Bohemian blockless bass

Frank Larouche · #1 01-10-2010, 02:31 PM

Hello everybody,

I want to upgrade from my plywood bass to a carved bass for mainly jazz but also for a little bit of bowing. I found and tried a bass and I love the dark sound of it but there is a couple question marks for me. The seller, who is the one who restored it, say it is a bass made circa 1850 and probably a bohemian bass. Is is blockless and he said that when he opened it, it seem very stable and he think that there is no problem with a blockless bass that is healty. The other thing that bugs me is that the bass was revarnished by him but it seem a good job and the sound is very nice. What do you think about blockless bass considering that he ask 8000 dollars, that is not cheap for me because I am a student. I know that I would appreciate this bass if I only consider the sound but do you think the block thing is a major problem and is the price too much?

francis

Eric Hochberg · #2 01-10-2010, 03:09 PM

You should post many good photos of this to get our luthiers and players impressions here. Dimensions such as string length, too. Is the owner/restorer a pro luthier who really knew what he was doing? Many people look down on refinishes. Blockless means the bass has an easier chance of big damage in an accident. I'm guessing that the bass has pretty old school neck angle measurements, overstand, etc., too, as I don't think these things can be changed on a blockless bass (correct me if I'm wrong). If you really love this bass and past work is all good, it might be worth it to have a block installed and bring it up to today's standards. With that in mind I don't think it's possible to know if 8k is a fair price for it or not with the info you've supplied. Once you get pictures and measurements you should also send this info to smithbassforums.com for advice.

You definitely need to take this bass to a disinterested expert bass luthier to inspect it before you buy it.

Frank Larouche · #3 01-10-2010, 04:44 PM

thanks a lot for the advice! I will ask the seller if he is ok that I post some pics of the bass and I will definitely bring the bass to another luthier.

francis

kurt ratering · #4 01-10-2010, 06:59 PM

you can raise the overstand and by default, the projection with a shim under the fingerboard. 8k sounds steep for a revarnish. is the purfling real or painted on?

Don Higdon · #5 01-10-2010, 07:53 PM

Do you mean Bohemian or Tyrolean?

Frank Larouche · #6 01-11-2010, 12:33 PM

I'll check the purfling next time. For Don, I mean Bohemian, that's what the seller said. But I begin to think it is maybe a Mittenwald because of the bulbous contours at the upper-block area (neck-rib join) tha I only saw on Mittenwald bass. Another particular thing on the bass is a little diamond-shaped thing on the top just below the bridge. Is it a distinctive trait?
Also, is it possible to have a mittenwald blockless?
Is it worth more?

thanks in advance for all the advice!

francis

Mike Arnopol · #7 01-11-2010, 01:55 PM

Sounds like a Tyrolean "blockless wonders". That "bulbous" shape as the upper ribs meet the neck is the giveaway. Often, the neck angle is too low which can be remedied by a shim, as mentioned. But that can make the neck a bit thick. Also, most of these basses had a bass bar that was carved out of the top as opposed to glued-in. Number one, this doesn't sound as good, but number 2 it offers less strength to the top. 8k is getting a bit up there if there is no block and an integral bar. I have seen basses like this with both changed that have gone as high as 15k, but I've gotten smarter as far as risk-taking with "should be great when the repair work is done" basses.

Don Higdon · #8 01-11-2010, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Arnopol

Sounds like a Tyrolean "blockless wonders".

Exactly; makes me question the experience of the seller.
There's no fixed rule on Tyroleans. I saw a small one in the Orchestra of St. Luke's that was dynamite. However, don't get your hopes up. Sounds to me like there's some risk here, which must be evaluated by a good luthier before you drop 8 grand.

LouisF · #9 01-11-2010, 04:45 PM

To add to the "blockless wonder" sagas -

The conversion of the little 3-string "wonder" we found with the screwed-on (I kid you not) plywood back, is nearly complete - Nick is carving the back (round) out of a great piece of polar that we purchased after a very long search. The ribs have been relined and the infamous bass bar as described above replaced. The bass was totally taken apart and all cracks etc fixed, and a new (first) neck block and endpin block installed.

It's either going to be a "nice" little bass worth about $4-5K (I bought the bass for $300, bits and piece -endpin, back, tuners etc- another $1K; Nick's labor and talent the rest etc)... OR...

