bowing the La Scala

marvin spangles · #1 10-29-2008, 05:42 PM

Can some one please advise . I have New Standard La Scala Hybrid and a Lemur Sunrise. Both basses are strung with Evahs. While the new Standard is a superior bass in many ways the cheaper bass seems to bow better. The notes speak a little easier. Why would this be the case. I am lucky to have two basses but as I love playing the La Scala I would realy like to use it for classical music too. It is totally fine for Jazz pizz.

Bass Barrister · #2 10-29-2008, 08:52 PM

The fully carved LaScala I played at Arnold's last week was strung with Evahs and sounded full and rich. That said, Evahs are not my favorite bowing string. I'd probably use Flexocores or Bel Cantos. Obviously, this is my personal opinion. I'm sure you will get many other views here.

My question would also be: is your La Scala setup optimal for classical (mainly arco) playing?

salcott · #3 10-29-2008, 10:15 PM

I have a fully laminated LaScala strung with EPs. No bowing problems with a very nice pernambuco bow or a Finale carbon fibre bow. As I've posted elsewhere, the Finale is a real nice match with the LaScala.

marvin spangles · #4 10-30-2008, 04:49 AM

sorry guys if I've misled you. It's not that the La Scala doesn't bow well. It does. There is a slight roll in the D and A which makes articulation that slightly more difficult than the cheaper bass. It is more noticable when crossing strings in the lower register. When I got the bass I asked for it to be set up for someone that uses it for mostly Jazz but some classical too. What is the difference in set up.? Outside of taking the instrument to a Luthier what steps can I take to improve its bowability. ( and yes I am doing lots of practice)

LouisF · #5 10-30-2008, 09:07 PM

I bought one of Lemur's laminate Sunrises for the College last year. I think it was $1700-1800, with spirocores (I think - I'm not there now) For the money it was a remarkably good bowing bass - in part of some patented way Jerry has (ADR or some such he calls it) of cutting the grain on an angle. (Ask him)

I was very impressed with the value for money.

Louis

Eli_Upright12 · #6 11-01-2008, 05:48 AM

Though they are better than the Obligatos, the Evahs roll a little bit. I've noticed this on my bass. If the bass is pretty new you might also just be having some of the aches and pains of it breaking in. I would say keep playing it as much as possible and both you and the bass will adjust to each other. Or you might make sure the soundpost hasn't moved or anything.

drurb · #7 11-01-2008, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LouisF

For the money it was a remarkably good bowing bass - in part of some patented way Jerry has (ADR or some such he calls it) of cutting the grain on an angle. (Ask him)

He patented a way to cut wood? Do you mean the "ASD" advertising stuff? Anybody have a link to the patent (assuming one exists)? Sorry for the hijack.

Jsn · #8 11-01-2008, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drurb

He patented a way to cut wood? Do you mean the "ASD" advertising stuff? Anybody have a link to the patent (assuming one exists)? Sorry for the hijack.

I think in this case the term "patented" is a euphemism for "unique and desirable", as in "my Aunt Patty's patented butterscotch brownies". Doesn't indicate an actual patenting process--merely that the item in question is so distinctive that it puts one in mind of patents.

drurb · #9 11-01-2008, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jsn

I think in this case the term "patented" is a euphemism for "unique and desirable", as in "my Aunt Patty's patented butterscotch brownies". Doesn't indicate an actual patenting process--merely that the item in question is so distinctive that it puts one in mind of patents.

I agree that that is what was probably meant but the lack of precision is misleading and unnecessary, IMO. There are actual patents out there and to elevate the advertising hype of ASD to the status of a patented process is a stretch. I'm convinced of neither its uniqueness nor its desirability. Patents can be objectively evaluated while secret "new processes" cannot. The basses in question might sound wonderful and that might have nothing to do with ASD.

LouisF · #10 11-01-2008, 03:54 PM

I don't know (about the patent issues). It was the ASD design and it did make a $1700 bass sound pretty darn good.

Louis

drurb · #11 11-01-2008, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LouisF

It was the ASD design and it did make a $1700 bass sound pretty darn good.

As I said...

