carbon fibre endpins

Paul Warner · #1 06-06-2010, 09:48 AM

Health problems mean I have to lighten my bass. I thought I`d start by replacing my 10mm steel endpin with a carbon fibre tube. Has anyone tried this? Have you any advice?

crowsmengegus · #2 06-06-2010, 10:07 AM

I put a carbon fiber endpin on my bass and I'm pleased with the results. It cuts the weight a little and can produce a surprising change in the sound of your bass. I bought one of these from Gollihur. (I actually ended up with an extra one that I'd like to sell, so PM me if you are thinking of buying one.)

From your post it sounds like you just want to replace the shaft. Be aware that you usually cannot just put a carbon fiber shaft in a collar meant for a steel endpin since the way that the collar pinches the tube is different. The screw on the collar for your steel endpin may damage the carbon fiber. Steel shaft collars (yours included probably?) have a screw which sticks into the shaft to stop it, while the carbon fiber ones have a sort of pinching mechanism which applies even pressure around the shaft.

Paul Warburton · #3 06-06-2010, 10:24 AM

Here's but one of many threads and posts on CBEP's......

Thinking of changing to carbon fiber endpin

Dave Irwin · #4 06-09-2010, 04:27 PM

I just had a Gollihur endpin installed as well and am very happy with the sound.
I don't think it's going to lighten the bass that much.

Unless the collar is the same size as your current endpin, you'll have to have your bass either reamed or bushed <sp?>. Either way, it's not major for a Luth. I was charged $15 so I guess I got reamed but not badly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by crowsmengegus

I put a carbon fiber endpin on my bass and I'm pleased with the results. It cuts the weight a little and can produce a surprising change in the sound of your bass. I bought one of these from Gollihur. (I actually ended up with an extra one that I'd like to sell, so PM me if you are thinking of buying one.)

From your post it sounds like you just want to replace the shaft. Be aware that you usually cannot just put a carbon fiber shaft in a collar meant for a steel endpin since the way that the collar pinches the tube is different. The screw on the collar for your steel endpin may damage the carbon fiber. Steel shaft collars (yours included probably?) have a screw which sticks into the shaft to stop it, while the carbon fiber ones have a sort of pinching mechanism which applies even pressure around the shaft.

crowsmengegus · #5 06-09-2010, 04:51 PM

The New Harmony ones are pretty nice too, though a bit pricier. They are made in the US of A.

Greg Clinkingbeard · #6 06-09-2010, 07:56 PM

KC Strings is using an endpin on some basses that may be the same one Gollihur sells. Theirs comes with this stopper: http://www.kcstrings.com/shop/index....oduct_id=29828

I have these pins on both of my basses, largely due to the weight advantage. Their steel pins are nice but very heavy.

FWIW, the CF pins are hollow and one of them has an oak dowel inserted and glued in. I once saw one of the guys patiently sanding a dowel to get a perfect fit.
It adds stiffness but after swapping them I can tell little difference in sound. The dowel may be a slight improvement but it's not by much.

I have found that these CF pins work very well if tightened securely.

CPike · #7 06-09-2010, 08:44 PM

YMMV - I tried a CF endpin (replacing the standard 10mm Goetz steel rod) and it simply killed the sound. Swapped it back for the heavy steel and boom I was back in bidnez. You just never know till you try it...

Funny, now that I look back over the last 16 yrs or so that I've had this bass, a few standard tricks I've done to "open up" the sound did the exact opposite:

Replaced a very light rosewood tailpiece with a bigger, thicker and heavier ebony one = louder and darker sound.

Tried the latest low tension string fad (i.e. Corelli, Helicore, Obligato, Belcanto) = weakened sound - returned to the heavy high tension original Flexocor = big sound returned

Latest attempt being the new carbon fiber endpin = killed the sound.

Now, it's nice not to think about these tweaks and just concentrate on the music.

cdp

JtheJazzMan · #8 06-09-2010, 09:01 PM

Thats why Im always make non-permanent modifications to the bass, eg as opposed to the laborie endpin which Im mulling over. (Well, reversible at great cost)

pdbass · #9 06-09-2010, 10:46 PM

I just had a Gollihur CF endpin removed after having it on the bass for over a year. Arco immediately sounded better, much more resonant, but it took away all of that wonderful edge for jazz pizz. Seemed to lack some punch as well with CF, IMHO.

I did have some problems with that endpin that you might want to look out for when the weather changes! My endpin started coming out a bit and my luthier told me that the plastic (yes, plastic) that the CF rod is housed in wasn't experiencing the same type of shrinkage as the wood in cold weather. My endpin hole was bigger than the plastic (yes, plastic) endpin housing and my endpin crept about 1/2-inch out (of my bass that I keep on its side during the winter). Anyway, after I found out that except for the CF rod, the endpin was a lot of plastic (yes, plastic), it didn't take me long to get back to a ebony/stainless steel endpin--and it sounds way better on my bass.

