Buying basses / bass parts direct from China

[draftsmann]

Several posters - myself included - have posted in recent weeks and months in connection with basses, part-built basses, and bass parts bought direct from factories or resellers in China.

Perhaps inevitably, some of the discussion threads have included a few regrettable comments from (to be generous) some insular-thinking posters, suggesting that the Chinese sell shoddy products or will rip you off; as well as a few comments mocking the sellers' use of English (I wonder whether these posters' Mandarin Chinese is up to speed?)

For those with an open mind, I thought I would mention that my dealings with several Chinese musical instrument sellers (not just for DB but also for guitars and guitar parts) have, for the most part, been entirely problem-free and satisfactory. It would, I think, be good if others who have bought from these sellers could also report their experiences (good and bad), in the hope that those who have held back from buying from the other side of the world will have the benefit of learning of others' experiences, and being able to make an informed decision.

For part built double bass and double bass parts, I have had very satisfactory deals from two Chinese eBay sellers, user names Musicstorema and Lankuishuang. Both these sellers regularly list large numbers of stringed instruments and parts.

A few comments about my experiences, in no particular order:

1. Sellers are invariably very helpful and courteous, but inevitably there is a language barrier. I strongly recommend asking for photos of exactly the item(s) you're buying, so that there is no confusion. Likewise, if you're asking for a part to be made, provide photos, diagrams etc to help the seller understand your requirements. In my experience, they are very accommodating, and will be happy to drill scrolls for machine heads, fit nuts/fingerboards, or not, as instructed - but you need to make sure the instructions are clear.

2. Some of the construction/finish techniques might not be what you'd expect or want. For example, epoxy adhesives are routinely used instead of hide glue. You might want to ask for parts to be delivered unglued. Also, it seems that they are fond of staining the streaky, dark brown ebony they use so that it is uniform black. If that is what you want, fine - but they will supply undyed if you ask for it.

3. In my experience, the Chinese like to "do a deal", and if you order several things they will quote a discounted price. If they don't volunteer a discount, ask for it! Conversely, if you're looking for the best possible price you may not end up with the best wood. Fine, if that's what you want - but if you want a higher grade, ask for it. They will almost certainly be able to supply and happy to quote a price.

4. I've found the shipping to be problem-free, and pretty quick and efficient. Everything I have bought from China (more than ten transactions now) has been well packaged, with plenty of bubblewrap, robust boxes, polystyrene balls, etc.

5. Sellers will invariably underdeclare export values on the accompanying paperwork - often even if not asked to. As a professional tax planner, while I dislike excessive or punitive tax I cannot (publicly) condone blatant evasion. Let me just say that there may be a discrepancy between your PayPal receipt (the sellers' favoured form of payment - good for us because of the buyer protection) and the docs accompanying your package. If you want the two to show the same figures, you need to tell your seller.

I hope these comments are helpful, and that a few others can add some reports of their own experiences with these sellers.

Adrian

[arnoldschnitzer]

Have you measured the moisture content of the wood in these basses?

[draftsmann]

It's good that a luthier of Arnold's standing has contributed.

No I haven't measured the moisture content of the parts I've bought. I live in an un-centrally-heated house in a warm humid country, and I appreciate that a Chinese bass might fare better here than in some other places.

I've seen anecdotal evidence suggesting that some luthiers are sourcing fingerboards and other parts from these sellers by the way.

Adrian

[TenorClef]

Just to add my 10 penneth worth to Adrian's comments, the double bass kit and bass parts i purchased from China via ebay are generally quite satisfactory. The luthier who is currently doing some finishing and setting up work on my CCB has made some very positive comments regarding the build quality of the bass i aquired from China.

Custom taxes are in my opnion a form of legal theft to aquire more money from the public. Its wrong. Thankfully Mr Ma ticked the 'sample' box so i did'nt have to pay heavy custom duties. Sadly Bob G from the USA did not, so i got an extra $30 added to the cost of my double bass strings. Thanks Bob!

[drurb]

Originally Posted by TenorClef

Thankfully Mr Ma ticked the 'sample' box so i did'nt have to pay heavy custom duties. Sadly Bob G from the USA did not, so i got an extra $30 added to the cost of my double bass strings. Thanks Bob!

Let me see if I understand. You are upset with Bob G because he didn't lie for you on the form? If the ethical reasoning does not sway you, then consider his liability as a businessman were he to routinely do that.

[draftsmann]

Originally Posted by drurb

Let me see if I understand. You are upset with Bob G because he didn't lie for you on the form? If the ethical reasoning does not sway you, then consider his liability as a businessman were he to routinely do that.

I'll make no comment about "ethical reasoning", but I agree it is quite understandable that a US based seller will not be prepared to underdeclare the value of goods being exported. I've bought from Bob several times, found him exceptionally good to deal with, and will do so again in the future. In fact, as I write I have a "white ticket" from Maltapost here telling me that I will have to waste the best part of a morning and drive to the other side of the island to collect an endpin Bob sent me.

Where there is a problem in the UK is that the local postal services charge proportionately very high "handling charges" for acting as the taxman's collecting agent. These charges, on a low-ticket item of, say, $40 or $50, can be much higher than the pittance of tax that is payable, and can make buying from overseas something of a gamble - the cost saving compared against buying locally can be abated significantly - and sometimes wiped out altogether - as a result of these charges.

Those who regularly import into the UK will be aware that when importing lower-ticket items, asking the seller to use certain postal services will practically guarantee that the delivery agent in the UK will sting them heavily; while alternative services use a different delivery agent, and will very often land on the doormat with no hassle (and having to take a couple of hours out to go to a collection office and queue can be a right pain in the backside) or tax/fees to pay.

In fact, now that I've started on this I will say something about the "ethics" of any tax where the cost of collection and general inconvenience all round exceeds the revenue gathered. It stinks.

Adrian

[TenorClef]

I'll second that Adrian. The current custom duty charge system stinks. I'm sure they could come up with some poor excuse to justify their day light robbery. My actual gripe is not against Bob G, i understand his situation, its with the current legalised theft system we have.

Oh, and to Adrian, apologies. Lets see if we can get this thread back on topic.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by TenorClef

My actual gripe is not against Bob G, i understand his situation, its with the current legalised theft system we have.

That's all I was after. Your "Thanks, Bob!" certainly implied otherwise. It sounds like you are justified to be annoyed with the tax/fee situation.

[MIKMAN]

Back to topic, i have imported many instruments from China, all of them from the violin family. The people i make busines with are excellent, with an ethos and a high moral attitude towards any client. In some cases, where i had some partly damaged goods due to mishandling of the package by the shipping agent, they immediately replaced the goods without any complaint. In each transaction i took what i paid for, without delays etc.

Dealing with China's manufacturers has been so far a perfect experience for me. Their instruments however have some drawbacks and in some cases some of my friends noticed "green" tonewoods, with the obvious results. Only one of my suppliers sends me aged tonewoods and he charges me accordingly, significantly higher than the others. Since i know it i pay without any complaint 'cause i get what i pay for.

Mike