Quote:

Originally Posted by drurb

The basses in question might sound wonderful and that might have nothing to do with ASD.

We don't really know what "ASD" is. I suspect it is nothing more than an acronym given to their design. Gosh, I hope other luthiers don't start in with this "car sales" approach. Imagine:

UAB- Upton Amazing Build
SSS- Shen Special Sound
SDA- Schnitzer Dynamic Acoustics
CTR- Christopher Tuned Resonance
SEP- Solano Extra Projection

Cupholders anyone?

Marcus Johnson · #12 11-01-2008, 07:25 PM

Arnold already has one.... he gave me a "New STD"

Well, actually he sold it to me.

salcott · #13 11-01-2008, 07:36 PM

Back to the actual subject- in my experience, confirmed by a few "real" arco types, the (my) LaScala strung with EPs bows very nicely. That's all I can say. I'm not concerned with hybrid basses, Lemur basses, or anything else. Just a simple answer to a simple question.

**Chris Fitzgerald** · #14 11-01-2008, 10:59 PM

I could be wrong, but I don't think that the bass causes strings to roll. Isn't that more a function of the strings themselves?

salcott · #15 11-01-2008, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

I could be wrong, but I don't think that the bass causes strings to roll. Isn't that more a function of the strings themselves?

Absolutely. The bass has nothing to do with "rolling".

marvin spangles · #16 11-02-2008, 09:54 AM

Well maybe rolling is the wrong word. I have just noticed that I can more easily articulate with the bow on the cheaper bass. Therefore there is less effort involved allowing me to be a little more subtle with the bow. I only recently noticed the problem when I was practising a Vivaldi Sonata. I hadn't been playing the cheaper bass since I got the La Scala which I have for about a year. I have been bowing now fairly seriously for two years. Same bow Same strings on both basses. Both have adjustable bridges. Thanks for your replies but no one has really given me an explanation yet. Any Luthiers out there that might have an opinion? Help!
Thanks Salcott for your reply to my pm

Eric Hochberg · #17 11-02-2008, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marvin spangles

Well maybe rolling is the wrong word. I have just noticed that I can more easily articulate with the bow on the cheaper bass. Therefore there is less effort involved allowing me to be a little more subtle with the bow. I only recently noticed the problem when I was practising a Vivaldi Sonata. I hadn't been playing the cheaper bass since I got the La Scala which I have for about a year. I have been bowing now fairly seriously for two years. Same bow Same strings on both basses. Both have adjustable bridges. Thanks for your replies but no one has really given me an explanation yet. Any Luthiers out there that might have an opinion? Help!

I can't offer any technical expanations, if that is what you are looking for, but from a practical player's perspective, a set of strings may sound and respond differently on different basses. You'll have to find a string that works well for you bowing and pizz on your LaScala. You mention roll, so maybe a stiffer feeling or a higher tension string will help with this. If the problem in not on all of the EPs, try replacing those that roll with something else. You have to experiment. Used strings offered on this forum is a more affordable way to do this.

If you raise the bridge on the LaScala, does that do anything to the bowed response? A raised bridge means a sharper string angle over the bridge that creates more pressure on the top.

It is also possible that you won't be able to recreate the response of the Sunrise on the LaScala. It's been my experience that no two basses are created equal.

arnoldschnitzer · #18 11-02-2008, 12:23 PM

Perhaps the bridge curve, and therefore the clearance, is different on the two instruments. If so, you may want to have the two made more similar.

marvin spangles · #19 11-03-2008, 09:59 AM

Thanks to all who offered any sort of advice. As Ehochberg suggests no two basses react in the same way to different strings. To Arnold. I think the bridges are very similar. I have tried varying the height but I perceived no noticeable difference The short term solution is to use one for classical playing and the other for Jazz until another "holy Grail" of strings comes along. I think the more suited to the bow then there will be a trade of in pizz and visa versa. Thanks again.

Eric Hochberg · #20 11-03-2008, 10:17 AM

Dan Tice (on this forum) has a fully carved La Scala set up primarily for classical. A wonderful bass, I think he has Bel Cantos on it. You might ask him for a recommendation.