Buying a new bass before Berklee?

Dr. Zoidberg · #1 06-03-2007, 11:26 PM

I currently have a plywood/laminated bass. It was my first bass and I desperately need a new one. Would you guys recommend buying a new bass before or after I head out to Boston for school? I'm attending Berklee College of Music this fall and I'd hate to buy a bass that ended up not being what I really need.

Ed Fuqua · #2 06-04-2007, 09:03 AM

Why exactly do you "desperately need a new one"? Did the neck fall off?

I went through Berklee, 5 years of being the house bassist at the local jazz clubs in my East Podunk town and my first few years in NYC (and first 3 recording sessions) on the same Kay plywood.

It ain't the bass, it's the player.

Paul Warburton · #3 06-04-2007, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

Why exactly do you "desperately need a new one"? Did the neck fall off?

I went through Berklee, 5 years of being the house bassist at the local jazz clubs in my East Podunk town and my first few years in NYC (and first 3 recording sessions) on the same Kay plywood.

It ain't the bass, it's the player.

#1....don'tcha just love us old guys?

Marc Piane · #4 06-04-2007, 10:08 AM

Ed is right on as usual. I had a german ply bass (distributed by Lewis and Sons) for college and my first 10 years as a pro in Chicago. I just got an upgrade about an year ago (Shen Willow) and I still use the ply for teaching (it lives at my studio) and most outdoor gigs.

I think the trick is in the setup. I've had guys play that ply and always are amazed at what it is. If the bass is solid and of reasonable quality I'd spend your money on having a good luthier set the bass up for you and save up for a while.

Paul Warburton · #5 06-04-2007, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fingers

Ed is right on as usual. I had a german ply bass (distributed by Lewis and Sons) for college and my first 10 years as a pro in Chicago. I just got an upgrade about an year ago (Shen Willow) and I still use the ply for teaching (it lives at my studio) and most outdoor gigs.

I think the trick is in the setup. I've had guys play that ply and always are amazed at what it is. If the bass is solid and of reasonable quality I'd spend your money on having a good luthier set the bass up for you and save up for a while.

I was just assuming your bass is set up correctly to give it every chance it can have.

Marc Piane · #6 06-04-2007, 10:35 AM

I've had several students come to me with basses that were supposedly "professionally setup" that played and sounded like poo (as I'm sure many of us have). I've seen nuts that were way to high, soundposts and an angle, bridges in the wrong place, craptastic strings, not to mention string height... the gambit. Usually these were from those huge companies that provided instruments for schools. They don't spend the time on each instrument and I'm sure they know that they are selling to teenagers. I know I knew nothing about setup when I was 17 or 18. I just knew the DB was big.

This might not be the good doctor's situation.

Steve Swan · #7 06-04-2007, 10:36 AM

I politely but firmly disagree. Dr. Zoidberg has already told us that his bass isn't measuring up to what he expects it to do in school. If he can budget another $1000-5000.00 above the resale value of his current bass, he can probably make a large to gigantic leap in performance.

The first question will be "What kind of musical voice am I looking for?" The huge extended family that he has here and his local bass experts can help him determine what this voice is. After that, he'll probably have a lifelong quest for the right tone and performance with several zigzags along the way.

Happy hunting!

Ed Fuqua · #8 06-04-2007, 10:45 AM

"Dr. Zoidberg has already told us that his bass isn't measuring up to what he expects it to do in school."
Not in the post I read, that post doesn't say ANYTHING about the performance of his current bass. That would sound more like "my bass just isn't measuring up to what I expect it to do in school" or some such.

"If he can budget another $1000-5000.00 above the resale value of his current bass, he can probably make a large to gigantic leap in performance."

The only way I've been able to do that is by practicing and playing. But I'll definitely start saving, if that's what it takes.

