Blown away by a low-end Chinese carved bass

liam_g · #1 10-05-2007, 09:57 AM

I was in Dustin Williams' shop in Nashville the other day to get some new strings for my Strunal hybrid. Everyone was busy, so I walked back to the bass room, mostly to visit the nice old American Standard he has in there on consignment right now. It's a killer bass that I've been coveting, for sure.

I noticed a bass that hadn't been on the rack the day before when I was in there. I took a look, and it turned out to be a very pretty no-name 3/4 gamba with a solid top and reddish varnish, strung with Obligatos. I first thought it was a hybrid, then found out it was fully carved. I said "What the heck, I'll see what she's got ..."

Wow. The thing is amazing. It has deep, rich, dark tone for days, but with great clarity and big volume. I soon realized that (sorry to be corny) this was the tone I hear in my head when I'm daydreaming about bass. The feel was just perfect too. It seems made for Obligatos. In the past, I've not been too pleased with Obligatos on other basses I've tried (a Shen hybrid, Christopher hybrid, and a low-end carved bass or two), as they always seemed a bit weak on the E to me. This bass is a cannon on the E string, even with Obligatos. For comparison, I grabbed the American Standard, which has Spiro Mittels on it. The volume is actually about the same, but I much prefer the tone and feel of the Obligato-strung bass.

So at this point I'm in a quandary. I decide to try a set of Obligatos on my Strunal to see if I get anything like the feel and tone of Red (as I've started to think of her). Nothing doing. The Strunal sounds like it's stuffed with rags. So we string the Strunal up with Spiro Mittels, as I've been coming to the conclusion that this bass really needs high tension to sing. I'm right, and it does sound really good with the Spiros on it. I alternated between playing it and playing Red for a while. I could live with the Strunal -- it really is sounding *great* with the mittels -- but I really prefer the tone and feel of the other bass. I like lower tension strings, and this just underscores the fact that I'll never be able to play them with the Strunal and get any decent tone.

So, as you're probably guessing, I went home with Red, and Dustin has my Strunal on consignment now. It will serve someone very well ... it is a great bass with higher tension strings on it. But now I have the tone and feel I've always been looking for.

At some point Dustin mentioned to me that the bass was from a new small Chinese shop he's dealing with, and that it's the first instrument he's received from them. He had only just finished the setup on the bass , and that it played its first notes at about 7pm the night before. He had tried Obligatos on it just based on intuition, and was shocked at the tone that came out of it. So now I'm thinking wow, this bass is an infant and it already sounds better than any other bass I've ever played ... what's it going to be like in a few months, a few years?? I think Dustin was almost sad to see it sell so quickly! He's really hoping that the basses he's getting from them are consistent ... if they are, I think he's really on to something.

Okay, that's about it. No pics for now ... I tried, but can't get the lighting right and the thing just looks pumpkin-orange ugly in all the pics I tried, instead of the deep rich red that it really is. I'm going to get a Full Circle installed in a bit, and will see if Dustin or Jack can take some decent pics of it then.

Cheers ...

drurb · #2 10-05-2007, 11:03 AM

Congrats! Seems Red really speaks to you!

MingusAmongUs · #3 10-05-2007, 11:50 AM

If you haven't already, try taking some photos outdoors on a sunny day with a digital camera, and green grass or some solid neutral contrasting surface background. They always seem to turn out great.

Congrats on the find. Anymore info on the maker?

Roger Harper · #4 10-05-2007, 12:11 PM

Is your playing pizz or arco primarily? If you don't mind me asking what price range was it in?

I have been to Dustin's shop as well and he is a great guy and extremely talented as a player and a luthier.

Does he still have that flaback Juzek there?

thanks,
Roger

Silversorcerer · #5 10-05-2007, 07:07 PM

Some varnishes just photograph horribly orange under indoor lighting. My Kremona was no exception. It appears a rich chocolate brown to the eye, but not to the camera. I did take some photos outside and there was a distinct improvement, but I still had to knock the saturation down to get something close to what I see. Sounds like a great instrument, congratulations on finding your soul mate.