It's going to sound like a fantastic chamber/orch bass worth what? Two or three times that much. Who knows? It's been a fascinating learning process for me, and they bass will certainly be very playable when done.

Plus, the process has been slow enough and part-time enough (for both Nick and myself) that no one got too hurt financially and there was something about the bass when I played it, even with the Home Depot back, a real soulfulness in the (very small) tone, that made me think it would all be worth it.

The point being (among others) that the OP's bass sounds over-valued by the seller IMO and that in that price point there are plenty of options.

Louis

Frank Larouche · #10 01-11-2010, 06:49 PM

Thanks alot everyone for the good advice!! It's incredible the knowledge that is available on talkbass!! I will think about it a bit more and take my time to find the right instrument.

francis

eh_train · #11 01-12-2010, 10:14 AM

At the risk of veering into smarta** territory, you said, "Nick is carving the back (round) out of a great piece of polar that we purchased..."

A comment, and a concern: 1) I hear that stuff is very difficult to work with, and; 2) Isn't that material a threatened species (what with climate change, and all...)?

Thank you,

Paul (Eh_train)

LouisF · #12 01-12-2010, 10:24 AM

1) I don't think so, but I'm not a luthier - I know it's been discussed in the set up threads. It's certainly not like walnut. Upton's using it and a lot of older Italian basses were made with it.

Also - I think there was some discussion as to exactly what "poplar" was - American, Italian, tulipwood (or something etc). I don't know. This piece was imported from Italy, where I think the forests are "restocked" or whatever the technical term is.

2) This particular piece was cut 20-30 years ago, which doesn't alter your point. I think everyone is in agreement that the mass hacking down of forests that some of the Chinese and Eastern European factories are doing has to end... but, what? We all play carbon fiber basses?

I put a link on the Bow forum about recent research on carbon fiber bows v. pernumbucco - and how the cf bows have improved remarkably over the past 7-10 years, which probably saves a lot of trees. But I don;t know what the carbon footprint is from the process of making the bows etc;

A lot of people are trying to use salvaged woods (logs that have been underwater in lakes, old barn timbers etc) as away of dealing with these issues. Given the nature of the instruments we play, it's probably all a compromise - and will be for quite some time.

Louis

eh_train · #13 01-12-2010, 10:54 AM

Hi Louis,

"POLAR", you wrote "POLAR"! I'm not sure my attempt at humour will be any funnier now that I've had to explain it....

CHeers,

Paul

Quote:

Originally Posted by LouisF

1) I don't think so, but I'm not a luthier - I know it's been discussed in the set up threads. It's certainly not like walnut. Upton's using it and a lot of older Italian basses were made with it.

Also - I think there was some discussion as to exactly what "poplar" was - American, Italian, tulipwood (or something etc). I don't know. This piece was imported from Italy, where I think the forests are "restocked" or whatever the technical term is.

2) This particular piece was cut 20-30 years ago, which doesn't alter your point. I think everyone is in agreement that the mass hacking down of forests that some of the Chinese and Eastern European factories are doing has to end... but, what? We all play carbon fiber basses?

I put a link on the Bow forum about recent research on carbon fiber bows v. pernumbucco - and how the cf bows have improved remarkably over the past 7-10 years, which probably saves a lot of trees. But I don;t know what the carbon footprint is from the process of making the bows etc;

A lot of people are trying to use salvaged woods (logs that have been underwater in lakes, old barn timbers etc) as away of dealing with these issues. Given the nature of the instruments we play, it's probably all a compromise - and will be for quite some time.

Louis

LouisF · #14 01-12-2010, 10:57 AM

Ouch! How embarrassing - and I was trying to be so thoughtful and politically correct - well now I can say what I really think:

CLEAR CUT 'EM ALL!!

(not really, but...)

Oh dear!

Jake deVilliers · #15 01-12-2010, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eh_train

Hi Louis,

"POLAR", you wrote "POLAR"! I'm not sure my attempt at humour will be any funnier now that I've had to explain it....

CHeers,

Paul

I thought it was funny...

forester · #16 01-12-2010, 05:22 PM

[quote=LouisF;8526755]Ouch!

CLEAR CUT 'EM ALL!!

now your sounding a bit bi-polar..

LouisF · #17 01-12-2010, 05:55 PM

Just kidding (or did that need to be said?)

forester · #18 01-12-2010, 06:06 PM