Bass started to split apart where the two pieces of the sound board are glued...

HAM · #1 06-07-2010, 09:02 PM

I purchased a Christopher 602 upright bass a year ago. It is a beautiful sounding bass and I had it set up low action. I just noticed that it has started to split apart right where the two pieces of the sound board are glued together. It has started from the bottom up as the picture illustrates.

I am in the Chicagoland area and am wondering if someone has 1) seen this happen before, 2) where would I find someone to work on this before it continues up the whole front of the sound board and 3) any idea how much this would cost to repair (approximate).

Also, what would this kind of repair entail?

Really appreciate any input you can provide.

Thanks guys!

standupright · #2 06-07-2010, 09:05 PM

happened on mine (not a christopher) 2 years after i bought it. also mine didn't split at the seam, but on either side of it. when i took it to the luthier, i was quoted between 500 and 1000 depending on if the top needed to be removed to do the repair. before you do anything else....slack the strings and remove the bridge to take pressure off of the top.

HAM · #3 06-07-2010, 10:35 PM

Thanks for the advice... what did you end up doing and what was the final cost for the repare?

Paul Warburton · #4 06-07-2010, 10:40 PM

Can't really give you much of an idea on either of your questions, but I can't help but ask you why you keep a Dampit in your bass in Chicago? With more specific information from you about that.....but, IMO, that could be one of the reasons why you're having a problem like this.
You're basically adding more moisture to the inside of your bass in a humid climate. Couple that with dry heat in your house, apartment or playing venue and......the bass may be being steamed apart. Sorry to say that but i've seen this happen to many basses. (if that's what's going on here).

GerardSamija · #5 06-08-2010, 11:45 AM

If you can find a luthier in your area who will do through-the-f-hole repairs, and do them well, it may be relatively inexpensive to get this seam stabilized. I use a cheap wireless camera (less than $30 on eBay including receiver and cable to connect to a monitor. There are loads of models available, but only a couple small enough to go in through the f-hole or endpin hole. You can search under 'spy camera' or similar search terms. A recent model is actually slim enough to put into most 'cello f-holes. Lighting up the interior with a USB notebook light (10 bright LEDs on a gooseneck, connected to a long power supply wire) makes for a fairly clear image on a monitor of anything inside a bass. I hang basses upside-down from my workshop ceiling to work on the inside of the belly. For an open seam on a modest bass like this, such an approach makes a lot of sense.

First I'd take down the strings and clean the area, then glue and clamp under a plastic strip to keep the joint level while drying. The next day I'd do the TV/wireless camera thing, using a length of stiff wire to first locate a piece of raw linen cloth over the seam (several for a long break like that - about 2" square patches). Then with a glue brush (left-over bow hair bundled with contact cement and thin wire around the end of a coathanger wire) I'd daub warm hide glue of decent strength into the linen, gradually wetting it all to saturation. Leave it belly-down until the glue is all jelled - not long, as the strength of glue I use for this jells in about 30 seconds, so it's all ready to put aside and dry within a minute of the last application of glue. Drying another day or a bit more should be sufficient to render strong patching which resists re-opening very well.

I've been doing this style of repair for about 12 years now, when time and/or money constraints make it necessary to get cracks (seams or actual breaks) stabilized quickly/cheaply. Of course I used other light sources and used to use mirrors instead of a wireless camera, but those were very frustrating due to the reversed image And since soaking with a hot, wet cloth for a few minutes makes it simple to completely remove the linen patches, there is no harm done in terms of future, proper restorations when time/money allow for the belly being removed. That is, should such surgery be necessary. I've not seen any such patches come loose so far. And from the history of linen's use in crack prevention going back hundreds of years, there's no reason to think such a repair can't last at least a century if well done. Of course any dust or loose slivers should be cleaned out of the way prior to patching, but that's easy enough with a plastic tube mounted to a vacuum cleaner, also through the f-holes.

In general, try to find a solution which is appropriate for your instrument. Massive, disruptive surgery on an economy-model bass is not usually necessary, and when repairs are carried out in ways which offer the possibility of later reversal or improvement it's a financial win for the bassist.

On the dampit subject - yeah, try to avoid them, no matter where you live. A room humidifier, used only when a hygrometer tells you the humidity is below 35% or so, is a much safer way to go. Digital hygrometers go for $20 or so and will accurately tell you the percentage - we have no native sense of humidity, and people are usually far off when guessing. Sunbeam makes some decent humidifiers for under $50. You can save yourself a LOT of money with these two cheap investments.

HAM · #6 06-09-2010, 08:16 PM

Gerard,

WOW, wish you were near... I don't know of anyone in the Chicagoland area who would work this way but I am looking. It is just a heart break to see this happen to a bass built in 2008 or so. I bought it new and it really sound great.