GradyBass · #6 10-06-2007, 11:58 AM

Where are the pics?!

I wanna see this Chinese Wonder!

Kevin Hsieh · #7 10-06-2007, 12:25 PM

i have a xuechang sun.. chinese made but fully carved with european woods. i cant begin to describe how much i love her. She's got a nice red tinge to her and the flame of the maple is absolutely gorgeous... sounds like a monster with mittels and a superflexible on top.

maybe it's her brother? however, i feel like xuechang sun only makes violin cornered basses... hm

http://photos-c.ak.facebook.com/phot...41502_1468.jpg
picture prior to the beginning of my relationship with the superflexible

last time i checked. jon peterson had another one in his shop (it was supposed to be mine, but i took the one on consignment instead)

liam_g · #8 10-07-2007, 10:07 AM

I have my first rehearsal with her tonight ... we'll see what the band says about the sound compared to my Strunal.

Thanks for the pic advice, folks ... I'll try to get some pics today, if I can get some to turn out.

No more info on the maker yet. I'll ask Dustin some more questions next time I see him.

Roger, I play mostly pizz, with a little bit of arco, plus I'm working on my arco as I'd love to join the section of a community orchestra someday (I have a background as a classical singer and flutist). The bass was priced in the low $3k's, although Dustin did say that he might not be able to keep future orders quite as low (I think he got a promotional deal on this first one, lucky for me!). I believe the Juzek is still there ... there's some sort of flatback with a $12k price tag on it that I just haven't allowed myself to play ...

Kevin, that's a beauty! I've played superflexibles a good amount (complete set) and like them, as far as high-ish tension strings go. My Strunal loves them. Mittels are great too, obviously! I'm finding that I just prefer lower tension strings, and I'm very happy that this new bass loves them!

Cheers

Kevin Hsieh · #9 10-08-2007, 02:52 PM

hey any pictures yet?

liam_g · #10 10-08-2007, 11:06 PM

Sorry ... still haven't had time. Too much going on ... four rehearsals and a gig this week, with two different groups.

BUT ... played Red in rehearsal for the first time last night. She sounds and feels soooo good, and it translates into the ensemble as well, not just solo at home. Everyone was impressed with the sound, and I found myself playing better as well. It was a weird symbiotic thing ... I heard and felt things differently because of the bass, and it caused me to play differently, and better. Some lines came out of my hands that had me going "Woah, cool! Where did that come from?" And the band agreed ...

It was an awesome night.

Pics soon, if I can find the time!

Cheers

Kevin Hsieh · #11 10-09-2007, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by liam_g

Sorry ... still haven't had time. Too much going on ... four rehearsals and a gig this week, with two different groups.

BUT ... played Red in rehearsal for the first time last night. She sounds and feels soooo good, and it translates into the ensemble as well, not just solo at home. Everyone was impressed with the sound, and I found myself playing better as well. It was a weird symbiotic thing ... I heard and felt things differently because of the bass, and it caused me to play differently, and better. Some lines came out of my hands that had me going "Woah, cool! Where did that come from?" And the band agreed ...

It was an awesome night.

Pics soon, if I can find the time!

Cheers

nice. yea that was me after getting far away from my school's beat up ply equipped with the sketchiest BP100 ever.
hah

drurb · #12 10-09-2007, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by liam_g

...At some point Dustin mentioned to me that the bass was from a new small Chinese shop he's dealing with, and that it's the first instrument he's received from them.

More information about this series of basses would be nice as well.

DryBones · #13 10-09-2007, 07:40 AM

I'm still trying to figure out why you buy an instrument of any kind and not even know the name of it.

Must have REALLY spoke to you!

KSB - Ken Smith · #14 10-09-2007, 08:50 AM

Well, if your were 'Blown away by a low-end Chinese carved bass' then coming to my shop might be hazardous to your health!

liam_g · #15 10-09-2007, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DryBones

I'm still trying to figure out why you buy an instrument of any kind and not even know the name of it.

