Buy UB Hawkes Laminate or Rent-to-Buy Schoenbach?

[Blacksheep]

Hello,
I've recently come upon two options. Either save up and order a Laminate Hawkes probably realistically take 6-8 months, or rent a Schoenbach now, and possibly have a rent to buy program on it, and start lessons now.

What does anyone know about Schoenbachs, and in the long run, how would they stand up to a UB hawkes laminate?

Thanks

[Steve Killingsworth]

I can't offer an opinion on the Schoenbach but rent-to-own deals are generally poor financial decisions. You usually end up paying significantly more for the product.


I have played an Upton and (as many posts around here note) they are very good basses for the money. I would save and work toward one of them.

[Silversorcerer]

Originally Posted by Blacksheep

Hello,
I've recently come upon two options. Either save up and order a Laminate Hawkes probably realistically take 6-8 months, or rent a Schoenbach now, and possibly have a rent to buy program on it, and start lessons now.

What does anyone know about Schoenbachs, and in the long run, how would they stand up to a UB hawkes laminate?

Thanks

Just two options in Manitoba? Lemur Music, Gollihur Music, bassesonline.com will not ship to Manitoba?? Is the Schoenbach locally available to you? Is that truly a Czech bass or is it just named after the city now known as Luby? Tell me how you arrived at just those two options because I think there might be a few more you might have missed. The herd seems to have thinned down to the two a priori.

That said, a third option that seems obvious is to save up for the Schoenbach. If it is available locally in Manitoba, that could have some real advantages as it is always good to have a local relationship with a shop if they can supply you with a good instrument that fits your needs. And if the rent to own terms are not bad and you take a few lessons and decide DB is not for you, you have a lot less invested. Reselling a laminated DB to recoup your investment might result in a greater loss. Just some devil's advocate thinking happening.

By the way, the "Schoenbach" is probably just a name brand used by a shop for a factory DB made in Europe, which is what the Upton Hawkes is also. What I mean is no-one named Hawkes built the Upton Hawkes and no one named Schoenbach built the "Schoenbach". The Hawkes comes from Romania currently, I think, and it is plausible that a Schoenbach comes from the Czech Republic.

Also, have you considered the Calin Wultur laminated basses? These come with a nice package of goodies. There are always more than 2 choices.

[Eric Rene Roy]

In the future David, you could substitute the "Upton Hawkes" for just "Upton, made in the USA"

[Silversorcerer]

Well, Europeans I would think.

[Eric Rene Roy]

Touché


A nice place to visit and live, I agree...but I always wanted to make them here.

[Silversorcerer]

Originally Posted by eroy

In the future David, you could substitute the "Upton Hawkes" for just "Upton, made in the USA"

Are you now building these in the USA completely? I was under the impression that these (the ones with no notches in the f-holes) were coming from Romania, like some other ones I've seen with no notches in the f-holes that are made there. If that's not the case, please accept my apologies.

[Silversorcerer]

Originally Posted by eroy

Touché


A nice place to visit and live, I agree...but I always wanted to make them here.

Well, I can respect a man who is American by choice and not just an accident here like me. Touche. (where's that d__ aigu) That would be French wouldn't it.

[Eric Rene Roy]

I am the accident...Gary is the choice.

We have some amazing plans...stuff that will turn the market upside down. I wish I could yell it from the roof tops...but we need to put one foot in front of the other first. I hope to be breaking a Champagne bottle on one soon though!

Last thing I want is the critics lobbing sour grapes before the glue has dried.

[Silversorcerer]

Originally Posted by eroy

I am the accident...Gary is the choice.

We have some amazing plans...stuff that will turn the market upside down. I wish I could yell it from the roof tops...but we need to put one foot in front of the other first. I hope to be breaking a Champagne bottle on one soon though!

Last thing I want is the critics lobbing sour grapes before the glue has dried.

Maybe you can get some tips from Engelhardt-Link. Doesn't Champagne come from France also? Perhaps a bottle of Sparkling California whine would be more appropriate.

[Eric Rene Roy]

BTW, been reading your posts over at the other place. Your building sounds interesting!

[Eric Rene Roy]

Originally Posted by Silversorcerer

California whine

Freudian slip?

[Silversorcerer]

Originally Posted by eroy

Freudian slip?

That's lingerie isn't it?

[Blacksheep]

Those aren't my only two options, it's just the two that really stood out. Should I rent for a month, take a lesson and see how I like it, then save up and buy a UB Hawkes or other hig end laminate, and then start regular lessons? I already have theory study lessons set up for next year so I just would need DB technique lessons every so often.

[Silversorcerer]

Originally Posted by Blacksheep

Those aren't my only two options, it's just the two that really stood out. Should I rent for a month, take a lesson and see how I like it, then save up and buy a UB Hawkes or other hig end laminate, and then start regular lessons? I already have theory study lessons set up for next year so I just would need DB technique lessons every so often.

Well, the truth is that it is you who know the best answer to that question. It depends on how committed you are to becoming a double bassist and only you know that. Start the lessons the first day you have a DB in your hands. The teacher is the first thing you need;- even before the bass. You also need the bow, a bass bag, etc. Renting for a month if you are not in the do-it-or-die commitment level is not a bad idea.

