Best improvement?

[Meddle771]

Most helpful i guess would be a better phrase...

Right now im playing a Sam Eastman plywood bass. Pretty much just the base model, with no extra frills other than an adjustable bridge (which is of marginal quality... not the easiest to adjust). The tuners can be kind of finnicky on occasion. The tailpiece is some sort of plastic and the nice ones are ebony right? The endpin slides down half a notch or two when im playing sometimes (that gets old fast...). These are only things ive noticed after playing this bass for almost a year or so. i am very happy with this instrument overall though, it seems to be very well constructed, ive never had any real problems with it, and to my (untrained) ears, it sounds really really good.

About a year ago i completely hot rodded (or rather assembled) an electric bass with super nice aftermarket parts. Started with a cheap squire, put a new neck on, new pickups, new preamp, new bridge, professional setup. After that it was the bass of my dreams, in my opinion i literally couldn't buy a stock bass with nicer feel or tone.

And since im working with a lower end upright (a quality instrument nonetheless), i kind of want to make some improvements to it to make it sound and play better, as well as just make it MY bass ya know?

So what upgrades do you think i could (or should) do to really improve it, besides new strings and a setup? Tailpiece? Bridge? Tuners? Endpin?

[wdnewman]

If it sounds really, really good to you, I wouldn't change anything. IF the bass is set up professionally, then IMO I think the biggest improvement could come from strings. Mind I said IF it is set up. Nothing you can do can help if it is not set up correctly. The tuners won't help the sound, and the tail piece and endpin would kind of be a question mark in that area also.

[fdeck]

Welcome to TB!

I'd say the slipping peg is worth repairing. That could damage the bass if it ever comes down quick. First of all, you should make sure you know the root cause. Does the peg have notches in it, or is it smooth? If it's smooth, you can file a notch where you want. If there is something wrong with the mechanism, then it might take a closer look or a trip to the "Setup and Repair" forum with close up pics. A quick fix is a small stainless steel hose clamp and some bike innertube rubber around the peg.

Other than that, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Save for strings, eventual repairs, and insurance. Bass work tends to be expensive and risky. Since you bought a reputable brand, I assume it came with decent strings and a bow that's good enough to learn from. The best two upgrades that I ever made to my plywood bass (aside from putting it back together from pieces when I got it) were a professional setup and a good bow.

[bassics1975]

Sometimes it is these often overlooked instruments that yield surprisingly good results. One of my first basses was a Kay when I was in my first year of high school. I purchased it in pieces and had it reassembled on a shoestring budget. This thing even had the old musty canvas bag. It was a dog to look at but the tone made you look twice.

Generally speaking, the old adage 'If it isn't broke, don't fix it' is something that I live by. Unless you are sure that the upgrade(s) are going to make a real difference, then I would save the $$$. Some of these upgrades could set you back quite a bit of money and leave you with something that may be more cosmetically pleasing yet little/no different in tone or projection than before. I agree with the above in the sense that the end pin could pose a safety concern for your instrument and you should look at something more secure.

[bejoyous]

The endpin would do you the most good. Having a solid endpin means you can lean on the bass and have no worries to distract you. They are not too expensive ($50-$130) and if you get a nice one you'll never have to replace it. Just sharpen it with a file once and a while.

If the Tailpiece is a Wittner leave it, they are great. While the luthier is replacing the endpin, have him or her check the length of the string between the bridge and the tailpiece nut. It should be 1/6th of the playable string length to cut out wolf tones and makes the bass sound and respond at it's best. If not, install a new tailpiece wire. Check the soundpost placement and adjust. While the strings are off, have the luthier check and lubricate the string slots in the nut and bridge. Also, check the smoothness of the fingerboard and sand to eliminate spots that'll create buzzes. (price I'm not too sure about, maybe $200)

If it isn't a Wittner tailpiece get a Marvin Wire Tailpiece (about $80) and you won't have any worries about wolf tones and your bass will sound $10 000 better (no joke).

Get a new set of Thomastik Spirocore strings (about $130). Orchestra Mittels for G, D and A, orchestra Stark for the E. After the twang wears off, they'll sound great for at least 3 years and you can play in just about any style.

If you have a Glasser bow, throw it away. They make your bass sound scratchy no matter how careful you are. Get a decent bow for $200 from Yita Music and you won't need another bow unless you decide to go into classical bass playing.