Must have REALLY spoke to you!

It did. After playing it, I didn't care who made it.

liam_g · #16 10-09-2007, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

Well, if your were 'Blown away by a low-end Chinese carved bass' then coming to my shop might be hazardous to your health!

That's why I generally don't allow myself to try stratospherically expensive instruments. Every once in a while I let myself play an instrument that I know I could never afford, but not often. I suspect you might even have some repelling device at the door which would deny me entry.

Honestly, though, *for my ears and hands and for my music* this bass blows away anything I've tried. And yes, I know that I haven't tried anything from your shop, Ken.

Cheers

KSB - Ken Smith · #17 10-09-2007, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by liam_g

That's why I generally don't allow myself to try stratospherically expensive instruments. Every once in a while I let myself play an instrument that I know I could never afford, but not often. I suspect you might even have some repelling device at the door which would deny me entry.

Honestly, though, *for my ears and hands and for my music* this bass blows away anything I've tried. And yes, I know that I haven't tried anything from your shop, Ken.

Cheers

Being serious now, I must admit that I have played (and own) a few Chinese Basses that surprise me as well by how good they really are. For the money, a well made Chinese Bass can be a great bargain!

Before getting my Gilkes, Martini and some other old classics I had only the Batchelder and my 7/8 Shen (the 3/4 Shen was being used by my Son). The Shen was favored by my Conductor in the Orchestra over all the other Basses. At a distance out in the hall, it's not all that different sounding than my Martini. Go figure...

liam_g · #18 10-09-2007, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drurb

More information about this series of basses would be nice as well.

I just called Dustin Williams for some more information. I specifically asked for the name of the shop, but he said he really doesn't know. There's this Chinese guy who shows up at Dustin's shop a couple of times a year with a truck full of instruments, and Dustin picks out any that he likes. This was the first carved bass that he's bought from him. The guy's company name is "CNA", but Dustin isn't even sure what the letters stand for. I tried some googling, but didn't find any info, especially since 'CNA' is also the English abbreviation for the Chinese News Agency.

So I guess it's a mystery, unless someone here who owns a shop has dealt with the same CNA salesperson???

Dustin is definitely calling him to try to get more of these basses in, though.

Cheers

liam_g · #19 10-09-2007, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

Being serious now, I must admit that I have played (and own) a few Chinese Basses that surprise me as well by how good they really are. For the money, a well made Chinese Bass can be a great bargain!

Before getting my Gilkes, Martini and some other old classics I had only the Batchelder and my 7/8 Shen (the 3/4 Shen was being used by my Son). The Shen was favored by my Conductor in the Orchestra over all the other Basses. At a distance out in the hall, it's not all that different sounding than my Martini. Go figure...

Hi, Ken,

I played a 7/8 Christopher in Seattle that was pretty special as well.

Oh, and just to be clear, I have no illusions that my new bass would hold a candle to one of your old classics!

All the best

Bass Barrister · #20 10-09-2007, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by liam_g

I just called Dustin Williams for some more information. I specifically asked for the name of the shop, but he said he really doesn't know. There's this Chinese guy who shows up at Dustin's shop a couple of times a year with a truck full of instruments, and Dustin picks out any that he likes. This was the first carved bass that he's bought from him. The guy's company name is "CNA", but Dustin isn't even sure what the letters stand for. I tried some googling, but didn't find any info, especially since 'CNA' is also the English abbreviation for the Chinese News Agency.

So I guess it's a mystery, unless someone here who owns a shop has dealt with the same CNA salesperson???

Dustin is definitely calling him to try to get more of these basses in, though.

Cheers

Not sure that it's the same guy, but Mark Sonsken told me about a guy that does the same thing - rolls up in a truck with carpeted floor and padded bass racks. This is one of the basses Mark bought from him (there were two). Both were great instruments but out of my price range at that time.

www.sonksenstrings.com

See "Johannes Gustav Ruchti Orchestra" under "Current Offerings".