Thanks for your insights... I am sure many will benefit from your communication on this forum.

Best regards,

Hector

GerardSamija · #7 06-09-2010, 08:41 PM

For what it's worth to any luthiers out there interested in performing repairs via an old TV (or a computer with the appropriate input capability, or a portable DVD player, or a nice LCD monitor if you're getting fancy about it), wireless camera and receiver, and long-handled implements, here's a link to a good bit of video hardware for about $50:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/2-4G-Micro-CMOS-M...item335d97ea74

I'm sure the link won't be good for long, but it's a model RC302 receiver with a CM200 camera, or the pair (you need the matching receiver anyway) is packaged as model SV301. There are others, but this is the slimmest camera model I've been able to find so far. Easily mounted to a wire or a gooseneck if you have a slim one of those.

Glad to help, if this is helpful to any luthiers. I don't expect bassists will for the most part have the knowledge and insight to render good repairs using this equipment, but it's a very fine, and cheap, embellishment to existing skills and tools. I used to do this sort of repair using a mirror, like I said, but that can be very frustrating and I'd understand it if most folks wouldn't want to test their sanity with such measures. 'Easier' (though not very healthy for the instrument) to just pull the belly off and charge more.

Perhaps this technology becoming so easily obtained will allow more luthiers to consider less invasive surgery, somewhat like what happened when orthroscopes became available decades ago. Where would knee surgery be today, or many abdominal surgeries, without such equipment? And considering that basses don't bleed out... there's really not a lot of excuses for opening them for every nasty crack. Some of course require major surgery. I have three such basses in the shop now, none of which could have been mended appropriately through the holes. But while those have been in the shop I've repaired dozens of lesser injuries without removing bellies, and those dozens of bassists have got back on the job in very little turn-around time.

fdeck · #8 06-09-2010, 10:53 PM

I have a cheap webcam that would fit through an FF. The ones made for notebook computers tend to be smaller. As a non-luthier, I doubt that I would use it for a repair, but maybe just to check on things.

MR PC · #9 06-10-2010, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HAM

I am in the Chicagoland area and am wondering if someone has 1) seen this happen before, 2) where would I find someone to work on this before it continues up the whole front of the sound board and 3) any idea how much this would cost to repair (approximate).
Thanks guys!

1. yes, seen it happen before.

2. http://www.sonksenstrings.com/home.html

3. Doesn't have to be an overly expensive repair. The up side is that the luthier can go over your bass and check for any other loose fittings.

HAM · #10 06-10-2010, 03:06 AM

Thanks to all who have responded thus far. I am contacting Sonksen Strings but am open to any further suggestions from those who live in the Chicagoland area.

Thanks again!

vejesse · #11 06-10-2010, 05:52 AM

Why don't you contact the party you bought the bass from? Ask them to fix it under warranty.

franzose · #12 06-12-2010, 06:52 AM

Maybe a stupid advice, but if you bouhgt it a year ago, isn't there any waranty on your instrument (assuming you bought it new) ? It could be a faulty seam on the plate, that could justify a repair or a change by Chrsitopher ?

HAM · #13 06-12-2010, 07:33 PM

No stupid questions other than the ones you don't ask... I have an appointment with Concord who distributes the Christopher basses and they will take care of it... or so it seems at this point. Will post back on Monday night...

Thanks for the advice from all who have responded thus far...

Hector

HAM · #14 06-12-2010, 07:34 PM

btw/ Sonksen Strings doesn't seem to respond to emails... his website's Contact Me is useless.

fdeck · #15 06-12-2010, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HAM

btw/ Sonksen Strings doesn't seem to respond to emails... his website's Contact Me is useless.

When I wanted to visit Mark, there was something amiss with his Internet service. Give him a buzz on the phone.

PaulCannon · #16 06-12-2010, 10:09 PM

I work at a violin shop that sells new Christophers. We have had two or three split just like yours on the top. I'm new at the shop and don't have a lot of details, but it sounded like Christopher had a bad batch of glue a few years ago.

This kind of thing should definitely be covered under warranty. Our shop has replaced the ones we've seen with problems.

HAM · #17 06-16-2010, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulCannon

I work at a violin shop that sells new Christophers. We have had two or three split just like yours on the top. I'm new at the shop and don't have a lot of details, but it sounded like Christopher had a bad batch of glue a few years ago.

This kind of thing should definitely be covered under warranty. Our shop has replaced the ones we've seen with problems.

Paul,

Thanks for the heads up... I took it in to Concord in Elgin, IL, and they are going to look at it. I am waiting for their verdict, however all indications are that they will repair it.

Regards,

Hector