Cautionary tale - first DB.....

anwebb · #1 10-19-2010, 12:26 PM

Hello all
Thanks for all the many wonderful posts and advice on purchasing a first Bass - I have certainly learned ALOT! Now, if I had only read your board BEFORE buying my son his first DB (he's only 13 so I made the decisions), I would have a different story to tell. I live north of Tampa and there aren't many music stores in the area, there is one Mom and Pop shop that most Middle School and High School students go to for lessons, etc.
They have been in business for 25 years, so I felt I could trust them to steer me in the right direction.... As DB are large instruments I had not considered mail ordering one (which now I most certainly would) and I did want to help keep a small music store in business as well, even if the cost would be a bit higher.
I purchased an Englehardt Maestro M1 with a stand for $1589 (I know you are all cringing right now). Ok, I come home and realized I have overpaid, but oh well.... until I look up the Englehardt serial number and find that it is 15 years old!! Sold as brand new. Called up the music store and they said that OK, they had it for 15 years and never sold it and therefore it is technically new....sigh.. and NO returns, no refunds...
About 14 days had gone by when I found this information, via links provided on this forum which led me to Gollihurs website and their articles on Englehardts, after which I wrote directly to Englehardt to confirm the age of the instrument, sure enough it was a 15 yr old DB.
I felt awful about not having done my research up front, of not checking the serial number sooner, just overall a huge disappointment...
In comes Tom Link at Englehardt, who had read my "story" via email and heard from one of his employees that I had called to verify the information. He said if the store wouldn't make it right, he would....
He is sending a very grateful and happy 13 yr old an upgraded DB Englehardt Supreme and taking the 15 yr old Bass in return!
Talk about good customer service!!
So... a big thank you to Englehardt for making a newbies story have a happy ending....

drurb · #2 10-19-2010, 12:55 PM

Wow! A great and happy ending. You know, unless there have been upgrades and improvements to the EM-1 (I hope someone else will chime in with that info), then there would have been nothing wrong at all with a 15-year-old, never-played Engel in "new" condition. It's not as if there's any substantial deterioration that occurs over time. Some might even find it more desirable. Was there anything wrong with it functionally or cosmetically?

Still, it's for YOU, as the customer, to decide whether you want a 15-year-old "new" bass and not the store. IMO, they should have been right up front about it.

In any case, Tom went went beyond the call and made you and your son happy. That was sure a classy thing for him to have done. Thanks for sharing the story.

joshmickelson · #3 10-19-2010, 12:58 PM

That's great customer service. Thanks for posting it.

TroyK · #4 10-19-2010, 01:22 PM

Wow indeed! What a tremendous example of above and beyond customer service. Much respect, Englehardt!

And you know, it probably doesn't hurt them either. Someone will want that bass. Englehardts are perfectly reasonable student and even working instruments, good to know that there is an on-top-ofit US company behind them as well. And good for your son. Not only does he have a new instrument, but he learned a great lesson about business in the process.

As for the mom and pop store. I like supporting them too, but they've got to deserve your business because the world and your options are not what they once were. I still rent videos at our local store because the employees there are fantastic, part of the neighborhood and I enjoy going in there and seeing them. I'm proud that they actually out-lived Blockbuster. But, i wouldn't do it just because the were local and small if not.

Jake deVilliers · #5 10-19-2010, 06:05 PM

Nice story! Tom Link's one of the good guys, for sure. And I'd second the good Doc's point about there being nothing wrong with a new old bass.

I've been wishing I could afford one of Ideal Music's 25 year old Wilfers...

anwebb · #6 10-19-2010, 06:48 PM

When you are out shopping for a first instrument, with no knowledge, you feel that the music store will steer you in the right direction. I am sure if I had walked into Gollihurs we would have gone over several DB and talked about the pros and cons of each one, and then price-point, new or used - and then reached a decision. When purchasing "new" you expect it to be of a recent manufacture year (not 15 years old). So, the main problem was not having received full disclosure. Although the instrument is well taken care of and shows little wear, there is no way to know that it has never been sold or played. The music store also runs a small music school and it could have been an instrument used for lessons.
I also feel that Tom Link went above and beyond and I am very glad to have chosen to support an American made instrument.
It's a good ending and I am glad to be able to share the story...

swmmojo · #7 10-19-2010, 08:01 PM

Great story. Thanks for sharing. It's good to know good people are still doing business!

