Buying a Bass in NYC

[pacetownsley]

I'm a hobbyist. I have two very decent little basses, but have decided it's time for something new. It's been several years since I bought a bass. I can spend around 9k.

I've been scouring the city, and have been stunned to find nothing decent in that price range. I don't expect a Boosey Hawks, but I certainly expect something healthy and nice to play. So far, the only things I've seen in my price range at dealers have been odd-ball items (for example, the unlabeled German bass with a recent replacement neck the size of a small tree and some very large cracks for 10k, "firm".) From individuals I've seen even worse, like a nice 20's German with a "small crack" that turned out to be a jagged one foot split, like someone had taken an ax to it.

They haven't all been that bad, but you get the picture. I never would have considered buying a new bass, but the best thing I played in my price range was a Kolstein Fendt, which I have now on a one week trial. So far, it's decent but I expect I'll end up returning it. It reminds me of a sound engineer's idea of an upright bass: lots of nice, transparent bottom end that won't interfere with the singer, but no character to speak of.

Two questions:

Am I being too critical of the Kolstein? Anyone want to share experience with them? It sounds like it has potential, but I've never bought a new bass. For the money, should I expect it sound dead on from the start, or is it worth getting it on the possibility that it will eventually "play in"?

Second, are my expectations just unrealistic? Are basses really that expensive these days? All I want is something with some character, comfortable to play and healthy. I want a bass I can develop a relationship with, if you know what I mean.

After going to the various dealers, I just feel like a jerk. One very famous dealer, whose luthiers I know and have enormous respect for, were absolute sharks when it came to selling their basses. Another made me wait to get in the showroom because a beloved client showed up at the last minute to audition bows -- for four hours. Should I be doing something different, or should I adjust my expectations?

[Herbie 80's]

Check in our classifieds - Sickpea has a really nice bass in there now.

The obvious questions: Have you been to Gage, and the other 'famous' shops in NYC? Also, it's worth checking Boston out - the prices will probably be cheaper.

[Stiggs]

9K!? Buy five!

[pacetownsley]

Thanks, Herbie. Yea, I've been to Gage. I've been taking my Czech flatback there for a long time. I'm absolutely devoted to them -- best luthiers anywhere, and they've always treated me really well.

I will check the classifieds here again. And Boston might be a good suggestion.

Anyone have an opinion on the Kolstein?

[Jason Sypher]

I would highly recommend Sickpea's bass. It's an absolute steal at that price. It's loud and punchy and very unique looking. I went looking once in the 9K range and was also pretty disappointed. I found mostly beat up Juzeks and frankenbasses. Kolstein's are nice but for some reason I never had a real connection with any of them. The La Scala basses are also very nice and I thought I saw one in the classifieds. I would recommend a phone call to Arnold Schnitzer to see what he has available. I did not find Boston to be any cheaper than NYC. 9K is a tricky pricepoint, kind of in between. Things get a little more interesting at 15K but nothing that special until about 22K. Let us know what you find...

[pacetownsley]

"beat up Juzeks and frankenbasses"

That's it EXACTLY.

The mensure on the bass you guys are mentioning scares me. I'm not a big guy.

Maybe the answer is that my expectations are unrealistic and I should wait and save my money.

[Jason Sypher]

Mensure is a funny thing. I played a bass with 42 3/4" for years and years and never thought much about it after the first week of owning it. I think you should still check this bass out. I thought it was impressive. Plus, call Arnold....

[Eric Hochberg]

There's Kolstein Fendt FS in Chicago that is over 10 years old and played in by a great bassist. It's in the classifieds and I think it sounds really good. The "character" you speak of, and desire, seems to come by age and use, IME. Haven't played too many newer basses that have it (maybe none). For the price, sickpea's bass may be good, but that looong string length would not be worth dealing with for me. If you could have it shortened an inch, bridge up 1/2" and 1/2" false nut, maybe then. Basses with long string lengths are harder to sell. Definitely check out a LaScala. Biase and Bill Merchant are also worth calling.

[pacetownsley]

Thanks, Eric. I found the Fendt you mentioned. It's funny that it sounds just like I imagined this one sounding after it's been played in a little. I agree that it sounds good, I just need to decide if that's a sound I want.

Then I spent 20 minutes drooling over the Hawkes. Oh well.

[Steve Swan]

I have had several of the Fendts in under their alternate name, Baker. They are big and dark with a raw kind of quality. They are about raw power, not much subtlety.

