on the instrument amortises the costs over time, but you'll very likely just end up wasting decent coin that you could have saved for a bit longer up front and got a really nice instrument that's a joy to play, rather than some dog that just makes you feel sick to the core with regret every time you look at it (let alone struggle to play).

It's also not like you have to spend thousands more to get a decent bass; be patient, save up & get a Shen or similar for $1k - $1k4 that has stood the test of time & use by your peers in this great forum; you won't regret it.

And consider yourself lucky; $1.4k buys absolute rubbish down here...

+1!!!

damonsmith · #20 07-29-2011, 12:42 PM

I am kind of for any REAL cheap bass that plays. What I advise against is spending close or the same on a plywood bass when you can get a carved instrument.
$600 is pretty easy for even low income people to squirrel together. Even those of us who actually have a few grand at one time (not me!) it is often destined for other things.

I would advise against it if you CAN afford a more reputable instrument.