The bass that spoiled me for all other basses

Fatso · #1 11-22-2006, 07:49 PM

I've been playing a Chinese ply bass since Feb and have been looking to up grade to a solid wood around the AU$5-7K mark to get me through college. I've played a lot of basses in that price range and found a Gliga and a Chinese bass that I thought would suit me - but wanted to keep looking, just to make sure. So i started playing the antique basses $10k - nice, $15k - really nice, $20k - praise the Lord that is the sound! Big, loud, lovely sound and so comfortable to play. I played the So What head and got goosebumps. Then I went back to the gliga....

Now, I'm not a tone boffin, I'm not obsessive but I'm struggling see the point in uprading to a bass that I'll be 25% happy playing now that I know what a bass should sound like.

I'm sure I'm not alone in this delema...

Does anyone have any helpful philosphies in this regard?

bribass · #2 11-22-2006, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fatso

I've been playing a Chinese ply bass since Feb and have been looking to up grade to a solid wood around the AU$5-7K mark to get me through college. I've played a lot of basses in that price range and found a Gliga and a Chinese bass that I thought would suit me - but wanted to keep looking, just to make sure. So i started playing the antique basses $10k - nice, $15k - really nice, $20k - praise the Lord that is the sound! Big, loud, lovely sound and so comfortable to play. I played the So What head and got goosebumps. Then I went back to the gliga....

Now, I'm not a tone boffin, I'm not obsessive but I'm struggling see the point in uprading to a bass that I'll be 25% happy playing now that I know what a bass should sound like.

I'm sure I'm not alone in this delema...

Does anyone have any helpful philosphies in this regard?

Well, it's like w/ fine wines, once you taste the good stuff, almost everything else is swill

. But now atleast you know what the ideal is and hopefully you'll know it when you find something that's better than you would expect in a given price range. Maybe you should hold off and keep saving up while searching, searching, searching for a deal on something NOICE (nice!). Tell eveyone you know that may know of something for sale or will be for sale. Now that you know what really good is you can search out a bass that a private owner is selling rather than a shop. More foot work and no selection like the shop, but most probably a better deal. Be patient. It may take awhile to find that special bass being sold by (hopefully) a motivated seller.
FWIW- I was able to afford my c.1820's Prescott because it is a great playing instrument and not a museum piece specimen. It has been thru its share of serious repairs, many, many top crack repairs and patches, rib lining, bass bar and back brace replacement, overvarnish, on and on. So it's not winning any "Pristine Old Bass" beauty contests, but the sound is KILLER and all luthiers who have seen it say restoration work was done really well.
So a restored oldie w/ cosmetic problems may keep the price down a bit, but becareful and get opinions from pro luthiers. Most sellers will let the instrument out on trial.
Hope this helps, BG

Fatso · #3 11-23-2006, 12:15 AM

Wise words - thanks BG.

Have any of you guys ever sold something, for example, your house, to buy a bass?

**Matthew Tucker** · #4 11-23-2006, 05:51 AM

I sold my 1963 spanish racing motorbike to buy my bass.

Compared to the USA and Europe, there is a limited range of "noice" basses for sale in Sydney so you should probably consider Melbourne in your hunt for a better bass, too.

Fatso · #5 11-23-2006, 07:08 PM

Great! Any excuse to go to Melbourne!

Bass dealers are not notorious for web savy advertising though. Do you have the names of a few shops down there?

I find it difficult to gage the differences in basses unless played in identical acoustic enviroments. Is this something I'll get better at and are there any tecniques I could use like pressing an ear against the wood, feeling the vibrations with my hands or just taking every bass outside to test?

**Matthew Tucker** · #6 11-23-2006, 07:27 PM

I'm not saying there aren't any nice basses in Sydney, or that there will be better basses in Melbourne, just that if you are prepared to spend $20000 on a bass you should cast your net as wide as you can! But you won't find many double bass-specialists here - its just too low a demand

http://www.thebassshop.com/
http://www.benedictgpuglisi.com/
http://www.bassworks.com.au/

labravajazz · #7 11-27-2006, 05:00 PM

Just out of curiosity did you try the cleveland New Standard which is in the Bass Shop? Interesting comparison to be made with solid wood basses in same price range. Arguably bigger sound and easy playability ....

ArenW · #8 11-27-2006, 05:55 PM

If possible, take your teacher or another player along with you when you are shopping. When I bought my last bass my teacher went along with me, which was a huge help. I was able to play and listen. It really helped me narrow down my choices. From there I took the instrument home to kick the tires before I bought it.

Fatso · #9 11-28-2006, 05:43 PM

Just out of curiosity did you try the cleveland New Standard which is in the Bass Shop?

I don't think so - I go there about once a week to play basses so I'll ask her about that one next time I'm there.

Silversorcerer · #10 11-29-2006, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fatso

Wise words - thanks BG.

Have any of you guys ever sold something, for example, your house, to buy a bass?

Last year I sold a piece of investment property and bought 2 Jens Ritters, which are worth about $20K together. The $$ went a lot further than that, but my thinking was that the value of the real estate had maxed out. The value of the Ritters will continue to go up. And I still have a house, and I get to play the Ritters. If I hadn't already recently purchased a Kremona 5-string 4/4, which is a true pleasure to play, I might have sprung for something like one of those Wilfer or Pollmann basses Lemur offers. It is plausible that a bass could be as good an investment as a house, but you do have to have somewhere to keep the bass and do your rehearsing. Just look at your total budget and assets and adjust your priorities. There is generally a way to make a few sacrifices and get what you want.