Clean your fingerboard and strings with a terrycloth towel after each time you touch the instrument. Clean them with a drop of methyl hydrate or denatured alcohol once a month to get the built up dirt off. It'll remain easier to play, sound better for longer and extend the life of your strings. ($5)

Once this is done, you won't have to make many other adjustments. Don't do this and there will always be some little annoying thing after another.

[Nathan Parker]

Of all the little tweaks I've done on my bass, the two I've been most satisfied with tone wise has been:

1) Using the laborie end pin
2) Removing all pickups

That has been my route to zen.

[hdiddy]

With DBs, you don't really trick them out. You can tweak things here and there to improve things a little bit, but nothing short of getting a new bass, will make that drastic of a difference. Part upgrades only offer a marginal difference, IME. Money that would prolly be better spent being saved for a new bass if your current one is a ply. If anything, you might try a Marvin tailpiece but sounds like the Wittner works just fine.

Save your pennies for strings (where the real experimentation is) and maybe get a bow if you don't have one already.

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

I don't know how long you've been playing DB, if you are relatively new to the instrument, my advice is to just learn to play the thing the best you can and not mess with it.
The conventional wisdom on tailpieces is that heavier ones are best for arco, lighter helps the pizz. Dunno cause I've not messed with it.
The tailpiece wire should be either braided or nylon cable.
The bass should have a proper setup. If you haven't already done so, take it to a luthier and have it gone over.
Beyond that, most of the sound of the bass is set in the wood. Whether the best of it comes out or not is up to you.
If you want to put a Leo Quann bridge on it, be my guest.

[Eric Swanson]

I would do two things:

- If tinkering on your own, tweak rather than replace. It is less expensive and will take less time.

- Talk to a really good luthier about it, who can inspect the bass. They can save you a lot of tail-chasing and expenditures.

Here is my thinking:

- Every component affects the sound. My experience is that "hard and fast" ideas, such as "put in a lighter endpin" or "ebony tailpieces are better" do not always pan out. Every bass is different and resonates slightly differently. On some basses, Marvin tailwires and carbon fiber endpins help. On other basses, they make the sound and playability worse. I have seen identical components affect different instruments in very different ways.

If your tuner is funky, see if some lubrication might help. If your endpin slips, make sure you are hitting the notch (if you have one) or figure out some way to keep it from slipping (if you do not have notches). Maybe lubricate the tightening screws threads and chalk up the "grabbing" mechanism, for example

- Reinventing the wheel, and spending money and time replacing components in a fit of "bass-improvement" is sort of a bottomless pit. Having done some of that (strings, endpins, tuners, bridges, pickups, quivers, bows, rosin, etc.), I would defer to the judgement of a professional bass-mechanic; a luthier. Ask them what they think.

- If it sounds good, be very slow to change stuff. That plastic tailpiece may resonate at exactly the right frequency for your bass to sound great. Changing it is very likely to change the sound.

[drurb]

The last three posts here from Eric, clink, and hdiddy are, IMO, pretty much what you need to know-- plus the endpin advice. As Eric points out, there can be great interactions among individual basses and individual components and strings. While I appreciate bejoyous's direct approach, understand that those are his opinions and represent his preferences and what has worked for him on his basses. For example, whatever tailpiece you have may, as Eric stated, be working very well. I wouldn't suggest dropping $80 on a Marvin if what you have is not a Wittner.

So, IMO, replace that endpin. Take the bass to a luthier for an overall setup check to ensure that, short of spending all kinds of $$$, you're pretty much getting the most you can from the bass. Start saving for a better bass. That's my $0.02.

[Eric Swanson]

I do agree with DRURB; if you can't make the endpin work, take it to a luthier and have it replaced with something that does work.

My only caution is that if you like the current sound, know that replacing the endpin with something with more or less mass and/or stiffness will have a strong effect on the tone and response. My limited and modest experience is that while Chuck Traeger (in his book) is emphatic about always replacing a steel endpin with carbon fiber or wood model, I have seen that not work well. Sometimes, on some basses, steel simply sounds and plays better. Putting in carbon fiber can make the bottom sort of disappear and make the sound more diffuse, in some cases.

But the point is well taken; if the endpin can't be fixed so that it stays in place, one can't really play the bass in safety, or with much comfort.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Eric Swanson

...My only caution is that if you like the current sound, know that replacing the endpin with something with more or less mass and/or stiffness will have a strong effect on the tone and response...