One of my favorite stories from Berklee is teacher asking everybody who practices an hour a day to raise their hands. pretty much every hand (but one guy) goes up. Teacher says how many practice two hours, keep your hands up. Then 3 etc etc etc. and the hands keep dropping. Finally when he gets to a time that all the hands drop, he turns to the guy that never raised his hand in the first place and says "How can you hope to keep up with that last guy, when you don't even practice as much as the rest of the guys in this room?" And the guy says " I don't have to practice, I read DOWNBEAT."

Marc Piane · #9 06-04-2007, 10:56 AM

LOL. Great story.

When I was a kid I was taking tennis lessons. I had a wooden racket but those oversized graphite were just starting to hit the market. I told my dad that I would never be good unless I got one of those rackets. My dad looked at me and said "You know, even if you had one of those rackets John McEnroe would still beat you". I was really upset at the time but the core of that lesson has always stuck with me.

Ed Fuqua · #10 06-04-2007, 11:02 AM

Look Steve, all kidding aside, that IS why I axed the question. That way, we all can know whether or not the Hopeful Ingenue has a Crapatino that has just come unglued EVERYWHERE or has a perfectly seviceable Kay/Englehardt/AmStand/Strunal?Chrissie/WHATEVER that may have some setup issues that can be resolved for much less that $1-5K.

damonsmith · #11 06-04-2007, 11:52 AM

I am going to disagree. Plywood basses do not function the same, do not sound the same and do not perform the same. A decent carved instrument can make a huge difference early on when a bassist needs all the help they can get.
Yes, I can pick up most basses and make music with them - after 13 (17 if I count my BG years) years of continous practice and study.

As Ed points out you make big leaps through practicing - a responsive carved instrument is more condusive to practicing, especially with the bow, which we all know improves overall technique.
Have people sounded great on plywood basses? yes.

However, It takes a lot of effort you could be putting into other areas. If you have the means don't underestimate the huge difference it can make.

Will it make you suddenly sound like the best player ever?
No, but it will mean that any deficiencies are in your technique and not your instrument, and then it is much easier to work them out.

As for the original question - look for a bass in the mid-west, you will likely get a better price than on the east coast.

CamMcIntyre · #12 06-04-2007, 12:16 PM

I agree with Ed & Fingers.

More info would be appreciated-mainly what kind of bass do you have now & what don't you like about it.

I played a beat to hell Kay throughout high school-strings seemed older than i am, action was very high, and it was a bit of a bear to play. My hands are quite strong now.

As far as getting a bass before going out to Boston or not-my questions would revolve around a few key aspects: Where are you located now? Do you have a teacher that could go with you to try out a bass locally? Do you have a tonal goal for the instrument? I stress this with the people i do setup work for [BG side]-having a goal sound in mind when you are buying and stringing instruments is important.

I will respectfully disagree with Damon Smith on the grounds that i believe a well setup ply bass can serve someone quite nicely. I'm assuming that at Berklee Dr. Zoidberg will be studying more jazz than classical. If he has the bread to get a fully carved or hybrid-i say go for it especially if you will be playing more classical than jazz.

I am more than happy with my ply bass at school. However, i play about 99% jazz.

damonsmith · #13 06-04-2007, 12:40 PM

A plywood bass is better than no bass, but not worth it if you have the means.
People who say otherwise generally either want you to bear their same sufferage ("I had to walk 35 miles to school in 10 feet of snow with worn out home-made shoes"), don't care about tone or have not made the upgrade themselves and are trying to justify it.

Ed Fuqua · #14 06-04-2007, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by damonsmith

People who say otherwise generally either want you to bear their same sufferage ("I had to walk 35 miles to school in 10 feet of snow with worn out home-made shoes"), don't care about tone or have not made the upgrade themselves and are trying to justify it.

Damon, that's ludicrous. And it's not the first time that you have projected the WHY of what YOUR thought processes would have to be in order to take a certain action onto people who are NOT you.

There are any number of reasons that someone may "desperately need" a "new" instrument, but simply playing a plywood bass AIN'T one of them. Good basses sound good, bad basses don't. That's the equation.