I'm not some rich fat cat, either. That real estate deal was probably the windfall of my life, and sure, I like to play nice instruments and I truly regard them as investments, not expenditures. Unlike the real estate, if I ever sell the Ritters I won't suffer the cap gains tax. So while it sounds like some emotional impetuous foolishness to sell a house and buy a bass, it could be looked at as a smart investment decision if you buy the right bass and still have somewhere to live. It is definitely not insanity to do such a thing if you are a bass player.

Considering all though, I would not put myself into debt to buy a musical instrument. But there are probably many who could live comfortably in a more modest home and really enjoy a better playing and sounding bass.

Fatso · #11 11-29-2006, 03:58 AM

That's interesting. I'm probably not going to be in the market for investment basses for a few years but this sort of knowledge will also help me identify a good deal for the bass I want to work with now.

Purely from a investment perspective, what is a good age for a bass to be if you were looking for a 10 - 20 year investment? Do you get 10% when it turns 100?

Most of the really nice basses I've come accross have undergone restorations. Are these less likely to increase in value?

Or...is a basss' market value directly proportionate to its' sound?

billyfalconer · #12 11-29-2006, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fatso

Or...is a basss' market value directly proportionate to its' sound?

You'd think that sound, playability, appearance, and structural soundness would be what would determine a bass's investment value, but there are some psychological components. A common factor inflating a bass's value is its having been owned by a famous player. Another factor is its country of origin or its alleged maker. Simple age is another.

If you had two basses with identical sound, but one was 150 years older than the other, owned by Bottesini, and made in Italy, then it would probably go for several times the other, and would probably hold that value over time.

toman · #13 11-29-2006, 03:30 PM

I'll go and play the old basses at various shops, and friends' basses, all costing 20, 30, 40k, and I get jealous and start dreaming up ways of getting that kind of money. Then I hear a real pro play my China bass or someone's plywood and realize that there's no need for me to spend that kind of money. There's plenty of untapped tone in my hands, and I don't see it all coming out for some time, if ever. I mean, sure, if I had the money laying around I'd buy the best bass I could get my hands on, but I don't, so I quit worrying about it. All that said, I still enjoy playing basses in shops or borrowing a friend's fine instrument from time to time.

Silversorcerer · #14 11-30-2006, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toman

I'll go and play the old basses at various shops, and friends' basses, all costing 20, 30, 40k, and I get jealous and start dreaming up ways of getting that kind of money. Then I hear a real pro play my China bass or someone's plywood and realize that there's no need for me to spend that kind of money. There's plenty of untapped tone in my hands, and I don't see it all coming out for some time, if ever. I mean, sure, if I had the money laying around I'd buy the best bass I could get my hands on, but I don't, so I quit worrying about it. All that said, I still enjoy playing basses in shops or borrowing a friend's fine instrument from time to time.

That's the right spirit! My first DB was a plywood-not-so-good one and I played it and gigged with it. Before that, I used a one string washtub for acoustic bass. It's good to get something to work with that fits your budget so you can get started learning to play.

Fatso · #15 11-30-2006, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silversorcerer

That's the right spirit! My first DB was a plywood-not-so-good one and I played it and gigged with it. Before that, I used a one string washtub for acoustic bass. It's good to get something to work with that fits your budget so you can get started learning to play.

Yes, I'm coming around to that way of thinking also. I just haven't found a bass within my budget that has a decent sounding E string. Most have sweet sounding A string and D string, but quiet, uninspiring E. Anyway, it seems that that's just something I'll have to learn to work with because you don't seem to get a big E for under AU$20K. I'm going to keep looking for now.

Does and new solid wood bass really have the ability to warm up after a couple of years?

labravajazz · #16 11-30-2006, 02:56 AM

Thats where a Cleveland can rank better than many similar priced solid basses imho. Each string sounds big and full .......

Ben Rolston · #17 11-30-2006, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by labravajazz

Thats where a Cleveland can rank better than many similar priced solid basses imho. Each string sounds big and full .......

Yes Sir

dfp · #18 11-30-2006, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fatso

Wise words - thanks BG.

Have any of you guys ever sold something, for example, your house, to buy a bass?

No. but i did sell my New Standard Cleveland and a F-Bass BN5 to help pay for my European honeymoon. for my work (pop, jazz) i sound better than ever on a old (but well set-up) German ply and stock Fenders... and my wife and i had the trip of a lifetime... that's my philosophy, good luck with your search

Silversorcerer · #19 11-30-2006, 11:09 AM

Once in a while a romantic fool comes along.... And once in a great while the sacrifices are worth it. Did she let you check out any of the cool DB shops over there during the trip??? Oh, that's right, it was a honeymoon. Never mind.

blindeddie · #20 11-30-2006, 11:31 AM

i don't think i could ever let myself spend more than 10k on a bass. not when you see incredible professionals like Ron Carter and Christian McBride playing Juzeks. you can get those for 5k and have them set-up to sound fantastic. and when you rough them up from heavy usage, you don't feel so bad about it. alot of the great records were made with practical instruments, and a good set-up can go along way. i think i'd rather be a great player with an "O.K." instrument, than have this incredible pedigree instrument, and still be playing at a student level.