As for comparing available laminated basses, make sure the points that guide you to a choice are truly relevant. Don't base the decision on a tempest in a teapot. I probably missed the discussions that earlier on narrowed your choices down. Do you know the origin / maker of the Schoenbach? Laminated factory basses are made in just a few places in the world. Reghin, Romania and Luby (Schoenbach historically), Czechoslovakia are two very active centers of European manufacture. This is where most of them originate. Germany, Poland, Bulgaria, Hungary, and most of the eastern European countries also have some factories. The quality of those instruments doesn't vary much at similar price points. I've only seen a few from Germany, but these were certainly the best of the crowd and the most expensive.

Many laminates are now being made in China, which as a country builds more violin family instruments than any other country. China makes a lot of junk as well as some decent instruments. Romania and the Czech Republic are a good bit more consistent historically. All of those instruments get purchased and branded with many different names by resellers. It is plausible even that "Schoenbach" could be a branded Chinese instrument.

Beyond the point of origin, the most important thing to consider is the reseller and the service that they give you. What the reseller does varies a good bit. Sometimes they finish partially manufactured basses, sometimes they only do the set-up. Sometimes they just pass it to you direct from the maker with no changes. The set-up work and how carefully that is done is probably the most important part of what the reseller does as well as handle warranty services and general instrument maintenance. It is a good idea to have those services locally available. If there is a stringed instrument specialty shop that you can walk into in Manitoba that has the Schoenbach, walk in there and ask them where they get them. Check out the label in the instrument also. It should be visible through the bass side f-hole. If it is the Czech Republic, those basses are bound to be very similar to Strunals and other brands of that origin. Expecting the Upton Hawkes or any other brand to be substantially different might be somewhat imaginative, IMO. I have never seen an Upton Hawkes here in Atlanta, and this is a big, big metropolitan area. Certainly there are a good number in the northeast USA because that is where the store is. Lemur of California sells more basses to Atlanta, I think, but most bassists here buy from the local string specialty shops whose instruments come from Romania, Czech Rupublic, and the better Chinese makers. Invariably the European ones look a little better built on the inside. Some dealers here have stopped buying from China because of quality issues. I also see a few of the American made Engelhardts and a good number of old Kays. The American laminated basses look better made to me than any of them, but curiously do not have the best sound. The maple veneer looks thicker to me and the finish is more evenly applied generally.

If there is no local specialty string shop, then compare the other choices again. You might still wind up in the same place, and I hope I am not asking you to go through a process you have already been through, but maybe that wouldn't be a bad exercise either. Don't forget to get the teacher. That person might know a bit about possible local resources as well.

[Blacksheep]

I am quite committed to becoming a double bassist, so much so that I want to start as soon as I can, but I dont want to blow up to 100 dollars to try it for one month on a low quality instrument. There are no really string speciality shops around here. The only one I have seen works most in violins, and never has double basses, though I do believe they repair them. The fact of the matter is that I will posotively HAVE to order an instrument, so I honestlty am not sure what to do.

The UB Hawkes seem to have a good reputation so that's why I figured on them. They have lots of information on their website, and whenever I have emailed questions, they have taken the time to properly respond quickly.

I honestly have very few ressources when it comes to double bass, in that I have nowhere to find an instrument, other than Long-McQuade (bassically a Canadian "Guitar Center") which deals with the Schoenbachs, which I have not been able to find any info on. I have made calls, sent emails to people who I thought could help, and that either led to a dead end, or I never heard back. TB is pretty much my only ressource.

I am dedicated to becoming a double bassist so I need a solid instrument that can last me a number of years. But I am still young so my budget can really only go to 2000$ give or take.

So, any ideas on affordable instruments other than:
-UB Hawkes Laminate
-Englehardt (Kay) Laminate
-Shen Laminate

Feel free to suggest another.

Right now, to me, the UB Hawkes looks like the best choice, with the positive reviews, and the apparent high quality of the bass. The finish is extremely professional looking and attractive. The fingerboards are higher quality, and the extension is a very cool detail. Also, they are slowly becomming more and more available in Canada, so that would help avoid higher shipping costs.
-

[Silversorcerer]

OK, you've done considerable homework there Blacksheep and I am impressed. I'm also a little concerned about the teacher situation and hope you have that covered. That is real important. I don't think the Guitar Center type place is a good idea, particularly if you can't get into the store and find out where the Schoenbach is made. General purpose music stores geared toward rock & roll gear know nothing about DB's. So forget the Schoenbach. The violin shop is your best resource locally and it is good if they can handle set-up and repair issues, too bad that they ignore the low notes in the orchestra. Their loss.

I did mention some other options earlier in the thread, and if you have checked those out and compared the prices and accessory options, I think you are prepared to make an informed purchase. All of those suggestions vary somewhat in the offerings, but any one of them is better, IMO, than dealing with a GC type of store and I think you will be well served by the seller of your choice among those.

[Blacksheep]

I have pretty well decided on a UB Hawkes Laminate. I'll try and talk to a teacher soon though and get it sorted out. Now to start saving, which will be hard come summer vacation....

[Bass]

My local L&M had a used Schoenbach for sale, so I gave it a quick test drive.

The Schoenbach is inferior to the Hawkes, so much so that it's insulting to compare. The Schoenbach was an ugly orange plasticy finish, the grain was wide and random, the bridge looked cheap, the hardware looke like junk, the tone was thin and nasally, etc....

I think L&M wanted $2000 for this. What a rip-off! You'll be far far better off with the Hawkes.

Are you travelling west this summer? If so, let me know and stop in and have a look at my Hawkes.

[Blacksheep]

Going east, but thanks for the offer.