[pnchad]

I went on this exact exploit about 5 yrs ago - NYC also (money in my pocket)

I also have three DBs that are pretty nice but I figured....

Gage's, Kolstein's some guy in Brooklyn, etc., etc. (actually the only one I connected with was a real old Venitian (sp?) which looked like crap - asymetrical pegbox, crude finish $30k)

same results - I played thirty or more basses/day for a long weekend - no holy grail

What kind of music do you play? Jazz?

old Juzeks/Wilfers can be wonderful but I think the real gems are already in the hands of players - setup & played for decades in a jazz environment - they're not finding many anymore

[Ed Fuqua]

I think Jason hit pretty well, it's an awkward price range. That's kind of the range of my bass and I would be hard pressed to find something to replace it for the same bread. But there's a LOT of stuff out there in that range, I'd say just keep playing as many of them as possible.
What kind of sound are you looking for? Me, I think I'd end up asking Ahnoldt for a carved Cleveland...

[Jason Sypher]

Yes. The more I think about it, the more I think of a carved Cleveland or a carved La Scala. I know you were looking for something older but I'll tell you that Arnolds basses are THE absolute best value for the money.

The New Standard Bass - La Scala Model
The New Standard Bass - Cleveland Model

Arnold does not list fully carved prices but his hybrids are near 6K. Fully carved are special order so you need to call him and talk. What you get for that money is a perfect instrument, made to your specific needs and taste. An excellent sounding instrument that plays beautifully.

I used to be a guy who only wanted to play 100 year old basses. But I have learned that there are some great instruments being made now that sound every bit as good as the old ones and in many cases, more even and playable. I think you need to go up and visit Arnold....

[Jeremy Allen]

Originally Posted by Jason Sypher

I think you need to go up and visit Arnold....

My suggestion too. Also, you may give Geoff Morrow at the Bass Garden a call (he's in Yonkers or White Plains, can't remember which). I got the most slammin' $9500 bass I've ever seen from him ("Schuster," German shop bass ca.1950).

I remember being told "NYC is where you sell basses, not where you buy them." That being said, the concentration of bassists selling their stuff privately is a great thing.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Jason Sypher

...Arnold does not list fully carved prices but his hybrids are near 6K. Fully carved are special order so you need to call him and talk. What you get for that money is a perfect instrument, made to your specific needs and taste. An excellent sounding instrument that plays beautifully.

I used to be a guy who only wanted to play 100 year old basses. But I have learned that there are some great instruments being made now that sound every bit as good as the old ones and in many cases, more even and playable. I think you need to go up and visit Arnold....

I agree that there really are some excellent new basses being made and that a bass need not be old to have fine character. As the OP knows very well, it's a matter of playing a bunch to find the one that speaks to you. I certainly would include a visit to Upton. They'll actually build you an instrument to your specific needs and taste from the ground up.

As long as we're including links, these represent huge bang for the buck, IMO:

Upton fully-carved Concert

Upton fully-carved Bostonian

As for what's "THE best value for the money," well,... that's in the ear and eye of the beholder. All of the suggestions given in this thread are worth being, and should be, considered. I won't presume to suggest which are right for the OP. I will say that I think it's best to cast a broad net.

[pacetownsley]

Thanks for the suggestions. Nice to know that others have had this experience.

I played the Kostein all day yesterday and it really is an impressive bass. If I was still a jobbing musician I'd buy it in a heartbeat. It's exactly what a lot of people expect from a bass, and it probably would be very successful in a Broadway musical or with a singer. It also feels robust. I suspect it would hold up well to the rigors of being hauled all over creation.

The bottom line is that I might need to wait, get some more dough together, stop whining and keep up the hard work of looking. And it really is hard work.

[pnchad]

enjoy the journey, right?

actually it is fun laying hands on all them pricey basses

eventually one will jump out

[Tejano Bass]

This one seems to pretty much meet your criteria: Wm. Lewis and Son "Bottesini" Fully Carved Roundback $9500 with the possible exception of location?

[DC Bass]

Elizabethtown PA is about three hours from NYC. Mike had a good bunch of basses in your stated price range the last time I was up there.

Welcome to ShankStrings.com

Joe

[jacochops]

Call Mike Hartery at Boston Bass Works. He always has some nice basses in that price range. Really a great guy.