Blockless Wonder circa 1880

Simon Marsh · #1 02-19-2008, 08:50 AM

Has anybody got any opinions on the above instrument type please? I'm new to double bass (used to play electric) and want to start playing jazz, and have been offered the above instrument at £3,500. I've not even seen it as yet, but would be very grateful to hear anyones experiences or opinions of them.

Many thanks.

KSB - Ken Smith · #2 02-19-2008, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon Marsh

Has anybody got any opinions on the above instrument type please? I'm new to double bass (used to play electric) and want to start playing jazz, and have been offered the above instrument at £3,500. I've not even seen it as yet, but would be very grateful to hear anyones experiences or opinions of them.

Many thanks.

Be careful. They can sound ok to good if fully restored and re-built with a neck block and graft. Repairs on these can easily run over 5k GPB or $10k. This will add up to way more than its worth. These Basses are often a self destruct time bomb.

Do a search here and read up on it. This is about the least respected type Germanic Bass ever made by Luthiers standards.

If it is healthy Top, Back, Ribs and Neck and FULLY restored and modified, then it is no longer a Blockless wonder. I would not pay $3500. much less L3,500 GBP for a Bass like that un-restored.

A bit more is discussed here in my Forum on these as well.

jallenbass · #3 02-19-2008, 10:42 AM

I have one. I like it very much.

Simon Marsh · #4 02-19-2008, 11:06 AM

Thankyou both very much. I am having the bass checked out by an experienced player and restorer. Thanks for the advice, Ken. The forum article was very interesting. I'll keep you all posted!

Simon Marsh · #5 02-19-2008, 11:22 AM

Ken,

Sorry, I forgot to ask - if it is restored and has a block etc is it then worth about the asking price? Also, I am in the UK - have you got anything available for sale that would suit, and would it be worthwhile bearing in mind import tax and shipping?

Sorry so many questions,

Thankyou,

Simon

KSB - Ken Smith · #6 02-19-2008, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon Marsh

Ken,

Sorry, I forgot to ask - if it is restored and has a block etc is it then worth about the asking price? Also, I am in the UK - have you got anything available for sale that would suit, and would it be worthwhile bearing in mind import tax and shipping?

Sorry so many questions,

Thankyou,

Simon

I don't have any old Basses that would cost less than that (Pvt Msg me in the future about sales plz) but if it is restored and blocked and in good condition, the price would be fair in my opinion. You must see and play the Bass when possible and get a second opinion by an experienced player as well.

Mike Arnopol · #7 02-19-2008, 11:52 AM

I have a lot of experience with these. I concur with Ken. They can be VERY good sounding instruments. I think Neils' bass was one. I've had two. If it was in good health with a block, I might pay that if it sounded and played great. But ( at least in US $ conversion ) that would be about the limit of it's value.

Mike Arnopol · #8 02-19-2008, 11:53 AM

I think a typing class is in order

toman · #9 02-19-2008, 04:31 PM

From what I've seen they can be a good way to get into an old bass for not much $$$, but I'd be pretty careful in buying one. Like others say; if it has a block, that's really a good thing and make sure the bass isn't a total mess as far as previous repairs go. I don't think these basses get much respect, and often the repairs are short of what they could be. If I found one that sounded good and was reasonably sound, I'd buy it for a fair price.

KSB - Ken Smith · #10 02-19-2008, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toman

From what I've seen they can be a good way to get into an old bass for not much $$$, but I'd be pretty careful in buying one. Like others say; if it has a block, that's really a good thing and make sure the bass isn't a total mess as far as previous repairs go. I don't think these basses get much respect, and often the repairs are short of what they could be. If I found one that sounded good and was reasonably sound, I'd buy it for a fair price.

If the Top is sunken in down by the Bassbar regardless of previous repairs or the hope of any future restorations to fix it, be aware that in the business I know of, this is considered to be a 'Negative value' Bass. The Top is gone as it was a cheaply made Bass to begin with and possible poorly cared for along the way. Fixing it is only temporary. Fixing it will cost more than the value of the Bass. Of the few I have seen in this condition the sound was good but not worth taking for free if you are going to get it restored.

Now on sunken Tops just an FYI thing. I bought an old Italian Bass back in 1973. The Top was sunk so bad that when you bowed the E string, you hit the C bout. It was fixed within a year. I then played that Bass professionally for the next 15 years and sold it a 7-8 years after I stopped playing (my first musical lifetime...lol). The Top was still as it was in 1974 when I started using the Bass full time. I sold it and used the money to buy a House. That was NOT a negative value Bass. I just mention this because valuable Basses are worth restoring. Basses made for Sears or student Basses may not be most of the time. This depends though on the quality and potential of the individual Bass.

How can you tell which Bass is not worth fixing and which is an investment grade Bass? Hey, I'm not telling you...

Mike Arnopol · #11 02-19-2008, 05:34 PM

One thing that I forgot. Some of these basses have integrated bass bars(carved out of the top)Stay clear of them. Actually, if these basses are modernized, they can sound very good. The sound of a healthy blockless wonder (with a neck block and a separate bass bar)can be kind of a poor man's Italian bass. You really have to know what you're doing and/or have a good repairman look at it. Make sure that the bass bar is separate!

toman · #12 02-19-2008, 05:37 PM

I don't think these basses are ever an investment, but given that they can be had for not much money, they're viable options for someone who needs something more than a plywood bass for only a little more money. As long as the bass doesn't have major issues (like a sunken top) that need to be fixed, it can be a good option for someone on a budget. When I was in high school and college I played in one of the countries well know youth symphonies, and I played with a guy who had one, and over the course of about six years that we played together, he never had any issues other than open seams/cracks. This one didn't even have a block, and was full of messy repairs. Thing was, he didn't come from a rich family, and there was no way he could have afforded a bass decent enough to play in that setting, where a plywood wouldn't cut it. I think they paid ~ $3000 for the bass; what I had at the time cost more and I would have jumped at the chance to have his bass, at the time.