beginner's advice

[powellmacaque]

Sorry if any of these topics have already been discussed, but I've tried searching the forums with no luck on some of my questions. Like many people, I'm a Bassist Guitarist (of about 3½ years), and I recently got into my schools orchestra and concert band (the orchestra is in it's first year, and it's a beginning ensemble).

I really want to learn DB for a few years (I'm a senior in HS this year) and then maybe play in ensembles in college if I can get enough practice in. I'm really interested in learning classical, folk, jazz, and blues techniques, so I was wondering:

1. Is 3/4 too small? I'm playing on my school's now, but I'm not sure what size it is. I have relatively big hands, and I'm average height and build, so is there such thing as a 4/4 bass? Are they readily available?

2. In the near future (6-9 months) I plan on purchasing a "cheaper" upright bass. I really want to spend less than $2,000 if practical (preferably $1,500). I've played Carlo Robelli basses at SamAsh, and I've heard about Engelhardt basses, are these good choices for basses, or are there better alternatives? Keep in mind that the nearest string instrument store to me is at least a 45 minute drive, if not more.

3. Which is a better style bow for what I'm trying to do musically? Is there a difference? Right now, I'm learning on a German bow, and it feels pretty comfortable. Unfortunately the schools bow is about 20 years old and was in the hands of 6th graders for many years. Yikes!

4. Besides rosin, strings, and bows, what other things would you recommend me purchasing to make things easier, more mobile, or safer?

5. Is an EUB a good or a bad thing? I compose and sing for a ska band, and I was thinking about adding some upright bass to some of our stuff, mostly for the bowing purposes, and I want something that can be heard over a guitar, drums, keyboard, and a mic'd 3-piece horn section.

Any other miscellaneous information will be appreciated. Again sorry if these topics have been brought up, but I searched the first few pages without any answers.

[Peck_Time]

Hi, read the newbie links (sticky at the top of the page), they answer most of your questions.

1.) 3/4 is the standard size.

2.) Get out there and play some basses! It is vastly preferable to play the actual bass that you are going to buy. Get to know a good luthier too.

3.) What does your teacher say about the bow?

4.) Some bass lessons

5.) EUBs are their own thing. If you want to play DB, buy a DB.

[Silversorcerer]

4/4 is available, but you might have to commission one or travel more than 45 minutes to see one. Gollihur has them special order (where I got mine).

Carlo Robelli's is a rebranded no-name. Engelhardt is better. You should look beyond those two (see above).

German is sometimes easier for beginners. (generalization, some may differ). More professionals seem to use French (at least on you-tube).

Besides Rosin, Strings, and Bows;- George Vance's Progressive Repertoire for the Double Bass.

On the EUB;- It's not a moral issue. It can be bowed, but it is not a double bass. I've played a couple I liked. It might work in the context you describe so why not?

Good luck and welcome to the DB forum

[powellmacaque]

I just read most of the newbie forum, and it probably left me with more questions than answers (not a bad thing!).

Would there be any draw back to playing a 4/4 over a 3/4, or vise versa? Does German or French technique effect tones?

I live in a relatively small town in the middle of no where in Florida, so it would be extremely hard for me to find a luthier, teacher, or even a violin shop. As of right now, our school's band director is showing me bass technique, and it's hard to find anybody who teaches.

As far as a good bass goes, I really want to try to get the best possible instrument, in an affordable range. As of now I'm saving up for college, paying for gas, and other senior high school things, but I would really like to have a bass that is suitable for play for college, but I'm afraid I don't have a well paying job or rich relatives in order to fund anything above $2k...

[ZonGuy]

Originally Posted by Silversorcerer

German is sometimes easier for beginners. (generalization, some may differ). More professionals seem to use French (at least on you-tube).

My first instructor was strictly French and I never got the hang of bowing and gave up DB. My second instructor recommended I switch over from French to German (poor flexibility), and my progress with the bow really speeded up. Then after a while, I could pick up a German OR a French and play decently. In other words, the choice of bow isnt necessarily a fork in the road, IMO.

Your suggestion of listening to the instructor is very sound.

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by powellmacaque

1. Is 3/4 too small? I'm playing on my school's now, but I'm not sure what size it is. I have relatively big hands, and I'm average height and build, so is there such thing as a 4/4 bass? Are they readily available?

On the size issue, I just want to point out that in the last 400+ years, the Bass has never had standard measurements for sizes nor does it have them today. There are some recent charts about sizes but even with that, no two are alike.

Here is a TB Thread about sizes to read.

You can have 10 different 3/4 Basses in a room and have all different measurements. As far as the 4/4 number goes, very few agree on what that actually is including myself.

A regular Bass used in a professional Symphony Orchestra is usually a 3/4 or 7/8 by most standards. In Jazz, we see more 3/4 sized commercially made Basses but there are other sizes and pedigree levels used as well there. On average, the Basses in the Symphonies are the older ones that are needed for mellower bowed tone. Again, even new Basses are seen in some Orchestras but more often than not we see the older ones.

A 3/4 Bass can be fairly large and wide and a 7/8ths can be within an inch buy some charts. Some larger Basses might feel easier to play by its combined measurements. Again, there are few standards other than 'normal' size, 'a bit bigger' and 'holy cow, that Bass is huge'!

I know you have many questions but I just wanted to make the size thing clear. Actually, the size thing isn't perfectly clear but it is something to be aware of.

[powellmacaque]

Thanks a lot for clearing that up. I was just making sure that 5 years from now I wouldn't need to buy a 4/4 bass to get a gig somewhere.

Now, I've read more on basses, and I think I'm looking to do more jazz and folk style stuff rather than orchestra. What are some things that make a bass better for jazz as compared to orchestra, if any?

Also, I was curious to know of any jazz bassists that bow in a small ensemble setting. My brother plays trombone, and one of my musical goals is to one day have a few pieces written where him and I would trade off lead and supporting roles, with a drummer friend playing along with us.

[Silversorcerer]

I often use a bow in a trio jazz setting, usually with a sax or flute or guitar. Trombone would work too.