Matt Ides · #8 10-20-2010, 07:53 AM

Nothing wrong with new old stock for sure. Great story and resolution.

j.stemmler · #9 10-20-2010, 09:01 AM

talk about going above and beyond the call of duty. that kind of customer service is unheard of anymore.

drurb · #10 10-20-2010, 09:15 AM

No doubt, what Tom did was beyond the call and demonstrates superb customer service. I'd like to note that, in my experience and from what I've heard, virtually every one of the "reputable luthiers" who are discussed in these threads (some of whom post here) care deeply about customer service. They are individuals who go out of their way to make sure their customers are satisfied and that they build lasting relationships. IMO, they still provide the kind of customer service that we often lament is too rare in the marketplace. This is why I always advice newbies to buy from a real bass shop.

CrazyZeke · #11 10-20-2010, 01:34 PM

Congratulations to ANWEBB for the purchase of the Englehardt. All other things being equal, I've had good success with my EG-9. I purchased it last year from Jerry Fretwell's shop in VA and have had some additional set-up and tweeking work done by two different and nationally recognized double bass luthiers. Each noted that the sound and playability of my instrument exceed the standard for the model and line. In short, I've been told I've got a $4000+ sound from a $1600 unit. Sure, I'm looking at purchasing either a Shen or Upton hybrid next year, but I'll always be happy that I bought the Englehardt. I got a great tone for a good price! And, no, I don't intend to trade or sell it to finance future instruments.

Hope your son enjoys his new bass! : )

drurb · #12 10-20-2010, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyZeke

...I've been told I've got a $4000+ sound from a $1600 unit. Sure, I'm looking at purchasing either a Shen or Upton hybrid next year...

...but nice hybrids start at or below that same $4000 figure and it seems you consider them to be an improvement over what you've got. So, what's a $4000 sound?

robobass · #13 10-20-2010, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drurb

...but nice hybrids start at or below that same $4000 figure and it seems you consider them to be an improvement over what you've got. So, what's a $4000 sound?

It's about love. I wouldn't sell my 20 year old Saab for any price. Well it's easy to say this 'cause it ain't like people make offers

drurb · #14 10-21-2010, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robobass

It's about love. I wouldn't sell my 20 year old Saab for any price.

Yeah, I get that but you probably wouldn't claim that your Saab handles like a $60k sports coupe while saying that you're looking to buy one.

pathdoc2 · #15 10-21-2010, 07:32 AM

Cool story but there is absolutely nothing wrong with having a 15 yr old bass. Actually you pretty much know for sure all the joints are stable and the insturment is solid.

CrazyZeke · #16 10-21-2010, 02:02 PM

Quote:

...but nice hybrids start at or below that same $4000 figure and it seems you consider them to be an improvement over what you've got. So, what's a $4000 sound?

drurb,

My bass was set up two months ago by Michael Shank of Shank's Stings in Elizabethtown, PA. (Talk about a knowledgeable luthier!) He and others have noted that for a ply Englehardt, my bass has a very clear and nice tone. I got lucky with this one. He stated my instrument compares with some of more expensive basses available on the market today in the $4,000 MSRP price range. He in no way stated this was the value of the instrument. After some conversation, I asked if there was any mods I could do to get a better tone. Mike stated if I wanted better tone, along with many other benefits based on the construction of an more professional grade instrument, then a hybrid or carved bass was a possible solution.

Now, I know very well that as I progress on the URB, I would like an instrument with more depth, complexity of tone and projection - such as a hybrid - that cannot be produced by an Englehardt ply. I play mostly pizz. However, I really appreciate the bombproof construction and all-weather ability of my EG-9. Besides that, She's a true blonde! That's why I plan on keeping her...

I've been playing slab bass for cash since 1981 (URB for just over a year) and at this point in my life, the pursuit of tone and clarity becomes more important. I continue to push myself to become a better player thru learning, practice and listening to more experienced URB players. Hence, the G.A.S. for an additional instrument. It's nice to have instrument choices... ..

anwebb · #17 10-22-2010, 02:33 PM

Ian just had his first lesson today and the teacher said the DB is super, super used. So we now know it was not a "new" old DB, just straight up a used 15 year old Bass sold as new. So the instrument was most definitely misrepresented in two ways, it IS used and it is 15 years old.

SRT80 · #18 10-22-2010, 03:25 PM

If it's a super, super used bass, you would think you could tell it by just lookin' at it before you bought right? Does it have a lot of dings and dents or somethin'? What is it that makes it super used? Fingerboard rough? I'm new to these things to, so just wonderin'.

When are you gettin' your new one?

Steve

anwebb · #19 10-22-2010, 04:26 PM

The teacher said the strings were all worn out, there had been some kind of repairs done to it, a few small dings (which we had noticed). I had never shopped for a Bass before so I didn't know what to look for. The instructor has worked with basses for 40 years and said it was "well worn" nothing new about it.

The teacher also said that Englehardt really came through and saved the day, and he had never heard of such exemplary customer service in all his years! Ian is really looking forwards to his new Bass, supposed to be shipping next week