As always, YMMV...

crowsmengegus · #10 06-09-2010, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdbass

.Anyway, after I found out that except for the CF rod, the endpin was a lot of plastic (yes, plastic), it didn't take me long to get back to a ebony/stainless steel endpin--and it sounds way better on my bass.

A lot of stuff is made of plastic. "Plastic" is a pretty generic term. The endpin plug isn't wood, but it's very hard composite type material (sort of like those Wittner tailpieces). It doesn't feel cheap or flimsy. ~~Anyway, if you want an ebony plug with CF shaft, check out the new harmony endpins.~~

EDIT: I double checked and the new harmony ones seem to have a composite plug too.

pdbass: I have a feeling that your shrinkage problem might have happened even with an ebony plug. Somebody with more experience than me is welcome to set me straight.

robobass · #11 06-10-2010, 01:37 AM

Alternatively you could replace the pin with Titanium. It's around half the weight of steel, and you won't need to change the socket. I haven't done sound tests, but I don't like the idea of a plastic socket. Also, the CF assemblies don't use a traditional thumb screw but instead an internal metal ring which is pulled by the screw. I installed one on a student bass but just couldn't keep it from slipping. The Gollihur assembly must work better though, since I haven't read of any complaints.

JtheJazzMan · #12 06-10-2010, 04:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robobass

internal metal ring which is pulled by the screw. I installed one on a student bass but just couldn't keep it from slipping.

I know those ones. I found on mine the metal of the ring (external thread) was considerably softer than the screw mechanism (internal thread).

The thread on the softer metal stripped off eventually.

Paul Warner · #13 06-10-2010, 07:18 AM

I was thinking of swapping the CF endpin within the ebony/brass socket/plug, rather than the whole unit. Tony Houska in the Contrabass Shoppe has sold me a CF pin/rod very cheaply to try out (don`t think they sold well for him and he has a number left in stock he`d like to be rid of!). I can then simply swap back the s/steel pin if needed.

MDEbass · #14 06-10-2010, 04:02 PM

If you need less weight from the bass, I would recomend a Rabbath style Laborie angled endpin. Make's your bass feel weightless.

pdbass · #15 06-10-2010, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crowsmengegus

A lot of stuff is made of plastic. "Plastic" is a pretty generic term. The endpin plug isn't wood, but it's very hard composite type material (sort of like those Wittner tailpieces). It doesn't feel cheap or flimsy.

pdbass: I have a feeling that your shrinkage problem might have happened even with an ebony plug..

I don't doubt that, but to my ears the 'composite type material' had an effect on the sound. Even without the rod extended, I can hear a difference with an ebony plug. Perhaps each material transfers vibrations differently...it's also probably something in my head preferring something wooden plugging my endpin socket rather than a composite...call me old-fashioned

robobass · #16 06-11-2010, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Warner

I was thinking of swapping the CF endpin within the ebony/brass socket/plug, rather than the whole unit. Tony Houska in the Contrabass Shoppe has sold me a CF pin/rod very cheaply to try out (don`t think they sold well for him and he has a number left in stock he`d like to be rid of!). I can then simply swap back the s/steel pin if needed.

You don't want to do that. Read post #2 again. The thumb screw in your socket will quickly destroy the CF pin. That's why the sockets sold with CF pins have the unusual clamping mechanism. Also, would it even fit? I didn't think any CF pins were that small (10mm).

MIKMAN · #17 06-11-2010, 04:54 AM

Upton sell a 10 mm carbon fiber edpin rod. Also KC Strings can make a carbon fiber rod in whatever dimension, which is adapted on a wooden leg. The whole assembly gives usually superb results.
Mike

Paul Warner · #18 06-11-2010, 01:12 PM

Well, we`ll see. The thumb scew in mine is rounded and I was going to super glue a rubber buffer, or somesuch, onto the end to prevent damage- hopefully.

robobass · #19 06-11-2010, 03:27 PM

That sounds good. I had a wooden endpin assembly once which had an aluminum spacer disc under the screw with a curved surface to match the diameter of the wood pin. You could remove the metal ring, drill out the hole in the socket to a larger diameter, and place a hard leather or plastic disc into the hole to buffer between the screw and the pin (Note, you can harden a piece of leather by soaking it in thinned hide glue, or Krazy glue, for that matter).

Also, I'm surprised that there are 10mm CF pins. CF is a material which resists stretching and compression, but not bending so much. That's why CF bicycle frames have much larger tube diameters than steel ones. I'm skeptical that a 10mm CF rod could have the stiffness and durability required to function as a double bass endpin. There's a lot of force on that thing!

Ozmoid · #20 06-11-2010, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robobass

... I installed one on a student bass but just couldn't keep it from slipping. The Gollihur assembly must work better though, since I haven't read of any complaints.

I have the Gollihur assembly, it is very secure.

I'm thinking of trying a drumstick instead of the CF pin to see what it does for the tone.