Sure, if you have the bread, buy a new bass. Hell, buy 20 of them. It doesn't ****ing MATTER if I can't buy 20 basses and am still playing a rubber band stuck in a cigar box. If you can, it's affects me in no way. If you can't, it affects me in no way.

But if you are a student, who is undertaking a significant expenditure by moving, financing your education, and incurring living expenses (which I infer from " I'd hate to buy a bass that ended up not being what I really need." )AND you have a perfectly usable instrument (or one that can be made so by a minimum investment) then spending money (that you "desperately need" to pay for school and pay for an apartment and pay to EAT fer Mithra's sake) on another instrument is not the best path to take.

Personally which are you suggesting applies to me?
A. suffer my pain
B. don't care about tone
C. don't play a nice bass

Ben Rolston · #15 06-04-2007, 01:47 PM

I can understand both sides, but I think we need more info from the OP before the argument gets heated (as it seems to be).

The other thing that I would add is that for the most part I think that we're (as bass players) the only ones worrying about ply/carved. As Ed said, If it sounds good, it is good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by damonsmith

People who say otherwise generally either want you to bear their same sufferage ("I had to walk 35 miles to school in 10 feet of snow with worn out home-made shoes"), don't care about tone or have not made the upgrade themselves and are trying to justify it.

I think that this is ridiculously insensitive, particularly towards people who do not have the means (read students for the most part). Honestly, I'm perfectly happy with my ply Cleveland (I realize that NS are kind of a special case though). I'm guessing that you had a bad experience with a ply bass, and as a result you're bitter.

There are also other reasons to get a ply too, durability for one.

Marc Piane · #16 06-04-2007, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

There are any number of reasons that someone may "desperately need" a "new" instrument, but simply playing a plywood bass AIN'T one of them. Good basses sound good, bad basses don't. That's the equation.

For this reason let's hear from the OP.

There are lot's of guys out there that play some awesome **** on plywood basses. Saying that "A plywood bass is better than no bass, but not worth it if you have the means" is pretty negative and not constructive IMO. All it is going to do is start an argument which doesn't help the OP.

Whenever I play my ply I NEVER think "man, I wish I was playing my carved bass". I can play the same stuff on both basses. They are set up the same way by the same guy. Does it sound the same as the carved one. Nope. But it is in no way harder to play.

Sam Sherry · #17 06-04-2007, 02:17 PM

Dagnab. For a while this was going along so sincere and respectful that I thought I was going to have to throw in a couple of "**** yous" just for ***** and grins. But then . . .

Fellas, it's just bits and bites. I doubt that Damon is embittered for life just because his Palatino ran off with his best friend or whatever.

As for you, Ed, your bass sucks. You would immediately improve in all important aspects if you sent it to me. I suck, so I'm ready for such suckitude or succotash or whatever.

Ed Fuqua · #18 06-04-2007, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Sherry

As for you, Ed, your bass sucks.

Alas, I wish it were the bass....

damonsmith · #19 06-04-2007, 04:50 PM

I had a well set up Englehardt to start with, it was ok, within a year I got my bass and I never looked back.
It is more that getting my carved instrument was such a POSITIVE experience.
It made a huge difference for me as it does for most people.
If a plywood bass would do it would be awesome - I'd play one and so would everyone else. There must be a reason most of us find a way to get one.
I am not a rich man by any means but the money I spent on my bass was best thing I ever did. I got it when I was 23 and dirt poor
I was sleeping outside overnight to buy concert tickets for a ticket broker for a living at the time, (not really as bad as it sounds, it paid ok and it was just sat. night).

Dr. Zoidberg · #20 06-04-2007, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

Why exactly do you "desperately need a new one"? Did the neck fall off?

I went through Berklee, 5 years of being the house bassist at the local jazz clubs in my East Podunk town and my first few years in NYC (and first 3 recording sessions) on the same Kay plywood.

It ain't the bass, it's the player.

Because my current one sounds like ****