But the point is well taken; if the endpin can't be fixed so that it stays in place, one can't really play the bass in safety, or with much comfort.

Indeed! If it's mass is working well, then it could be replaced with something as close as possible. What tends to have a negative effect on tone and response is if the endpin drops and the endblock and lower ribs get smashed.

[james condino]

If you have the interest and desire to start experimenting on your bass, and understand that there is a learning curve and you WILL make a few mistakes along the way, the first thing you should spend a few rupees on is a copy of Chuck Traeger's "Setup and Repair of the Double Bass for Optimum Sound". Read it cover to cover a couple of times, and then pick a place to start on your own bass. Chuck's book will likely be the best $75 you'll ever spend on your instrument even if you live a long, long time and have a very successful career....

j.

[MDEbass]

I would recommend getting your bass drilled for a laborie endpin. Not only will you bass sound better, louder, and have a more open sound, but it will also take a good amount of weight off your hands.

[Square Bear]

i would suggest trying a bass laborie endpin before having a hole drilled. you may or may not like it. however, i agree that if you are getting a new endpin anyways now would be a good time to try one out and decide for yourself!

[gbaker]

Originally Posted by Meddle771

Most helpful i guess would be a better phrase...

And since im working with a lower end upright (a quality instrument nonetheless), i kind of want to make some improvements to it to make it sound and play better, as well as just make it MY bass ya know?

So what upgrades do you think i could (or should) do to really improve it, besides new strings and a setup? Tailpiece? Bridge? Tuners? Endpin?

Good advice has been given. Sounds like you, like some of us just like to tinker and why not, it is your heifer. But first investigate. You started here and that is good. UBs are not as "bolt on" as BGs, so getting and studying Traeger's book as James recommended is a great idea. There is a wealth of info in the forum history as well.

Based on what you stated I would first suggest a new high quality end pin that exactly fits your existing hole. Solve that problem yourself with little risk. And why not a new ebony tailpiece and cable or chord while you are down there. Not expensive, and if the old stuff sounded better, put it back.

I doubt your tuners are bad but it could happen. Usually tuning problems can be cured as simply as some pencil graphite in the nut groves and also ALWAYS tuning up to (rather than down to) the pitch. A little graphite on your bridge adjusters might help too. Playability - check that your string clearance at the nut is but the thickness of a heavy business card.

If everything on the bass is working pretty well, strings make the most difference.

Do your homework and have fun.

[hdiddy]

Couple more things:
1) Tuners are expensive. Changing to better tuners costs alot of $$$. It takes work, the pegs may not fit and things may need to get re-reamed not to mention issues with where screws are placed. Things like going from plate tuners to individuals may leave undesireable screw holes on the pegbox visible. Tuners alone will run at least $100-200 (which are prolly not worthwhile to being with) to expensive ($400+) which then doesn't even consider the cost of installation. If you're going to plunk down a quarter of the bass' cost on some tuners, you might as well trade the instrument in and get a better one - more mileage that way.

2) Swap TP hanger for a cord/aircraft wire/vectran? Sure. It's cheap and it does improve things a bit.

3) If you're going to replace the endpin - before you remove it... search the forum about cutting your end-pin rod. See if reducing the endpin mass improves the sound on your bass, and then you'll know if you want to do the same when it finally gets replaced.

4) Just to reiterate, your money will likely be better spent on strings, and esp pickups. At least with pickups, you can sell or put on another bass. Also pickups require some experience and time working with them.

5) Still having spent lots of $$$ on my student bass... in hindsight it woulda been better to spend more time practicing and paying for lessons with that cash. Tone is in your hands. But yeah, a good setup is probably the best money spent on something material next to lessons. But I do understand the desire to personalize - it's fun.

[Meddle771]

Thanks for all your responses, i plan to look into all the advice that you guys gave.

i probably won't change anything on the bass other than my strings in the near future, just thought id bring up the topic and learn something.

[JtheJazzMan]

If you want to try the bent endpin Do not drill your endblock.

KC Strings sells a non-permanent endblock extension which holds laborie style endpins.

Putting another hole in the endblock can be risky and I cant see it benefiting the value of the instrument, only devaluing it.

Maybe if this was going to be a life-long instrument, making a permanent modification might be a more suitable idea, but it sounds like you wont have this bass forever.

[hdiddy]

FWIW: I emailed KC a while back about their angled pin system and you cannot use a regular endpin with it. i.e. you can't have both styles of endpins. That is the advantage of the Laborie.